Topics

TM 500 Front Panels

 

I forwarded your reply to the more appropriate topic subject line I started.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 2:16 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904

There are some things to consider when doing a 3D design that complicate the project, and for that matter, may or may not render the design "workable".

There has to be at least one flat space that hits the build platform. Modeling a cube standing on a point isn't a good idea.

There's a limit to how much and how long an overhang can be without having a support. Supports can be removed, if done gracefully. Otherwise, the unsupported part tends to sag.

If you use OpenSCAD, then it's a parametric modeler. You can easily specify the basic backplate and the edge as a model. You can base models off this. Adding a hole at a particular point, square or round, is easy. it takes a few lines of code.

Adding a boss on the front, or on the rear, is easy enough, however anything on the rear keeps the back from being flat, and that's a problem.

For material, PLA would be the material of choice to make the initial models. Making them out of ABS or PETG would be a good choice for durability.

Color is not going to be a problem, you can get pretty close.

There are ways of working around some of this, but those ways do make life more difficult.

Harvey


On 6/2/2020 4:50 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
There are no protrusions on the backside but the inner flat rectangular center of the front panel is recessed on the other side just like the front side. In other words the front panel is reversible.
It may not be necessary to recess it on the back side to make the design simpler.
On the front it would be highly desirable to have a small hole on every panel for the pull tab to go through.
I found a blank I can send you.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 6:48 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904

Dennis,

I am going to take a closer look at some of my TM500 plug ins and see if I can come up with a rough model. Sounds simple enough, as long as the back side of the blank is flat (there are no protrusions). Anything protruding would make the job more difficult. It may seem silly, but one of the most challenging tasks will be to get that thin outer rim of the blank to print properly. Thin sections such as that are problematic. This is where experimentation comes into play.

Another part of the project would be printing a Drill Jig to hold the two parts in perfect alignment, allowing drilling the various holes, so an exact match is achieved.

One of the nice things about 3D printing is that the operator can choose a wide variety of materials to build the model. I tend to use PETG, since the material is easy to print, solvent resistant and is not too brittle. ABS and Nylon are also options. Once the model is done, it is a simple matter to print in whatever color and type material that you wish.

I'm working on a set of cord wrap feet for my "new" 453, once those are complete, I will get on this project. I will let you know what I come up with.

Thanks for the inspiration.




--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator

Harvey White
 

OK, will continue to reply to this thread if I can remember at the moment

Harvey

On 6/2/2020 8:22 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
I forwarded your reply to the more appropriate topic subject line I started.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 2:16 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904

There are some things to consider when doing a 3D design that complicate the project, and for that matter, may or may not render the design "workable".

There has to be at least one flat space that hits the build platform. Modeling a cube standing on a point isn't a good idea.

There's a limit to how much and how long an overhang can be without having a support. Supports can be removed, if done gracefully. Otherwise, the unsupported part tends to sag.

If you use OpenSCAD, then it's a parametric modeler. You can easily specify the basic backplate and the edge as a model. You can base models off this. Adding a hole at a particular point, square or round, is easy. it takes a few lines of code.

Adding a boss on the front, or on the rear, is easy enough, however anything on the rear keeps the back from being flat, and that's a problem.

For material, PLA would be the material of choice to make the initial models. Making them out of ABS or PETG would be a good choice for durability.

Color is not going to be a problem, you can get pretty close.

There are ways of working around some of this, but those ways do make life more difficult.

Harvey


On 6/2/2020 4:50 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
There are no protrusions on the backside but the inner flat rectangular center of the front panel is recessed on the other side just like the front side. In other words the front panel is reversible.
It may not be necessary to recess it on the back side to make the design simpler.
On the front it would be highly desirable to have a small hole on every panel for the pull tab to go through.
I found a blank I can send you.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 6:48 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904

Dennis,

I am going to take a closer look at some of my TM500 plug ins and see if I can come up with a rough model. Sounds simple enough, as long as the back side of the blank is flat (there are no protrusions). Anything protruding would make the job more difficult. It may seem silly, but one of the most challenging tasks will be to get that thin outer rim of the blank to print properly. Thin sections such as that are problematic. This is where experimentation comes into play.

Another part of the project would be printing a Drill Jig to hold the two parts in perfect alignment, allowing drilling the various holes, so an exact match is achieved.

One of the nice things about 3D printing is that the operator can choose a wide variety of materials to build the model. I tend to use PETG, since the material is easy to print, solvent resistant and is not too brittle. ABS and Nylon are also options. Once the model is done, it is a simple matter to print in whatever color and type material that you wish.

I'm working on a set of cord wrap feet for my "new" 453, once those are complete, I will get on this project. I will let you know what I come up with.

Thanks for the inspiration.


Dave Daniel
 

I could use several of these as I have a bunch that have the corners broken off.

DaveD

On 6/2/2020 8:27 PM, Harvey White wrote:
OK, will continue to reply to this thread if I can remember at the moment

Harvey


On 6/2/2020 8:22 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
I forwarded your reply to the more appropriate topic subject line I started.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Harvey White
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 2:16 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904

There are some things to consider when doing a 3D design that complicate the project, and for that matter, may or may not render the design "workable".

There has to be at least one flat space that hits the build platform. Modeling a cube standing on a point isn't a good idea.

There's a limit to how much and how long an overhang can be without having a support.  Supports can be removed, if done gracefully. Otherwise, the unsupported part tends to sag.

If you use OpenSCAD, then it's a parametric modeler.  You can easily specify the basic backplate and the edge as a model.  You can base models off this.  Adding a hole at a particular point, square or round, is easy.  it takes a few lines of code.

Adding a boss on the front, or on the rear, is easy enough, however anything on the rear keeps the back from being flat, and that's a problem.

For material, PLA would be the material of choice to make the initial models.  Making them out of ABS or PETG would be a good choice for durability.

Color is not going to be a problem, you can get pretty close.

There are ways of working around some of this, but those ways do make life more difficult.

Harvey


On 6/2/2020 4:50 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
There are no protrusions on the backside but the inner flat rectangular center of the front panel is recessed on the other side just like the front side. In other words the front panel is reversible.
It may not be necessary to recess it on the back side to make the design simpler.
On the front it would be highly desirable to have a small hole on every panel for the pull tab to go through.
I found a blank I can send you.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2020 6:48 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Advice about buying a 7904

Dennis,

I am going to take a closer look at some of my TM500 plug ins and see if I can come up with a rough model.  Sounds simple enough, as long as the back side of the blank is flat (there are no protrusions). Anything protruding would make the job more difficult.  It may seem silly, but one of the most challenging tasks will be to get that thin outer rim of the blank to print properly.  Thin sections such as that are problematic.  This is where experimentation comes into play.

Another part of the project would be printing a Drill Jig to hold the two parts in perfect alignment, allowing drilling the various holes, so an exact match is achieved.

One of the nice things about 3D printing is that the operator can choose a wide variety of materials to build the model.  I tend to use PETG, since the material is easy to print, solvent resistant and is not too brittle. ABS and Nylon are also options. Once the model is done, it is a simple matter to print in whatever color and type material that you wish.

I'm working on a set of cord wrap feet for my "new" 453, once those are complete, I will get on this project.  I will let you know what I come up with.

Thanks for the inspiration.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Mlynch001
 

All,

I will try to respond to this new topic as well.

Looking forward to working on this project.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Steve Dench
 

There is an unfinshed one on thingiverse as part of an upload under
"Tektronix TM500 module parts" that someone has uploaded, it may be a good
starting point?

On Wed, 3 Jun. 2020, 12:09 pm Mlynch001, <@mlynch001> wrote:

All,

I will try to respond to this new topic as well.

Looking forward to working on this project.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR



Mlynch001
 

Steve wrote:
There is an unfinshed one on >thingiverse as part of an upload under
"Tektronix TM500 module parts" that >someone has uploaded, it may be a >good starting point?
Steve,

I saw this in an earlier search of Thingiverse, I believe those are the top and bottom panels. I’m going to keep searching from time to time to see if anything else pops up.

Thanks for the tip.

Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Steve Dench
 

Hi Michael
When you go into the thingiverse article the front panel is there also, but
needs cut out for the pull tab etc to be added.
Steve.

On Wed, 3 Jun. 2020, 3:07 pm Mlynch001, <@mlynch001> wrote:

Steve wrote:
There is an unfinshed one on >thingiverse as part of an upload under
"Tektronix TM500 module parts" that >someone has uploaded, it may be a
good starting point?
Steve,

I saw this in an earlier search of Thingiverse, I believe those are the
top and bottom panels. I’m going to keep searching from time to time to
see if anything else pops up.

Thanks for the tip.

Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR



Michael W. Lynch
 

Steve,

You are right! I just did another search and it came up.

Michael Lynch

From My I-Phone

@mlynch002

479-477-1115

On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:15 AM, Steve Dench <sjdench48@...> wrote:

Hi Michael
When you go into the thingiverse article the front panel is there also, but
needs cut out for the pull tab etc to be added.
Steve.

On Wed, 3 Jun. 2020, 3:07 pm Mlynch001, <@mlynch001> wrote:

Steve wrote:
There is an unfinshed one on >thingiverse as part of an upload under
"Tektronix TM500 module parts" that >someone has uploaded, it may be a
good starting point?
Steve,

I saw this in an earlier search of Thingiverse, I believe those are the
top and bottom panels. I’m going to keep searching from time to time to
see if anything else pops up.

Thanks for the tip.

Sincerely,
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR




--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas

Michael W. Lynch
 

To anyone interested in this subject,

Here is the THINGIVERSE Link to a blank front panel for the basic TM500 Plug in.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4268888

This should be able to be modified for almost any specific application.

I am going to print one and see how it turns out. I will update with the results.

Sincerely,

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas

Michael W. Lynch
 

All:

Working on the TM 500 Blank Face plate that was being discussed recently.

I have now printed a couple of prototypes. The THINGIVERSE item listed above IS NOT dimensionally accurate. I have modified the STL file to match the dimensions taken from the actual TEK part.

I have posted some pictures of a new original TEKTRONIX part and then two 3D Printed prototypes.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=248278

Printed one part in white, since this material was already loaded in the machine. The gray one in the center, is a second iteration, with some slight modifications. The tan/gray one to the left is the original TEK Part. Color is close enough for me to run with it.

The quality of the front of the printed part is good, the back side is slightly rough, but this is not what you are looking at when the part is installed.

The rim of the original part has some "draft angle" built into it, so it appears slightly tapered toward the top of the rim. It is not possible to duplicate this draft angle with the FDM printing method, so the sides of the panel are perpendicular. This makes the rim of the part a little wider, but it should still fit.

These are not Injection molding quality, but they are not expensive to print. My next task is to try to fit this to one of my plugins that has the broken corners.

Comments and questions are welcomed.

More to come.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas

 

Good stuff.

I have a back burner project to create a new TM500 plugin to create a dual Power supply /charger/exerciser and load tester for 6/12V Lead acid, 1.2V & 7.2V (Prismatic) NiMH and Li Ion batteries which will deliver online reports on the condition and capacity of the batteries.
It will be able to service/recondition NiMH hybrid automotive batteries.

Could use a custom faceplate!

~Ancel

 

Hi Michael,

These look very good in the picture. Unfortunately I can't see much of the detail and that detail matters a lot.
I will be able to make a better assessment when I can hold it in my hand and get a sense of its mechanical properties.
The first real test will come when I make a plugin with them. For that test it would be good to have one each from each different material you used to make them.
The corner holes in the gray one look ragged.
Color isn't important. I don't think Tek panels were always the same color. Either that or as they age their color changes in completely different ways and I am sure some of their final color had to do with the environment they were in, for example - smoking, exposed to chemical vapors in the air, used outside or where they could be exposed to sunlight.

Some I have are gray, some are a dirty brownish-gray, and most are the sand color that Tek switched to for compatibility with the color of HP instruments. When Tek switched from blue to the HP color it sparked an uproar within the company.

Is the backside completely flat or does it also have the recessed area in the entire middle area?

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 4:49 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TM 500 Front Panels

All:

Working on the TM 500 Blank Face plate that was being discussed recently.

I have now printed a couple of prototypes. The THINGIVERSE item listed above IS NOT dimensionally accurate. I have modified the STL file to match the dimensions taken from the actual TEK part.

I have posted some pictures of a new original TEKTRONIX part and then two 3D Printed prototypes.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=248278

Printed one part in white, since this material was already loaded in the machine. The gray one in the center, is a second iteration, with some slight modifications. The tan/gray one to the left is the original TEK Part. Color is close enough for me to run with it.

The quality of the front of the printed part is good, the back side is slightly rough, but this is not what you are looking at when the part is installed.

The rim of the original part has some "draft angle" built into it, so it appears slightly tapered toward the top of the rim. It is not possible to duplicate this draft angle with the FDM printing method, so the sides of the panel are perpendicular. This makes the rim of the part a little wider, but it should still fit.

These are not Injection molding quality, but they are not expensive to print. My next task is to try to fit this to one of my plugins that has the broken corners.

Comments and questions are welcomed.

More to come.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas





--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator

Harvey White
 

I took one of the prototype front panels apart.  The actual plastic panel itself has an inset both in the rear and the front. The front panel of aluminum fits within the frame.  It has (at the least) countersunk holes for the four mounting screws, a countersunk hole for the latch screw, and a slot for the latch screw.

On the back is a similar recess that is for a panel (thin gauge) of aluminum.  The front panel in these plugins, at least the ones I have, is therefore three layers.  The back layer, the plastic, and the front panel.

The problem with the back happens when you consider how 3D printing works.  In this case, you have a rim and an inset on both top and bottom.  The printer starts with the part of the plastic that touches the base.  It prints that.  Now the rest of the panel is slightly, (say 1.64 mm or so) above the printer base.  The printer does not necessarily provide support (it can), and extrudes a filament in the air from one side to another.  This filament tends to sag.  When enough filament is piled on top of the recently printed filament, you get a surface that's flat enough that the remaining layers look flat.

What you end up with is something that looks good from the top (say the front of the panel), and is stringy at the back.

It is possible to print the back with supports, but they will be very thin and perhaps difficult to remove.  The supports are thin, and made so that the amount of filament that is in free air is minimal (and you can therefore print it without too much sag). This will have to be removed before the panel is utilized. Haven't tried that yet.

Harvey

On 6/8/2020 8:23 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Hi Michael,

These look very good in the picture. Unfortunately I can't see much of the detail and that detail matters a lot.
I will be able to make a better assessment when I can hold it in my hand and get a sense of its mechanical properties.
The first real test will come when I make a plugin with them. For that test it would be good to have one each from each different material you used to make them.
The corner holes in the gray one look ragged.
Color isn't important. I don't think Tek panels were always the same color. Either that or as they age their color changes in completely different ways and I am sure some of their final color had to do with the environment they were in, for example - smoking, exposed to chemical vapors in the air, used outside or where they could be exposed to sunlight.

Some I have are gray, some are a dirty brownish-gray, and most are the sand color that Tek switched to for compatibility with the color of HP instruments. When Tek switched from blue to the HP color it sparked an uproar within the company.

Is the backside completely flat or does it also have the recessed area in the entire middle area?

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 4:49 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TM 500 Front Panels

All:

Working on the TM 500 Blank Face plate that was being discussed recently.

I have now printed a couple of prototypes. The THINGIVERSE item listed above IS NOT dimensionally accurate. I have modified the STL file to match the dimensions taken from the actual TEK part.

I have posted some pictures of a new original TEKTRONIX part and then two 3D Printed prototypes.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=248278

Printed one part in white, since this material was already loaded in the machine. The gray one in the center, is a second iteration, with some slight modifications. The tan/gray one to the left is the original TEK Part. Color is close enough for me to run with it.

The quality of the front of the printed part is good, the back side is slightly rough, but this is not what you are looking at when the part is installed.

The rim of the original part has some "draft angle" built into it, so it appears slightly tapered toward the top of the rim. It is not possible to duplicate this draft angle with the FDM printing method, so the sides of the panel are perpendicular. This makes the rim of the part a little wider, but it should still fit.

These are not Injection molding quality, but they are not expensive to print. My next task is to try to fit this to one of my plugins that has the broken corners.

Comments and questions are welcomed.

More to come.

Michael W. Lynch
 

Dennis,

I am working on improving the ragged edge at the mounting holes. These are covered by the screws, not visible once installed. This is something that requires experimentation to correct or minimize.

These fine details (and others) are the most difficult thing to duplicate with FDM printing. These holes will never be quite as good as the original IM parts. Overall, 3D printing cannot duplicate the fine finish of an IM part, at least NOT on the caliber of machines that I have. There are some very good printers out there (costing many thousands of $$$) that can get close to IM, but they are not quite there yet for the home hobby user.

The back side is recessed. See new picture posted in album. You can see the detail and the rougher surface. Again, covered by the inner panel and mostly not visible.

These are all printed from PETG, which is a good compromise of strength, flexibility and easy to print. Different colors of the same material. The white seems to print just a bit better, that cannot be explained, since they are the same material, by the same manufacturer, using the same printer and settings. . The only difference is the color

Once I have these and other small details worked out, I will try to fit one of these to a plug in that has the corners broken off.


More to come.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas

Michael W. Lynch
 

Harvey,

I have the supports pretty well tuned. They come off without too much drama. Working on improving the finer details.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, Arkansas

Vince Vielhaber
 

Some time ago (2-4 years) I tried making a mold of this piece so I could just pour plastic resin into the mold and be done with it. The problem I ran into was that center part was so thin it was a chore just to get the resin to fill in. Because of the recess on both sides it had to be a 2 sided mold. Add to that the edges also became a problem for that type of manufacture. The resin was like water and still wouldn't flow thru all of the tight spaces. That's why they were originally injection molded. Needless to say I gave up on that idea.

I found a similar obstacle with the pull tabs. The shafts are too thin for the plastic to flow. I may still retry that using aluminum for the shaft.

Vince - K8ZW.

On 06/08/2020 08:47 PM, Harvey White wrote:
I took one of the prototype front panels apart. The actual plastic
panel itself has an inset both in the rear and the front. The front
panel of aluminum fits within the frame. It has (at the least)
countersunk holes for the four mounting screws, a countersunk hole for
the latch screw, and a slot for the latch screw.

On the back is a similar recess that is for a panel (thin gauge) of
aluminum. The front panel in these plugins, at least the ones I have,
is therefore three layers. The back layer, the plastic, and the front
panel.

The problem with the back happens when you consider how 3D printing
works. In this case, you have a rim and an inset on both top and
bottom. The printer starts with the part of the plastic that touches
the base. It prints that. Now the rest of the panel is slightly, (say
1.64 mm or so) above the printer base. The printer does not necessarily
provide support (it can), and extrudes a filament in the air from one
side to another. This filament tends to sag. When enough filament is
piled on top of the recently printed filament, you get a surface that's
flat enough that the remaining layers look flat.

What you end up with is something that looks good from the top (say the
front of the panel), and is stringy at the back.

It is possible to print the back with supports, but they will be very
thin and perhaps difficult to remove. The supports are thin, and made
so that the amount of filament that is in free air is minimal (and you
can therefore print it without too much sag). This will have to be
removed before the panel is utilized. Haven't tried that yet.

Harvey


On 6/8/2020 8:23 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Hi Michael,

These look very good in the picture. Unfortunately I can't see much of
the detail and that detail matters a lot.
I will be able to make a better assessment when I can hold it in my
hand and get a sense of its mechanical properties.
The first real test will come when I make a plugin with them. For that
test it would be good to have one each from each different material
you used to make them.
The corner holes in the gray one look ragged.
Color isn't important. I don't think Tek panels were always the same
color. Either that or as they age their color changes in completely
different ways and I am sure some of their final color had to do with
the environment they were in, for example - smoking, exposed to
chemical vapors in the air, used outside or where they could be
exposed to sunlight.

Some I have are gray, some are a dirty brownish-gray, and most are the
sand color that Tek switched to for compatibility with the color of HP
instruments. When Tek switched from blue to the HP color it sparked an
uproar within the company.

Is the backside completely flat or does it also have the recessed area
in the entire middle area?

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 4:49 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TM 500 Front Panels

All:

Working on the TM 500 Blank Face plate that was being discussed recently.

I have now printed a couple of prototypes. The THINGIVERSE item
listed above IS NOT dimensionally accurate. I have modified the STL
file to match the dimensions taken from the actual TEK part.

I have posted some pictures of a new original TEKTRONIX part and then
two 3D Printed prototypes.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=248278

Printed one part in white, since this material was already loaded in
the machine. The gray one in the center, is a second iteration, with
some slight modifications. The tan/gray one to the left is the
original TEK Part. Color is close enough for me to run with it.

The quality of the front of the printed part is good, the back side is
slightly rough, but this is not what you are looking at when the part
is installed.

The rim of the original part has some "draft angle" built into it, so
it appears slightly tapered toward the top of the rim. It is not
possible to duplicate this draft angle with the FDM printing method,
so the sides of the panel are perpendicular. This makes the rim of
the part a little wider, but it should still fit.

These are not Injection molding quality, but they are not expensive to
print. My next task is to try to fit this to one of my plugins that
has the broken corners.

Comments and questions are welcomed.

More to come.

Harvey White
 

Good, I haven't tried too much more.  Working on designing an IC tester, and eventually upgrading one printer.  Waiting for the PC boards to come back from china and working on a screen designer as well.

Main problem will be the supports, then compensating for the manufacturing tolerances in the holes.  The outside is pretty much spot on, though, as is the top (behind the front panel) part.

Harvey

On 6/8/2020 9:19 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io wrote:
Harvey,

I have the supports pretty well tuned. They come off without too much drama. Working on improving the finer details.

Harvey White
 

I've managed to make the tabs and latches for the TM5000 series. I suspect that they could also be used on the TM500 series, but I haven't tried it yet.

Harvey

On 6/8/2020 9:46 PM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Some time ago (2-4 years) I tried making a mold of this piece so I could just pour plastic resin into the mold and be done with it. The problem I ran into was that center part was so thin it was a chore just to get the resin to fill in.  Because of the recess on both sides it had to be a 2 sided mold.  Add to that the edges also became a problem for that type of manufacture.  The resin was like water and still wouldn't flow thru all of the tight spaces. That's why they were originally injection molded.  Needless to say I gave up on that idea.

I found a similar obstacle with the pull tabs.  The shafts are too thin for the plastic to flow.  I may still retry that using aluminum for the shaft.

Vince - K8ZW.




On 06/08/2020 08:47 PM, Harvey White wrote:
I took one of the prototype front panels apart.  The actual plastic
panel itself has an inset both in the rear and the front. The front
panel of aluminum fits within the frame.  It has (at the least)
countersunk holes for the four mounting screws, a countersunk hole for
the latch screw, and a slot for the latch screw.

On the back is a similar recess that is for a panel (thin gauge) of
aluminum.  The front panel in these plugins, at least the ones I have,
is therefore three layers.  The back layer, the plastic, and the front
panel.

The problem with the back happens when you consider how 3D printing
works.  In this case, you have a rim and an inset on both top and
bottom.  The printer starts with the part of the plastic that touches
the base.  It prints that.  Now the rest of the panel is slightly, (say
1.64 mm or so) above the printer base.  The printer does not necessarily
provide support (it can), and extrudes a filament in the air from one
side to another.  This filament tends to sag.  When enough filament is
piled on top of the recently printed filament, you get a surface that's
flat enough that the remaining layers look flat.

What you end up with is something that looks good from the top (say the
front of the panel), and is stringy at the back.

It is possible to print the back with supports, but they will be very
thin and perhaps difficult to remove.  The supports are thin, and made
so that the amount of filament that is in free air is minimal (and you
can therefore print it without too much sag). This will have to be
removed before the panel is utilized. Haven't tried that yet.

Harvey


On 6/8/2020 8:23 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Hi Michael,

These look very good in the picture. Unfortunately I can't see much of
the detail and that detail matters a lot.
I will be able to make a better assessment when I can hold it in my
hand and get a sense of its mechanical properties.
The first real test will come when I make a plugin with them. For that
test it would be good to have one each from each different material
you used to make them.
The corner holes in the gray one look ragged.
Color isn't important. I don't think Tek panels were always the same
color. Either that or as they age their color changes in completely
different ways and I am sure some of their final color had to do with
the environment they were in, for example - smoking, exposed to
chemical vapors in the air, used outside or where they could be
exposed to sunlight.

Some I have are gray, some are a dirty brownish-gray, and most are the
sand color that Tek switched to for compatibility with the color of HP
instruments. When Tek switched from blue to the HP color it sparked an
uproar within the company.

Is the backside completely flat or does it also have the recessed area
in the entire middle area?

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 4:49 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TM 500 Front Panels

All:

Working on the TM 500 Blank Face plate that was being discussed recently.

I have now printed a couple of prototypes.  The THINGIVERSE item
listed above IS NOT dimensionally accurate. I have modified the STL
file to match the dimensions taken from the actual TEK part.

I have posted some pictures of a new original TEKTRONIX part and then
two 3D Printed prototypes.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=248278

Printed one part in white, since this material was already loaded in
the machine.  The gray one in the center, is a second iteration, with
some slight modifications. The tan/gray one to the left is the
original TEK Part.  Color is close enough for me to run with it.

The quality of the front of the printed part is good, the back side is
slightly rough, but this is not what you are looking at when the part
is installed.

The rim of the original part has some "draft angle" built into it, so
it appears slightly tapered toward the top of the rim.  It is not
possible to duplicate this draft angle with the FDM printing method,
so the sides of the panel are perpendicular.  This makes the rim of
the part a little wider, but it should still fit.

These are not Injection molding quality, but they are not expensive to
print.  My next task is to try to fit this to one of my plugins that
has the broken corners.

Comments and questions are welcomed.

More to come.

Vince Vielhaber
 

Thinking about it, I can probably get away with using a long #4 screw for the shaft. I'm not that concerned with the latch, the plugins fit in well enough to not need them and they're a pain to remove when the pull tab breaks.

Vince - K8ZW.

On 06/08/2020 10:18 PM, Harvey White wrote:
I've managed to make the tabs and latches for the TM5000 series. I
suspect that they could also be used on the TM500 series, but I haven't
tried it yet.

Harvey


On 6/8/2020 9:46 PM, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
Some time ago (2-4 years) I tried making a mold of this piece so I
could just pour plastic resin into the mold and be done with it. The
problem I ran into was that center part was so thin it was a chore
just to get the resin to fill in. Because of the recess on both sides
it had to be a 2 sided mold. Add to that the edges also became a
problem for that type of manufacture. The resin was like water and
still wouldn't flow thru all of the tight spaces. That's why they were
originally injection molded. Needless to say I gave up on that idea.

I found a similar obstacle with the pull tabs. The shafts are too
thin for the plastic to flow. I may still retry that using aluminum
for the shaft.

Vince - K8ZW.




On 06/08/2020 08:47 PM, Harvey White wrote:
I took one of the prototype front panels apart. The actual plastic
panel itself has an inset both in the rear and the front. The front
panel of aluminum fits within the frame. It has (at the least)
countersunk holes for the four mounting screws, a countersunk hole for
the latch screw, and a slot for the latch screw.

On the back is a similar recess that is for a panel (thin gauge) of
aluminum. The front panel in these plugins, at least the ones I have,
is therefore three layers. The back layer, the plastic, and the front
panel.

The problem with the back happens when you consider how 3D printing
works. In this case, you have a rim and an inset on both top and
bottom. The printer starts with the part of the plastic that touches
the base. It prints that. Now the rest of the panel is slightly, (say
1.64 mm or so) above the printer base. The printer does not necessarily
provide support (it can), and extrudes a filament in the air from one
side to another. This filament tends to sag. When enough filament is
piled on top of the recently printed filament, you get a surface that's
flat enough that the remaining layers look flat.

What you end up with is something that looks good from the top (say the
front of the panel), and is stringy at the back.

It is possible to print the back with supports, but they will be very
thin and perhaps difficult to remove. The supports are thin, and made
so that the amount of filament that is in free air is minimal (and you
can therefore print it without too much sag). This will have to be
removed before the panel is utilized. Haven't tried that yet.

Harvey


On 6/8/2020 8:23 PM, Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Hi Michael,

These look very good in the picture. Unfortunately I can't see much of
the detail and that detail matters a lot.
I will be able to make a better assessment when I can hold it in my
hand and get a sense of its mechanical properties.
The first real test will come when I make a plugin with them. For that
test it would be good to have one each from each different material
you used to make them.
The corner holes in the gray one look ragged.
Color isn't important. I don't think Tek panels were always the same
color. Either that or as they age their color changes in completely
different ways and I am sure some of their final color had to do with
the environment they were in, for example - smoking, exposed to
chemical vapors in the air, used outside or where they could be
exposed to sunlight.

Some I have are gray, some are a dirty brownish-gray, and most are the
sand color that Tek switched to for compatibility with the color of HP
instruments. When Tek switched from blue to the HP color it sparked an
uproar within the company.

Is the backside completely flat or does it also have the recessed area
in the entire middle area?

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Michael W. Lynch via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 4:49 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TM 500 Front Panels

All:

Working on the TM 500 Blank Face plate that was being discussed
recently.

I have now printed a couple of prototypes. The THINGIVERSE item
listed above IS NOT dimensionally accurate. I have modified the STL
file to match the dimensions taken from the actual TEK part.

I have posted some pictures of a new original TEKTRONIX part and then
two 3D Printed prototypes.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=248278

Printed one part in white, since this material was already loaded in
the machine. The gray one in the center, is a second iteration, with
some slight modifications. The tan/gray one to the left is the
original TEK Part. Color is close enough for me to run with it.

The quality of the front of the printed part is good, the back side is
slightly rough, but this is not what you are looking at when the part
is installed.

The rim of the original part has some "draft angle" built into it, so
it appears slightly tapered toward the top of the rim. It is not
possible to duplicate this draft angle with the FDM printing method,
so the sides of the panel are perpendicular. This makes the rim of
the part a little wider, but it should still fit.

These are not Injection molding quality, but they are not expensive to
print. My next task is to try to fit this to one of my plugins that
has the broken corners.

Comments and questions are welcomed.

More to come.

John Ferguson
 

Hi Michael,

What are you using for layer height?  Are you using PETG?

I suppose drawings for the hole locations are unavailable, but....

FWIW, I've had great success 3d printing jigs for drilling holes in locations specified in drawings where I need to do a couple of sets and doing it on the mill for each one would take too long. Generally, I set the diameter on the 3D model to drill diameter. When it prints, hole is slightly smaller which I clean out with the proper sized drill. I make sleeves on the jig, the better to align the bit and do use a drill press.

I also wondered if the design for these parts would work if the center was left mostly open, say using 3/8 inch rim around center which would be enough to trap this part between the face plate and whatever is behind.

Thanks for giving this project the care you are.

john