Topics

Right to Repair - Re: [TekScopes] Digital scope with CRT


toby@...
 

On 2020-08-26 4:39 p.m., David C. Partridge wrote:
Please post their email here.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Ford
Sent: 26 August 2020 04:29
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Digital scope with CRT

Funny you should mention it, Thomas; the IEEE just today sent me a message about the Right to Repair bill. Yep, sounds like a good idea to me. Don't force us to pay through the nose for "repair" services from the manufacturers and don't keep schematics and other documentation secret from us consumers. I can forward the email from the IEEE if you like.
Definitely an issue on which aggressive and comprehensive action is
needed, and the offenders (such as Apple) suffer real consequences.

--Toby





Bill Riches
 

And John Deere.
73,
Bill, WA2DVU

On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 05:31:38 PM EDT, <toby@...> wrote:

On 2020-08-26 4:39 p.m., David C. Partridge wrote:
Please post their email here.

David

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Ford
Sent: 26 August 2020 04:29
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Digital scope with CRT

Funny you should mention it, Thomas; the IEEE just today sent me a message about the Right to Repair bill.  Yep, sounds like a good idea to me.  Don't force us to pay through the nose for "repair" services from the manufacturers and don't keep schematics and other documentation secret from us consumers.  I can forward the email from the IEEE if you like.
Definitely an issue on which aggressive and comprehensive action is
needed, and the offenders (such as Apple) suffer real consequences.

--Toby





John Griessen
 

On 8/26/20 4:39 PM, Bill Riches via groups.io wrote:
And John Deere.
Yes, especially now that many "real world economics" farming tractors follow position commands from "the cloud"
and could be obsoleted by a software update lack when $70k worth of mechanical bits are still firing on all cylinders.


Michael W. Lynch
 

Right to repair is opposed by Apple, John Deere and hundreds of others. Their "cash cow" is gouging customers for "repairs" by restricting the availability of service information and parts. My father in law runs John Deere equipment and is constantly being screwed for that green paint that they spray on almost every part. A $10.00 SKF of Timken bearing, painted JD Green magically costs $150-$200 at the dealer; same part in a JD Box! As Mr. Griessen stated, the Firmware and Software are even more vulnerable, as there is no alternative. This is an area where the Governments should act and they do not, since these companies have powerful lobbies across the world.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


greenboxmaven
 

Even with repair manuals and schematics, there was another obstacle years ago-parts. I'm not speaking of unique Tektronix built parts, but rather condensers and resistors, tubes, transistors and connectors. In the place and time I spent my youth, there was a constant struggle for hobbyists and experimenters to buy basic components from suppliers. They tried to sell only to commercial businesses, angering a whole generation who were delighted when they went out of business years later. I especially enjoy restoring Tektronix and products of the other major instrument and scope builder because they were built with excellence and pride, and prospered by the merit of their work rather than entrapment.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 8/26/20 9:14 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io wrote:
Right to repair is opposed by Apple, John Deere and hundreds of others. Their "cash cow" is gouging customers for "repairs" by restricting the availability of service information and parts. My father in law runs John Deere equipment and is constantly being screwed for that green paint that they spray on almost every part. A $10.00 SKF of Timken bearing, painted JD Green magically costs $150-$200 at the dealer; same part in a JD Box! As Mr. Griessen stated, the Firmware and Software are even more vulnerable, as there is no alternative. This is an area where the Governments should act and they do not, since these companies have powerful lobbies across the world.


Shirley Dulcey KE1L
 

Electronics distributors have gotten a lot more friendly to small customers
over the years. Digi-Key and Mouser pioneered it, catering to hams and
hobbyists from the get-go. That turned out to be a great business model for
them, because some of those people later went on to work in the industry
and continued to order from the companies they knew and loved.

The second thing that helped the change along was the ubiquitous adoption
of credit cards. In the olden daisies a big obstacle to ordering from most
distributors (other than Digi-Key and Mouser, and Lafayette when it was
still around) was the need to have an account. Now that everybody has
credit cards, they have become the normal way for small to medium-ish
companies to order; it's too much trouble to set up an account and go
through the bank investigations. A typical startup doesn't even bother to
apply until it starts making production orders, assuming it ever does
rather than outsourcing manufacturing.

Finally, there was the internet. Online ordering lowered the cost of
handling orders a lot;. You don't have to pay somebody to answer the phone
or transcribe paper order forms, and the error rate dropped because of
eliminating an intermediate step.

At this point, our orders really aren't any different from a small company
ordering parts for a prototype, and we're no more trouble to process.
They're ordering parts to make somewhere between one and five of something,
and so are we. Digi-Key and Mouser are still there to take our orders, and
other distributors like Arrow have made a move into the small-order game.
There are still a few things that are hard to order because they are only
handled by old-school distributors that are unfriendly to us, but those
areas are shrinking.

I'm not sure the situation has changed as dramatically in fields other than
electronics. Somebody here may know.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 10:13 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy=
verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Even with repair manuals and schematics, there was another obstacle
years ago-parts. I'm not speaking of unique Tektronix built parts, but
rather condensers and resistors, tubes, transistors and connectors. In
the place and time I spent my youth, there was a constant struggle for
hobbyists and experimenters to buy basic components from suppliers. They
tried to sell only to commercial businesses, angering a whole generation
who were delighted when they went out of business years later. I
especially enjoy restoring Tektronix and products of the other major
instrument and scope builder because they were built with excellence and
pride, and prospered by the merit of their work rather than entrapment.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 8/26/20 9:14 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io wrote:
Right to repair is opposed by Apple, John Deere and hundreds of others.
Their "cash cow" is gouging customers for "repairs" by restricting the
availability of service information and parts. My father in law runs John
Deere equipment and is constantly being screwed for that green paint that
they spray on almost every part. A $10.00 SKF of Timken bearing, painted
JD Green magically costs $150-$200 at the dealer; same part in a JD Box!
As Mr. Griessen stated, the Firmware and Software are even more vulnerable,
as there is no alternative. This is an area where the Governments should
act and they do not, since these companies have powerful lobbies across the
world.




Frank DuVal
 

Hmm, never saw this.

We had several jobbers around Richmond to buy parts from. Then there was Lafayette, Allied, and Poly Packs, plus everyone in the QST/73/Electronics Illustrated/Popular Electronics for mail order.

Frank DuVal, WA4CWM

On 8/26/2020 10:10 PM, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:
Even with repair manuals and schematics, there was another obstacle years ago-parts. I'm not speaking of unique Tektronix built parts, but rather condensers and resistors, tubes, transistors and connectors. In the place and time I spent my youth, there was a constant struggle for hobbyists and experimenters to buy basic components from suppliers. They tried to sell only to commercial businesses, angering a whole generation who were delighted when they went out of business  years later.  I especially enjoy restoring Tektronix and products of the other major instrument and scope builder because they were built with excellence and pride, and prospered by the merit of their work rather than entrapment.

       Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


greenboxmaven
 

By the early 1970s many angry and creative people of my age realized they could make money helping the experimenters and do-it-yourselfers. They would get jobs at local electronics distributors, both on the counters and in the office, set up false accounts, and sell to trusted people at wholesale price if the correct code word or name was given, along with a "tip". It was an electronics speakeasy! Mangement was alert to all of this and tried to stop it, but the backlash in alternative newspapers and boycotts of their brands of appliances and electronics caused them to accept and tolerate it. The internet has almost totally ended the need for that sort of thing, and none too soon.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 8/26/20 11:35 PM, Shirley Dulcey KE1L wrote:
Electronics distributors have gotten a lot more friendly to small customers
over the years. Digi-Key and Mouser pioneered it, catering to hams and
hobbyists from the get-go. That turned out to be a great business model for
them, because some of those people later went on to work in the industry
and continued to order from the companies they knew and loved.

The second thing that helped the change along was the ubiquitous adoption
of credit cards. In the olden daisies a big obstacle to ordering from most
distributors (other than Digi-Key and Mouser, and Lafayette when it was
still around) was the need to have an account. Now that everybody has
credit cards, they have become the normal way for small to medium-ish
companies to order; it's too much trouble to set up an account and go
through the bank investigations. A typical startup doesn't even bother to
apply until it starts making production orders, assuming it ever does
rather than outsourcing manufacturing.

Finally, there was the internet. Online ordering lowered the cost of
handling orders a lot;. You don't have to pay somebody to answer the phone
or transcribe paper order forms, and the error rate dropped because of
eliminating an intermediate step.

At this point, our orders really aren't any different from a small company
ordering parts for a prototype, and we're no more trouble to process.
They're ordering parts to make somewhere between one and five of something,
and so are we. Digi-Key and Mouser are still there to take our orders, and
other distributors like Arrow have made a move into the small-order game.
There are still a few things that are hard to order because they are only
handled by old-school distributors that are unfriendly to us, but those
areas are shrinking.

I'm not sure the situation has changed as dramatically in fields other than
electronics. Somebody here may know.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 10:13 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy=
verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Even with repair manuals and schematics, there was another obstacle
years ago-parts. I'm not speaking of unique Tektronix built parts, but
rather condensers and resistors, tubes, transistors and connectors. In
the place and time I spent my youth, there was a constant struggle for
hobbyists and experimenters to buy basic components from suppliers. They
tried to sell only to commercial businesses, angering a whole generation
who were delighted when they went out of business years later. I
especially enjoy restoring Tektronix and products of the other major
instrument and scope builder because they were built with excellence and
pride, and prospered by the merit of their work rather than entrapment.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 8/26/20 9:14 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io wrote:
Right to repair is opposed by Apple, John Deere and hundreds of others.
Their "cash cow" is gouging customers for "repairs" by restricting the
availability of service information and parts. My father in law runs John
Deere equipment and is constantly being screwed for that green paint that
they spray on almost every part. A $10.00 SKF of Timken bearing, painted
JD Green magically costs $150-$200 at the dealer; same part in a JD Box!
As Mr. Griessen stated, the Firmware and Software are even more vulnerable,
as there is no alternative. This is an area where the Governments should
act and they do not, since these companies have powerful lobbies across the
world.




Tom Gardner
 

On 27/08/20 04:35, Shirley Dulcey KE1L wrote:
Electronics distributors have gotten a lot more friendly to small customers
over the years. ...

The second thing that helped the change along was the ubiquitous adoption
of credit cards. In the olden daisies a big obstacle to ordering from most
distributors (other than Digi-Key and Mouser, and Lafayette when it was
still around) was the need to have an account. ...

Finally, there was the internet. Online ordering lowered the cost of
handling orders a lot;. You don't have to pay somebody to answer the phone
or transcribe paper order forms, and the error rate dropped because of
eliminating an intermediate step.
One of my early projects, in ~73, was to build one of these new-fangled digital clocks with the miraculous LEDs.

Sourcing the parts involved:

* reading magazines to find what was available
* writing off for data sheets
* scavenging most components from scrap circuit boards
* finding a source of the special clock chip and enormous 0.5" LEDs, in California
* obtaining and sending an International Money Order; no credit cards, no cheques
* waiting for the components to arrive by slow boat
* elapsed time of several months!

It turned out to be the first most people in the road had seen, and some hated seeing their life tick away every second.

I still have it, it still works, and I recently converted it into a Vetinari clock


Dave Seiter
 

Besides electronics, I dabble in quite a few other things, but in the past 30 years, I've only come across one industry that refused to do business with me.  My house came with an old hot tub that I decided to rebuild about 2000.  I don't recall what part I was trying to source, but all the local places that sold parts absolutely refused to do business with me.  They only sold to people "in the industry".  I think I eventually rebuilt whatever it was, because we used it until about 2008, when it really started falling apart.  It may have been an early ebay purchase too, I just don't recall.  What I do clearly recall is how odd it was they didn't want to deal with me.  I never had problems buying from other appliance parts dealers or anyone else.  Proprietary data yes, but parts no.
-Dave

On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 08:37:34 PM PDT, Shirley Dulcey KE1L <mark@...> wrote:

Electronics distributors have gotten a lot more friendly to small customers
over the years. Digi-Key and Mouser pioneered it, catering to hams and
hobbyists from the get-go. That turned out to be a great business model for
them, because some of those people later went on to work in the industry
and continued to order from the companies they knew and loved.

The second thing that helped the change along was the ubiquitous adoption
of credit cards. In the olden daisies a big obstacle to ordering from most
distributors (other than Digi-Key and Mouser, and Lafayette when it was
still around) was the need to have an account. Now that everybody has
credit cards, they have become the normal way for small to medium-ish
companies to order; it's too much trouble to set up an account and go
through the bank investigations. A typical startup doesn't even bother to
apply until it starts making production orders, assuming it ever does
rather than outsourcing manufacturing.

Finally, there was the internet. Online ordering lowered the cost of
handling orders a lot;. You don't have to pay somebody to answer the phone
or transcribe paper order forms, and the error rate dropped because of
eliminating an intermediate step.

At this point, our orders really aren't any different from a small company
ordering parts for a prototype, and we're no more trouble to process.
They're ordering parts to make somewhere between one and five of something,
and so are we. Digi-Key and Mouser are still there to take our orders, and
other distributors like Arrow have made a move into the small-order game.
There are still a few things that are hard to order because they are only
handled by old-school distributors that are unfriendly to us, but those
areas are shrinking.

I'm not sure the situation has changed as dramatically in fields other than
electronics. Somebody here may know.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 10:13 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy=
verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Even with repair manuals and schematics, there was another obstacle
years ago-parts. I'm not speaking of unique Tektronix built parts, but
rather condensers and resistors, tubes, transistors and connectors. In
the place and time I spent my youth, there was a constant struggle for
hobbyists and experimenters to buy basic components from suppliers. They
tried to sell only to commercial businesses, angering a whole generation
who were delighted when they went out of business  years later.  I
especially enjoy restoring Tektronix and products of the other major
instrument and scope builder because they were built with excellence and
pride, and prospered by the merit of their work rather than entrapment.

        Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 8/26/20 9:14 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io wrote:
Right to repair is opposed by Apple, John Deere and hundreds of others.
Their "cash cow" is gouging customers for "repairs" by restricting the
availability of service information and parts.  My father in law runs John
Deere equipment and is constantly being screwed for that green paint that
they spray on almost every part.  A $10.00 SKF of Timken bearing, painted
JD Green magically costs $150-$200 at the dealer; same part in a JD Box!
As Mr. Griessen stated, the Firmware and Software are even more vulnerable,
as there is no alternative.  This is an area where the Governments should
act and they do not, since these companies have powerful lobbies across the
world.




Ray
 

Ran into this with Grainger last year.Was buying a contactor for the inside heater/ac fan.They said you need an account for this item. So yes they still try to protect the AC & Heating buisness.Garagedoor parts are very hard to get locally as well.I finally found one vendor on line.RaySent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device------ Original message------From: Dave SeiterDate: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 03:30To: TekScopes@groups.io;Cc: Subject:Re: Right to Repair - Re: [TekScopes] Digital scope with CRT Besides electronics, I dabble in quite a few other things, but in the past 30 years, I've only come across one industry that refused to do business with me.  My house came with an old hot tub that I decided to rebuild about 2000.  I don't recall what part I was trying to source, but all the local places that sold parts absolutely refused to do business with me.  They only sold to people "in the industry".  I think I eventually rebuilt whatever it was, because we used it until about 2008, when it really started falling apart.  It may have been an early ebay purchase too, I just don't recall.  What I do clearly recall is how odd it was they didn't want to deal with me.  I never had problems buying from other appliance parts dealers or anyone else.  Proprietary data yes, but parts no.
-Dave
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 08:37:34 PM PDT, Shirley Dulcey KE1L wrote:

Electronics distributors have gotten a lot more friendly to small customers
over the years. Digi-Key and Mouser pioneered it, catering to hams and
hobbyists from the get-go. That turned out to be a great business model for
them, because some of those people later went on to work in the industry
and continued to order from the companies they knew and loved.

The second thing that helped the change along was the ubiquitous adoption
of credit cards. In the olden daisies a big obstacle to ordering from most
distributors (other than Digi-Key and Mouser, and Lafayette when it was
still around) was the need to have an account. Now that everybody has
credit cards, they have become the normal way for small to medium-ish
companies to order; it's too much trouble to set up an account and go
through the bank investigations. A typical startup doesn't even bother to
apply until it starts making production orders, assuming it ever does
rather than outsourcing manufacturing.

Finally, there was the internet. Online ordering lowered the cost of
handling orders a lot;. You don't have to pay somebody to answer the phone
or transcribe paper order forms, and the error rate dropped because of
eliminating an intermediate step.

At this point, our orders really aren't any different from a small company
ordering parts for a prototype, and we're no more trouble to process.
They're ordering parts to make somewhere between one and five of something,
and so are we. Digi-Key and Mouser are still there to take our orders, and
other distributors like Arrow have made a move into the small-order game.
There are still a few things that are hard to order because they are only
handled by old-school distributors that are unfriendly to us, but those
areas are shrinking.

I'm not sure the situation has changed as dramatically in fields other than
electronics. Somebody here may know.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 10:13 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:

Even with repair manuals and schematics, there was another obstacle
years ago-parts. I'm not speaking of unique Tektronix built parts, but
rather condensers and resistors, tubes, transistors and connectors. In
the place and time I spent my youth, there was a constant struggle for
hobbyists and experimenters to buy basic components from suppliers. They
tried to sell only to commercial businesses, angering a whole generation
who were delighted when they went out of business  years later.  I
especially enjoy restoring Tektronix and products of the other major
instrument and scope builder because they were built with excellence and
pride, and prospered by the merit of their work rather than entrapment.

        Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 8/26/20 9:14 PM, Michael W. Lynch via groups.io wrote:
Right to repair is opposed by Apple, John Deere and hundreds of others.
Their "cash cow" is gouging customers for "repairs" by restricting the
availability of service information and parts.  My father in law runs John
Deere equipment and is constantly being screwed for that green paint that
they spray on almost every part.  A $10.00 SKF of Timken bearing, painted
JD Green magically costs $150-$200 at the dealer; same part in a JD Box!
As Mr. Griessen stated, the Firmware and Software are even more vulnerable,
as there is no alternative.  This is an area where the Governments should
act and they do not, since these companies have powerful lobbies across the
world.




scm@...
 

I have never, in the last 60 years, had a problem buying components from distributers. In the early years, I would just call a local distributer and place an order (Will Call) and pay cash on pickup. After the first purchase, they knew me as a regular customer. This got very easy when I was in graduate school. All the distributers knew me a both an individual and a lab purchaser. I use Digikey and Mouser now and maintain a huge inventory purchased on the surplus market.

There are issues, however, with the design of equipment to be unrepairable (or repairable only with custom parts from the manufacturer) and with the refusal by the manufacturer to make documentation freely available at a reasonable cost. These practices contribute to excess landfill (or other waste stream) use, ocean pollution, etc. The practices are, thus, environmentally, economically and socially undesirable.


toby@...
 

On 2020-08-27 8:43 a.m., scm@... wrote:
I have never, in the last 60 years, had a problem buying components from distributers. In the early years, I would just call a local distributer and place an order (Will Call) and pay cash on pickup. After the first purchase, they knew me as a regular customer. This got very easy when I was in graduate school. All the distributers knew me a both an individual and a lab purchaser. I use Digikey and Mouser now and maintain a huge inventory purchased on the surplus market.
I've recently had a great experience with Linear Systems. They will sell
any quantity to anyone.

This may be relevant to this group as they definitely sell new JFET
equivalents (including matched duals) for the parts used in a lot of
Tektronix amplifiers. Digikey stocks almost nothing in this category.

--Toby



There are issues, however, with the design of equipment to be unrepairable (or repairable only with custom parts from the manufacturer) and with the refusal by the manufacturer to make documentation freely available at a reasonable cost. These practices contribute to excess landfill (or other waste stream) use, ocean pollution, etc. The practices are, thus, environmentally, economically and socially undesirable.



greenboxmaven
 

By the early 1980s, you could easily buy electronics parts here in Syracuse, even specific ones for consumer equipment. Distributors of parts for HVAC and major appliances are still nasty, but telling them " If you won't sell me what I need, I will get it on the internet. Do you really want to lose a sale?" will often change their policies. In the 1960s when I was in high school, the situation with local suppliers was horrible, especially if you were trying to buy parts for consumer items. By the late 70s, most of them were out of business. The ones remaining were delighted to see any customer come in. There was always mail order, but it was glacially slow and orders were often incomplete. Lafayette and Allied were pretty decent in those times, and there were plenty military surplus dealers too. For Tektronix gear, there was a good sized store about fifty miles away that had both new and surplus parts. The owner was very nasty, but usually had ten year old Tektronix scopes at difficult but not impossible prices. As for the environmental consequences of making it impossible to repair all sorts of things, it is horrific and unsustainable. Fortunately, amatuer radio and sound system hobbyists are very active and proficient in hacking, reverse enginnering, and disseminating what they have discovered.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 8/27/20 8:43 AM, scm@... wrote:
I have never, in the last 60 years, had a problem buying components from distributers. In the early years, I would just call a local distributer and place an order (Will Call) and pay cash on pickup. After the first purchase, they knew me as a regular customer. This got very easy when I was in graduate school. All the distributers knew me a both an individual and a lab purchaser. I use Digikey and Mouser now and maintain a huge inventory purchased on the surplus market.

There are issues, however, with the design of equipment to be unrepairable (or repairable only with custom parts from the manufacturer) and with the refusal by the manufacturer to make documentation freely available at a reasonable cost. These practices contribute to excess landfill (or other waste stream) use, ocean pollution, etc. The practices are, thus, environmentally, economically and socially undesirable.



KeepIt SimpleStupid
 

I had trouble with this https://www.concord-electronics.com  electronics vendor.Note, you just can't make an account.  I used them for work (lab).  I was able to personally order from them IF I had a business entity to send an invoice to.So, I think I paid for it and had it sent home, but I had to have a business entity to get the invoice.
Shipping to work I did all of the time.  Work sometimes allowed employees to purchase stuff and re-imburse but it was difficult in a University corporate environment.
I always had problems with HVAC places.  Grainger, I used a friend's account # and picked it up.  Usually he placed the order.  Now, I can order from Grainger as an individual.  There is no order tracking for individuals.

HVAC, I was briefly allowed to purchase Carrier HVAC parts, but then something happened. I could then purchase hardware type parts.  It was applied uniformly.  Carrier is very restrictive anyway.
An SEM microscope supply store won't ship to individuals.
Masterbond won't sell to individuals: https://www.masterbond.com/content/how-purchase-our-products

On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 10:09:38 AM EDT, greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

By the early 1980s, you could easily buy electronics parts here in
Syracuse, even specific ones for consumer equipment.  Distributors of
parts for HVAC and major appliances are still nasty, but telling them "
If you won't sell me what I need, I will get it on the internet. Do you
really want to lose a sale?"  will often change their policies.  In the
1960s when I was in high school, the situation with local suppliers was
horrible, especially if you were trying to buy parts for consumer
items.  By the late 70s, most of them were out of business. The ones
remaining were delighted to see any customer come in.  There was always
mail order, but it was glacially slow and orders were often incomplete. 
Lafayette and Allied were pretty decent in those times,  and there were
plenty military surplus dealers  too.  For Tektronix gear, there was a
good sized store about fifty miles away that had both new and surplus
parts.  The owner was very nasty, but usually had ten year old Tektronix
scopes at difficult but not impossible prices. As for the environmental
consequences of making it impossible to repair all sorts of things, it
is horrific and unsustainable. Fortunately, amatuer radio and sound
system hobbyists are very active and proficient in hacking, reverse
enginnering, and disseminating what they have discovered.

        Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY


On 8/27/20 8:43 AM, scm@... wrote:
I have never, in the last 60 years, had a problem buying components from distributers. In the early years, I would just call a local distributer and place an order (Will Call) and pay cash on pickup. After the first purchase, they knew me as a regular customer. This got very easy when I was in graduate school. All the distributers knew me a both an individual and a lab purchaser. I use Digikey and Mouser now and maintain a huge inventory purchased on the surplus market.

There are issues, however, with the design of equipment to be unrepairable (or repairable only with custom parts from the manufacturer) and with the refusal by the manufacturer to make documentation freely available at a reasonable cost. These practices contribute to excess landfill (or other waste stream) use, ocean pollution, etc. The practices are, thus, environmentally, economically and socially undesirable.




nonIonizing EMF
 

So anyone manage to use any type of AC system to cool down any Tektronix systems to lower the noise floor and performance enhance? Figured I'd try to wrangle the scope... ooops... that was seriously not intended... back in. I know what's inspired me to learn and study dehumidification, AC, refrigeration and freezing systems is solely on the basis for making enhancement to receivers and maybe other electronics devices to improve performance where we'd use on the spectrometer detectors coolers. Figure why not use at even cooler stabilized temperatures? Any ideas for the scopes... within scope? ;-|)

P.S. seems like a slavery almost mind set where we can't own property is the intent, or internationalized inspiration, for the new deprivation of information schemes on some days.


Jim Ford
 

Seems like you'd have to cool stuff down a lot, at the very least to liquid nitrogen temp to get an appreciable noise benefit.  And who knows if the darn scope would even work at low temps?  Any physicists in the group care to elaborate?Jim Ford Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: nonIonizing EMF <nonionizingemf@...> Date: 8/27/20 10:17 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Right to Repair - Re: [TekScopes] Digital scope with CRT So anyone manage to use any type of AC system to cool down any Tektronix systems to lower the noise floor and performance enhance?  Figured I'd try to wrangle the scope... ooops... that was seriously not intended... back in.  I know what's inspired me to learn and study dehumidification, AC, refrigeration and freezing systems is solely on the basis for making enhancement to receivers and maybe other electronics devices to improve performance where we'd use on the spectrometer detectors coolers.  Figure why not use at even cooler stabilized temperatures?  Any ideas for the scopes... within scope? ;-|)P.S. seems like a slavery almost mind set where we can't own property is the intent, or internationalized inspiration, for the new deprivation of information schemes on some days.


Dave Seiter
 

Then, of course, there are other reasons for making hardware unrepairable, like security.  One company I worked for had a system whereby if one didn't enter a set of security codes before opening the box, a photosensor and switch would independently cause  the system to wipe the flash memory and brick the microprocessor (there was an internal battery specifically for this task). 
-Dave

On Thursday, August 27, 2020, 05:43:39 AM PDT, scm@... <scm@...> wrote:

I have never, in the last 60 years, had a problem buying components from distributers. In the early years, I would just call a local distributer and place an order (Will Call) and pay cash on pickup. After the first purchase, they knew me as a regular customer. This got very easy when I was in graduate school. All the distributers knew me a both an individual and a lab purchaser. I use Digikey and Mouser now and maintain a huge inventory purchased on the surplus market.

There are issues, however, with the design of equipment to be unrepairable (or repairable only with custom parts from the manufacturer) and with the refusal by the manufacturer to make documentation freely available at a reasonable cost. These practices contribute to excess landfill (or other waste stream) use, ocean pollution, etc. The practices are, thus, environmentally, economically and socially undesirable.


Milan Trcka
 

Had a furnace/AC controller fail. Tried to get a (universal) replacement from a local HVAC dealer . "What is your license number?" - I am an electronics engineer, and I know what I can and cannot do. "We do not sell to amateurs'. Next hit was an Internet parts supplier. Took all two days to get the controller, an EXACT replacement of the original. Same price within a couple of $. Go figure.


Renée
 

had the same issue with a furnace controller. local supplier would not sell me the controller....l took the darned thing apart ( removed the potting compound) replaced the bad chip, cap ,burned resistor and relay..also put a mov on the input ..it has been doing fine ever since and that was 15yrs ago. the local hvac guy found out and I fixed some others for him.......i am at the point if I cannot work on it I do not want it.
Renée

On 8/27/20 3:03 PM, Milan Trcka wrote:
Had a furnace/AC controller fail. Tried to get a (universal) replacement from a local HVAC dealer . "What is your license number?" - I am an electronics engineer, and I know what I can and cannot do. "We do not sell to amateurs'. Next hit was an Internet parts supplier. Took all two days to get the controller, an EXACT replacement of the original. Same price within a couple of $. Go figure.