Smoke damage 7704A


Thomas Voshell
 

I have a 7704A that was damaged in a house fire. The scope was in a closet upstairs and everything outside of the closet was either melted or burned. There is significant smoke residue on the outside of the covers and possibly some overspray from fire hoses. I have not yet taken the covers off; no knobs frame plastics are melted on mainframe or plug-ins which look externally smoked up. (7a18, 7a26, 7b50, 7b51). I believe powering it up would be foolhardy as carbon conducts. My inclination is to completely disassemble the frame and wash with water the electronics and allow to air dry. Due to age I am worried about old plastic flat cable connectors and the acquisition to display unit connector. The CRT connector and the HVPS also worry me.

Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/insights/experience WRT this situation?

Thanks,
TomV


Bill (Doc) Courtright
 

Watching. I had a similar experience. Gear in closet but lots of smoke and water damage to all most all my 5K and 7K PI's.Luckily the 7K mainframes were not in the building. Instead my primary 5403 was soaked when the drop ceiling fell from the water.   After a year or so of setting in a warm house I carefully powered it up and with some control and switch cleaning has been fine. Lucky I guess. Cannot say how well calibrated it is but my limited references indicated that it was good enough.   So good luck. I will never get around  to going over the many PI's that I have as severe Arthritis has set in and working small controls is near impossible.   Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Voshell <tvoshell@cableone.net>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 3:18 pm
Subject: [TekScopes] Smoke damage 7704A

I have a 7704A that was damaged in a house fire.  The scope was in a closet upstairs and everything outside of the closet was either melted or burned.  There is significant smoke residue on the outside of the covers and possibly some overspray from fire hoses.  I have not yet taken the covers off; no knobs frame plastics are melted on mainframe or plug-ins which look externally smoked up. (7a18, 7a26, 7b50, 7b51). I believe powering it up would be foolhardy as carbon conducts. My inclination is to completely disassemble the frame and wash with water the electronics and allow to air dry.  Due to age I am worried about old plastic flat cable connectors and the acquisition to display unit connector.  The CRT connector and the HVPS also worry me.

Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/insights/experience WRT this situation?

Thanks,
TomV


Gary Robert Bosworth
 

If you ever sell any of this, please warn buyers of the history.

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 13:20 Bill (Doc) Courtright via groups.io <doxemf=
aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Watching. I had a similar experience. Gear in closet but lots of smoke and
water damage to all most all my 5K and 7K PI's.Luckily the 7K mainframes
were not in the building. Instead my primary 5403 was soaked when the drop
ceiling fell from the water. After a year or so of setting in a warm
house I carefully powered it up and with some control and switch cleaning
has been fine. Lucky I guess. Cannot say how well calibrated it is but my
limited references indicated that it was good enough. So good luck. I
will never get around to going over the many PI's that I have as severe
Arthritis has set in and working small controls is near impossible. Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Voshell <tvoshell@cableone.net>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 3:18 pm
Subject: [TekScopes] Smoke damage 7704A

I have a 7704A that was damaged in a house fire. The scope was in a
closet upstairs and everything outside of the closet was either melted or
burned. There is significant smoke residue on the outside of the covers
and possibly some overspray from fire hoses. I have not yet taken the
covers off; no knobs frame plastics are melted on mainframe or plug-ins
which look externally smoked up. (7a18, 7a26, 7b50, 7b51). I believe
powering it up would be foolhardy as carbon conducts. My inclination is to
completely disassemble the frame and wash with water the electronics and
allow to air dry. Due to age I am worried about old plastic flat cable
connectors and the acquisition to display unit connector. The CRT
connector and the HVPS also worry me.

Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/insights/experience WRT this
situation?

Thanks,
TomV











greenboxmaven
 

I have restored many items that were exposed to smoke (usually not from a building fire!), heat, water, and dirt. In all cases, a careful bath and scrub followed by a good drying out was done, and the vast majority of times, the rig worked fine. If it didn't, the cause usually had little to do with the exposure and it was bad all along. It takes patience to do a good restoration, but if you have time, it is very rewarding. In years past, I had very little money but lots of time, and by searching for items exposed to bad events, was able to have many things I could never have afforded. The learning and satisfaction were invaluable. I had an R-390 receiver and a model 28 Teletype fifty years ago for  a total of about $60.00- a great bargain in those times- because I would take the time and do the work.

   Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 13:20 Bill (Doc) Courtright via groups.io <doxemf=
aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Watching. I had a similar experience. Gear in closet but lots of smoke and
water damage to all most all my 5K and 7K PI's.Luckily the 7K mainframes
were not in the building. Instead my primary 5403 was soaked when the drop
ceiling fell from the water. After a year or so of setting in a warm
house I carefully powered it up and with some control and switch cleaning
has been fine. Lucky I guess. Cannot say how well calibrated it is but my
limited references indicated that it was good enough. So good luck. I
will never get around to going over the many PI's that I have as severe
Arthritis has set in and working small controls is near impossible. Bill



-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Voshell <tvoshell@cableone.net>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 3:18 pm
Subject: [TekScopes] Smoke damage 7704A

I have a 7704A that was damaged in a house fire. The scope was in a
closet upstairs and everything outside of the closet was either melted or
burned. There is significant smoke residue on the outside of the covers
and possibly some overspray from fire hoses. I have not yet taken the
covers off; no knobs frame plastics are melted on mainframe or plug-ins
which look externally smoked up. (7a18, 7a26, 7b50, 7b51). I believe
powering it up would be foolhardy as carbon conducts. My inclination is to
completely disassemble the frame and wash with water the electronics and
allow to air dry. Due to age I am worried about old plastic flat cable
connectors and the acquisition to display unit connector. The CRT
connector and the HVPS also worry me.

Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/insights/experience WRT this
situation?

Thanks,
TomV












Renée
 

Hi Tom-
i have had to do this numerous times on pieces of equipment involved in fire/smoke over the years- mostly 50kv and 500kv supplies. took them apart, 409 ( had an oily residue on a few)  or something that dissolves the carbon/smoke residue, scrub with brush if at all possible, hose it down, repeat as needed. finally dunk/ rinse it in IPA and blow it off, repeat couple of times .  after a good air dry like 24 hrs, then put it in an oven for several hours ( overnight) between 100 and 150 F. reassemble an have had full recovery....some of theses were really bad. in fact they were black!..you could measure the resistance across the boards!
I always worried about arcing in HV xformers but cleaning worked.... In fact i know a couple are still working just fine after 10 years.
try to avoid getting too much water/liquid in the xformers if possible and no hi pressure spray..most everything else seems to hold up ok.... now faceplates/lettering your mileage will vary- test first.
I have to rebuild the stuff anyway..so I always figured what do I have to loose?
Hope this helps
Renée

On 7/14/21 12:18 PM, Thomas Voshell wrote:
I have a 7704A that was damaged in a house fire. The scope was in a closet upstairs and everything outside of the closet was either melted or burned. There is significant smoke residue on the outside of the covers and possibly some overspray from fire hoses. I have not yet taken the covers off; no knobs frame plastics are melted on mainframe or plug-ins which look externally smoked up. (7a18, 7a26, 7b50, 7b51). I believe powering it up would be foolhardy as carbon conducts. My inclination is to completely disassemble the frame and wash with water the electronics and allow to air dry. Due to age I am worried about old plastic flat cable connectors and the acquisition to display unit connector. The CRT connector and the HVPS also worry me.

Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/insights/experience WRT this situation?

Thanks,
TomV




-
 

I can't say regarding Tek gear but I have an HP-67 that went through a
house fire. It was in it's original plastic box and about 2 inches in one
corner of it melted and one small corner of the HP-67 melted but it still
works fine.

My advice on the scope is to take the covers off and check the inside.
If you don't see any residue I would suggest going ahead and power it up.
But if it was me, I would bring it up on a variac and watch the input
current, even if it hadn't been through a house fire.

Also I would suggest not allowing it to air dry but dry it with a hair
dryer or something similar that will dry it more quickly and more
thoroughly. Also after washing I would also rinse with distilled water to
wash away any traces of minerals from the wash water and then dry.

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 3:18 PM Thomas Voshell <tvoshell@cableone.net>
wrote:

I have a 7704A that was damaged in a house fire. The scope was in a
closet upstairs and everything outside of the closet was either melted or
burned. There is significant smoke residue on the outside of the covers
and possibly some overspray from fire hoses. I have not yet taken the
covers off; no knobs frame plastics are melted on mainframe or plug-ins
which look externally smoked up. (7a18, 7a26, 7b50, 7b51). I believe
powering it up would be foolhardy as carbon conducts. My inclination is to
completely disassemble the frame and wash with water the electronics and
allow to air dry. Due to age I am worried about old plastic flat cable
connectors and the acquisition to display unit connector. The CRT
connector and the HVPS also worry me.

Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/insights/experience WRT this
situation?

Thanks,
TomV






Thomas Voshell
 

Hi Gary,

I absolutely agree. Actually, I bought a VW once upon a time that had been in a flood. It had multiple issues including ECU and sensor problems.
If I were to sell this ‘scope, its history and the charred manual would go with it.

—TomV


Thomas Voshell
 

Hi Renée,

This sounds really good. Actually I have recovered a un-opened gallon of 409 from the garage which was largely intact. Too bad the ‘scope wasn’t stored there. There is a lot of work to do and I am not sure when I will be able to tackle this. I may try to do the plug-ins first since they may be the least mechanically challenging.

Thanks,
TomV


Ed Breya
 

I agree with trying more conventional (non-ionic surfactant) cleaners first, and possibly limonene (citrus) - based cleaners. If it turns out that you need to up the intensity, you may want to look at good old TSP (trisodium phosphate) solution. This is a very alkaline solvent/detergent, commonly used for general rough cleaning, and in hot-tanks for washing oils, grease, and grime out of car parts, and creosote removal like in wood stove glass cleaners. It's not as serious as lye, but can do the same sort of damage if not thoroughly flushed out of metal (especially aluminum) systems afterward.

Ed


Tom Norman
 

Tek used something called Kellite in their wash station. Tekwiki has an article about it in it's maintenance section under "cleaning", and I think there are threads on TekScopes as well. Kellite, seems to be no longer available, and I've not found much information about it, except that it may have been a buffered phosphate type cleaner (no chemist here, so be kind!). I remembered using Alconox in a couple of chem classes for cleanup, and it is phosphate based as well. I've used it to clean two 500 series plugins and a 575 at this point and it worked very well, and doesn't seem as harsh as straight TSP but that is a subjective evaluation (TSP absolutely lights my hands up, the Alconox didn't). I use the same type of siphon gun as Tek, and follow up the Alconox with DI water, and then IPA through the siphon gun. I think the same cautions Ed recommends with respect to it being potentially corrosive to aluminum if not thoroughly rinsed are appropriate. Initial cost of a four pound carton is a bit steep, but it will last you forever.

Tom


Torch
 

One of the most effective cleaners for removing smoke residue and smell from the exterior is a dilute solution of Tri-sodium Phosphate (TSP) in water. Available in most hardware stores, usually in the paint department. Wear gloves -- it will dehydrate your hands. Wipe on, wipe off, then wipe again with a clean cloth wetted with plain water. Start at the top and work down.

Smoke in a house fire will follow air movement. There is a very good chance that none entered the case itself if it was not hit by water during suppression. Of course, if it got wet, the water can carry residue into the interior. Rinsing with pure (distilled) water is usually the best thing to use inside electronics. Allow to dry thoroughly, preferably with a fan blowing dry air over all surfaces for a few days to be sure.

(Lessons learned from 34 years of firefighting experience)


greenboxmaven
 

Trisodium phosphate is indeed a good cleaner. It can be difficult to obtain directly in many places because it is also a powerful fertilizer and causes water pollution if it is dumped down the sewer. Fortunately, it can be had via internet suppliers.  For smoke damage that doesn't come from building fires, cleaners that contain ammonia are quite effective in removing the residue and stench. I have a 555 that I couldn't bring into the house because it stunk so badly. No question as to why the previous owner was SK! I fear a totally new kind of damage as addicts try using vaporizers, their exhaust doesn't stink, but it contains a great deal of polyethylene glycol mist. I can imagine it will affect plastics, and it draws moisture from the air. Who knows what leakage paths will be created. Considering the indoor pollution that was constant in repair shops and broadcast stations decades ago, and the cooling fans circulating it through everything, Tektronix gear stood up to it very well.

    Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 7/15/21 11:46, Torch wrote:
One of the most effective cleaners for removing smoke residue and smell from the exterior is a dilute solution of Tri-sodium Phosphate (TSP) in water. Available in most hardware stores, usually in the paint department. Wear gloves -- it will dehydrate your hands. Wipe on, wipe off, then wipe again with a clean cloth wetted with plain water. Start at the top and work down.

Smoke in a house fire will follow air movement. There is a very good chance that none entered the case itself if it was not hit by water during suppression. Of course, if it got wet, the water can carry residue into the interior. Rinsing with pure (distilled) water is usually the best thing to use inside electronics. Allow to dry thoroughly, preferably with a fan blowing dry air over all surfaces for a few days to be sure.

(Lessons learned from 34 years of firefighting experience)




Roy Thistle
 

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 07:16 PM, - wrote:


But if it was me, I would bring it up on a variac
What happens when you bring the 7704's SMPS up on a variac? Is it going to be a good happening?
What happens when you bring up and old byzantine design SMPS up on a variac?

--
Roy Thistle


Roy Thistle
 

TSP... available at any painter's (not artist... or maybe not artists) jobber/supplier.
TSP available at BLowes, Home Despot. N.A. wide.
Should you use a very powerful de-greaser on a something that has no grease on it?
Not only that the phosphate attacks/etches, at least, glass,aluminium, and paint.
Roy Thistle


Roy Thistle
 

On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 07:48 AM, Tom Norman wrote:


Alconox
It's just a fancy detergent... it has an effective surfactant (wetting agent), and works well with hard/er water. Less harsh than TSP (although it uses that) because of the TSPP buffer in it.
Save your money... a mild solution of dish detergent (detergent is not soap, just because it's used like soap) and distilled water (or softened water) is just as good for safe cleaning. Use the more specialised, and possibly harsher stuff, if'n you have to.

--
Roy Thistle


Roy Thistle
 

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:33 PM, Ed Breya wrote:


possibly limonene
It doesn't dissolve in water... it's a terpine oil... dissolves in alcohols (among other things.)
It also "eventually?" attacks brass, copper, cast iron, rubber, silicone... and some plastics... but, were mainly talking about not storing the pure oil in containers made of those.
I don't know what adding a few drops of limonene to some emulsifier does in a detergent water solution... beyond making you green, smelling fruity clean, and fleecing one of even more money.

--
Roy Thistle


Gordon Smith
 

Hi All,
For cigarette smoke smell and tar removal, I can most enthusiastically recommend Simple Green. My dearly departed wife was a 2 pack a day smoker (Yep, the smoking was the root cause of her passing away) and left our home a smokey mess. After finding out I was allergic to smoke tar (I have always been a non-smoker and having smoke allergies can happen to people who live with smokers or are around tobacco products) I have been slowly decontaminating the home. I have seen smoke/tar covered items literally drip off the smoke/tar from their surfaces after being sprayed with Simple Green. It works far better than soap and water. In the case of electronics, I believe that Simple Green can be slightly corrosive to the components if left on, so a liberal rinse with water and DI water afterwards with internal pots protected from the Simple Green I think would be called for. YMMV. Gordon

On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 10:13 AM, greenboxmaven wrote:

Trisodium phosphate is indeed a good cleaner. It can be difficult to


greenboxmaven
 

I use Simple Green all the time when giving a rig a bath. It doesn't always get rid of tobacco stench, but if followed by another rinse with ammonia everything smells great. I collect water from my dehumidifier or central air conditioner, filter it, and use it for a final rinse. After removing motors, loudspeakers, and meters, I have never damaged anything in forty years of cleaning rigs this way. I dry everything with several hours in a hotbox heated with a blow dryer blowing hot air through.

    Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 7/15/21 15:10, Gordon Smith wrote:
Hi All,
For cigarette smoke smell and tar removal, I can most enthusiastically recommend Simple Green. My dearly departed wife was a 2 pack a day smoker (Yep, the smoking was the root cause of her passing away) and left our home a smokey mess. After finding out I was allergic to smoke tar (I have always been a non-smoker and having smoke allergies can happen to people who live with smokers or are around tobacco products) I have been slowly decontaminating the home. I have seen smoke/tar covered items literally drip off the smoke/tar from their surfaces after being sprayed with Simple Green. It works far better than soap and water. In the case of electronics, I believe that Simple Green can be slightly corrosive to the components if left on, so a liberal rinse with water and DI water afterwards with internal pots protected from the Simple Green I think would be called for. YMMV. Gordon

On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 10:13 AM, greenboxmaven wrote:
Trisodium phosphate is indeed a good cleaner. It can be difficult to


Roy Thistle
 

On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 07:48 AM, Tom Norman wrote:


Tek used something called Kellite in their wash station
Nope.
It was Kelite (not Kellite)... lot's of stuff pops up including the logo "Scientific Cleaning Through PH Control."
Anyway... it was just a buffered alkaline detergent... nothing special.

--
Roy Thistle


Jim Ford
 

My deepest condolences on your loss, Gordon.   It's hard enough to have to put a dog to sleep, as we did last weekend, but to lose your wife wow, I can only imagine!  Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.       Jim Ford Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: Gordon Smith <gfsmith@cox.net> Date: 7/15/21 12:10 PM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Smoke damage 7704A Hi All,For cigarette smoke smell and tar removal, I can most enthusiastically recommend Simple Green. My dearly departed wife was a 2 pack a day smoker (Yep, the smoking was the root cause of her passing away) and left our home a smokey mess. After finding out I was allergic to smoke tar (I have always been a non-smoker and having smoke allergies can happen to people who live with smokers or are around tobacco products) I have been slowly decontaminating the home. I have seen smoke/tar covered items literally drip off the smoke/tar from their surfaces after being sprayed with Simple Green. It works far better than soap and water. In the case of electronics, I believe that Simple Green can be slightly corrosive to the components if left on, so a liberal rinse with water and DI water afterwards with internal pots protected from the Simple Green I think would be called for. YMMV. GordonOn Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 10:13 AM, greenboxmaven wrote:>> Trisodium phosphate is indeed a good cleaner. It can be difficult to