Topics

US vs. UK Wargaming

John C
 

Hi,

Thought this post was of interest.  It is from the Big Bloody Battles Yahoo group by Chris Pringle, the author of the rules.

As you will recall, Col. Bill Grey has authored variants for Fire and Fury including Age of Honor for 18th century and Age of Eagles for Napoleonics.   His latest is Age of Valor which covers the 19th century, including many of the battles that are covered by BBB, but at a lower unit level, so that the AoV version of a particular battle needs more figures and a larger table area.   There is a current thread contrasting BBB and AoV with one contributor complaining that no one has the figures or the space to stage AoV battles.   This was Chris Pringle's response (which IMHO, while containing truth, is not really accurate).

__________________________________________________________________________________________________Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:14 am . Posted by: bbbchrisp

You have to bear in mind the US wargames convention culture. I think there is a sizable proportion of US wargamers who hardly get to game more than three times a year, but when they do, it is for three days solid at residential events (mainly Historicon, Fall In and Cold Wars, but there are others). People sign up for grand participation games on large tables with many players. I suppose that's the AOV template, whereas BBB's is the UK club scene geared to that 3-hour Monday night slot for 4 or 6 mates getting together round a 6'x4' table. 

Chris 

Sylvain
 

John
The main difference between Europe and USA is the size of the tables as we live in bigger homes on this side of the pond due to the real estate prices
Most UK rulesets have a 6 by 4 table in mind when US games are based usually on a 12 by 6 table
I disagree with gaming 3 times a year. I used to game 2 or 3 times a week in Chicago :-) and I had to skip games

Just my 2 cents

Sylvain

On Thursday, January 10, 2019, 9:31:51 AM MST, John C via Groups.Io <curranjohng@...> wrote:


Hi,

Thought this post was of interest.  It is from the Big Bloody Battles Yahoo group by Chris Pringle, the author of the rules.

As you will recall, Col. Bill Grey has authored variants for Fire and Fury including Age of Honor for 18th century and Age of Eagles for Napoleonics.   His latest is Age of Valor which covers the 19th century, including many of the battles that are covered by BBB, but at a lower unit level, so that the AoV version of a particular battle needs more figures and a larger table area.   There is a current thread contrasting BBB and AoV with one contributor complaining that no one has the figures or the space to stage AoV battles.   This was Chris Pringle's response (which IMHO, while containing truth, is not really accurate).

__________________________________________________________________________________________________Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:14 am . Posted by: bbbchrisp

You have to bear in mind the US wargames convention culture. I think there is a sizable proportion of US wargamers who hardly get to game more than three times a year, but when they do, it is for three days solid at residential events (mainly Historicon, Fall In and Cold Wars, but there are others). People sign up for grand participation games on large tables with many players. I suppose that's the AOV template, whereas BBB's is the UK club scene geared to that 3-hour Monday night slot for 4 or 6 mates getting together round a 6'x4' table. 

Chris 

Bob
 

I disagree with Pringle’s analysis as well. There might be a few people who game only 3 times a year but that would be a distinct minority.  In my experience, once a month would probably be closer to the majority statistic. 

And I expect that most in-home US tables are either 4’x8’ plywood, or 5’x9’ ping pong tables.

4’x6’ tables are mainly in shops and really only exist because of GW.

Bob



On Jan 10, 2019, at 9:43 AM, Sylvain via Groups.Io <Sylvainnc@...> wrote:

John
The main difference between Europe and USA is the size of the tables as we live in bigger homes on this side of the pond due to the real estate prices
Most UK rulesets have a 6 by 4 table in mind when US games are based usually on a 12 by 6 table
I disagree with gaming 3 times a year. I used to game 2 or 3 times a week in Chicago :-) and I had to skip games

Just my 2 cents

Sylvain

On Thursday, January 10, 2019, 9:31:51 AM MST, John C via Groups.Io <curranjohng@...> wrote:


Hi,

Thought this post was of interest.  It is from the Big Bloody Battles Yahoo group by Chris Pringle, the author of the rules.

As you will recall, Col. Bill Grey has authored variants for Fire and Fury including Age of Honor for 18th century and Age of Eagles for Napoleonics.   His latest is Age of Valor which covers the 19th century, including many of the battles that are covered by BBB, but at a lower unit level, so that the AoV version of a particular battle needs more figures and a larger table area.   There is a current thread contrasting BBB and AoV with one contributor complaining that no one has the figures or the space to stage AoV battles.   This was Chris Pringle's response (which IMHO, while containing truth, is not really accurate).

__________________________________________________________________________________________________Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:14 am . Posted by: bbbchrisp

You have to bear in mind the US wargames convention culture. I think there is a sizable proportion of US wargamers who hardly get to game more than three times a year, but when they do, it is for three days solid at residential events (mainly Historicon, Fall In and Cold Wars, but there are others). People sign up for grand participation games on large tables with many players. I suppose that's the AOV template, whereas BBB's is the UK club scene geared to that 3-hour Monday night slot for 4 or 6 mates getting together round a 6'x4' table. 

Chris 

John C
 

Hi Sylvain,

Yes, of course I think it is a very narrow, incorrect view of US wargaming.  I have posted a rebuttal to the Yahoo group.

Interestingly, on NPR the other day, there was a piece about the size of the average US home.   40 years ago, based on Federal statistics, the average US home was 1600 square feet.  Now it is 2600 square feet.  So a lot of US wargamers can now have a dedicated wargame room and wargame table.   One of the few upsides of wargamers growing older, is that children or family move out, and wargamers get to grab a spare room (Larry, for example!! :-))

But unfortunately, the British, though admirable in many ways, often believe they know more than they do, especially when it comes to the USA, and - apparently - especially about US wargaming in particular!

JC


From: Sylvain via Groups.Io <Sylvainnc@...>
To: Table Top Gaming Society <the-table-top-gaming-society@groups.io>; The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] US vs. UK Wargaming

John
The main difference between Europe and USA is the size of the tables as we live in bigger homes on this side of the pond due to the real estate prices
Most UK rulesets have a 6 by 4 table in mind when US games are based usually on a 12 by 6 table
I disagree with gaming 3 times a year. I used to game 2 or 3 times a week in Chicago :-) and I had to skip games

Just my 2 cents

Sylvain

On Thursday, January 10, 2019, 9:31:51 AM MST, John C via Groups.Io <curranjohng@...> wrote:


Hi,

Thought this post was of interest.  It is from the Big Bloody Battles Yahoo group by Chris Pringle, the author of the rules.

As you will recall, Col. Bill Grey has authored variants for Fire and Fury including Age of Honor for 18th century and Age of Eagles for Napoleonics.   His latest is Age of Valor which covers the 19th century, including many of the battles that are covered by BBB, but at a lower unit level, so that the AoV version of a particular battle needs more figures and a larger table area.   There is a current thread contrasting BBB and AoV with one contributor complaining that no one has the figures or the space to stage AoV battles.   This was Chris Pringle's response (which IMHO, while containing truth, is not really accurate).

__________________________________________________________________________________________________Wed Jan 9, 2019 8:14 am . Posted by: bbbchrisp

You have to bear in mind the US wargames convention culture. I think there is a sizable proportion of US wargamers who hardly get to game more than three times a year, but when they do, it is for three days solid at residential events (mainly Historicon, Fall In and Cold Wars, but there are others). People sign up for grand participation games on large tables with many players. I suppose that's the AOV template, whereas BBB's is the UK club scene geared to that 3-hour Monday night slot for 4 or 6 mates getting together round a 6'x4' table. 

Chris 


John C
 

Good point about table size Bob.  

For frequency of gaming, I agree about once a month.   However many subgroups, notably the ancients guys, with the various tournament oriented 2 1/2 hour game rules, seem to game regularly once or twice a week.  Same would apply to things like Flames of War or skirmish stuff like SAGA.

See my reply to Sylvain.   US homes have gone from an average size of 1600 sq. ft. to 2600 sq. ft. over the past 40 years.  So I think a lot of US gamers have been able to get dibs on a spare room in their house and convert it to a dedicated wargames room.

JC


From: Bob <brodgers@...>
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] US vs. UK Wargaming

I disagree with Pringle’s analysis as well. There might be a few people who game only 3 times a year but that would be a distinct minority.  In my experience, once a month would probably be closer to the majority statistic. 

And I expect that most in-home US tables are either 4’x8’ plywood, or 5’x9’ ping pong tables.

4’x6’ tables are mainly in shops and really only exist because of GW.

Bob