Topics

Nappy Rules...


Chad Lunceford <cluncefo@...>
 

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


Bob
 

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford <cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


Sylvain Durand
 

Bob
My favorite is Age of Eagles but a learning curve and it needs a lot of figures and a lot of players. The Austerlitz game would have been much shorter with 5-6 players a side. 
Millennials won’t play it either. Too much mental calculation.   
All the other games I played felt unbalanced between the nations or between the arms. 
I have over 100 scenarios for age of eagles. Pretty much any engagement in the napoleonic wars with at least 2 brigades a side. 

Sylvain 


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford <cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


El Rolando
 

Sounds like I need to get a copy of Age of Eagles then!

If that is going to be the club go to, I suppose that's how I should base my new collection as well, since it appears to require a LOT of miniatures.

I'm really bummed about Bob's ESR experience. I read through them, and they appeared to check a lot of boxes on paper, but seem to have fallen far short in the actual application.

If gents are interested in Blucher I have a hard copy as well as the Hundred Days card set that I would be more than willing to part company with.

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 11:21 Sylvain via Groups.Io <Sylvainnc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bob
My favorite is Age of Eagles but a learning curve and it needs a lot of figures and a lot of players. The Austerlitz game would have been much shorter with 5-6 players a side. 
Millennials won’t play it either. Too much mental calculation.   
All the other games I played felt unbalanced between the nations or between the arms. 
I have over 100 scenarios for age of eagles. Pretty much any engagement in the napoleonic wars with at least 2 brigades a side. 

Sylvain 


On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford <cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


Don L
 

Bob,


You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.


I found:


Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.


Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.


Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.


Covered with Glory--same as above.


March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.


Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.


General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.


I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.


I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--


I look forward to playing again.


Don


 

On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 


 


Sylvain Durand
 

Don
Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon qualifies for me as the worst Napoleonic rule set ever
I liked General de Brigade but it was 20 years ago

Sylvain

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 02:34:45 PM MST, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:


Bob,


You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.


I found:


Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.


Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.


Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.


Covered with Glory--same as above.


March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.


Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.


General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.


I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.


I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--


I look forward to playing again.


Don


 

On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 


 


Don L
 

Sylvain,

But my copy of GdeB still looks new!

Don


On July 24, 2019 at 4:43 PM "Sylvain via Groups.Io" <Sylvainnc@...> wrote:

 
Don
Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon qualifies for me as the worst Napoleonic rule set ever
I liked General de Brigade but it was 20 years ago

Sylvain

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 02:34:45 PM MST, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:


Bob,


You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.


I found:


Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.


Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.


Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.


Covered with Glory--same as above.


March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.


Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.


General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.


I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.


I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--


I look forward to playing again.


Don


 

On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 


 

 


 


 


Kochese (Larry)
 

Age of Eagles works for me.

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 3:56 PM Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Sylvain,

But my copy of GdeB still looks new!

Don


On July 24, 2019 at 4:43 PM "Sylvain via Groups.Io" <Sylvainnc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

 
Don
Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon qualifies for me as the worst Napoleonic rule set ever
I liked General de Brigade but it was 20 years ago

Sylvain

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 02:34:45 PM MST, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:


Bob,


You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.


I found:


Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.


Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.


Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.


Covered with Glory--same as above.


March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.


Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.


General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.


I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.


I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--


I look forward to playing again.


Don


 

On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 


 

 


 


 


 

I guess a lot of this depends on whether we want to play a tactical game or a more senior level game.

 My preference would be a higher level game, but, what the heck, tactical games can be fun too. 😁

Ray



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Kochese (Larry)" <kochese@...>
Date: 7/24/19 4:00 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Cc: "Sylvain via Groups.Io" <Sylvainnc@...>, Bob <brodgers@...>
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Nappy Rules...

Age of Eagles works for me.

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 3:56 PM Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Sylvain,

But my copy of GdeB still looks new!

Don


On July 24, 2019 at 4:43 PM "Sylvain via Groups.Io" <Sylvainnc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

 
Don
Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon qualifies for me as the worst Napoleonic rule set ever
I liked General de Brigade but it was 20 years ago

Sylvain

On Wednesday, July 24, 2019, 02:34:45 PM MST, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:


Bob,


You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.


I found:


Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.


Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.


Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.


Covered with Glory--same as above.


March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.


Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.


General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.


I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.


I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--


I look forward to playing again.


Don


 

On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 


 

 


 


 


Al
 

Bob - My first wargame set of rules was Column Line and Square (CLS). It was a fun game, the "battle manual" was a 3" loose leaf binder but you need lots of figures (An Austrian battalion was 60 figures) and lots of dice. 

Al Revere

PS - It's in my garage somewhere... I am afrad if I go out there I will never come back....

-----Original Message-----
From: Don L <dleuenbe@...>
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io>; Bob <brodgers@...>
Sent: Wed, Jul 24, 2019 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Nappy Rules...

Bob,

You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.

I found:

Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.

Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.

Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.

Covered with Glory--same as above.

March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.

Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.

General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.

I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.

I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--

I look forward to playing again.

Don

 
On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 

 


Chad Lunceford <cluncefo@...>
 

Cool--thanks for the nappy minis ruleset rundown (say that 3x fast!)!  Sounds like there is a lot of cool stuff out there, with honorable mention going to Age of Eagles and General de Brigade.  I'll have to dig up my GdeB book and get my hands on AoE.  

Chad  

On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 20:01, Al via Groups.Io <alrevere=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bob - My first wargame set of rules was Column Line and Square (CLS). It was a fun game, the "battle manual" was a 3" loose leaf binder but you need lots of figures (An Austrian battalion was 60 figures) and lots of dice. 

Al Revere

PS - It's in my garage somewhere... I am afrad if I go out there I will never come back....

-----Original Message-----
From: Don L <dleuenbe@...>
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io>; Bob <brodgers@...>
Sent: Wed, Jul 24, 2019 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Nappy Rules...

Bob,

You inspired me to go to the garage in this hot weather and rummage about among unopened boxes.

I found:

Empire 3 which I played for many years and liked and my 15mm are organized around these rules--28mm are all organized at 1:25.

Peter Gilder"s In the Grand Manner which I remember fondly.

Scott Bowden and Jim Getz's Chef de Bataillon which I undoubtedly paid a lot of money for and tossed, lots of cards, complexity, etc. Probably works for a couple of people on the tactical level.

Covered with Glory--same as above.

March of Eagles--1989. Again, tactical level. Apparently, I never got them out again.

Napoleonique Encore--dates to 1971 but I remember positively.

General de Brigade which I recall liking but not recalling why. I might recall had I less beer.

I just ordered Black Powder. These have been fun games but I do have issues with morale and not only because of my strained relationship with dice. I'm not sure given our games how I would react to cavalry engagements and to artillery--not enough experience.

I don't think there is any pot of gold to be found here. I do like the idea of settling on a set of rules with whatever house modifications seem right to everyone. Bouncing between rules sets puts a real dent in my enthusiasm for a period. The game becomes much to much about the rule set--

I look forward to playing again.

Don

 
On July 23, 2019 at 12:50 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

Nappy rules I have played:

Empire III - These are OK but very pro-French. Lots of detail so Millennials won’t play them.
Valmy to Waterloo - Empire clone with tons of charts.
Legacy of Glory - Smoothed out Empire clone.
Shako - OK but some weird rules that are a bit gamey and non-historical.
Volley & Bayonet - Basically a board game with small numbers of figures representing large numbers of troops.
Napoleon at War - Good game but one player can only handle a Division. So only for smaller battles of around a Corps.
A to Z Rules Campaigns of Napoleon - Beer & pretzels, but you can do larger battles with them.
Imperial Lances - My set. I like them. Others don’t. So, the search continues.
Fire & Steel - OK. There’s a learning curve. Empire-like without the flow charts.
Et sans Résultat - P’tooey !
Age of Eagles - OK. Figure intensive. So far the one we seem to keep coming back to.
Principles of War Napoleonic - Generic but playable. These would work if enough guys liked them.
Grande Armee - Didn’t feel like a Nap battle to me. 
Napoleon’s Battles - I dislike the basing for Cavalry and it also doesn’t feel like a Napoleonic battle to me,

Those are the ones that I can immediately remember.
I have played others I’m sure.

I also have a few others in my library that I have never played.

Bob



On Jul 23, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Chad Lunceford < cluncefo@...> wrote:

The thread about a ruleset Bob hated made me think of this.  :) 

Is there an "end-all" ruleset out there for Napoleonics?  (Caution, my inexperience is showing...)  I have only heard of a couple: General de Brigade, Sharp Practice and Black Powder.  I have only played Black Powder and General de Brigade, and that was only once, years ago.  Black Powder seems like a good, relatively simple and fun ruleset, but people don't like the movement rules (and I don't just mean John).  I actually have to agree that the movement seems a bit odd: a line unit will either be able to move  0" or up to 2x the weapon range (~1/3 mi) in a given turn.  That doesn't sit right.  

It seems as though every ruleset "works, but....".  It's hard for a new guy to imagine that with all the enthusiasm it hasn't been sorted out yet.  I wonder if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to give a rundown of some of the rulesets you have played, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  Of course, this is all subjective at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.  

Thanks,
Chad


 

 


Bob
 
Edited

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  To compare, Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


Sylvain Durand
 

Bob
You are Correct 
I think that general de brigade or black powder is good for a small section of a large battle or a small
Battle. A division a side (a brigade per player) being the scale. A corps at the most. Scenario could be Massena in Aspern or Davout in Austerlitz. Small battle could be Junot in Vimeiro. 
For large battles, age of empires seem like the choice 
The same would apply to Civil war. Black powder or Pickets charge is good for small battle or section. Large battle would be fire and fury. 
I will check my rules collection but I might have General de Brigade. I have the civil war and awi version of it (Guns at Gettysburg and British grenadier) and all the scenario books


Sylvain


On Jul 25, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


Don L
 

Bob,

I agree but there are a lot of meeting engagements and run up to battles that can be fun. I'm thinking of the 1805 Russian retreat down the Danube after the Austrian fiasco at ULM and the 1809 engagements in Bavaria. Certainly could not do big battles likeAusterlitz, Eylau or Borodino--but I'm not sure that there is any scale (at least that I can see to paint) that would allow this.

Don

On July 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


Bob
 

We did Waterloo and Austerlitz on my table using Age of Eagles.
We did Borodino in my garage using Imperial Lances.

So, it can be done.



On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Bob,

I agree but there are a lot of meeting engagements and run up to battles that can be fun. I'm thinking of the 1805 Russian retreat down the Danube after the Austrian fiasco at ULM and the 1809 engagements in Bavaria. Certainly could not do big battles likeAusterlitz, Eylau or Borodino--but I'm not sure that there is any scale (at least that I can see to paint) that would allow this.

Don

On July 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


Sylvain Durand
 

It was done and it was a lot of fun :-)


On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

We did Waterloo and Austerlitz on my table using Age of Eagles.
We did Borodino in my garage using Imperial Lances.

So, it can be done.



On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Bob,

I agree but there are a lot of meeting engagements and run up to battles that can be fun. I'm thinking of the 1805 Russian retreat down the Danube after the Austrian fiasco at ULM and the 1809 engagements in Bavaria. Certainly could not do big battles likeAusterlitz, Eylau or Borodino--but I'm not sure that there is any scale (at least that I can see to paint) that would allow this.

Don

On July 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


Don L
 

Wow! Would love to try!

On July 25, 2019 at 6:34 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

We did Waterloo and Austerlitz on my table using Age of Eagles.
We did Borodino in my garage using Imperial Lances.

So, it can be done.



On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Don L < dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Bob,

I agree but there are a lot of meeting engagements and run up to battles that can be fun. I'm thinking of the 1805 Russian retreat down the Danube after the Austrian fiasco at ULM and the 1809 engagements in Bavaria. Certainly could not do big battles likeAusterlitz, Eylau or Borodino--but I'm not sure that there is any scale (at least that I can see to paint) that would allow this.

Don

On July 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob < brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


 


 


 

I think Sylvain's analysis is spot on.
Ray



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Sylvain via Groups.Io" <Sylvainnc@...>
Date: 7/25/19 3:56 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Nappy Rules...

Bob
You are Correct 
I think that general de brigade or black powder is good for a small section of a large battle or a small
Battle. A division a side (a brigade per player) being the scale. A corps at the most. Scenario could be Massena in Aspern or Davout in Austerlitz. Small battle could be Junot in Vimeiro. 
For large battles, age of empires seem like the choice 
The same would apply to Civil war. Black powder or Pickets charge is good for small battle or section. Large battle would be fire and fury. 
I will check my rules collection but I might have General de Brigade. I have the civil war and awi version of it (Guns at Gettysburg and British grenadier) and all the scenario books


Sylvain


On Jul 25, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


Mike Dolan
 

Hello Sylvain,

Mike D here. Do you have 8 squads of American and German Inf WW 2, 16 in total? If I can find someone who is interested in learning the rules I think I have thought of a way to play an 8 player Chain of Command scenario that would force people to have to work together in pairs and would not require a lot of waiting around? Please let me know your thoughts. 

TY 

Mike

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 4:37 PM Sylvain via Groups.Io <Sylvainnc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It was done and it was a lot of fun :-)


On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

We did Waterloo and Austerlitz on my table using Age of Eagles.
We did Borodino in my garage using Imperial Lances.

So, it can be done.



On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Bob,

I agree but there are a lot of meeting engagements and run up to battles that can be fun. I'm thinking of the 1805 Russian retreat down the Danube after the Austrian fiasco at ULM and the 1809 engagements in Bavaria. Certainly could not do big battles likeAusterlitz, Eylau or Borodino--but I'm not sure that there is any scale (at least that I can see to paint) that would allow this.

Don

On July 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


--
Mike Dolan


Sylvain Durand
 

Mike 
I have way over 8 squads of each

Sylvain 


On Jul 28, 2019, at 8:58 AM, Mike Dolan <dolanz999@...> wrote:

Hello Sylvain,

Mike D here. Do you have 8 squads of American and German Inf WW 2, 16 in total? If I can find someone who is interested in learning the rules I think I have thought of a way to play an 8 player Chain of Command scenario that would force people to have to work together in pairs and would not require a lot of waiting around? Please let me know your thoughts. 

TY 

Mike

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 4:37 PM Sylvain via Groups.Io <Sylvainnc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It was done and it was a lot of fun :-)


On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

We did Waterloo and Austerlitz on my table using Age of Eagles.
We did Borodino in my garage using Imperial Lances.

So, it can be done.



On Jul 25, 2019, at 4:32 PM, Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:

Bob,

I agree but there are a lot of meeting engagements and run up to battles that can be fun. I'm thinking of the 1805 Russian retreat down the Danube after the Austrian fiasco at ULM and the 1809 engagements in Bavaria. Certainly could not do big battles likeAusterlitz, Eylau or Borodino--but I'm not sure that there is any scale (at least that I can see to paint) that would allow this.

Don

On July 25, 2019 at 5:20 PM Bob <brodgers@...> wrote:

General de Brigade is 1:20 (36-man Battalions) scale.  Empire is 1:60 (12-man Battalions).
Having never played it, I assume that each player could run about a Division.
Probably couldn't do more than a couple Corps per side on my table.

So we could push a lot of lead but we couldn't redo any full-scale battles.

Bob


--
Mike Dolan