Date   

Re: [Nova-Roma] A question for Maximuse -Maximus statement

qfabiusmaxmi@...
 

In a message dated 11/15/02 12:07:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
diana@gensmoravia.org writes:


So why are you running for Consul Maximus? Since you have stated yourself
that the position of Consul isn't what interests you, a bit of a
clarification is in order I think.

And by "vacuum", what do you mean? Your statement insinuates that you are
running only to make sure that someone who can not be intimidated by you
doesn't win.

Diana Moravia Aventina
Salve Diana Moravia et al.

<Sigh> To clarify. Yes, I wanted to run for Censor. Yes, I was asked by
Pompia Cornelia to run for Consul instead, since we had worked closely
together this year. Yes, I'm the conservative choice, since I believe the
people should have a choice, in the tradition of Republic.
I do not favor quick and hasty Gens reform. Why cause disruption if it is
not needed? This is not a life or death matter. There will be Gens reform,
we cannot keep the current system. But as Minucius says and I hope I'm not
misquoting him, we need imput from the people before we write a lex, because
we cannot keep revisiting this problem.
Yes, you are correct Gemius, I want to protect everybody's rights, from the
lowly Filiusfamilias to the Paterfamilias during this reform. Because that
is fair. And Labienus is correct in that the Religio is strengthened by the
reform.
I spoke to Labienus during the weeks we were writing a proposal, he knows my
concerns and I his.
First don't we have take the census? Is not that the one most important
factor in our lives right now in the Republic? Are you not curious to know
how many citizens are active and inactive? Through that we can eliminate
inactive PFs, something that was the number one concern of all the people who
wrote me, and which also seems the vocal concern on this list.
We must set up the courts. We must bind the Nova Roma citizens to the cause.
They must respect all magistrates, they must want to pay their dues. We
need all these things to work if we are to carry out our Sacred mission to
activate the nation of Rome, physically. We have proven it will work
virtually, now we must get it to work physically.
I keep quoting Virgilus. "Rome was not built in a Day." I repeat, we must
move forward, but at a sober pace.
I appreciate your vote.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

L. Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@...>
 

Well I can certainly see problems with this lex.

First of all the 10% minimum quota for Patricians is
absurdly high. By the Late Republic there were roughly
55 Patricain families in a city with a population of
between 600,000 and 1,000,000.

I Prefer my Proposed maxium of 5% of the population
with no new Patrician families beyond that figure, and
truefully even that 5% is far too high to be historic.

This section is by far the worst part.

"1. Each physically separate household led by a
Citizen of legal age shall be considered a separate
and independent familia of 'sui iuris' status. Each
Citizen of Nova Roma must be a member (or leader) of a
familia.

The Roman family was what is now called an extended
family. It didn't just consist of two adults and some
children. It was multi-generational. If you define a
modern household as a family this law has the same
effect as the present system. It creates legal
roadblocks for those who wish to set up a true Roman
family.

This is just replacing one ahistoric model that
citizens are locked into with another ahistoric model
that citizens are locked into.

--- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <hucke@cynico.net>
wrote:
Salve Luci Sicini,

DRUSUS: It's fairly easy to suport the secrective
Cassius/Labienus proposal since no one outside the
Senate has the slightest idea exactly what is in
that
proposal.
Actually, it was posted here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/2599

For all any of us know the Junior Consul
vetoed it over a clause that the Paterfamilis of
Cornelia have a steak driven through his heart.
;o)

That part was eliminated in committee.

Vale, Octavius.

--
Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Consul of Nova Roma
Candidate for Censor 2756:
http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor/


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
 

Salve, L. Sicini.

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> escribi:

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es> wrote:
SNIP

The core problem is that we currently have a gens system that
creates many problems (like delays in citizenship applications, for
example) and that is not even historically accurate. The objective
is to reform our system while keeping its current virtues. I
sincerely believe that a system closer to the Roman historical
model (like the one proposed in the Cassius/Labienus proposal)
would attain that goal. And, since we are here to bring back "the
best of Rome", I think that such a solution would be extremely
appropriate.
DRUSUS: It's fairly easy to suport the secrective Cassius/Labienus
proposal since no one outside the Senate has the slightest idea
exactly what is in that proposal. For all any of us know the Junior
Consul vetoed it over a clause that the Paterfamilis of Cornelia have
a steak driven through his heart. ;o)

Simply stating support for a proposal that few of us have seen tells
the voters nothing about what you are actualy supporting.
I have found a message on this very same list where you will be able to
read Cassius Iulianus's initial proposal:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/2599

Labienus suggested changes to that proposal were in the line of
allowing those willing to remain under a certain paterfamilias to do
so, and to implement a historically based adoption system. I am sorry,
but I haven't found Labienus's proposal outside of the Senate mailing
list. I will keep looking, just in case.

I Favor a system where each Gens has the option of continuing with
the present ahistoric system or of moving to a more historic model.
Then you favour the Cassius/Labienus proposal :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

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Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

L. Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@...>
 

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es> wrote:
Salve, L. Sicini.

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
escribi:

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es>
wrote:
SNIP

The core problem is that we currently have a
gens system that
creates many problems (like delays in
citizenship applications, for
example) and that is not even historically
accurate. The objective
is to reform our system while keeping its
current virtues. I
sincerely believe that a system closer to the
Roman historical
model (like the one proposed in the
Cassius/Labienus proposal)
would attain that goal. And, since we are here
to bring back "the
best of Rome", I think that such a solution
would be extremely
appropriate.
DRUSUS: It's fairly easy to suport the secrective
Cassius/Labienus
proposal since no one outside the Senate has the
slightest idea
exactly what is in that proposal. For all any of
us know the Junior
Consul vetoed it over a clause that the
Paterfamilis of Cornelia have
a steak driven through his heart. ;o)

Simply stating support for a proposal that few of
us have seen tells
the voters nothing about what you are actualy
supporting.

I have found a message on this very same list where
you will be able to
read Cassius Iulianus's initial proposal:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/2599

Labienus suggested changes to that proposal were in
the line of
allowing those willing to remain under a certain
paterfamilias to do
so, and to implement a historically based adoption
system. I am sorry,
but I haven't found Labienus's proposal outside of
the Senate mailing
list. I will keep looking, just in case.

I Favor a system where each Gens has the option of
continuing with
the present ahistoric system or of moving to a
more historic model.

Then you favour the Cassius/Labienus proposal :-).
Now that I've seen it I do not.
It locks us into using a modern household as a family
and that is ahistoric. The Roman family was what is
refered to as an extended family in modern terms. It
was multi-generational. I Have no qualms with those
who are willing to settle for a less than accurate
household model for thier family structure, but those
who wish to have true multigenrational families
shouldn't have any legal roadblocks placed in thier
way.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

__________________________________________________
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Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sometimes the simple solutions are the best

Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
 

Salve, consul Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> escribi:
Avete Tribune,

Certainly you can review this. Here is how I would conduct the
Census, if I was still Censor.

First you subtract those citizens who pay the tax.
Second you subtract those citizens who voted in the December Election
(this election).
Third you subtract those Paters who responded to the yearly
registration.
Fourth you subtract those citizens who came in during the calender
year.

This takes out about 600 people (maybe more considering the new
citizen numbers). But for safety sake we will say 600 people are
removed, leaving 1000 left to be "counted."

First thing I would do would be to set up a page on the website and
advertise on the ML for all citizens to go there and verify their
citizenship. (this complies with Section E of the Lex Cornelia.).

Second thing I would do is the bulk email. To all citizens who have
failed to respond to the Census request. Give that about a or two
week(s) to give people enough time to respond. Then filter out the
names who responded and do a second bulk email. With the mass
mailing that went out with our new voter codes we have already gotten
at least 3 resignations.
Ah, I forgot about this one, you're right.

Third, I would request the assistance of all active Paterfamili in
having them get in touch with their gens members. Since most
Paterfamili should have some contact information on their gens
members, this would be a convinent way to save money.
I know that you are a very active paterfamilias, Sulla; but many
paterfamilias are not so active. In fact, we have over 100 inactive
paterfamilias that will probably not answer the call.

Besides, many gentes have members in several continents. It would cost
less to NR, but do you really think that many paterfamilias would use
their own money to pay for intercontinental phone calls? Yes, yes; I
know you would... but how many more?

I would hope that by utilizing these measures most of our citizens
will be reached. However, it is very likely given the numbers that
not all of them will be contacted. Then we can get into the bulk
surface mail. And as a last resort phone calls. Again, if the
cost of the census exceeds the budget the Senate has already approved
a reimbursement procedure.

I freely recognize that this first census will be the most expensive
and the worst considering we have never done a Census before.
However, once the first Census is completed all future census counts
will be alot easier because we will have experience to build on and
most likely a smaller number of citizens.
I think that it would be much simpler to include provincial
organizations (for whom phone calls will be local) into the formula.
*That* would be a good way to cut down costs.

Personally, I only see Nova Roma having maybe 700-800 citizens total.
I expect to see the number on the Album Civium drop dramatically
once the Census is properly done.
In this we (unfortunately) agree. We have to be realistic, after all.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
 

Salve, Druse.

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> escribi:
Well I can certainly see problems with this lex.

First of all the 10% minimum quota for Patricians is
absurdly high. By the Late Republic there were roughly
55 Patricain families in a city with a population of
between 600,000 and 1,000,000.
I didn't like that part either. I think that it was reduced in the
Labienian version, but I can't be sure.

I Prefer my Proposed maxium of 5% of the population
with no new Patrician families beyond that figure, and
truefully even that 5% is far too high to be historic.
I prefer that maximum too.

This section is by far the worst part.

"1. Each physically separate household led by a Citizen of legal age
shall be considered a separate and independent familia of 'sui iuris'
status. Each Citizen of Nova Roma must be a member (or leader) of a
familia.

The Roman family was what is now called an extended family. It didn't
just consist of two adults and some children. It was multi-
generational. If you define a modern household as a family this law
has the same effect as the present system. It creates legal
roadblocks for those who wish to set up a true Roman family.
I agree. Extended families (grandparents, brothers, even cousins and
uncles) should be taken into account.

This is just replacing one ahistoric model that citizens are locked
into with another ahistoric model that citizens are locked into.
That's pretty strong, don't you think?
You have just found *two* small flaws (two flaws that I, for instance,
would like to correct as well) into a pretty long proposal.

Boy, do you have high standards... I guess that you always vote "NO" to
legislative proposals :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Re: My questions: Thanks

Julilla Sempronia Magna <curatrix@...>
 

--- In Nova-Roma@y..., Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@y...> wrote:

<snipped>

My further thanks to all those who expressed views on
the general issue of gens reform. It is an issue in
which I have a small interest. I considered applying
for citizenship about a year ago, and, conceiving a
desire to be a Sempronius (I'm a fan of C. Sempronius
Gracchus and of the earlier Sempronius who wrote a
commentary on constitutional practice), I tried to
contact the paterfamilias. Talking to various people,
I heard that he was AWOL, and that as the gens was
closed, there was nothing anyone could do to help me
join it. I was disheartened and lost interest. It is
true that I renewed my interest a few months ago and
have re-applied for a different gens, but this could
very nearly not have happened, and I just wonder how
many potential citizens have been lost for this
reason.

Well now THIS news breaks my heart, for I have admired your
thoughtful and intelligent speech, and it would have indeed been a
great honour to call you "frater," feeling as I do about the brothers
Gracchi (Caius is likewise my favourite of the two famous reformers).

I know you have an application in the works, but is there any
possible way you would consider contacting the praetors for admission
into gens Sempronia by citing the Edictum Praetoricum --
Praetores May Act on Behalf of Absent Patresfamiliae?

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/edicts/praetor-2002-08-07.html

*sigh* It would be SO good to have company!

---
cura ut valeas,
@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| www.villaivlilla.com/
@____@ Daily Life in Ancient Rome
|||| Rogatrix, MMDCCLV
Scriba, Nova Roma Curator Araneae
Curatrix Araneae,
America Boreoccidentalis
http://ambor.cynico.net


Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sometimes the simple solutions are the best

L. Cornelius Sulla <alexious@...>
 

Avete Omnes,

See, the Lex Cornelia de Censo is definately written from a Censor's point of view. :) But let me just comment a bit on Tribune Salix's responses a bit.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sometimes the simple solutions are the best


Salve, consul Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net> escribió:
> Avete Tribune,
>
> Certainly you can review this. Here is how I would conduct the
> Census, if I was still Censor.
>
> First you subtract those citizens who pay the tax.
> Second you subtract those citizens who voted in the December Election
> (this election).
> Third you subtract those Paters who responded to the yearly
> registration.
> Fourth you subtract those citizens who came in during the calender
> year.
>
> This takes out about 600 people (maybe more considering the new
> citizen numbers). But for safety sake we will say 600 people are
> removed, leaving 1000 left to be "counted."
>
> First thing I would do would be to set up a page on the website and
> advertise on the ML for all citizens to go there and verify their
> citizenship. (this complies with Section E of the Lex Cornelia.).
>
> Second thing I would do is the bulk email. To all citizens who have
> failed to respond to the Census request. Give that about a or two
> week(s) to give people enough time to respond. Then filter out the
> names who responded and do a second bulk email. With the mass
> mailing that went out with our new voter codes we have already gotten
> at least 3 resignations.

Ah, I forgot about this one, you're right.
Sulla: I know. You are not the only one to make this error. Which is precisely why I wrote my response based on if I was still Censor. It gives a nice structure, IMHO.


> Third, I would request the assistance of all active Paterfamili in
> having them get in touch with their gens members. Since most
> Paterfamili should have some contact information on their gens
> members, this would be a convinent way to save money.

I know that you are a very active paterfamilias, Sulla; but many
paterfamilias are not so active. In fact, we have over 100 inactive
paterfamilias that will probably not answer the call.

Sulla: Well, in this I am not certain. Our Censors claim to have completed the Gens registration (based on an email where Censor Caius Flavius closed quite a few gentes). So, we should assume those who have not been closed are active. They should respond.

Besides, many gentes have members in several continents. It would cost
less to NR, but do you really think that many paterfamilias would use
their own money to pay for intercontinental phone calls? Yes, yes; I
know you would... but how many more?

Sulla: Tribune not all gentes have 93 members of their gens. Our average gens has 2-3 members iirc. If they cannot make 2-3 phone calls to their Gens members then I think we have a deeper problem in Nova Roma. I am more than willing to call every single member of the Gens Cornelia if I must (and I know I have about 35 inactive Cornelians so far).

> I would hope that by utilizing these measures most of our citizens
> will be reached. However, it is very likely given the numbers that
> not all of them will be contacted. Then we can get into the bulk
> surface mail. And as a last resort phone calls. Again, if the
> cost of the census exceeds the budget the Senate has already approved
> a reimbursement procedure.
>
> I freely recognize that this first census will be the most expensive
> and the worst considering we have never done a Census before.
> However, once the first Census is completed all future census counts
> will be alot easier because we will have experience to build on and
> most likely a smaller number of citizens.

I think that it would be much simpler to include provincial
organizations (for whom phone calls will be local) into the formula.
*That* would be a good way to cut down costs.

Sulla: If the Paters and Maters took accountability for their gentes the costs for NR would be even less. And it would be doing a great thing, building up Gens relationships. Which is the foundation of Nova Roma.

> Personally, I only see Nova Roma having maybe 700-800 citizens total.
> I expect to see the number on the Album Civium drop dramatically
> once the Census is properly done.

In this we (unfortunately) agree. We have to be realistic, after all.

Sulla: I understand.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul


Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
 

Salve, Druse.

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> escribi:

<<snipped>>

Then you favour the Cassius/Labienus proposal :-).
Now that I've seen it I do not.
It locks us into using a modern household as a family
and that is ahistoric. The Roman family was what is
refered to as an extended family in modern terms. It
was multi-generational. I Have no qualms with those
who are willing to settle for a less than accurate
household model for thier family structure, but those
who wish to have true multigenrational families
shouldn't have any legal roadblocks placed in thier
way.
Let me see if I have understood it correctly.

I am sure that this is more a wording problem than anything else, and
that the writers of this proposal would surely accept a different
wording, now that you have pointed that mistake out. But, even then,
you are rejecting a whole proposal because it is historically
innacurate. Because of a small wording problem, you prefer to have a
*completely* inaccurate system than this one.

I am beginning to have doubts about your good will and impartiality
towards this issue, Druse :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

L. Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@...>
 

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es> wrote:
SNIP

I am beginning to have doubts about your good will
and impartiality
towards this issue, Druse :-).
Oh, I freely admit to being partial towards
multigenrational families because of my macronational
family history.

In 1929 My Great Grandfater lost $600,000 in the stock
market crash. My Grandfater took on the burden of
suporting his parents and his brothers and sisters,
but continued to recognize his fater as the head of
the family.

When My Great Grandfater died in 1953, my Grandfather
had earned so much respect that he was recognized as
the head of the family and his brothers and sisters
continued to come to him for advice.

My Father was the oldest son, and when My Grandfater
died in 1980 he had the respect of the rest of the
family and was the person everyone came to for advice,
His brothers and his sister and thier children as well
myself and my siblings.

Since I am the oldest son,When My Father died last
month I found myself with the task of holding a
multi-genrational family intact, and I intend to live
up to this obligation.

When you ask me to support a law that fails to
recognize a multi-genrational family you are asking me
to recognize a law that would break up my
Macronational Family if it were a Nova Roman family.
That is asking too much.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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The election

Lucius Equitius <vergil@...>
 

Salvete, Sodalis Quirites

I hope this finds everyone in good health with the time and means to enjoy it.

As the voting to elect next years magistrates are about to commence I've seen a number of people give their choices for various offices. Since I've been around for a little while and I've seen the comings and goings of Nova Roma since the founding, I thought that some citizens may find my opinions of use. Who knows they may even agree with me ;-)

Anyway, the most exciting thing to me is that we actually have some debates over issues!
That and we have many worthy candidates, both newer and older citizens. This will be the best election yet!

I've already made a statement for total support of Marcus Octavius as candidate for Censor.
Even though no one took up the challenge I urge everyone to vote for him in spite of this.
He deserves our backing despite my poor ability to translate my feelings and thoughts.

In the matter of Consul, I offer what little support I have to Titus Labienus Fortunatus. He has been a pillar of virtue since I've known him. He is ethical to a fault (I know that doesn't make sense as I write it, but I think he knows what I mean ;-) He is hard working and dependable. Beholding to no 'faction', he will do what is best for the Republic regardless of his personal desire. He has my utmost trust.

For Praetor, all candidates are worthy, but Marcus Arminus has shown himself to be a most worthy example of Romanitas. He has been of great assistance to the Censores and a tireless worker doing many tasks behind the scenes, if you look around the website you will be amazed at the things he has done. For starters check out the Provincia links and the histories, very impressive. Gnaeus Salix Astur has been a very active Tribune and has shown that he also has the best interests of all the people in mind. They would make a formidable duo.

Both candidates, Gnaeus Equitius Marinus et Franciscus Apulus Caesar for Aedilis Curulis deserve our support, they have done a tremendous amount of work to promote Nova Roma and have real talent for the office they seek.

I don't think it would be appropriate for me to endorse any of the candidates for Tribune Plebis, but I do have thoughts on the people I know. Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Propraetor Argentina has worked hard to promote Nova Roma despite the horrific conditions that plague his country presently. Marcus Marcius Rex may is one of the most knowledgeable citizens we have in matters of law and he is also someone whom can be trusted to do what is best for the republic before personal considerations. Gaius Popillius Laenas has been Quaestor for this year and he did a tremendous job assisting the Consul implementing the tax levy. He handled the monies in a professional manner and is someone I hope to meet in person soon. Diana Moravia Aventina is someone I've worked with as Censor that has displayed the kind of character that is indicative of a real leader, I look forward seeing her earn a prominent place in Nova Roma and hopefully I will be able to meet all these people in person one day.

Well, since the other offices are unopposed I hope we will give the candidates our support and vote them all in well with our votes. I'm really pleased that so many people have chosen to serve,especially newer citizens, despite our differences and the sometimes heated discussions. Optimam Fortunam Omnibus.

Mars nos protegas!

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


***VENATIONES*** 9th day!!!!!

Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...>
 

WELCOME BACK TO THE VENATIONES!!!!
THE MUSARUM NETWORK IS AGAIN WITH YOUTO FOLLOW THESE
GREAT COMBATS!!!!!!!!!

Hey! We have an old friend in the Circus Flaminius! A
winner of past edition!

Tiberius Annaeus Otho, which after his wonderful
wedding, now tries to cover his name with glory for
the second time! ;)

Tiberius actually owns 5,833 Sestertii. No bad!

Well! I see his fighter! He just entered the circus!
TINGIS!!!!!!!!!
This fighter comes from Mauretania (West of North
Africa). He trained up to now in the Ludus
Matutinus... and we can notice the results!!!!!!!!
He is a strength of 46!!!!!! And a resistance of
39!!!!!!!!!!
In his curriculum vitae he already has a victim: a
ravenous bruin!

Who will be his next foe?

..............

.............

A HIPPOPOTAMUS!!!!!!!!!!

Hippo has been recently caught in Aegyptus. Hippo has
30 strength pointa and 33 resistance points. Good luck
Hippo! Tingis is really not easy to defeat!!!

Hippo smiles. Hippo is really nice.

Tingis approaches Hippo.
Hippo doesn't seems to understand what's happening.

Hippo just looks for affection and love.
(Hey, who brought us this pet?)

BUT TINGIS IS PITILESS AND STABS HIPPO IN THE BACK!!!

Tingis still has 39 resistance points. Hippo only 17!

Hippo is a bit resentful. Hippo scolds Tingis and
bites him.

So TINGIS STABS HIPPO AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

OUCH!

Tingis 38, Hippo 3!

Hippo goes angry. Hippo walks toward the crowd and ask
the Praetor for justice, according to the Lex
Iudiciaria.

The Praetor aswers that Hippo must wait fot the Lex to
by voted by the Comitia. This will happen soon.

Hippo expresses his concerns on this matter. Hippo
isn't completely sure that Tingis will be willing to
wait until that day.

Hippo is right.

Tingis approaches Hippo and stabs him for the third
time.

Just before dying, Hippo makes the Praetor notice that
Hippo was right: Tingis hasn't been patient at all.
Hippo curls up.

Tingis has 37 resistance points. Hippo... hasn't.

TINGIS VICTOR!!!!
He wins another combat!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey! It means that Tiberius will get other
Sestertii... :)

Congratulations!

=========================
Well, while waiting for the circus to be prepared for
next combat, I read a new press release about
Latina's pilgrimage.
--------------------------------------
LATINA'S ODYSSEY<<<
Latina and the lion passed the night in front of the
Oracle's home. The Sea Monster tasted delicious.

In the morning the Oracle came back. The Oracle had
been in the city to do the shopping and to buy several
gadgets to give as a present to those who come to
consult it.
The Oracle offered a coffee to Latina and the lion.
They kindly refused.

After a nice conversation Latina posed her question to
the Oracle, and the Oracle gave its response.
Latina was also presented with "the Oracle's watch", a
nice gadget. You ask "What's the time?" and it answers
"It depends".

Latina thanked the wise Oracle and started walking
toward her ship in order to come back to Nova Roma.

We will know the Oracle's response as she arrives.
-------------------------------

And we hope she's arriving soon! :)

==================================
AVETE OMNES!!!!!!!!

We are here to follow the last "normal" fighting. In
fact after this combat we will have the Venatio Magna,
3 men against 10 crocodiles!!!!!!

But let's see what will our next fighter do!

Ladies and Gentlemen, directly from Cilicia (South of
Turkey),
after strongly training in the Ludus Matutinus...
a very clever man.
strength: 28
resistance: 24

He's LONCHUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His Dominus is a new entry of the Nova Roma
Venationes, Titus Arminius Genialis...

Is this citizen trying to emulate his "relative"
Lucius Arminius Faustus, that great winner?
Hey! This relationship is a good point for Genialis!

On the other hand... somebody could remember a certain
Arminius.... not a nice name for those who know a bit
about Teutoburg....

Anyway, that's not the case! Our Gens Arminia is one
of the noblest in Nova Roma! ;)

I know that Lonchus and Aquinca (Lucius Arminius
Faustus' fighter) were planning to train together to
improve their abilities. Unfortunately they had no
time.

Well, her it is. The foe!

Someone could still rememeber this Numidian animal...
Do you rememeber that fighter in past edition, Mageri?
He was killed by this huge.....
Rhinoceros!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Strength.......... 49!!!!!!!!!!
Resistance.............. 37!!!!!!!!!

Hmm..... not a nice situation.....

Lonchus brandishes his pilum. He's ready for the
combat.

The Rhino slowly approaches. It seems to be rather
calm.

Lonchus doesn't want to wast his time: he takes aim
and.... HE THROWS HIS PILUM!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUT THE RHINOCEROS SUDDENDLY START RUNNING TOWARD
LONCHUS!!!!!!!

OUR FIGHTER IS COMPLETELY OUT OF BALANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And in the very moment where the pilum hits the
ground, the horn of the rhinoceros transfixes Lonchus'
chest.

The crowd lets out a yell.

Lonchus is astonished.

The beast remains motionless, while the fighter tries
to seize its head...

... but he loses heart, and closes his eyes.

The rhinoceros rouses itself. The body falls on the
ground.

This is really not the kind of combats we would like
to see.
Perhaps Lonchus was still inexperienced to fight in
the circus. We also must consider that his enemy was
*really* strong.

An another fighter will have to face this beast during
next edition of the Venationes...

Cives of Nova Roma: the Rhinoceros still has 37
resistance points.
Lonchus... is dead.

Genialis, don't worry. You have been wise. You still
owns 4,500 Sestertii, the right amount of Sestertii
you need to buy another fighter and introduce him/her
into a gymnasium. You will have the opportunity to do
that just before next venationes!

As to next combats......... THE VENATIO MAGNA
APPROACHES!!!!!!!!!!
WE STRONGLY INVITE YOU TO FOLLOW THIS GREAT
COMBAT!!!!!!!!!

VELETE OPTIME!!!!!!

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Reminder: LVDI PLEBEI *** BUILD NOVA ROMA!!! (and right URL)

Manius Constantinus Serapio <mcserapio@...>
 

AVETE OMNES!!!!!!!!!!

One more game for the Ludi Plebei!!!!!!!!!!
It is really easy! ;)

Every citizen can send us a "brick" to build a
symbolical temple faade.

The "brick" is a word (e.g. a virtue), a date (e.g.
the date of a battle) or a name (e.g. a Roman general
or the place of a battle) wich you deem important to
Nova Roma and Her culture.

The "bricks" can be sent to consulromanus@yahoo.com
during the Ludi Plebei until the temple faade is
completed. remember to put "BRICK" in the subject
line!

The temple faade will be built at
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/build.html

Every citizen can only send one "brick".

This building, as you can understand, is very
important to Nova Roma. It has a high symbolical
meaning. That is why we strongly suggest you to send
your brick at "Build Nova Roma"!

OPTIME VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
***Candidate for Quaestor***
Scriba Aedilis Plebis (Ti.Apo.Cicatrix)
-------------------------------
VISIT MY WEBSITE
http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html

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Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Sometimes the simple solutions are the best

AthanasiosofSpfd@...
 

In a message dated 11/15/2002 8:04:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
salixastur@yahoo.es writes:

I don't know which is the actual amount held in the aerarium, but I
believe that it is not much over 2,000 US$. That means that a cheap
census following our current rules would cost about a 35% of our
budget. A 35%! Which nation can afford a census at such a price?
In the United States a person can get calling plans were they can get
unlimited long distance. It would be cheaper to do a census via e-mail and
phone calls than through Snail Mail.

But as I have stated before....a census should include the Provincial
Magistrates. They are the ones who know their Provinces...

G. Modius Athanasius


Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@...>
 

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Druse.

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com> escribi:

<<snipped>>

When you ask me to support a law that fails to recognize a multi-
genrational family you are asking me to recognize a law that would
break up my Macronational Family if it were a Nova Roman family.
That is asking too much.
I think I have expressed myself incorrectly :-).
I completely agree with your point of view towards extended families. I
also believe that both Cassius and Labienus agree with your point of
view as well (that is my personal belief; I could be wrong. But they
are both very reasonable gentlemen, so I really do think that they
agree with you there).

You have spotted a wrong wording in this proposal. Thank you very much!
If I am allowed to take a part in the writing of the next version of
this proposal, I would like to include the extended family concept you
have been asking for, and I would like to revise the concept of a
minimum number of patrician familiae.

As you know, no proposal can be absolutely perfect. It is through
constructive criticism that we can improve a certain proposal.

My question is: would you support a proposal that included those
provisions? Do you agree with the basic intent of this proposal?

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Tribunus Plebis
Triumvir Academiae Thules
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules
Lictor Curiatus.

_______________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Nueva versin: Webcam, voz, y mucho ms Gratis!
Descrgalo ya desde http://messenger.yahoo.es


Research Journal

Sp. Postumius Tubertus <postumius@...>
 

Sp. Postumius Tubertus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Salvete,

Getting back to the research journal, I finally got around to putting things together (momentarily; things will surely change). So, that said, a new Yahoo! group has been created for the Nova Roma Research Journal (name used now for lack of a better word). If you haven't already subscribed, I urge and encourage all interested parties, citizens and non-citizens alike, to subscribe over at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Research/ or NR_Research-subscribe@yahoogroups.com.

Optime Valete,

Spurius Postumius Tubertus
Retiarius Lacuum Magnorum
Scriba Praetoris
Scriba Curatoris Araneae
Discipolus Anno Tertio Linguae Latinae
Civis Lacuum Magnorum Provinciae
Civis Patriae Novae Romae, Optima Maxima

"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" -- Q. Horati Flacci


Ludi Plebeii - end of photo contest

Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix <consulromanus@...>
 

Salvete!

The photo contest has ended! Many thanks to everyone
who participated!

The last photo was an interior view of the Theatre at
Orange (France).

Our last winner: Gallus Solaris Alexander

Others who have submitted a correct answer:
Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus
Jullila Sempronia Magna
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Sextus Apollonius Scipio


********************

And here are the final results of the photo contest;
who is our greatest monument-specialist?

WINNER: Hadrianus Rutilius Bardulus - 21 points

2. Sextus Apollonius Scipio - 20
3. Julilla Sempronia Magna - 20
4. Tiberius Galerius Paulinus - 11
5. Caius Tarquitius Saturninus - 9
6. Spurius Postumius Tubertus - 6
7. Titus Labienus Fortunatus - 5
8. Tiberius Annaeus Otho - 5
9. Quintus Quinctilius Varus Galili - 5
10. Gallus Solaris Alexander - 3
11. Diana Moravia Aventina - 3
12. Titus Licinius Crassus - 2
13. Marcus Marcius Rex - 2
14. Caius Basilicatus Agricola - 2
15. Alexander Tarquitius Sulla - 2
16. Aeternia - 2


How are these points calculated:
- two points for each correct answer.
- one extra point for each of our random winners.
- three extra points for those who participated every
time.
- Our winner also received two bonus points for
guessing our one very difficult photo correct (the
statue of C. Iulius Caesar in Belgium)


Congratulations!!!

Thank you all for participating!

Valete bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
----------
Aedilis Plebis
Quintilianus for Consul! http://www.insulaumbra.com/cfq_for_consul/index.html
Octavius for Censor! http://romanrepublic.org/octavius/censor
Serapio for Quaestor! http://www.geocities.com/mcserapio/Serapio_for_Quaestor.html
Scipio for Quaestor! http://www.fr-novaroma.com/Quaestorship

__________________________________________________
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Re: [Nova-Roma] For Gens Reform, many Doubts

L. Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@...>
 

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@yahoo.es> wrote:
Salvete Quirites; et salve, Druse.

--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@yahoo.com>
escribi:

<<snipped>>

When you ask me to support a law that fails to
recognize a multi-
genrational family you are asking me to recognize
a law that would
break up my Macronational Family if it were a Nova
Roman family.
That is asking too much.
I think I have expressed myself incorrectly :-).
I completely agree with your point of view towards
extended families. I
also believe that both Cassius and Labienus agree
with your point of
view as well (that is my personal belief; I could be
wrong. But they
are both very reasonable gentlemen, so I really do
think that they
agree with you there).

You have spotted a wrong wording in this proposal.
Thank you very much!
If I am allowed to take a part in the writing of the
next version of
this proposal, I would like to include the extended
family concept you
have been asking for, and I would like to revise the
concept of a
minimum number of patrician familiae.

As you know, no proposal can be absolutely perfect.
It is through
constructive criticism that we can improve a certain
proposal.

My question is: would you support a proposal that
included those
provisions? Do you agree with the basic intent of
this proposal?
I Agree with the basic idea of Gens reform and have
supported it since I became a Roman citizen. Since
this involves an admendment to the Constitution I
favor being very careful to insure that we get it
right the first time. If it is just a lex then mostly
right or a move in the right direction is reason to
support it. The standards are higher when you are
amending the Constitution, then it has to be right the
first time.

I Call on the Senate to appoint a group of citizens to
form a working group that will write a recomendation,
and that this group consist of equal numbers of
citizens with modernist and reconstructionist views. I
Am willing to serve on this group if asked.

Gens reform has the potential to be the most
disruptive action that this nation has ever
undertaken. I do NOT want to see a repeat of the
Gender episode that saw over a year of fighting,
resignations, and mistrust between the groups that
lasts to this day. I Want to get this right the first
time instead of having a series of fights over the
Gens and the Family's place in Nova Roma.


=====
L. Sicinius Drusus

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.)
Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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Temple to Antinous found.

quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@...>
 

Salve,

Archeologists have discovered ruins of a temple near Rome that is
dedicated to the youthful slave historians believe was a homosexual
lover to the Roman emperor Hadrian.

The temple to Antinous dates to 134 A.D., four years after he died at
the age of 21.

The temple was discovered during excavations on Hadrian's villa,
about 20 miles east of Rome. Archeologists reportedly found planters
and fountains for interior gardens and marble fragments with
hieroglyphics.

More information at: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/021114/80/deno8.html


Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: My questions: Thanks

Jamie Johnston <jamiekjohnston@...>
 

Julilla Sempronia Magna wrote:

I know you have an application in the works, but is
there any
possible way you would consider contacting the
praetors for admission
into gens Sempronia by citing the Edictum
Praetoricum --
Praetores May Act on Behalf of Absent
Patresfamiliae?
If I had known about this edict at the time of my
first attempt, I would certainly have tried it. I
think this is worth drawing to the attention of those
who say, 'but there are measures in place to deal with
such problems' - the measures may have been there, but
they were not clear and accessible, and one surely
can't expect every potential applicant to trawl
through the entire tabularium to find a way round the
problem.

But on a personal note, thank you very much for your
concern and encouragement; I'm honoured by your
invitation. I'm afraid, however, that I must decline,
as my application is now concluded, awaiting only the
end of the election period; I shall contact you
off-list to elaborate on the ins and outs of my
application process, which would be of little interest
to most list members.

With thanks,

Jamie

=====


www.strategikon.org


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