Date   

Trash-Treasure

Bob
 
Edited

A few more new items have gone into the box this week.
1st come, 1st served.

Rules


Mantic plastic Dwarves


Metal Dragonrune Orcs


Ottoman and Transylvanian flags


Re: Ed Bearss passed away

Michael M
 

Yes, he and Shelby Foote made the story come alive.

Michael Machell
madmachell@...


-------- Original message --------
From: El Rolando <rollandlahaie@...>
Date: 9/16/20 10:23 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Ed Bearss passed away

That's a shame. Always liked he and Shelby Foote the most from the Ken Burns doc.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 22:20 Bob <brodgers.cell@...> wrote:

This came through today. 

Begin forwarded message:

Subject: Ed Bearss passed away

 Civil War Times MagazineFollow
9 hrs ·

We've received news that legendary Civil War Historian Ed Bearss has passed away. A decorated WWII Marine Corps veteran, Bearss, who was 97 years old, rose to national prominence as a talking head during the Ken Burns documentary “The Civil War,” but that is only a small part of his fantastic legacy. Among his innumerable accomplishments, Bearss was the former chief historian of the National Park Service. He was known for his discovery of the ironclad USS Cairo in the Yazoo river and his efforts to have it raised and preserved, his tremendous efforts to protect hallowed ground, and for giving countless battlefield tours across the spectrum of American military history, but with a focus on the Civil War. As anyone who attended his tours can attest, his indefatigable energy and vigor put many decades younger than him to shame. Bearss lived a long and fruitful life pursing his passion for history, and engaging others in his interest. We won’t see the likes of this amazing charismatic personality again. He was one of a kind. Rest in peace.


Re: Ed Bearss passed away

El Rolando
 

That's a shame. Always liked he and Shelby Foote the most from the Ken Burns doc.


On Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 22:20 Bob <brodgers.cell@...> wrote:

This came through today. 

Begin forwarded message:

Subject: Ed Bearss passed away

 Civil War Times MagazineFollow
9 hrs ·

We've received news that legendary Civil War Historian Ed Bearss has passed away. A decorated WWII Marine Corps veteran, Bearss, who was 97 years old, rose to national prominence as a talking head during the Ken Burns documentary “The Civil War,” but that is only a small part of his fantastic legacy. Among his innumerable accomplishments, Bearss was the former chief historian of the National Park Service. He was known for his discovery of the ironclad USS Cairo in the Yazoo river and his efforts to have it raised and preserved, his tremendous efforts to protect hallowed ground, and for giving countless battlefield tours across the spectrum of American military history, but with a focus on the Civil War. As anyone who attended his tours can attest, his indefatigable energy and vigor put many decades younger than him to shame. Bearss lived a long and fruitful life pursing his passion for history, and engaging others in his interest. We won’t see the likes of this amazing charismatic personality again. He was one of a kind. Rest in peace.


Ed Bearss passed away

Bob
 


This came through today. 

Begin forwarded message:

Subject: Ed Bearss passed away

 Civil War Times MagazineFollow
9 hrs ·

We've received news that legendary Civil War Historian Ed Bearss has passed away. A decorated WWII Marine Corps veteran, Bearss, who was 97 years old, rose to national prominence as a talking head during the Ken Burns documentary “The Civil War,” but that is only a small part of his fantastic legacy. Among his innumerable accomplishments, Bearss was the former chief historian of the National Park Service. He was known for his discovery of the ironclad USS Cairo in the Yazoo river and his efforts to have it raised and preserved, his tremendous efforts to protect hallowed ground, and for giving countless battlefield tours across the spectrum of American military history, but with a focus on the Civil War. As anyone who attended his tours can attest, his indefatigable energy and vigor put many decades younger than him to shame. Bearss lived a long and fruitful life pursing his passion for history, and engaging others in his interest. We won’t see the likes of this amazing charismatic personality again. He was one of a kind. Rest in peace.


Re: The Graying of the Hobby Or... Flogging a Very Old Horse

Michael M
 


Really good points about having different priorities in your 20s and 30s with marriage, home ownership and kids.  I started historical miniatures gaming in my 30s, but to your point, my collecting and painting really took off once I was established in my career and my daughter had developed her own interests.  Fortunately, my wife sees the stress-release benefit and encourages my profligacy.

I don't really know how to respond to the graying of the hobby warning.  I heard it when I was playing strategy wargames in my teens and 20s and then later when I got into miniatures.  It really hasn't come to pass as far as I can tell.  I am getting older, but still manage to find other old farts like me who share an interest.  I suspect that we can do more to encourage the younger guys to participate in historical gaming.  I also think there are some genres that can be a "gateway drug" to historicals. That's why I don't mind the occasional orc or elf on the tabletop. Some skirmish-type games like Pirates, Wild West and WW2 present sufficient eye candy to also get gamers to cross over.  Along those lines,  "Lion Rampant" kind of strikes me as Warhammer-esque in practice, so kind of bridges the leap from fantasy to historical.

I think our group is pretty welcoming, but our gaming isn't in a public setting like a game shop or a Convention, so there aren't public opportunities to share historicals among he younger gaming crowd.  Bob's website helps, but there is a big difference between reading about and seeing pictures of games versus having a well-painted Napoleonic or Ancients army deployed on the table in front of you.

Bottom line for me is that there a plenty of us out there to keep the hobby going, but we shouldn't lose sight of opportunities to attract fresh players.

My two cents for what it's worth.m


Michael Machell
madmachell@...


-------- Original message --------
From: El Rolando <rollandlahaie@...>
Date: 9/16/20 12:47 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] The Graying of the Hobby Or... Flogging a Very Old Horse

Watched Little Wars TV's video about whether or not historical gaming is dying out, and while there were good points made, I don't see it.  It's an expensive, and time intensive hobby that is best suited for folks middle aged and older.  Though I was a semi-active club member in my late 20's, attending the odd game here and there, I was never able to devote the time I seem to have now in my late 30's to painting, terrain building, and gaming fairly regularly.  In fact, because there was always a financial obligation or saving for a big purchase (like a home) going on in my 20's, paired with young children all over the house, I barely picked up a brush for almost a decade.

During that time, I still kept up on miniature lines, rule sets, and dreamed of the days when I would have the time and money for the truly big projects I wanted to dive into when I had the trifecta of time, money, and space.  I didn't fall away from gaming or a lifelong love of toy soldiers.  I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that it's a hobby that is always going to look 'gray,' because it isn't until your hair starts losing a bit of colour that you can really dive into it.

Anyway, was wondering what the members of our own group thought about it, if they've thought about it at all.


Re: The Graying of the Hobby Or... Flogging a Very Old Horse

Kochese (Larry)
 

I've been collecting and playing historicals since I was 18. Still found time when the kids were little, to still play once a month. This was before internet, so play by mail campaigns  were the way to go. Communication with friends all over the country and overseas was by USPS . It's a tad easier now.
By the way, the hobby was graying in the Seventies, and not going to survive. History does not go away.


On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:47 PM El Rolando <rollandlahaie@...> wrote:
Watched Little Wars TV's video about whether or not historical gaming is dying out, and while there were good points made, I don't see it.  It's an expensive, and time intensive hobby that is best suited for folks middle aged and older.  Though I was a semi-active club member in my late 20's, attending the odd game here and there, I was never able to devote the time I seem to have now in my late 30's to painting, terrain building, and gaming fairly regularly.  In fact, because there was always a financial obligation or saving for a big purchase (like a home) going on in my 20's, paired with young children all over the house, I barely picked up a brush for almost a decade.

During that time, I still kept up on miniature lines, rule sets, and dreamed of the days when I would have the time and money for the truly big projects I wanted to dive into when I had the trifecta of time, money, and space.  I didn't fall away from gaming or a lifelong love of toy soldiers.  I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that it's a hobby that is always going to look 'gray,' because it isn't until your hair starts losing a bit of colour that you can really dive into it.

Anyway, was wondering what the members of our own group thought about it, if they've thought about it at all.


The Graying of the Hobby Or... Flogging a Very Old Horse

El Rolando
 

Watched Little Wars TV's video about whether or not historical gaming is dying out, and while there were good points made, I don't see it.  It's an expensive, and time intensive hobby that is best suited for folks middle aged and older.  Though I was a semi-active club member in my late 20's, attending the odd game here and there, I was never able to devote the time I seem to have now in my late 30's to painting, terrain building, and gaming fairly regularly.  In fact, because there was always a financial obligation or saving for a big purchase (like a home) going on in my 20's, paired with young children all over the house, I barely picked up a brush for almost a decade.

During that time, I still kept up on miniature lines, rule sets, and dreamed of the days when I would have the time and money for the truly big projects I wanted to dive into when I had the trifecta of time, money, and space.  I didn't fall away from gaming or a lifelong love of toy soldiers.  I guess the point I'm trying to make, is that it's a hobby that is always going to look 'gray,' because it isn't until your hair starts losing a bit of colour that you can really dive into it.

Anyway, was wondering what the members of our own group thought about it, if they've thought about it at all.


Lion Rampant Warm-up - Sat, 09/19/2020 12:00pm-5:00pm, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io Calendar <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@...>
 

Reminder: Lion Rampant Warm-up

When: Saturday, 19 September 2020, 12:00pm to 5:00pm, (GMT-07:00) America/Phoenix

Where:The War Room

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Organizer: Bob

Description: Lion Rampant
Warm-up for the tournament next week on the 26th.   

Bring your dark age or medieval army and reacquaint yourselves with the rules. 

Make those final tweaks to your force. 

Rules are in the files section. 


Re: Casualties vs. Cohesion rationale from Col. Bill Grey (Age of Eagles)

El Rolando
 

I appreciate what Bill is saying here, but a counter point is that at Borodino, nearly all of those 285,000 on the field became engaged, on a battlefield that was MUCH more compressed, and wasnt a meeting engagement. The Russians threw in all of their reserves, the French only held back the guard.

At Gravelotte-St. Privat there were huge numbers of troops that saw little action, but those that did suffered absolutely staggering losses, such as the attack of the Prussian guards on St. Privat where they lost some 7,000 men in 15 minutes. Being a meeting engagement similar to the first day of Gettysburg, the battle developed over the course of the day. It wasnt a series of frontal assaults on fortified positions like Borodino.

Solferino was a battle that was similar in size to Borodino numbers wise, on a battlefield twice as large, with much more maneuver room and the French-Sardinians and Austrians still managed to grind 50,000 casualties in a day.



On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 20:15 JC via groups.io <curranjohng=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
FYI - posting by Col. Grey on the Age of Eagles list...............

1b. 
Re: Fire and Melee Table Statistics 
From: Colonel Bill
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:32:47 MST 

From discussions with my main squeeze, Bruce Weigle of 1870 fame, think lobster in a pot full of water. Turn the heat up gradually, the lobster stays put until it's too late. Drop the lobster into a pot already boiling, and it goes bat shit crazy to escape. With smoothbore muskets the casualties build up gradually over time, so there is no immediate impact, so troops stick around and thus take more casualties. With Chassepot vs Zundnadelgewehr, significant casualties hit immediately over a short period of time, the troops immediately notice and often,  without orders, take measures to protect themselves by taking cover, backing off, going to ground. Thus, while the unit might become combat ineffective quicker, the overall casualty count drops. Now add in longer range and greater accuracy with rifles vs Brown Bess.

Similar for artillery.

VERY generic example:

a. Gravelotte, 301,332 on the field for both sides, 32,435 casualties total, or 10.7 %.

b. Borodino, 285,000 on the field for both sides (Bezonotzky, 2004), 72,000 casualties, or 25.3 %.

Exceptions, to be sure, but other examples are similar.

Warmest regards,

//Colonel Bill//

Wilbur E Gray
Colonel, US Army (Retired)


--
JC
"Sophisticated, charming and humble" - all down to his club shirt!


Casualties vs. Cohesion rationale from Col. Bill Grey (Age of Eagles)

JC
 

FYI - posting by Col. Grey on the Age of Eagles list...............

1b. 
Re: Fire and Melee Table Statistics 
From: Colonel Bill
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:32:47 MST 

From discussions with my main squeeze, Bruce Weigle of 1870 fame, think lobster in a pot full of water. Turn the heat up gradually, the lobster stays put until it's too late. Drop the lobster into a pot already boiling, and it goes bat shit crazy to escape. With smoothbore muskets the casualties build up gradually over time, so there is no immediate impact, so troops stick around and thus take more casualties. With Chassepot vs Zundnadelgewehr, significant casualties hit immediately over a short period of time, the troops immediately notice and often,  without orders, take measures to protect themselves by taking cover, backing off, going to ground. Thus, while the unit might become combat ineffective quicker, the overall casualty count drops. Now add in longer range and greater accuracy with rifles vs Brown Bess.

Similar for artillery.

VERY generic example:

a. Gravelotte, 301,332 on the field for both sides, 32,435 casualties total, or 10.7 %.

b. Borodino, 285,000 on the field for both sides (Bezonotzky, 2004), 72,000 casualties, or 25.3 %.

Exceptions, to be sure, but other examples are similar.

Warmest regards,

//Colonel Bill//

Wilbur E Gray
Colonel, US Army (Retired)


--
JC
"Sophisticated, charming and humble" - all down to his club shirt!


Lion Rampant Warm-up - Sat, 09/19/2020 12:00pm-5:00pm, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io Calendar <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@...>
 

Reminder: Lion Rampant Warm-up

When: Saturday, 19 September 2020, 12:00pm to 5:00pm, (GMT-07:00) America/Phoenix

Where:The War Room

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Organizer: Bob

Description: Lion Rampant
Warm-up for the tournament next week on the 26th.   

Bring your dark age or medieval army and reacquaint yourselves with the rules. 

Make those final tweaks to your force. 

Rules are in the files section. 


NO GAME THIS SATURDAY - Sat, 09/12/2020 12:00pm-12:01pm #cal-reminder

The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io Calendar <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@...>
 

Reminder: NO GAME THIS SATURDAY

When: Saturday, 12 September 2020, 12:00pm to 12:01pm, (GMT-07:00) America/Phoenix

Where:War Room

View Event

Description: Take the weekend off and live your life.
See you next week for the Lion Rampant practice.


Re: Lion Rampant Tournament - Sat, 09/26/2020 11:00am-5:00pm, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

Bob
 

Can’t tomorrow. 
Maybe this afternoon?


On Sep 11, 2020, at 8:51 AM, Ed <ekj2908@...> wrote:

 I'd be up for some Lion Rampant tomorrow.

On 9/7/2020 8:41 AM, Bob wrote:

The tournament is on the 26th. 

There’s a practice session scheduled for the previous week on the 19th. 

If there’s Interest, I can also set up some practice fights on this-coming Saturday, the 12th.  Let me know if interested  

The rules are in the files directory. 

https://groups.io/g/The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society/files/Lion%20Rampant%20Tournament

I have some extra Templar’s if someone needs to borrow troops. 

Bob



Re: Lion Rampant Tournament - Sat, 09/26/2020 11:00am-5:00pm, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

Ed
 

I'd be up for some Lion Rampant tomorrow.

On 9/7/2020 8:41 AM, Bob wrote:

The tournament is on the 26th. 

There’s a practice session scheduled for the previous week on the 19th. 

If there’s Interest, I can also set up some practice fights on this-coming Saturday, the 12th.  Let me know if interested  

The rules are in the files directory. 

https://groups.io/g/The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society/files/Lion%20Rampant%20Tournament

I have some extra Templar’s if someone needs to borrow troops. 

Bob



Re: Projects during the apocalypse

Kochese (Larry)
 

The base size for the actual stands is 3' front. My bases are\ 4" front. So, either I put them on a 4" base or just leave an inch between wagons. I'll have to drink over that.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 5:35 PM Ed <ekj2908@...> wrote:
what is the base size for the wagons?

On 9/9/2020 4:03 PM, Kochese (Larry) wrote:
Yes It Is. It will be on the flanks of a deployed army.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:00 PM Dan H <danh@...> wrote:

That is a big lager.

 

From: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kochese (Larry)
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:24 PM
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Projects during the apocalypse

 

Polish Command and Tabor Wagon Lager ..Gee , I can still paint



Re: Projects during the apocalypse

Ed
 

what is the base size for the wagons?

On 9/9/2020 4:03 PM, Kochese (Larry) wrote:
Yes It Is. It will be on the flanks of a deployed army.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:00 PM Dan H <danh@...> wrote:

That is a big lager.

 

From: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kochese (Larry)
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:24 PM
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Projects during the apocalypse

 

Polish Command and Tabor Wagon Lager ..Gee , I can still paint



Re: Projects during the apocalypse

Kochese (Larry)
 

No, they are 15mm.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:31 PM Don L <dleuenbe@...> wrote:
Larry, are they 28mm?

On Sep 9, 2020, at 3:24 PM, Kochese (Larry) <kochese@...> wrote:

Polish Command and Tabor Wagon Lager ..Gee , I can still paint <20200909_151119.jpg><20200908_195948.jpg>


Re: Projects during the apocalypse

Don L
 

Larry, are they 28mm?

On Sep 9, 2020, at 3:24 PM, Kochese (Larry) <kochese@...> wrote:

Polish Command and Tabor Wagon Lager ..Gee , I can still paint <20200909_151119.jpg><20200908_195948.jpg>


Re: Projects during the apocalypse

Kochese (Larry)
 

The Poles were generally outnumbered and the wagons secured the flanks and they fought in between them. These wagons are generic so can be used with myriad of Eastern armies. Cossacks Turkomen Tatar etc.

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:10 PM Dan H <danh@...> wrote:

So you’re saying 8 bulldozers on flank march is what I should paint?

 

From: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kochese (Larry)
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 4:03 PM
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Projects during the apocalypse

 

Yes It Is. It will be on the flanks of a deployed army.

 

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:00 PM Dan H <danh@...> wrote:

That is a big lager.

 

From: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kochese (Larry)
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:24 PM
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Projects during the apocalypse

 

Polish Command and Tabor Wagon Lager ..Gee , I can still paint


Re: Projects during the apocalypse

Dan H
 

So you’re saying 8 bulldozers on flank march is what I should paint?

 

From: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kochese (Larry)
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 4:03 PM
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Projects during the apocalypse

 

Yes It Is. It will be on the flanks of a deployed army.

 

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 4:00 PM Dan H <danh@...> wrote:

That is a big lager.

 

From: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io <The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kochese (Larry)
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 3:24 PM
To: The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society@groups.io
Subject: Re: [The-Table-Top-Gaming-Society] Projects during the apocalypse

 

Polish Command and Tabor Wagon Lager ..Gee , I can still paint

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