Lizardmen fleet rules WIP #Lizardman #PlayerCreated


Luis
 

Ha sorry, wanted to update the image and deleted the entire post instead :D. Here it is again with the right image:

Hello

While I'm waiting for PayPal Plus to get back to me I continued working on the rules and templates. (Online shop is ready for launch - just need to set up the payment option)
I have never played the game, so I need your help creating a balanced fleet and calculate the costs of everything.

Just for further explanation the "Jaw" of the Kroxigor Galley is the front part with the spikes. On attack it smashes down and forms a bridge for the boarding action. When ships want to break away they need to roll a 5/6 like when trying to get away from a Hulk.

What's your opinion? How much should each ship cost? Do you see any typos on the templates? Let me know if you have any questions. Looking forward to your thoughts and ideas!

Here are the current templates:


Thanks!
Luis


Dreadaxe
 
Edited


Dreadaxe
 
Edited

  1. Strangely, the turtle does not seem to attack the close-to-close.
  2. The Solar Engine is used for regeneration. I do not have the effects to Warhammer Battle but it's still potentially powerful even if it's only one ship and one zone.
  3. Kroxigor Galley has a good spur. Jaw much more powerful than the Khorne ship (but it's a higher class ship)
  4. With Kroxigor (why not idem Skaven Rat-ogre or TheSeaofClaws rules) in the Kroxigor Galley I see more this ship like a independant ship than squad.
  5. Kroxigor Galley is special as name. Galley is little ship of line of lesser class to MoW. The name Kroxigor Barge is more appropriate to my opinion.
  6. Giant Bowpipes should be the same rule as the Serpent's Sting Bolt Throwers. No ?
  7. Snakeship with move 9" it's good I think!
  8. Other bugs/questions with ship cards
  9. Important for french players to make these rules compatible with TheSeaofClaws rules
  10. The Solar Engine, is it just one hit? It's still something supposed to swing a comet on the battlefield or the equivalent of a laser cannon. Maybe it's a little fair. No ? D6 shooting like Tzeentch's Lightings?

  • 150 pts Snakeships squad
  • 300 pts Kroxigor Galley squad or 100 pts for Independant
  • 200 pts for Ancient Archelon
  • 75 pts for Terradon squadron

    --
    Dreadaxe


Ian323
 
Edited

I will give a more detailed reply at the weekend but have a few quick thoughts. You should however just go with what you are happy with, these are just some ideas I’m throwing out there.

 

  1. The Snakeship looks fast and with a movable sail should probably be able to catch the wind from the sides for the same speed. I think 10” would be best, something different, between 9” for other fast ships and the 12” (combined for the High Elves). One below the waterline hit looks right, looks fairly fragile.
  2. I think the Terradon should be two wounds which you have but close combat modifier is wrong (should be +2).
  3. I think the Ancient Archelon should have an attack of some kind, maybe a Head Ram attack, equating to one below waterline hit if in contact with an enemy ship, normal saving throw? Boarding actions could be against the crew like normal ships, or monster, will need some special rules, will look further at weekend.
  4. Giant Blowpipe attack, 9” range, normal saving throw at any distance. Bolts poisoned, if a hit is scored, even if no damage has been caused roll a D6, on a 6 a crew counter is lost.
  5. Solar engine attack, beam of pure sunlight. I personally think a fire attack of some kind would work well for this.
  6. Engine of the Gods will need special ruled, weekend
  7. Critical hits on the Ancient Archelon structure will require special rules, will look at this at the weekend and come up with some suggestions.


Luis
 

Thank you Ian and Dreadaxe! Those are wonderful ideas and comments. I totally forgot to give the Ancient Archelon an attack. I'm looking forward to your detailed replies during the weekend. Beginning of next week I will post a revised version.

I just called the customer support of PayPal plus (after waiting the usual half an hour in the line). Seems like they have a lot of requests coming in at the moment, but they will hopefully have my account unlocked mid next week. If nothing happens until Thursday I will switch to another payment solution.


Rhinopirate
 

Looking forward to this!

On Fri, 10 May 2019 at 10:47, Luis <guggenlu@...> wrote:
Thank you Ian and Dreadaxe! Those are wonderful ideas and comments. I totally forgot to give the Ancient Archelon an attack. I'm looking forward to your detailed replies during the weekend. Beginning of next week I will post a revised version.

I just called the customer support of PayPal plus (after waiting the usual half an hour in the line). Seems like they have a lot of requests coming in at the moment, but they will hopefully have my account unlocked mid next week. If nothing happens until Thursday I will switch to another payment solution.


sigmar1
 

Hello. Well done on the models and the initial fleet concept/ rules, especially by someone who's never played the game before!

Here are my thoughts on the specific ships:

Snakeship: As currently configured they cost 45 pts. per model, so 150 pts. per squadron. This is largely due to high movement and how burly their saves are. I would suggest making the following changes to bring them down closer to 25 pts. per model, so the squadron could be purchased for 75 pts. Yes, these changes would significantly reduce their effectiveness, but would also give the Lizard fleet twice as many of them and more squadrons.
 - What is the rationale behind the 'giant blow pipes'? What powers them and why do they 'count as' cannon? My suggestion: They are powered by a skink mage, have no saving throw modifier and cannot be used to repel boarders (ie. no grapeshot). These changes reduce their cost somewhat.
 - Instead of having Saurus/ Skink crew, define them as having only Skinks as crew. Skinks would have a -1 close combat modifier, but the Snakeship could have 2 Skinks (for a total +1 in combat assuming they still have both). This is similar to Skaven Slaves and Gnoblars I think. It allows them a bit more survivability and the ability to crew other ships even though they are no more effective in combat.

 - Reduce the saves to 5+ on locations 4 and 5, and 6+ on the sails. Remember 4+ is as good as it gets on small SOLs and is equivalent to dwarf armor.

Kroxigor Galley: They currently cost out at around 100 pts. per ship. That feels about right and I don't think they should be changed much. A couple of comments:
 - The sails box should reduce movement by 3" per damage, which is half the total. This is standard for MOW.
 - The Krox should be defined as providing a +1 (in addition to their crew counter) per combat, but ALSO be restricted from 'sailing' the ship. As such, perhaps 2 Saurus crew and 1 Krox (total +4 to combat). Additionally, add +1 to combat modifier if the Jaw causes damage prior to combat. (I also think a straight +5 combat on each one would be too good).
 - I would make these Independents. The cost doesn't change, but vastly increases the number of squadrons. Between 75 pt. Snakeship squadrons and 100 pt. Independent Krox Galleys, the Lizard fleet would function as a 'swarm' fleet with tons of squadrons to control the combat phase.

Ancient Archelon: I couldn't really cost this out as so many of the rules are not finalized. Based on assumptions is costs roughly 200 pts., but I think the rules should be buffed up to make it a 250 pt. behemoth. Here's how:
 - Unique close combat rule. Allow the Lizard admiral to chose to engage in close combat with EITHER the turtle (+6 with 6 wounds) or the crew (+6 with 5 Saurus crew and the Slann/ Admiral's +1). This way the opponent has to both hurt the turtle AND kill the crew to reduce combat effectiveness.
 - Turtle bite attack. One low-only attack at -1 save that causes two damage. Very strong. (I thought about making this a below the waterline attack, but that's ridiculously powerful).
 - Solar engine does d3 attack dice vs. one target, but 360 degree arc. No damage modifier, but damage causes fire.
 - Engine of the Gods heals one damaged location or crew on any ship within 12" on a 5+.
 - Perhaps reduce the Blowpipes to simple broadsides (instead of 180 degree arcs), but give them two.

These changes would result in a 'swarm' style fleet that closes using the Snakeships as screens. Once the engagement gets close, the Snakeships peel out of the way and continue to snipe the opponent while the Krox Galleys and the Archelon rampage amongst the enemy utilizing their oars and turtle movement to cause carnage in close combat.


Dreadaxe
 
Edited

For Engine of gods, the player have 3 [or more don't know] energies and choice to use these as he want : 
  • heal an area on 5+ to 12”
  • On shoot inflamed 
  • Time gap on 5+ to 12”. A ship or squad can be reactive.
--
Dreadaxe


Dreadaxe
 
Edited

I like those, nice mix of ideas from Wargalleys, Wolfships, and Death Fortresses, with a bit of Dwarf engineering thrown in! I am guessing points values of 150 for the Snakeship and Archelon and 300 for Kroxigor Galleys (Wolfships)?
I foward to you Luis.

--
Dreadaxe


Dreadaxe
 

On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 12:39 AM, sigmar1 wrote:
Ancient Archelon:
[…]
 - Unique close combat rule. Allow the Lizard admiral to chose to engage in close combat with EITHER the turtle (+6 with 6 wounds) or the crew (+6 with 5 Saurus crew and the Slann/ Admiral's +1). This way the opponent has to both hurt the turtle AND kill the crew to reduce combat effectiveness.
Same idea. I like.

 - Turtle bite attack. One low-only attack at -1 save that causes two damage. Very strong. (I thought about making this a below the waterline attack, but that's ridiculously powerful).
I like. No behind water line too.
 
--
Dreadaxe


Dreadaxe
 

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 11:38 PM, Ian323 wrote:
2. I think the Terradon should be two wounds which you have but close combat modifier is wrong (should be +2).
For Terradon, Template + Cost + Rules must be the same of TheSeaofClaws rules.
 
4. Giant Blowpipe attack, 9” range, normal saving throw at any distance. Bolts poisoned, if a hit is scored, even if no damage has been caused roll a D6, on a 6 a crew counter is lost.
For me us the Serpents Sting Bolt Throwers of TheSeaofClaws rules.
The Serpent’s Sting Bolt Throwers act like broadside batteries except they fire fore and aft ratherthan port and starboard. If it is destroyed the front AND rear bolt throwers have been destroyed.Serpent’s Sting Bolt Throwers have a range of 9” and use the normal range ruler provided with the game. They have no saving throw modifiers for range. Their target gets his standard saving throw atany distance. These do not fire grapeshot, and do not give bonuses to the dice roll when defendingin a boarding action as cannons do

--
Dreadaxe


Ian323
 
Edited

Ok I’ve put together some rules that I will use, just my interpretation mind, lots of other good ideas above and this is just my take.  Luis, of course has the final decision on what he wants to put out there.

One of the things I personally like about the game is the major differences in the fleets, each very much with their own flavour and tactics. Is the game ‘balanced’, well not really but personally that’s something that has never bothered me in the slightest. Are the Orcs weak, yes but when they win against Chaos Dwarfs (arguably one of the strongest) then it makes it all the more interesting in my mind. In any event point values can help balance it out a bit.  I only play with family so I don’t have to reach agreement with a large group of people, something that is frankly very difficult to do. Another thing which I believe is important is that the rules fit the models. I’m a strong proponent of What You See Is What You Get, and therefore I have tried to ensure that all the following rules fit the appearance of the models. I have not had time to play test unfortunately so once I have the models painted up and have played with them I may amend them a bit. Depending on time scales I will probably make this fleet my next hobby project.

I will add point costs at some point using the point’s calculator or can take suggestions.

Finally, before I get to the rules suggestions I’ve put together I just want to thank Luis again for creating these models. They really are a step ahead of anything designed before, even by GW, however they still ‘fit’ with the rest of the model range really well. A truly outstanding effort.

 

SNAKESHIP

5+ save on Giant Blowpipe, Hull and Below Waterline. 6+ Save on Sail (as suggested by Sigmar1).

10” movement with wind from rear or sides. If the Snakeship starts the turn facing into the wind then it may, instead of making one forward turn (which it can still opt to do), move backwards up to 5” in a straight line.  

One below the waterline hit (current card has an error in the text as highlighted by Dreadaxe).

Giant Blowpipe – May fire ahead only using the normal range ruler (9”), no saving throw modifier at any range. Cannot be used to repel boarders.  Each large dart fired by the blowpipes is poisoned, if a hit is scored, even if no damage has been caused roll a D6, on a roll of a 6 a crew counter is lost. (text should be added to template for Giant Blowpipe section blowpipe lost).

Crew – 2 skinks  (if 2 skink crew counters are present then +1 is added to the close combat roll, if only one is present no modifier is added).

 

KROXIGAR GALLEY

Independent ship as suggested by Dreadaxe and Sigmar1.

4+ save on all areas except sail which is 5+.

Movement as template, Oars 4” No Turns 6”, Sail 6” (wind behind 9”). Sails should reduce movement by 3" per damage, which is half the total (as identified by Sigmar1).

Ram attack – To make a ram, ship must move at least 3” under oars in a straight line towards its foe. If contact is made, foe must make a below the waterline save, if he fails roll a dice

1-2 1 point below waterline damage

3-4 2 points below waterline damage

5-6 3 points below waterline damage

Jaw Attack – If in contact to the front with another ship the Jaw may deploy. As the Jaw deploys it smashes through the opposing ship causing damage as detailed below. If both sections of the Jaw are undamaged then then it has a -2 saving modifier, if one section is damaged a saving throw modifier of -1 applies (if both sections of the jaw are damaged then obviously it is destroyed and cannot be deployed).

First roll a D6 to hit. Regardless of the ship being attacked a roll of 2+ is a hit. A roll of a 1 means the Jaw has misfired and failed to deploy. It may attempt deployment next turn. Damage is caused from top to bottom. To work this out first look at the opposing player’s ship card and work out how many ‘ship sections’ are at the top. For example a Khorne Bloodship has 5, a Khorne Ironshark 3, an Empire Greatship 3 a Dwarf Ironclad 4 and a Bretonnian Buccaneer 1. 

Next roll to see which section has been hit. For example for the Bloodship each section at the top would be allocated numbers 2 to 6 from front to back. Roll a D6 (misses, in this case 1’s, are re-rolled). A 4 is scored meaning that the Blood Cauldrons have been hit with a -2 modifier (assuming the Jaw is undamaged). Roll to save, if the save is failed the section is damaged or if already damaged a critical hit is caused. The Jaw then continues down to the next level, which is the Oar Deck on the Bloodship (this happens regardless of whether the save on the Blood Cauldrons was successful or not). Again this section (Oar Deck) must make a saving throw with a -2 modifier. The Jaw then come to a stop as it does not affect the Below Waterline area.

Let’s look at a second example, Khorne Ironshark. It has three sections at the top, Shark Head, Sail and Aftcastle. Again roll to hit on a 2+. Then roll to see where the ship has been hit, 1-2 Shark Head, 3-4 Sail and 5-6 Aftcastle. If either the Shark Head or Aftcastle are hit then those are the only ‘sections’ hit as there are none below either of those ‘sections’ on the ship card. If the sail is hit then the Oars underneath would also be hit.   

The Empire Greatship has three ‘sections’ at the top, let’s say the Main Mast is hit. The Main Mast has two sections below it, the Forecastle and Aftcastle. A roll would need to be made to see which of those sections was hit next, 1-3 Forecastle, 4-6 Aftcastle. If the Forecastle was hit next then it also has two sections below, Bows and Gun Deck and another roll as per above would need to be made.

Once the Jaw has deployed it is attached to the opposing ship which may not move until the Lizardmen Player decides to release it or the opposing player breaks free (at the start of his next move or on repelling boarders) on a roll of 5 or 6. 

The Jaw cannot make another attack if it starts a turn already deployed. The Lizrdmen player can release the jaw during the Kroxigar Galley’s turn or in the end phase.

Once the Jaw is deployed boarding actions can take place via the Jaw. The Jaw protects the Lizardmen crew so any ship getting boarded does not get any bonus for firing grapeshot (only applied to boarding actions to the front with the Jaw).  

Crew

2 Saurus (normal crew) and 1 Kroxigor. The Kroxigor should be defined as providing a +1 (in addition to their crew counter) per combat, as such, 2 Saurus crew and 1 Krox for a total +4 to combat (As suggested by Sigmar1).  Loss of crew should be random, for example if all three are remaining 1-4 Saurus crew is lost, 5-6 Krox crew lost.

 

SALAMANER PACK

As rules by Andrew Szemis (slightly altered to account for flyers with areas with a save and areas with no save).

Nominate a Flyer and roll the misfire dice. The number rolled is the number of inches the acid travels. If the Flyer is in range it is automatically hit and must make 3 saving throws. Roll to hit three times to see which sections are hit. Re roll misses.  1 wound for each failed saving throw. If a misfire is rolled the Salamander’s have gone out of control and rampage through the ship. Remove one crew counter.

 

LIZARDMAN TERRADON  

No save on both sections as per card, two wounds. Gets a +2 modifier in close combat as it has two wounds (card has error as identified by Dreadaxe).

Special Attack – Rock ram, as a Terradon fly’s past a ship it swings the rock it is carrying into it as it passes (like a wreaking ball). The Lizardmen Player can choose any section of the ship it is attacking above the waterline causing an automatic hit. A saving throw must be made, no modifier.  

 

Move 16” (its carrying a big rock!)

ANCIENT ARCHELON

Saves, Solar Engine 4+, Engine of the Gods 4+, Giant Blowpipe 4+, Stern 4+, Ancient Archelon 4+, Wound Track 4+. Make Giant Blowpipes hit on 2 and 3, Stern hit on 4 and Solar Engine 5, Engine of the Gods 6.

Move - monster 6” may turn freely. Each wound reduces movement by 1.

Critical hits are the same except wounds are caused instead of below waterline damage.

 

Ancient Archelon head ram attack

If in contact with an enemy ship the Archelon may make 1 head ram attack, one below the waterline hit, normal save.

 

Giant Blowpipes

May fire like a turret 180 degrees port or starboard using the normal range ruler (9”), no saving throw modifier at any range. Cannot be used to repel boarders.  Each large dart fired by the blowpipes is poisoned, if a hit is scored, even if no damage has been caused roll a D6, on a roll of a 6 a crew counter is lost. If a blowpipe fails its saving through the one destroyed must be the one closest to the attacking player (unless it is already destroyed). Critical hits do not occur on the Giant Blowpipes until both are destroyed.

 

Solar Engine

May make one beam of pure sunlight attack per turn using the normal range ruler (9”). If a hit is caused that area is set on fire, no saving throw. Now roll a D6, that many extra hits are caused to adjacent areas (normal saving throw), distribute randomly via D6 rolls. If either of the first two rolls (roll to hit and roll to establish number of extra hits) is a 1 then the Solar Engine cannot fire next turn as it recharges with fresh sunlight.  If all adjacent areas are set on fire then the next adjacent areas will be hit if there are hits still to distribute. No critical hits are caused. Areas already on fire cannot be hit again. If an area is hit that is already damaged, then it is set on fire. If all areas of the ship above the waterline are on fire then any remaining hits are used on a below waterline section which will be damaged if the save is failed. Attack wounds monsters as normal.

For example, Solar Engine fires at a Bretonian Galleon, aiming high and rolling a 5, hitting the Main Mast, one block is set on fire without a save (the Main Mast has two ‘blocks’ in its section, if both blocks within the section were already on fire then no further damage would be caused but the player would still roll a D6 for adjacent hits). The Lizardmen player now rolls a D6 and rolls a 6. These six hits are now distributed randomly to sections adjacent to the original section hit. Fore Mast allocated 2, Main Mast 3 (as it still has one block not on fire), Aft Mast 4, Forecastle 5 and Aftcastle 6. Misses are rerolled. Lizardmen rolls a 5, Forecastle hit, save is made by Bretonian Player. Lizadman rolls a 3, main mast hit again, saved failed, both blocks now on fire. Lizardman player rolls again, 2 is rolled, Fore Mast is hit, save is made, and so on until all hits are used up.

Now let’s look at an attack on an Ork Big Chukka. Roll to hit is a 4. Chukka is set on fire. Additional roll is a 4. Worky Bitz and Tread Wheel both hit. Worky Bitz save roll is successful. Tread Wheel fails saving throw and is set on fire. 2 hits still to distribute. Worky Bitz hit again and fails save. Last hit now allocated to Below Waterline as all areas of the ship are on fire. Save is failed and Bigchukka sinks.

The Solar Engine can suffer critical hits.

 

Engine of the Gods

The Engine of the Gods has three uses but can only use one per turn.  

Magic Power Boost – During the magic phase the Lizadmen Player can elect to use the Engine of the Gods to boost the Slann’s spell casting ability. Before any roll to cast a spell is made the player must declare that he is going to use the Engine of the Gods to boost the power. Roll a D3, the result is the modifier that the player can add to the cast roll. For example the Lizardman player wishes to cast a spell with a 9+ casting number (Slann are very powerful mages and have access to special Lizardmen spells). The player announces that they are using the Engine of the gods and roll a D3, rolling a 3. The player now need to roll a 6 on a D6 to successfully cast the spell.

Ray attack – The ray has a range of 9” and a 360” arc. It can only be aimed at one enemy ship or monster. Roll a D3, the result is the number of attacks that can be made to that ship or monster. Roll to hit as normal, no saving throw for range, critical hits can be caused.  

Repair – Any friendly ship within 15” including the Ancient Archelon. Roll a D3, Lizardmen player can make that many rolls to repair any section on a roll of 5+.  More than one ship can be repaired. Can be used in the battle phase.

 

Boarding Actions

Boarding actions take place against the crew as per normal. However if the opposing player attacks in a boarding action and wins the round of combat that player then elects to kill a Lizardmen crew counter or wound the Archelon. All other boarding action rules remain the same.

Crew – 5 Saurus and 1 Slann (total +6 with full crew).

Slann act as both Wizards and Generals however there can more than one Slann present if there are more than one Ancient Archelon in the fleet.  Only one Slann can cast a spell per turn. Any additional Slann boost the casting roll by 1 each. Any Slann present can be chosen to cast a spell.

 

Lizardmen Spells 

 

WIP.


Luis
 
Edited

Wow amazing, thank you Ian, Sigmar and Dreadaxe - that was exactly the information I was looking for! I will work tomorrow on the templates and will release a first set of rules incorporating your ideas.
Regarding the Lizardmen Spells. In Warhammer Fantasy the Lizardmen use High Magic - so the same magic like high elves. I think it would be a good choice as well for Man o'war, since the spells exist already and it stays consistent with the warhammer fantasy 5th edition.
A while ago I already printed a set of cards with an online service for roughly 15 Euros. They have the same size like the Chaos and Skaven spells. If you guys are interested I can share the print files with you. I made the Necromantic spells for preparation already:



Luis
 

more images


Dreadaxe
 

About magic. To my opinion Slann use Color or High magic.
About your cards :
  1. I like the use of the back of WFB5 Warhammer Magic cards
  2. Don't like the Chaos mark for all the magic
  3. Don't like the caesura


--
Dreadaxe


Ian323
 

Cards look great, I'd be interested in getting a set printed, which service did you use for the 15 Euro? 

I also think Lizardmen should have access to the colour magic as well as High Magic. 


Luis
 

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 11:48 AM, Ian323 wrote:
Saves, Solar Engine 4+, Engine of the Gods 4+, Giant Blowpipe 4+, Stern 4+, Ancient Archelon 4+, Wound Track 4+. Make Giant Blowpipes hit on 2 and 3, Stern hit on 4 and Solar Engine 5, Engine of the Gods 6.
Working on the templates right now. If 2-3 is Blowpipe and 4 is Stern. that would mean also that the Giant Archelon is also just hit on 5-6 instead of 4-6. That's very strong I isn't it?


Ian323
 
Edited

Good spot, I didn't factor that in. However, I actually think the Archelon is quite vulnerable, which I think it should be considering it has powerful weaponry. If all areas cause critical hits and there are only five 'blocks' (not including the archelon itself) then hits on already damaged blocks leading to critical hits (which in turn have a good chance of injuring the Archelon) will be quite common. For example an Empire Greatship his 13 'blocks' (although only 7 are low) meaning there is less chance of an already damaged 'block' being hit and thereby causing a critical. 

If you aim low on the Archelon then there is already a 1/3 chance of hitting the Archelon itself (on a 5 or 6), which in effect causes a below the waterline hit straight away if the save if failed. I think the vulnerability balances out the arguably powerful weaponry. 

Thoughts?


Luis
 

Ok I incorporated most of your ideas. Please see PDF attached. I changed the Engine of Gods to be less powerful for healing (Healing makes games unnecessary long in my opinion) and the Solar Engine to be more of a sniper weapon which hits easily (since it's a straight beam) and can shoot through ships to hit ships behind. This makes it a very tactical weapon and makes your positioning more important. What do you think?

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 06:00 AM, Dreadaxe wrote:
Kroxigor Galley is special as name. Galley is little ship of line of lesser class to MoW. The name Kroxigor Barge is more appropriate to my opinion.
Who agrees with Dreadaxe? "KROXIGOR GALLEON" "KROXIGOR SHIP" "KROXIGOR ARK" "KROXIGOR BARGE" - any suggestions/opinions? Originally I had Templeship - but then I saw Bill using this one already.

In order to keep it consistent with the Lizardmen rules that already exist - I thought it would be good to rename the Terradons, so there is no conflict with Bill Greenwald's templates. So technically you could combine both fleets. QUETZALADON (pronunciation Kwet-zal-don) Refering to Quetzalcoatlus - largest known bird. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatlus  Would this work with the Sea of Claws rules Dreadaxe?

Since the Giant Blowpipes also have a different name to Sting Bold Throwers they can easily coexist right? I love the idea of poison attacks of the blowpipes from Ian, so I would like to incorporate it.

Luis






Luis
 

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 03:55 PM, Dreadaxe wrote:
Don't like the Chaos mark for all the magic
The Symbol is used for Power in WFB5. That's why I put it there next to the Power costs of a spell. It reminds of Chaos that's true or is probably used for both, a bit confusing.

@Ian: I will share the print files with the rest of the templates once it's all done and also the printing instructions.

I'm based in Germany and used this website: https://www.printerstudio.de/

Colour and High Magic for the Slann sounds good to me as well!



Ian323
 

All looks really good to me. Looking forward to trying it out!

 

The new names do help if someone wanted to combine the fleets.

 

I have noticed a typo that I made in the text for the Archelon Blowpipe text, (in bold below).

 

May fire like a turret 180 degrees port or starboard using the normal range ruler (9”), no saving throw modifier at any range. Cannot be used to repel boarders.  Each large dart fired by the blowpipes is poisoned, if a hit is scored, even if no damage has been caused roll a D6, on a roll of a 6 a crew counter is lost. If a blowpipe fails its saving throw the one destroyed must be the one closest to the attacking player (unless it is already destroyed). Critical hits do not occur on the Giant Blowpipes until both are destroyed.


Dreadaxe
 
Edited

Speed review
https://kami.app/NWzpIagRKotO

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 07:21 PM, Luis wrote:
Who agrees with Dreadaxe? "KROXIGOR GALLEON" "KROXIGOR SHIP" "KROXIGOR ARK" "KROXIGOR BARGE" - any suggestions/opinions? Originally I had Templeship - but then I saw Bill using this one already.
Maybe more aztec

In order to keep it consistent with the Lizardmen rules that already exist - I thought it would be good to rename the Terradons, so there is no conflict with Bill Greenwald's templates. So technically you could combine both fleets. QUETZALADON (pronunciation Kwet-zal-don) Refering to Quetzalcoatlus - largest known bird. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatlus  Would this work with the Sea of Claws rules Dreadaxe?
For me it's the same miniatures. I don't understand why the rock is more accurate than Dwarf balllon bomb or Squig bombs.
But ok why not.


Since the Giant Blowpipes also have a different name to Sting Bold Throwers they can easily coexist right? I love the idea of poison attacks of the blowpipes from Ian, so I would like to incorporate it.
Ok.

--
Dreadaxe


 

I prefer "Kroxigor Barge"


Marell le Fou <marell_le_fou@...>
 
Edited

 
I'm for Kroxigor Barge. Or Battlebarge, maybe.
Marell
 
 

Le vendredi 17 mai 2019 à 11:00:56 UTC+11, Dreadaxe <benoit.dumeaux@...> a écrit :
 
Speed review
https://kami.app/NWzpIagRKotO

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 07:21 PM, Luis wrote:
Who agrees with Dreadaxe? "KROXIGOR GALLEON" "KROXIGOR SHIP" "KROXIGOR ARK" "KROXIGOR BARGE" - any suggestions/opinions? Originally I had Templeship - but then I saw Bill using this one already.
Maybe more aztec

In order to keep it consistent with the Lizardmen rules that already exist - I thought it would be good to rename the Terradons, so there is no conflict with Bill Greenwald's templates. So technically you could combine both fleets. QUETZALADON (pronunciation Kwet-zal-don) Refering to Quetzalcoatlus - largest known bird. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatlus  Would this work with the Sea of Claws rules Dreadaxe?
For me it's the same miniatures. I don't understand why the rock is more accurate than Dwarf balllon bomb or Squig bombs.
But ok why not.


Since the Giant Blowpipes also have a different name to Sting Bold Throwers they can easily coexist right? I love the idea of poison attacks of the blowpipes from Ian, so I would like to incorporate it.
Ok.

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Dreadaxe


Dreadaxe
 

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 02:18 AM, Marell le Fou wrote:
I'm for Kroxigor Barge. Or Battlebarge, maybe.
Why not Kroxigor Templebarge ;)


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Dreadaxe


Marell le Fou <marell_le_fou@...>
 
Edited

 
Kroxigor HeavyBattleTempleLizardBarge
 

Le vendredi 17 mai 2019 à 11:35:51 UTC+11, Dreadaxe <benoit.dumeaux@...> a écrit :
 
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 02:18 AM, Marell le Fou wrote:
I'm for Kroxigor Barge. Or Battlebarge, maybe.
Why not Kroxigor Templebarge ;)


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Dreadaxe


Dreadaxe
 
Edited

Foward
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1689059194662936/permalink/2349595805275935/?comment_id=2349799778588871&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D

Mick Ehrs wrote to Facebook Warhammer Man O War :
Really like most of the rules. Great work on templates.

Maybe only unlocking highmagic for second slann, High magic is a bit to powerfull in small point battles.
As compensation let the slann that uses regular magic draw an extra colleges of magic tile per level?

I think solar engine and engine of the gods could be one

With a bit more powerful shootig power. Like your line shooting maybe all boats under 12 inch line take d3 hits that causes fire. Its really good with monster move.

And make the defensiv power more powerfull so its a viable option. Maybe all boats within 9 on can make a repair/heal roll 5+ on their turn and get + 1 to save until ancient archelons next activation.

That would make it a good chiose to be defensive or offensive.
Some ideas
 
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Dreadaxe


Dreadaxe
 
Edited

XAW wrote:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/242425-traductioncr%C3%A9ation-flotte-hommes-l%C3%A9zards/&do=findComment&comment=3353128
In fact, I'm a little afraid of having two different rules for the crews of the two Lizardmen fleets, and what's more, I do not find that very logical.

The problem is that the first fleet created [Andrew Szemis and Bill Greenwald creation] and relies heavily on the capabilities of its crews, and they have no special rules in the Luis version.
Logical question about crew.

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Dreadaxe


Luis
 

XAW wrote:
http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?/topic/242425-traductioncr%C3%A9ation-flotte-hommes-l%C3%A9zards/&do=findComment&comment=3353128
In fact, I'm a little afraid of having two different rules for the crews of the two Lizardmen fleets, and what's more, I do not find that very logical.

The problem is that the first fleet created [Andrew Szemis and Bill Greenwald creation] and relies heavily on the capabilities of its crews, and they have no special rules in the Luis version.

Very good point. What do you suggest? Two separate rule sets (you can either play one or the other)? Different naming for the crew counters? The fleets have a total different play style. It will be hard to unite them.


 

Humans have Empire, Bretonnian, Pirate, and Norse fleets - I dont see a problem with 2 different Lizardman fleets.


Ian323
 

Personally I think they should be treated as two separate fleets, they are completely different (which I think is a good thing). Trying to mash them together is just not going to work.

Don't see any issue with this. 


Marell le Fou <marell_le_fou@...>
 

Same opinion for me. Let's build a second fleet with his own rules.
Marell

Le mercredi 22 mai 2019 à 07:08:14 UTC+11, Ian323 via Groups.Io <ian323183@...> a écrit :


Personally I think they should be treated as two separate fleets, they are completely different (which I think is a good thing). Trying to mash them together is just not going to work.

Don't see any issue with this. 


Luis
 

If we split the two and make two entirely different fleets, should we call the fleet:

Cold Ones or the Children of the Gods or keep Lizardmen? https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lizardmen

I also saw there is a city called Quetza https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Quetza
If we call the flying unit Quetzaldon, we could also call the Fleet just Quetza - just like "Kislev" Imperial

Just ideas not sure if it works, thoughts?


Ian323
 
Edited

Without a doubt I think you should keep Lizardmen. Its a simple case of someone saying that they are playing with your Lizardmen fleet or the Szemis/Greenwald one.


Jeff Moore
 

I'm on board (!) with this idea, too. Separate fleets.

Jeff


-----Original Message-----
From: Marell le Fou via Groups.Io <marell_le_fou@...>
To: TheSeaofClaws <TheSeaofClaws@groups.io>
Sent: Tue, May 21, 2019 4:25 pm
Subject: Re: [TheSeaofClaws] Lizardmen fleet rules WIP #Lizardman #PlayerCreated

Same opinion for me. Let's build a second fleet with his own rules.
Marell

Le mercredi 22 mai 2019 à 07:08:14 UTC+11, Ian323 via Groups.Io <ian323183@...> a écrit :


Personally I think they should be treated as two separate fleets, they are completely different (which I think is a good thing). Trying to mash them together is just not going to work.

Don't see any issue with this. 


Dreadaxe
 

For the french community to 2 fleets must be compatibility.

For example Kroxigor crew must be the same.

Answer on Kami - Luis commented on Lizardmen - Luis + counter_templates_selection_02.pdf


 
Dreadaxe
?
?
Guest User
I wanted to keep it with Greenwalds fleet compatible. But I think that doesn't quite work unfortunately. His MoW ship is called templeship.
Reply

Maybe write a paragraph explaining that the fleet can be played independently or as an addition to the old fleet or like allied.

 

 
Dreadaxe
No ship to Man O' war have this move. No?
?
Guest User
You prefer 9"? Just wanted to give them something unique, but 9" would be fine for me too. you decide! Ian liked 10" thats why I changed it.
Reply

 

Prefer 9". But maybe anothe rule could find for give more speed.

 

 
Dreadaxe
Same as Chaos template? "CREW 2 Skinks"
?
Guest User
Wanted to keep it to "crew" only, because if the rules change the templates are still valid and dont need to be updated.
Reply

 

Ok

 

 
Dreadaxe
Too strong to my opinion. Any critical hit cause one wound on Archelon?
?
Guest User
I thought since it's aiming high it doesn't cause crits, that's the way it works in man o war - right? but if you feel it's too strong then I change it. You decide!
Reply

 

Only mast zone don't do critical. Critical are special for the monster monted, to my opinion critical could be cause damage like Dark Elves. I don't know if in this condition 6 wounds is enough or not maybe 8 must be more appropriate.

 

 
Dreadaxe
Why not like vintage "Save 5 or 6"
 
Dreadaxe
Like red color
?
Guest User
just wanted to simplify it. would you prefer the vintage version?
Reply

 

You do vintage card style so I prefer the orthodoxy. Maybe Poker card like Daryle's cards or Universal Head's cards could be a idea.

 

 
Dreadaxe
Why not? Like Barge because be big like Kroxigor
?
Guest User
I asked a native english speaker and he said Barge sounds like a ship without sails to him. But seems like everyone likes it in the forum, so I might change it to barge.
Reply

 

Barge is ok for me even without the sails

 

 
Dreadaxe
What is the jaw bonus? What is the diffrence between Jaw destoyed
?
Guest User
In the rules I made two sections for the Jaw bonus and for the Jaw itself. If the upper section is destroyed it is only half as effective, but if the lower section is destroyed the entire jaw is destroyed.
 Reply 

 

Maybe be give a more meaningful name

 

 
Dreadaxe
If you lose a round of combat during a boarding action, the crew counter that was leading the attack is killed and removed from play. Decide which of the remaining crew counters is now leading the boarding action before carrying on.
 
Dreadaxe
Like Chaos crew counter or like Rat-Ogre
?
Guest User
ok changed
Reply

 

Excellent

 

 
Dreadaxe
Critrical hit cause 1 wound to monster?
?
Guest User
changed it to "Critical hits occur on the Giant Blowpipe location after both are destroyed."
 Reply 

 

Because Critical hit cause point behind water line and Archelon don't have, I propose the “Critical hits occur on the Giant Blowpipe location cause 1 wound counter on the Archelon's wound track.”

 

 
Dreadaxe
Automatic to me like Plague Towers of Plague Crusher. "Because the Plague Tower protects the Chaos Cultists onboard, any ship boarded by the crew of a Plaguecrusher does not get any bonus for firing grapeshot in defence."
?
Guest User
this is not restricted to the front of the ship, it works for all sides?
Reply

 

Yes and The Plague Tower is to the front of the ship. I see it like a addition to Plague Tower + Tzeentch Razor Claws Reward + Iron Clawz.

Citation

Jaw

Because the Jaw protects the lizarmen onboard, any ship boarded by the crew of a Kroxigor Ark does not get any bonus for firing grapeshot in defence.

Furthermore when this ship comes within 1" of an opponent, the Lizardmen player may nominate a hull or crew strike: A hull strike is a 1 dice attack with a -1 save, aimed at a random low location.

A crew strike strikes at the ship's sailors. Roll a dice; on a score of 6 an enemy crew counter is removed.

If the Jaw hit the ennemy is grabbed by Kroxigor Ark the enemy vessel is held in place till the Lizard player decides to release it. If the captured ship wants to break free the enemy player must roll a dice at the start of its next move, and on a roll of 5 or 6 it breaks loose. The captured ship can also attempt to break free if it managed to repel boarders in a boarding action. If the enemy player doesn't manage to roll 5 or 6 after winning a close combat the ship has failed to get rid of jaws. The Lizarmen can continue to attempt to board the enemy ship if they want.

 

 

 

 
Dreadaxe
Only Dwarf Slayers have this. Are you sure?
?
Guest User
Rat ogres can sail a ship? I think it would make sense to me if they can't sail.

Reply

 

Nio because you can have only one counter of Rat-Ogre and if a ship with Rat-ogres aboard must lose a crew counter, the Rat-ogres are removed before any other type of crew (Like Kroxigor crews to Addendum Bill Greenwald).



Dreadaxe
 

Keep Lizardmen or Lizarmen of [Choose appropriate City]



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Dreadaxe


Ian323
 
Edited

'Lizarmen of [Choose appropriate City]'

No need for a separate name, neither are 'official' so neither have 'ownership' of the name, regardless of which came first. 


Dreadaxe
 

OK with you Ian.
Other possibility is to use T9A lore... Saurian Ancients.

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Dreadaxe


Luis
 

Hey,

Sorry for the silence, work just kept me very busy recently.

So I kept it "Lizardmen" and also "Terradon" and like you guys suggested, just state which rules you are playing. They are two different fleets and rule sets.

I added new Charge counters to the Engine of Gods which are placed on the template - what do you think? If you damage the Engine of Gods two get removed. I also made it stronger again, because of the limitation and Micks feedback.

Maybe only unlocking highmagic for second slann, High magic is a bit to powerfull in small point battles.
As compensation let the slann that uses regular magic draw an extra colleges of magic tile per level?
Any other opinions about this? I have never played it so can't tell, but I would rather make the Slann more expensive to keep it simple.

Luis


Dreadaxe
 
Edited


Dreadaxe
 

Good work Luis!

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 10:30 AM, Luis wrote:
So I kept it "Lizardmen" and also "Terradon" and like you guys suggested, just state which rules you are playing. They are two different fleets and rule sets.
Ok. Think to a paragraph for explain this. This can be very courteous and class

I added new Charge counters to the Engine of Gods which are placed on the template - what do you think? If you damage the Engine of Gods two get removed. I also made it stronger again, because of the limitation and Micks feedback.
I prefer energy to use like Tzeentch ships (for do fire, move or regenerate) but why not. Engine of Gods can stop the time to AoS/WFB, exellent for stop ennemy ships.  

Maybe only unlocking highmagic for second slann, High magic is a bit to powerfull in small point battles.
As compensation let the slann that uses regular magic draw an extra colleges of magic tile per level?
Any other opinions about this? I have never played it so can't tell, but I would rather make the Slann more expensive to keep it simple.
To my opinion only one Slann like to other fleet (exepection Orc with Citadel Journal supplement). Like explain page 14 of the rulebook
SPELLS OF DIFFERENT COLLEGES
Each Warfleet has a cabal of Wizards, enabling spells of any colour to be cast throughout the battle. The dominant Wizard in the cabal is the only one you need worry about, and he is the Wizard represented by your Wizard card. Any reference made in the rules to 'your Wizard' are talking about the dominant Wizard.

If your dominant Wizard is lost during the battle, you may assume that the rest of the cabal is also destroyed.This of course means that if the dominant Wizard is lost you will be without magic for the rest of the game.

For game purposes, the college of the dominant Wizard is also considered to be the cabal's dominant college or colour. If your Wizard fails to cast a spell of his own college he may re-roll the dice and try again. This can be done once per turn. Likewise, when he is using a Magic Card of his own college colour to dispel an incoming spell and fails, he may re-roll the dice and attempt to dispel it a second time. He can do this once per turn too.

Review
https://kami.app/GNtSYlAPcTqR


 
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Dreadaxe


Ian323
 

All looks really good Luis, I've yet to order the ships from Shapeways but will do this month. Will post pictures when they arrive. 


Dreadaxe
 

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 01:45 AM, Dreadaxe wrote:
Good work Luis!

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 10:30 AM, Luis wrote:
So I kept it "Lizardmen" and also "Terradon" and like you guys suggested, just state which rules you are playing. They are two different fleets and rule sets.
Ok. Think to a paragraph for explain this. This can be very courteous and class

I added new Charge counters to the Engine of Gods which are placed on the template - what do you think? If you damage the Engine of Gods two get removed. I also made it stronger again, because of the limitation and Micks feedback.
I prefer energy to use like Tzeentch ships (for do fire, move or regenerate) but why not. Engine of Gods can stop the time to AoS/WFB, exellent for stop ennemy ships.  

Maybe only unlocking highmagic for second slann, High magic is a bit to powerfull in small point battles.
As compensation let the slann that uses regular magic draw an extra colleges of magic tile per level?
Any other opinions about this? I have never played it so can't tell, but I would rather make the Slann more expensive to keep it simple.
To my opinion only one Slann like to other fleet (exepection Orc with Citadel Journal supplement). Like explain page 14 of the rulebook
SPELLS OF DIFFERENT COLLEGES
Each Warfleet has a cabal of Wizards, enabling spells of any colour to be cast throughout the battle. The dominant Wizard in the cabal is the only one you need worry about, and he is the Wizard represented by your Wizard card. Any reference made in the rules to 'your Wizard' are talking about the dominant Wizard.

If your dominant Wizard is lost during the battle, you may assume that the rest of the cabal is also destroyed.This of course means that if the dominant Wizard is lost you will be without magic for the rest of the game.

For game purposes, the college of the dominant Wizard is also considered to be the cabal's dominant college or colour. If your Wizard fails to cast a spell of his own college he may re-roll the dice and try again. This can be done once per turn. Likewise, when he is using a Magic Card of his own college colour to dispel an incoming spell and fails, he may re-roll the dice and attempt to dispel it a second time. He can do this once per turn too.

Review
https://kami.app/GNtSYlAPcTqR

 Opinion about my reviews of Luis beta rules?

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Dreadaxe