Date   

Introducing myself

A. Sempronius Capito
 

Salvete omnes!
I just submitted my citizenship application and am waiting for the censor's reply with baited breath.
Valete!
Capito


Re: Introducing myself

C. Pompeius Marcellus
 

Salve Capito,
And welcome. Looking forward to seeing you in chat .
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus

-----------------------------------------

From: "Xanthe"
To: TheForumRomanum@groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday May 20 2020 8:50:18PM
Subject: [TheForumRomanum] Introducing myself



Begin forwarded message:

From: "A. Sempronius Capito" <christopher0608@...>
Subject: Introducing myself
Date: May 20, 2020 at 5:45:02 AM EDT

Salvete omnes!
I just submitted my citizenship application and am waiting for the censor's reply with baited breath.

The censor (yours truly) will visit the site and respond to you, but is very busy with final exams and other academic duties.  Bated breath, however...

Valete!
Capito

Vale!  


Beginner

soaressaulo69@...
 

Salve, fellow people! I am new to this and I've been seeing that Roman Polytheism fits better for me, but I have also been wondering how to start, like my first event with the gods, etc.
If anyone can help me, I'll be thankful.


Nova Roma, discord server. #poll

soaressaulo69@...
 

Wouldn't Discord (a app for mobile and PC users) be better to all of us? It is better for communications and things, se could talk better about some topics and others.

Thank you for voting. Results will be available when the poll is closed.



Beginner

A. Tullia Scholastica, consul
 

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D. 

Forwarded from a new member.  

Valete! 

Begin forwarded message:

Subject: Beginner
Date: June 2, 2020 at 7:38:53 PM EDT

Salve, fellow people! I am new to this and I've been seeing that Roman Polytheism fits better for me, but I have also been wondering how to start, like my first event with the gods, etc.
If anyone can help me, I'll be thankful.


Re: Introductory Video

P. Claudius Caecus Iunius Brutus
 

Salve,

I’m certainly happy to share updates with those interested. Here is one;

This is an early prototype lesson from the CDR course that is in progress. This is the first lesson out of a series of lessons making up an introductory course. This lesson focuses on some background that is useful to know when studying the ancient sources on the CDR. 


Vale,

Brutus

On May 30, 2020, at 8:13 PM, M. Hortensia Fabiana via groups.io <rory12001@...> wrote:

M. Hortensia Paterculo L. Liviae spd;

I am all for this idea of a Nova Roma TV Channel. In fact I believe our consul T. Domitius Draco has created one on Twitch. This is where we need to go for the future. I really like your idea Rufa of a variety of shows, cooking, maybe a day with the legio etc and of course videos on the Cultus Deorum, instructing cives how to set up a home altar and simple altar prayers. It would be great. We also could live stream games, which would be excellent. Latin subtitles! so great.

I need to talk with Lentulus about this wonderful idea.

I have OSB studio free recording software which is excellent: https://obsproject.com/
valeas
Marca Faustina
Accademia Thules was the online university platform set up by my dear friend Saturninus, he was so ahead of his time!
When we get projects up and running I am convinced I can get him to return from exile.


Re: The Roman Republic’s Impact on Our Founding Fathers – Join us June 5 at 6pm!

M. Hortensia Maior Faustina, flamen Carmentalis
 

M. Faustina Paterculo sal;

Gratias tibi ago for the link and the correction!  I should have said U.S.A.
valeas
 M. Faustina


Re: The Roman Republic’s Impact on Our Founding Fathers – Join us June 5 at 6pm!

A. Iulius Paterculus, aedilis curulis
 

Paterculus M. Faustinae s.p.d.
You are absolutely right about the subject line. In my defence, I
did not write it out, just forwarded the message as it had been sent.
If I were writing it, I would have specified "the Founding Fathers of
the United States", as "America" is the name of two continents and
"America's Founding Fathers" would include Simón Bolívar and José de
San Martín.
The organization sponsoring this event does seem to be doing it by
Zoom. Once I registered (using the "Register Now" button in the
original message), the registration page became a link and a second
version of the same link was sent by email. Here is the URL of the
registration page in case it's easier to access that way:
<https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_xGIgxCNRQyCki2vVFGmzEQ>
Vale.

On 5/31/20, M. Hortensia Fabiana via groups.io
<rory12001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
M. Faustina Paterculo spd;
that sounds so interesting Patercule, is there a link? Are you doing it by
Zoom?

As the praetrix; such postings are always appreciated but please in the
future put in "America's Founding Fathers" we have many international
members and 'our' refers to Rome!
Dii nobis faveant!
valeas
Marca Faustina
Praetrix




Re: The Roman Republic’s Impact on Our Founding Fathers – Join us June 5 at 6pm!

M. Hortensia Maior Faustina, flamen Carmentalis
 

M. Faustina Paterculo spd;
  that sounds so interesting Patercule, is there a link? Are you doing it by Zoom? 

As the praetrix; such postings are always appreciated but please in the future put in "America's Founding Fathers" we have many international members and 'our' refers to Rome!
Dii nobis faveant!
valeas
Marca Faustina
Praetrix


The Roman Republic’s Impact on Our Founding Fathers – Join us June 5 at 6pm!

A. Iulius Paterculus, aedilis curulis
 

Salvete omnes,
  Iohanna from our local Latin group forwarded the invitation to this lecture. It is being sent on in case others would like to participate.
   Valete,
     Paterculus

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: 
Date: Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:09 AM
Subject: Fwd: The Roman Republic’s Impact on Our Founding Fathers – Join us June 5 at 6pm!
To: 


Forward as you wish.

Iohanna


-----Original Message-----
From: NIAF Information <information@t.niaf.org>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 11:05 am
Subject: The Roman Republic’s Impact on Our Founding Fathers – Join us June 5 at 6pm!

Join NIAF for its first Ernest Pellegri Virtual Event and discover how the Founding Fathers’ classical educations played a rol
 
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As proud Italians and Italian Americans, we all know the immense impact that Italy has had on forming the United States that we know and love today. But did you know that when the Founding Fathers envisioned the United States' governmental structure, they based it on mid-Republican Rome?
 
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Following Dr. Adler's presentation, there will be a brief Q&A session.
 
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Re: Introductory Video

M. Hortensia Maior Faustina, flamen Carmentalis
 

M. Hortensia Paterculo L. Liviae spd;

I am all for this idea of a Nova Roma TV Channel. In fact I believe our consul T. Domitius Draco has created one on Twitch. This is where we need to go for the future. I really like your idea Rufa of a variety of shows, cooking, maybe a day with the legio etc and of course videos on the Cultus Deorum, instructing cives how to set up a home altar and simple altar prayers. It would be great. We also could live stream games, which would be excellent. Latin subtitles! so great.

I need to talk with Lentulus about this wonderful idea.

I have OSB studio free recording software which is excellent: https://obsproject.com/
valeas
Marca Faustina
Accademia Thules was the online university platform set up by my dear friend Saturninus, he was so ahead of his time!
When we get projects up and running I am convinced I can get him to return from exile.


Re: Introductory Video

L. Livia Rufa, scriba aedilicia
 

Salvete omnes, 
I was thinking we could set up a sort of virtual TV channel. Citizens could make educational videos on, say, cooking Roman dishes or practicing the religion... and, then, someone who understands video editing (perhaps me, or one of the film students I know) could edit the footage into something professional-looking. Then, we could post the videos to official "NovaRomaTV" pages on YouTube, Vimeo, and related sites. Perhaps we could even make Latin-dubbed versions. Or, if we could raise the money, put together a Latin-language webshow about everyday life in the Roman Republic (with English, Chinese, German, etc subtitles). That might drum up interest in our organization - especially if it's funny. 

- Rufa


Re: Introductory Video

A. Iulius Paterculus, aedilis curulis
 

Paterculus M. Faustinae Brutoque omnibusque s.d.
It would definitely be a good thing if Nova Roma could create some
new videos, instructional or otherwise, Faustina. Not that long ago,
L. Livia Rufa was talking about something along those lines as well.
It seems like this is something a single technologically knowledgeable
citizen comfortable with performing in front of others could do on her
or his own. If any such people find themselves with the free time,
maybe we could devise some way vetting them and making them
"official", whatever that would entail.
I agree that the simple ritual format you included in your email is
elegant and comprehensible. The multiple choice layout definitely
brings across the "building block" idea that Brutus was talking about,
which is extremely helpful. If there are multiple options, it is
highly preferable to be told that explicitly, rather than to see
different things in different places and to wonder whether someone has
the information wrong or if there is a reason why a certain format is
usable in one situation but not another.
Both of the projects you've mentioned sound very interesting, Brute.
Please advertise them here again once they are complete. I would
certainly be interested in looking into each (although I am not really
a cultor and don't have cash to burn - would either be an obstacle?).
Surely there are others who would also be like to learn what you and
your compatriots have to share on this and other topics, even if we
are not looking to join your group. I hope that you also inform the
members of your republic when we have projects here which may be of
interest to them.
Valete.

On 5/28/20, publius iunius brutus <piuniusbrutus@romanrepublic.org> wrote:

Sal.

Please note reference to Numa has nothing to do with the supposed King. It
was simply a name of a research group that collaborated and wrote the Roman
ceremonial formula. It was led by the late L. Curtius Philo was a university
professor focused upon early European religions. His death in 2018 was a big
loss. I believe this protocol is a big part of his legacy within the CDR
community.

I agree the video is too long for a daily ceremony. The video might be
inadvertently misleading in this regards. This is what the video is trying
to show; The work by the Societas Numaea at the RomanRepublic.org
demonstrated several recurrent ceremonial themes in the sources. You can
easily identify within and between ceremonies recurrent “sections”. This is
nothing new as academics in this area have spoken of such ceremonial
“liturgies”, at least within the sacura publica, for decades. Not all of
these ceremonial sections seem to occur in every ceremony. But some seem to
be fairly standard based on the sources that survive. The video shows every
possible section utilized as its demonstrating the entirety of
possibilities. The various components of these individual ceremonial
sections also have some variability as well.

That’s the beauty of the formula. It basically provides various elements for
each section of a ceremony. Some of these sections are optional. Others
always occur within the formula. These elements are based on sourced
references. The cultor can then mix and match with these elements within
ceremonial sections to make their own ceremonies. Almost like a set of
building blocks. Here the formulaic nature of Roman ceremony is an
advantage.

I think it’s also important to differentiate between a ceremony and a
prayer. A private daily prayer and simple offering is different from a
ceremony. A ceremony is more akin to a feast with the Gods. It’s an event
the deity is formally asked to attend. I think a fun analogy is think og it
like hosting a dinner party, it requires some preparation and time. It’s not
an everyday thing.

It was asked what next steps the Roman Republic is working on. Well, there
are two projects related to this video in the works. The first is a
comprehensive online course pertaining to the CDR. One of the barriers to
learning about the CDR is the unfortunate inaccessibility of many new
academic materials. They are hard to find or simply unrealistically
expensive for a cultor. We hope to distill all the sources down into a
format that is written towards practice and for general consumption.

The second project is a book of ceremonies, ideally for every significant
day on the Roman Calendar. This has been a long term project started in 2018
that continues. It requires considerable research, reflection and time. But
it should produce a ceremonial script as per Societas Numaea formula for all
major dates.

When will these projects see the light of day?

I expect the CDR course to be released mid to late summer. This project is
well on its way to completion. The digital platform is up and tested. Now
content is being written and peer reviewed. I actually just finished a
lesson on the Roman calendar before writing this message... My colleague is
currently working on a similar lesson pertaining to concepts of profanus and
sacer.

The ceremonial book is a longer term project. My hope is that we see this
before the end of 2021. But without an appreciation for the ceremonial
formula and how it works, the book will be of limited use. So the course is
the CDR priority at the moment within the Roman Republic.

The intention is to open the course to anyone who is interested. It will be
offered by the Academia Minervalis, an association that actually has its
origins here in NR.

Valete,

Brutus



On May 28, 2020, at 6:15 PM, M. Hortensia Fabiana via groups.io
<rory12001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
M. Faustina Paterculo spd;
I definitely like the idea of a video, and we should do some; but this
one is honestly too long, static and turgid. And the whole Numa tradition
has been shown to be a pious fantasy...So no.

These are the daily lararium prayers of Nova Roma: Nova Roma Lararium
prayers as posted by Lentulus They can be as long or as short as you
choose.

And even better he posted Simple Rituals for Starters Simple Rituals to
start with. This is just the sort of thing that is so helpful!
Offering sacrifice to the Manes, Lares and Penates

You may offer many things, but typical offerings are: incense, wine, milk,
sacrificial cakes, flower.
Approach the lararium, perform a simple adoratio by kissing your right
hand and touching the lararium.
Cover your head, preferably with your toga or palla, but anything will do
it and will be acceptable.
You can pray to the Manes, Lares and Penates at once, or separately. You
can also invoke any of them personally, by on his or her name. If you
wish, invoke your deceased ancestors, parents or relatives using their
names. Invoke your personal household Lar by using the words "Lar
familiaris". Invoke your personal god of the penates by using the god's
name, e.g. Apollo, Minerva, Furrina etc.
Pray the following words aloud:
Latin English
Manes/Lares/Penates/NN, macte Manes/Lares/Penates/NN, blessed
(a) hoc vino/lacte/libo libando (a) by the libation of this
wine/milk/cake
(b) hoc thure obmovendo (b) by the offering of this incense
(c) hoc flore dato (c) by giving you this flower
estote fitote volentes propitii be benevolent and propitious
mihi domo familiae! to me, to my household and to my family!
Then pour the libation and put the sacrifices into the fire of the
lararium, or if you can not burn them, place the items on a plate on your
lararium for that day, and when you can, bury or place them under an arbor
felix.
valeas
M. Faustina



Re: Introductory Video

M. Hortensia Maior Faustina, flamen Carmentalis
 

M. Faustina Bruto sal;
 Brute you don't you know how to properly greet the quirites or an individual? P. Brutus Iunius Quiritbus spd (dat. case)

Anyway Lentulus, I and others have easy access to all the latest scholarly material. There a plenty of archives about.

Also it's pretty easy to boil down:

1.cultores, everday worshipers:   perform simple home Lararium ritual

 2.sacerdotes, priest/ess to a specific god/dess: perform sacrifice to that deity

3. Vestal Virgins, flamens, magistrates: perform state rituals to specific civic deities

An everyday cultor only needs to learn the home ritual.

The dinner party for the gods that you talk about is  called a Lectisternium or a sellisternia (for goddesses).
Anyone can throw one and it's quite easy. I've done it twice and next year I will do so during the Megalesia, but it is properly called matutiones in that context.

Meanwhile good luck in your endeavors
Dii Novae Romae faveant!
May the gods favour Nova Roma!
valeas
Marca Faustina
Senatrix
Flaminica Carmentalis


Re: Introductory Video

P. Claudius Caecus Iunius Brutus
 


Sal. 

Please note reference to Numa has nothing to do with the supposed King. It was simply a name of a research group that collaborated and wrote the Roman ceremonial formula. It was led by the late L. Curtius Philo was a university professor focused upon early European religions. His death in 2018 was a big loss. I believe this protocol is a big part of his legacy within the CDR community. 

I agree the video is too long for a daily ceremony. The video might be inadvertently misleading in this regards. This is what the video is trying to show; The work by the Societas Numaea at the RomanRepublic.org demonstrated several recurrent ceremonial themes in the sources. You can easily identify within and between ceremonies recurrent “sections”. This is nothing new as academics in this area have spoken of such ceremonial “liturgies”, at least within the sacura publica, for decades. Not all of these ceremonial sections seem to occur in every ceremony. But some seem to be fairly standard based on the sources that survive. The video shows every possible section utilized as its demonstrating the entirety of possibilities. The various components of these individual ceremonial sections also have some variability as well. 

That’s the beauty of the formula. It basically provides various elements for each section of a ceremony. Some of these sections are optional. Others always occur within the formula. These elements are based on sourced references. The cultor can then mix and match with these elements within ceremonial sections to make their own ceremonies. Almost like a set of building blocks. Here the formulaic nature of Roman ceremony is an advantage. 

I think it’s also important to differentiate between a ceremony and a prayer. A private daily prayer and simple offering is different from a ceremony. A ceremony is more akin to a feast with the Gods. It’s an event the deity is formally asked to attend. I think a fun analogy is think og it like hosting a dinner party, it requires some preparation and time. It’s not an everyday thing. 

It was asked what next steps the Roman Republic is working on. Well, there are two projects related to this video in the works. The first is a comprehensive online course pertaining to the CDR. One of the barriers to learning about the CDR is the unfortunate inaccessibility of many new academic materials. They are hard to find or simply unrealistically expensive for a cultor. We hope to distill all the sources down into a format that is written towards practice and for general consumption. 

The second project is a book of ceremonies, ideally for every significant day on the Roman Calendar. This has been a long term project started in 2018 that continues. It requires considerable research, reflection and time. But it should produce a ceremonial script as per Societas Numaea formula for all major dates. 

When will these projects see the light of day?

 I expect the CDR course to be released mid to late summer. This project is well on its way to completion. The digital platform is up and tested. Now content is being written and peer reviewed. I actually just finished a lesson on the Roman calendar before writing this message... My colleague is currently working on a similar lesson pertaining to concepts of profanus and sacer. 

The ceremonial book is a longer term project. My hope is that we see this before the end of 2021. But without an appreciation for the ceremonial formula and how it works, the book will be of limited use. So the course is the CDR priority at the moment within the Roman Republic. 

The intention is to open the course to anyone who is interested. It will be offered by the Academia Minervalis, an association that actually has its origins here in NR. 

Valete,

Brutus



On May 28, 2020, at 6:15 PM, M. Hortensia Fabiana via groups.io <rory12001@...> wrote:

M. Faustina Paterculo spd;
  I definitely like the idea of a video, and we should do some; but this one is honestly too long, static and turgid. And the whole Numa tradition has been shown to be a pious fantasy...So no.

These are the daily lararium prayers of Nova Roma: Nova Roma Lararium prayers as posted by Lentulus They can be as long or as short as you choose.

And even better he posted Simple Rituals for Starters Simple Rituals to start with. This is just the sort of thing that is so helpful!

Offering sacrifice to the Manes, Lares and Penates

  • You may offer many things, but typical offerings are: incense, wine, milk, sacrificial cakes, flower.
  • Approach the lararium, perform a simple adoratio by kissing your right hand and touching the lararium.
  • Cover your head, preferably with your toga or palla, but anything will do it and will be acceptable.
  • You can pray to the Manes, Lares and Penates at once, or separately. You can also invoke any of them personally, by on his or her name. If you wish, invoke your deceased ancestors, parents or relatives using their names. Invoke your personal household Lar by using the words "Lar familiaris". Invoke your personal god of the penates by using the god's name, e.g. Apollo, Minerva, Furrina etc.
  • Pray the following words aloud:
Latin English
Manes/Lares/Penates/NN, macte Manes/Lares/Penates/NN, blessed
(a) hoc vino/lacte/libo libando (a) by the libation of this wine/milk/cake
(b) hoc thure obmovendo (b) by the offering of this incense
(c) hoc flore dato (c) by giving you this flower
estote fitote volentes propitii be benevolent and propitious
mihi domo familiae! to me, to my household and to my family!
  • Then pour the libation and put the sacrifices into the fire of the lararium, or if you can not burn them, place the items on a plate on your lararium for that day, and when you can, bury or place them under an arbor felix.
valeas
M. Faustina


Re: Introductory Video

M. Hortensia Maior Faustina, flamen Carmentalis
 

M. Faustina Paterculo spd;
  I definitely like the idea of a video, and we should do some; but this one is honestly too long, static and turgid. And the whole Numa tradition has been shown to be a pious fantasy...So no.

These are the daily lararium prayers of Nova Roma: Nova Roma Lararium prayers as posted by Lentulus They can be as long or as short as you choose.

And even better he posted Simple Rituals for Starters Simple Rituals to start with. This is just the sort of thing that is so helpful!

Offering sacrifice to the Manes, Lares and Penates

  • You may offer many things, but typical offerings are: incense, wine, milk, sacrificial cakes, flower.
  • Approach the lararium, perform a simple adoratio by kissing your right hand and touching the lararium.
  • Cover your head, preferably with your toga or palla, but anything will do it and will be acceptable.
  • You can pray to the Manes, Lares and Penates at once, or separately. You can also invoke any of them personally, by on his or her name. If you wish, invoke your deceased ancestors, parents or relatives using their names. Invoke your personal household Lar by using the words "Lar familiaris". Invoke your personal god of the penates by using the god's name, e.g. Apollo, Minerva, Furrina etc.
  • Pray the following words aloud:
Latin English
Manes/Lares/Penates/NN, macte Manes/Lares/Penates/NN, blessed
(a) hoc vino/lacte/libo libando (a) by the libation of this wine/milk/cake
(b) hoc thure obmovendo (b) by the offering of this incense
(c) hoc flore dato (c) by giving you this flower
estote fitote volentes propitii be benevolent and propitious
mihi domo familiae! to me, to my household and to my family!
  • Then pour the libation and put the sacrifices into the fire of the lararium, or if you can not burn them, place the items on a plate on your lararium for that day, and when you can, bury or place them under an arbor felix.
valeas
M. Faustina


Re: Introductory Video

A. Iulius Paterculus, aedilis curulis
 

Paterculus P. Iunio Bruto omnibusque s.p.d.
This video was good work by your organization, Brute. Have you been
up to anything else which might be of interest to us here in Nova
Roma?
It seems to me that the Societas Numaea protocol differs slightly
from the templates typically used here, but I'm hardly an expert. Did
anyone else notice differences?
Vale et valete.

On 5/27/20, publius iunius brutus <piuniusbrutus@romanrepublic.org> wrote:

Avete,

This was produced by the Roman Republic (RomaRepublic.org). Over the last
few years we have researched and developed a ceremonial protocol / formula.
This video is demonstrating the basics of this protocol. We refer to this
protocol informally as the Societas Numaea protocol. This was the group
within the Roman Republic that conducted the research.

Valete,

P. Iunius Brutus

On May 26, 2020, at 7:13 PM, Stephen Phenow <globpronet@gmail.com> wrote:


Who did this? Its not too bad.
Fabius

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:17 PM Arthur Waite <arthur.f.waite@gmail.com>
wrote:
Salvete omnes,
Presuming it is no longer forbidden to mention our friendly rivals
over at the Roman Republic Cultural Group, I am curious whether anyone
else has seen this introductory video to household religion which they
created:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7_zPccqQ7Y
What are your thoughts about this demonstration? Would you recommend
it to neophytes?
Valete,
Paterculus





Re: Introductory Video

P. Claudius Caecus Iunius Brutus
 


Avete,

This was produced by the Roman Republic (RomaRepublic.org). Over the last few years we have researched and developed a ceremonial protocol / formula. This video is demonstrating the basics of this protocol. We refer to this protocol informally as the Societas Numaea protocol. This was the group within the Roman Republic that conducted the research. 

Valete,

P. Iunius Brutus 

On May 26, 2020, at 7:13 PM, Stephen Phenow <globpronet@...> wrote:


Who did this?  Its not too bad.
Fabius

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:17 PM Arthur Waite <arthur.f.waite@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,
  Presuming it is no longer forbidden to mention our friendly rivals
over at the Roman Republic Cultural Group, I am curious whether anyone
else has seen this introductory video to household religion which they
created:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7_zPccqQ7Y
  What are your thoughts about this demonstration? Would you recommend
it to neophytes?
  Valete,
    Paterculus




Re: Introductory Video

Q. Fabius Maximus, pontifex
 

Who did this?  Its not too bad.
Fabius

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:17 PM Arthur Waite <arthur.f.waite@...> wrote:
Salvete omnes,
  Presuming it is no longer forbidden to mention our friendly rivals
over at the Roman Republic Cultural Group, I am curious whether anyone
else has seen this introductory video to household religion which they
created:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7_zPccqQ7Y
  What are your thoughts about this demonstration? Would you recommend
it to neophytes?
  Valete,
    Paterculus




Introductory Video

A. Iulius Paterculus, aedilis curulis
 

Salvete omnes,
Presuming it is no longer forbidden to mention our friendly rivals
over at the Roman Republic Cultural Group, I am curious whether anyone
else has seen this introductory video to household religion which they
created:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7_zPccqQ7Y
What are your thoughts about this demonstration? Would you recommend
it to neophytes?
Valete,
Paterculus

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