What was the first oscilloscope to have cursors?


nj902
 

Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.


Paul Amaranth
 

They were in the 468

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:05:06AM -0700, nj902 wrote:
Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.







!DSPAM:60edd5dc299085352711267!
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@AuroraGrp.Com | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows


Jokken Feldhaar
 

The 6R1 had highlighted portions of the trace and automatic measurement
functions, as well as an automatic readout - introduced in 1961, IIRC

regards, Jochen DH6FAZ

Am 13.07.2021 um 20:09 schrieb Paul Amaranth:

They were in the 468

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:05:06AM -0700, nj902 wrote:
Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.







!DSPAM:60edd5dc299085352711267!


Mark Huffstutter
 

The 6R1 was the Plugin that did the magic, when it was in the Tek 567 scope.

Best,
Mark K7ZGT

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jokken Feldhaar
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:27 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] What was the first oscilloscope to have cursors?

The 6R1 had highlighted portions of the trace and automatic measurement
functions, as well as an automatic readout - introduced in 1961, IIRC

regards, Jochen DH6FAZ

Am 13.07.2021 um 20:09 schrieb Paul Amaranth:

They were in the 468

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:05:06AM -0700, nj902 wrote:
Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.







!DSPAM:60edd5dc299085352711267!


Dave Daniel
 

I’m guessing 7854?

DaveD

On Jul 13, 2021, at 14:05, nj902 <wb0emu@arrl.net> wrote:

Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.





cmjones01
 

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:05 PM nj902 <wb0emu@arrl.net> wrote:

Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.
Cursor voltage measurement on a Tek scope would have been possible in
1974, certainly. With a 7D12/M2 plugin the timebase delay settings can
be used to highlight a portion of trace for voltage measurement, and
any delayed timebase with a calibrated delay will effectively do
cursor time measurement. If you want on-screen digital readout of
delta-delayed time that comes in 1976 with the 7B85. So in the 7000
series scopes, I'd say that manually-controlled digital cursor
measurements of time and voltage were possible together for the first
time in 1976.

Chris


ken chalfant
 

Greetings,

I can’t prove it even looking back at my really old Tektronix catalogs - but, when I was in HS back in the late 1960’s a professor at the local college, what was then the Cragmor Campus in Colorado Springs, part of CU Boulder, would let me come up to their lab and mess around with test equipment.

They had a Tek scope that was as big (maybe bigger) than a Tek 556. It had a large plug-in on the right hand side that, as I recall, allowed for time measurements. It may have even been able to do amplitude. If my memory serves me it would allow the user to place intensified dots on the trace and it displayed the value on Nixie tubes within the plug-in.

Does anybody else remember a scope like this?

Ken

On 14Jul, 2021, at 1:09 AM, cmjones01 <chris@stumpie.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:05 PM nj902 <wb0emu@arrl.net> wrote:

Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.
Cursor voltage measurement on a Tek scope would have been possible in
1974, certainly. With a 7D12/M2 plugin the timebase delay settings can
be used to highlight a portion of trace for voltage measurement, and
any delayed timebase with a calibrated delay will effectively do
cursor time measurement. If you want on-screen digital readout of
delta-delayed time that comes in 1976 with the 7B85. So in the 7000
series scopes, I'd say that manually-controlled digital cursor
measurements of time and voltage were possible together for the first
time in 1976.

Chris





David Holland
 

The 567/6R1 combo previously mentioned?

https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/567

David

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 1:28 PM ken chalfant <kpchalfant@msn.com> wrote:

Greetings,

I can’t prove it even looking back at my really old Tektronix catalogs -
but, when I was in HS back in the late 1960’s a professor at the local
college, what was then the Cragmor Campus in Colorado Springs, part of CU
Boulder, would let me come up to their lab and mess around with test
equipment.

They had a Tek scope that was as big (maybe bigger) than a Tek 556. It
had a large plug-in on the right hand side that, as I recall, allowed for
time measurements. It may have even been able to do amplitude. If my
memory serves me it would allow the user to place intensified dots on the
trace and it displayed the value on Nixie tubes within the plug-in.

Does anybody else remember a scope like this?

Ken


On 14Jul, 2021, at 1:09 AM, cmjones01 <chris@stumpie.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:05 PM nj902 <wb0emu@arrl.net> wrote:

Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the
trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was
the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.

Cursor voltage measurement on a Tek scope would have been possible in
1974, certainly. With a 7D12/M2 plugin the timebase delay settings can
be used to highlight a portion of trace for voltage measurement, and
any delayed timebase with a calibrated delay will effectively do
cursor time measurement. If you want on-screen digital readout of
delta-delayed time that comes in 1976 with the 7B85. So in the 7000
series scopes, I'd say that manually-controlled digital cursor
measurements of time and voltage were possible together for the first
time in 1976.

Chris










Dave Voorhis
 

On 14 Jul 2021, at 18:28, ken chalfant <kpchalfant@msn.com> wrote:


Greetings,

I can’t prove it even looking back at my really old Tektronix catalogs - but, when I was in HS back in the late 1960’s a professor at the local college, what was then the Cragmor Campus in Colorado Springs, part of CU Boulder, would let me come up to their lab and mess around with test equipment.

They had a Tek scope that was as big (maybe bigger) than a Tek 556. It had a large plug-in on the right hand side that, as I recall, allowed for time measurements. It may have even been able to do amplitude. If my memory serves me it would allow the user to place intensified dots on the trace and it displayed the value on Nixie tubes within the plug-in.

Does anybody else remember a scope like this?
Mentioned earlier in this thread, it’s probably a 6R1 plugin for the 567 oscilloscope.

In other words, one of these? https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/6R1

In one of these? https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/567


ken chalfant
 

That’s it - (567/6R1)!

I missed the previous mention.

Thanks very much.

Regards,

Ken

On 14Jul, 2021, at 11:47 AM, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

The 567/6R1 combo previously mentioned?

https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fw140.com%2Ftekwiki%2Fwiki%2F567&;data=04%7C01%7C%7Cebb1536f9e7246d6731c08d946ef79a0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637618816619250166%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=GbmEzJt9jWuC24Vzvbmeg4ouhf9IJRW%2FgzPgBSqC1V8%3D&amp;reserved=0

David


On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 1:28 PM ken chalfant <kpchalfant@msn.com <mailto:kpchalfant@msn.com>> wrote:

Greetings,

I can’t prove it even looking back at my really old Tektronix catalogs -
but, when I was in HS back in the late 1960’s a professor at the local
college, what was then the Cragmor Campus in Colorado Springs, part of CU
Boulder, would let me come up to their lab and mess around with test
equipment.

They had a Tek scope that was as big (maybe bigger) than a Tek 556. It
had a large plug-in on the right hand side that, as I recall, allowed for
time measurements. It may have even been able to do amplitude. If my
memory serves me it would allow the user to place intensified dots on the
trace and it displayed the value on Nixie tubes within the plug-in.

Does anybody else remember a scope like this?

Ken


On 14Jul, 2021, at 1:09 AM, cmjones01 <chris@stumpie.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 8:05 PM nj902 <wb0emu@arrl.net> wrote:

Cursors as in highlighted dots (or bars) that can be moved along the
trace with a corresponding method of determining time and voltage..

A second part of the question (if the answer is different) - which was
the first Tektronix scope to have cursors.

Cursor voltage measurement on a Tek scope would have been possible in
1974, certainly. With a 7D12/M2 plugin the timebase delay settings can
be used to highlight a portion of trace for voltage measurement, and
any delayed timebase with a calibrated delay will effectively do
cursor time measurement. If you want on-screen digital readout of
delta-delayed time that comes in 1976 with the 7B85. So in the 7000
series scopes, I'd say that manually-controlled digital cursor
measurements of time and voltage were possible together for the first
time in 1976.

Chris











Brad Thompson
 

ken chalfant wrote on 7/14/2021 2:34 PM:

That’s it - (567/6R1)!
Hello--

Did you mean "what was the first oscilloscope to have cursers"?

My vote would go to the Fairchild/Dumont 766H....

73--

Brad  AA1IP


ditter2
 

As the reader wrote the original question : “What was the first oscilloscope to have cursors? “ the answers were if the question was “which was the first Tek scope to have cursors?” (include the word Tek)

The first digital scope to include cursors was not from Tek or HP, but rather Nicolet. The engineers at Nicolet really took an “out of the box” approach to thinking about digital scopes whereas both Tek and HP treated the initial offerings of digital scopes like analog – more so for Tek. For example, putting the standard dual/delay time base knob on a digital scope really made no sense when you could control the scope to capture all pre trigger data. Nicolet, not having a long heritage of analog scopes took a different approach. Their first DSO did not have a graticule – only cursors for measurements. Their point was as the graticule was only a crude way to visualize a measurement, why make the user count grid spacings when you can directly measure the time and amplitude of any point of the screen to 3 digit resolution using cursors.
Nicolet’s first DSO (I can’t remember the model number) used the same off the shelf 8 bit ADC as the 468. It was originally designed by TRW for military applications.


nj902
 

When was the Nicolet scope introduced?

The one I was thinking of is the Dumont Type 425 High-Frequency Digital readout oscilloscope with:
"direct reading digital readout on two axes"
"an unusual two-dot method of waveform measurement"
@$2750 in 1960!


Clark Foley
 

While I agree that Nicolet produced the first DIGITAL scope with measurement sticks(crosshair) in 1972/1973 it was not the first oscilloscope to offer measurements indicated by little bright bits or lines. At the time of the 567/6R1 and later the 568/230 which pre-date Nicolet 1090, the term CURSOR was not used; however, these instruments produced a numeric display of the values indicated by intensified segments of the trace.

Are we interested in the user interface concept of moving little bright bits along the trace or are we interested in a specific implementation of those little bright bits?


nj902
 

I was just curious - not so much about the word 'cursor' - but as to who first offered a scope that gave users a way to make (somewhat) precise measurements of waveform parameters instead of having to count graticule lines and guesstimate. It looks like the Dumont was first.

It's interesting to follow the evolution of concepts from the first implementation to incredible products like the 7854 and DSA602 through to today where cursors and waveform measurements are an intrinsic part of even the most basic new scope.


Clark Foley
 

I found a reference to the DuMont 425 describing the measurement method. The article was dated Feb, 1960 Electronic Design.
https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/displays/article/21771625/digital-readout-scope


Clark Foley
 

A complete description of the DuMont Type 425 can be found in the DuMont 1960 Catalog, page 32. I found a website where someone had scanned the catalog and posted it for posterity. (https://www.byan-roper.org/steve/manuals/DuMont/DuMont%20Instruments%20and%20Accessories%20Catalog.pdf)

The description is very interesting; joysticks, digital readout by thumb wheel switches, plug-ins, distributed amplifier.