Topics

Tek 585


Urs Suter <urs-j.suter@...>
 

Hello,
I am new in this group. I have bought an Tektronix 585A oscilloscope from the Swiss army. The condition is after 35 years storage in a air-conditioned fortress like ex works. It is a very good instrument with the finest beam I ever saw. It has only one disadvantage: It has no automatic position in the trigger system. When ever you use the instrument, you have to set the Stability knob to a free running position that you can see the basic line on the screen. After you can see the unsynchronised signal on the screen, you have to find a suitable trigger position by turning the Stability knob. Can anybody of the former Tektronix people tell me why Tektronix didn't take care for an AUTOMATIC TRIGGER position?

Many thanks for an answer

Urs


candmmiles6102@...
 

Hi,
What plug ins for the 585A do you have? Prices? Shipped from where?

Thanks.
Chuck


Arnoud van der Wel <A.P.vanderWel@...>
 

Hi,

I have a 585A too, bought it more for the nice (exotic!) inside than for the
nice outside... And I asked myself exactly the same question you are asking
yourself. In this way, it is not a fun scope to use. :( Maybe that is why
all the 585A's 'we' find are in such excellent condition... :)

Regards,

Arnoud.


Phil (VA3UX) <phil@...>
 

I'm not sure who you were directing this message to Chuck, but I do have a type 82 plug-in that may be surplus to my needs. Possibly a manual for the 585 and the 82 too, but I'd have to look.

Phil

At 06:17 PM 7/8/2001 -0400, you wrote:
Hi,
What plug ins for the 585A do you have? Prices? Shipped from where?

Thanks.
Chuck





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Miroslav Pokorni <mpokorni@...>
 

I am not a former Tek employee, just an old user of Tek scopes, but I will
take a stub at your question.

Tektronix entered (not created) oscilloscope market; in that market
synchronized (as opposed to triggered, non-free running) time base was the
only thing. If you ever used synchronized free running time base you would
know how ungainly beast that is; and if you did not, you will live longer
because you were spared the stress of copping with free running bases.

When Tek entered the market, besides circuit improvements in vertical
amplifier, their claim to fame was 'triggered time base', a single shot
sweep for each trigger. I do not remember all details any more, but I
believe that stability control was an adjustment of 'dead time' after sweep,
before the trigger is armed again, something that we call 'hold-off time' in
these days. In one extreme position that 'stability control' made the base
self-oscillate.

What we now know as 'automatic trigger' is an arrangement of a timer that
gets started after hold-off time and if there is no trigger to start time
base (and stop this timer), time base gets triggered at the time-out of this
auxiliary timer. This arrangement is tantamount to a free running base, only
difference is that a flick of a switch turns a free running base into a
triggered one. Can you imagine reaction of Tek founder to a proposal to turn
Tek distinction in marketplace into an emulator of free running time bases?
Not that I know of any users asking for it, either. We were all happy with
this new time base, used 'stability control' to get the beam, adjusted
things to sync signal and went on about work. People are quite creatures of
habit: I remember missing 'stability control' when I switched from 500
Series to 465.


Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

-----Original Message-----
From: Urs Suter [mailto:urs-j.suter@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:14 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Tek 585

Hello,
I am new in this group. I have bought an Tektronix 585A
oscilloscope from the Swiss army. The condition is after 35 years storage in
a air-conditioned fortress like ex works. It is a very good instrument with
the finest beam I ever saw. It has only one disadvantage: It has no
automatic position in the trigger system. When ever you use the instrument,
you have to set the Stability knob to a free running position that you can
see the basic line on the screen. After you can see the unsynchronised
signal on the screen, you have to find a suitable trigger position by
turning the Stability knob. Can anybody of the former Tektronix people tell
me why Tektronix didn't take care for an AUTOMATIC TRIGGER position?

Many thanks for an answer

Urs





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Stan or Patricia Griffiths <w7ni@...>
 

Urs Suter wrote:

Hello,
I am new in this group. I have bought an Tektronix 585A oscilloscope from the Swiss army. The condition is after 35 years storage in a air-conditioned fortress like ex works. It is a very good instrument with the finest beam I ever saw. It has only one disadvantage: It has no automatic position in the trigger system. When ever you use the instrument, you have to set the Stability knob to a free running position that you can see the basic line on the screen. After you can see the unsynchronised signal on the screen, you have to find a suitable trigger position by turning the Stability knob. Can anybody of the former Tektronix people tell me why Tektronix didn't take care for an AUTOMATIC TRIGGER position?

Many thanks for an answer

Urs
Hello Urs,

My personal opinion, after working at Tek for 26+ years, is that Tek just got tired of modifying the 585 and that is one modification they never got around to doing. The 585, which later became to 585A, is one of the most modified instruments Tek ever built. Maybe only the 529 has had more modifications than the 585/A.

Stan
w7ni@...


Stan or Patricia Griffiths <w7ni@...>
 

There aren't a whole lot of plugins ever specifically built for the 585A.
Really, just the 82 and the 86. The 84 is a test plugin for the 580 series,
also known as the 067-0523-00. The type 81A Adapter was designed to allow
plugging in "Letter Series" plugins into a 585A or 581A. The earlier type 81
Adapter could be used for this as well. The Type 80 and P80 Probe were for
use with early 581's and 585's without the "standardized vertical amplifier"
modification.

I acquired quite a bunch of 585A's and RM585A's in a huge estate that I
bought. I am sure some of this stuff will be available from me at some time
in the future but right now I am buried under it and still have to bring 250
instruments home from the estate yet. The estate is about 160 miles from my
house . . .

Stan
w7ni@...

candmmiles6102@... wrote:

Hi,
What plug ins for the 585A do you have? Prices? Shipped from where?

Thanks.
Chuck



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TekScopes-unsubscribe@...



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Urs Suter <urs-j.suter@...>
 

Hello Miroslav
Excuse me, there must be a misunderstanding. I do not criticize the "Trigger Stability" control of the Tek scopes, I am just wondering why the 585 scope has no "Automatic Trigger" position. Any other scope of that generation (perhaps the 511 excepted) had this feature. It presents a visible trace even without a trigger signal and allows measurements of uncritical periodic signals without any further manipulations. In my opinion, there is no technical or mental connection to the early method of a synchronizable, free running sweep (e.g. Dumont).

Regards

Urs

----- Original Message -----
From: Miroslav Pokorni
To: 'TekScopes@...'
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Tek 585


I am not a former Tek employee, just an old user of Tek scopes, but I will
take a stub at your question.

Tektronix entered (not created) oscilloscope market; in that market
synchronized (as opposed to triggered, non-free running) time base was the
only thing. If you ever used synchronized free running time base you would
know how ungainly beast that is; and if you did not, you will live longer
because you were spared the stress of copping with free running bases.

When Tek entered the market, besides circuit improvements in vertical
amplifier, their claim to fame was 'triggered time base', a single shot
sweep for each trigger. I do not remember all details any more, but I
believe that stability control was an adjustment of 'dead time' after sweep,
before the trigger is armed again, something that we call 'hold-off time' in
these days. In one extreme position that 'stability control' made the base
self-oscillate.

What we now know as 'automatic trigger' is an arrangement of a timer that
gets started after hold-off time and if there is no trigger to start time
base (and stop this timer), time base gets triggered at the time-out of this
auxiliary timer. This arrangement is tantamount to a free running base, only
difference is that a flick of a switch turns a free running base into a
triggered one. Can you imagine reaction of Tek founder to a proposal to turn
Tek distinction in marketplace into an emulator of free running time bases?
Not that I know of any users asking for it, either. We were all happy with
this new time base, used 'stability control' to get the beam, adjusted
things to sync signal and went on about work. People are quite creatures of
habit: I remember missing 'stability control' when I switched from 500
Series to 465.


Regards

Miroslav Pokorni



-----Original Message-----
From: Urs Suter [mailto:urs-j.suter@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:14 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Tek 585

Hello,
I am new in this group. I have bought an Tektronix 585A
oscilloscope from the Swiss army. The condition is after 35 years storage in
a air-conditioned fortress like ex works. It is a very good instrument with
the finest beam I ever saw. It has only one disadvantage: It has no
automatic position in the trigger system. When ever you use the instrument,
you have to set the Stability knob to a free running position that you can
see the basic line on the screen. After you can see the unsynchronised
signal on the screen, you have to find a suitable trigger position by
turning the Stability knob. Can anybody of the former Tektronix people tell
me why Tektronix didn't take care for an AUTOMATIC TRIGGER position?

Many thanks for an answer

Urs





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Miroslav Pokorni <mpokorni@...>
 

Dear Urs:

You certainly were not criticizing, but I was not trying to say that. I
guess, it is a bona fide misunderstanding. I was trying to lend historical
perspective, that comes from, err... advanced age, but if you know about
Dumont, you have enough historical angle, no need for my meddling.

Regards

Miroslav Pokorni

-----Original Message-----
From: Urs Suter [mailto:urs-j.suter@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 9:07 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 585

Hello Miroslav
Excuse me, there must be a misunderstanding. I do not
criticize the "Trigger Stability" control of the Tek scopes, I am just
wondering why the 585 scope has no "Automatic Trigger" position. Any other
scope of that generation (perhaps the 511 excepted) had this feature. It
presents a visible trace even without a trigger signal and allows
measurements of uncritical periodic signals without any further
manipulations. In my opinion, there is no technical or mental connection to
the early method of a synchronizable, free running sweep (e.g. Dumont).

Regards

Urs

----- Original Message -----
From: Miroslav Pokorni
To: 'TekScopes@...'
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Tek 585


I am not a former Tek employee, just an old user of Tek
scopes, but I will
take a stub at your question.

Tektronix entered (not created) oscilloscope market; in
that market
synchronized (as opposed to triggered, non-free running)
time base was the
only thing. If you ever used synchronized free running
time base you would
know how ungainly beast that is; and if you did not, you
will live longer
because you were spared the stress of copping with free
running bases.

When Tek entered the market, besides circuit improvements
in vertical
amplifier, their claim to fame was 'triggered time base',
a single shot
sweep for each trigger. I do not remember all details any
more, but I
believe that stability control was an adjustment of 'dead
time' after sweep,
before the trigger is armed again, something that we call
'hold-off time' in
these days. In one extreme position that 'stability
control' made the base
self-oscillate.

What we now know as 'automatic trigger' is an arrangement
of a timer that
gets started after hold-off time and if there is no
trigger to start time
base (and stop this timer), time base gets triggered at
the time-out of this
auxiliary timer. This arrangement is tantamount to a free
running base, only
difference is that a flick of a switch turns a free
running base into a
triggered one. Can you imagine reaction of Tek founder to
a proposal to turn
Tek distinction in marketplace into an emulator of free
running time bases?
Not that I know of any users asking for it, either. We
were all happy with
this new time base, used 'stability control' to get the
beam, adjusted
things to sync signal and went on about work. People are
quite creatures of
habit: I remember missing 'stability control' when I
switched from 500
Series to 465.


Regards

Miroslav Pokorni



-----Original Message-----
From: Urs Suter [mailto:urs-j.suter@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 7:14 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Tek 585

Hello,
I am new in this group. I have bought an Tektronix 585A
oscilloscope from the Swiss army. The condition is after
35 years storage in
a air-conditioned fortress like ex works. It is a very
good instrument with
the finest beam I ever saw. It has only one disadvantage:
It has no
automatic position in the trigger system. When ever you
use the instrument,
you have to set the Stability knob to a free running
position that you can
see the basic line on the screen. After you can see the
unsynchronised
signal on the screen, you have to find a suitable trigger
position by
turning the Stability knob. Can anybody of the former
Tektronix people tell
me why Tektronix didn't take care for an AUTOMATIC TRIGGER
position?

Many thanks for an answer

Urs





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donlcramer@...
 

Regarding Mr. Pokomi's comment "...I was just trying to lend historical
perspective...", I for one very much enjoy that kind of discussion.

Keep up the good work all. Especially to Dean and Stan who are frequent
contributors. It's much appreciated!

Best Rgds,

Don