Topics

recommended ESR meters these days

Reginald Beardsley
 

Yes, The BSIDE is the Arduino tester in a *very* solid case. I can't understand why someone would buy the bare PCB versions instead of a BSIDE.

Reg

ebayatessnh
 

My dad took a TV/Radio repair course in the early 60's. I still have the tube based EICO "magic eye" capacitance/resistance tester, signal generator, and VTVM. Have not fired them up in a while, but they worked last time I did about 10 years ago. He never made any money out of TV repair as a side job, but the workbench he set up started my on the way to a successful career in electrical engineering. His EICO oscilloscope (that was not triggered or calibrated) started me on the path to my current love of the 7603 and 7104 models in my collection now.

Tony Fleming
 

Have you tried DE5000? If yes, can you compare it to any of your favorit
LCR meter?
Thanks and have a great weekend my friend.
Tony

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 8:13 AM Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io <pulaskite=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes, The BSIDE is the Arduino tester in a *very* solid case. I can't
understand why someone would buy the bare PCB versions instead of a BSIDE.

Reg



ArtekManuals
 

Reg
Interesting instrument...

I assume you have one of these?

It was not obvious from looking at the specs or the user manual that the frequency of ESR measurements is programmable ???

 At what frequency are ESR measurements done

I did see that it only does ESR measurement on 2uf Caps and larger which is kind of a negative
Dave
NR1DX

On 3/14/2020 9:13 AM, Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io wrote:
Yes, The BSIDE is the Arduino tester in a *very* solid case. I can't understand why someone would buy the bare PCB versions instead of a BSIDE.

Reg

--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

 

LOL! You people have to spend one hundred dollars in gadgets like the DE-5000 to measure ESR?

As a professional electrical engineer with large experience in the design and development of complex electronic hardware and firmware, I enjoy the use of my ONE RESISTOR ESR meter (see my previous post).

I measured (for fun) in 10 minutes the ESR of about 10 electrolytic capacitors mounted on a dual preamplifier board that is over 40 years old.

- I clipped the ground of the oscilloscope X1 probe on the negative of the electrolytic, and the probe on its positive.
- I clipped to the ONE RESISTOR of 1000 ohm a 10V positive 100Khz signal from my function generator (with the same ground as the oscilloscope), and touched with the other lead of the resistor the positive of the capacitor under test. The resistor became in fact a current source.
- I observed on the oscilloscope, set to 10 mV/div, the 100Khz signal in the equivalent scale of 1 ohm ESR per division. I found some good capacitors and many bad ones! (its amazing how well an amplifier can work even with some "bad" electrolytics...)

It could not be easier!

Ernesto

Abc Xyz
 

One Member here said he built the one Mr. Carlson from YouTube Designed and
likes it.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 5:04 PM Carsten Bormann <cabocabo@...> wrote:

On 2020-03-12, at 22:57, ArtekManuals <manuals@...> wrote:

Anyone bought one _*RECENTLY *_that they can recommend or warn me away
from?

For something completely different, try a tweezer form factor.
(With a couple of good alligator clip leads, this is useful for many
larger components, too.)

I like the MS8911 from Mastech, about €40 shipped.
Can do 100 Hz to 10 kHz (no 100 kHz, though).
Particularly useful in 0.1 Vrms mode: this allows some in-circuit
measurements other instruments can’t do.

Don’t confuse this with the cheaper MS8910, which is decidedly meh.
(If you want something simple at the MS8910 price point, try the $18
HoldPeak HP990C a.k.a. HP-4070C. Really handy for component testing,
including diodes and zeners up to 24 V, and the occasional loaded [lo-Z]
voltage measurement.
None of these $20 instruments do ESR, IIRC.)

The MS8911 is not a replacement for my DE-5000, but really handy — my goto
LCR meter.
(There are other tweezers at $200+, no idea what I would use those for.)

[1] looks at the MS8911. He also likes the full-size MS5308; I don’t have
experience with that.

The $5 (+ battery) transistor tester thingies (e.g., LCR-T4) are
surprisingly useful, too, by the way. The $18 LCR-TC1 with its nice case,
rechargeable battery (and an IR remote control tester thrown in for good
measure) is another one of my goto “instruments”, mostly for
semiconductors, but it can do a capacitor as well.

Add a HP 4329A (or Keithley 616) for leakage testing, and you have some
pretty good diagnostic capability.

Now if anyone knows a meter that can characterize SRAM backup super
capacitors (say, 0.22 F, 50 kΩ ESR (!)), I’m all ears...

Grüße, Carsten

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96XTelPZnfA




Tony Fleming
 

Thanks for your information. I'm not an engineer in electronics, but I do what I can, including buying meters that I use. I do have couple scopes, but I usually just pull out my meter for the job at hand..... By same tocan I'm interested in learning electronics, after 50+ years of hiatus so it is little harder to learn than when I was young.
If you have a place where I can learn stuff like you've mentioned, I'm all ears.
Have a great weekend.

 

Hi ArtecManuals,

For the price of the BSIDE ESR tester you can buy a nice modern DDS function generator, frequency meter....
and apply my ONE RESISTOR ESR test method, at the frequency you want, with the waveform you want, sine, triangular, square, ha ha
One does not need to measure ESR every day.... maybe not even every month...,
and a signal generator + oscilloscope is all it takes.
The signal applied to the capacitor does not even need to have a DC offset.
Electrolytic capacitors, although polarized, are NOT schottky diodes. They can take a few millivolts of reverse voltage without losing their capacitance.

Enjoy,
Ernesto

Reginald Beardsley
 

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 09:10 AM, Tony Fleming wrote:

Have you tried DE5000? If yes, can you compare it to any of your favorit
LCR meter?
Thanks and have a great weekend my friend.
Tony
I have the ESR70, BSIDE, HP 4284A and 8245A. I posted the ESR70 vs BSIDE comparison. I don't have a DE5000 and not much incentive to get one given all the other kit I have. I was not aware of the DE5000 when I bought the Peak Atlas units.

I'll measure the test frequencies of the ESR70 and BSIDE, then set the 4284A as close to those as possible and measure with it. But first I have to reorganize and defrost my freezer.

Reg

Tony Fleming
 

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 03:52 PM, Ken Eckert wrote:


LC103
This one is large, expensive even used and not very portable, but if someone like to donate me one, I'll find space for it!

Tony Fleming
 

I have the MLC500, but no manual and I do not know if it is accurate or not.
If anyone has one like mine and have a manual in English, I'm interested to download it.
Thank you very much.
Tony

 

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 09:07 AM, Tony Fleming wrote:


Thanks for your information. I'm not an engineer in electronics, but I do what
I can, including buying meters that I use. I do have couple scopes, but I
usually just pull out my meter for the job at hand..... By same tocan I'm
interested in learning electronics, after 50+ years of hiatus so it is little
harder to learn than when I was young.
If you have a place where I can learn stuff like you've mentioned, I'm all
ears.
Have a great weekend.
Hi Tony,

First of all, there is no reason you cannot learn electronics after a 50+ hiatus. I keep learning electronics, some of it from this group, after 70++ years of existence. Instead being harder, as seniors we have more patience and perseverance.

I assume you have a good background in physics, electricity. To progress to "electronics" it is best to have some passion. Nothing inspires this passion better than the oscilloscope, the KING of the electronic instruments.
The oscilloscope is the only means to VISUALIZE the abstract electrical signals. This visualization stays with us all life long and makes electronics something CONCRETE and familiar.

So if you want to become expert in electronics, my advice is: BUILD AN OSCILLOSCOPE FROM SCRATCH (with some nice CRT tube, of course)

Right after college I did this for a couple of months, designing and building with an old 4 inch CRT an oscilloscope in the style of Tektronix. It was a dual-channel with all options, triggered with all options plus an X-Y display, and built 100% with transistors in 1971. With an 1800 V high-voltage supply running at 35 Khz, I designed and built the HV transformer and even the 50 Hz (in my country) transformer from their basic materials. All with little money, ha ha!

This launched my career of designer of analog electronics. At that time the progressive introduction of integrated circuits allowed me to learn the digital stuff, and I became a champion of designing WITH ECONOMY (minimum number of components). This economy stopped being an issue shortly thereafter, so I changed to optimum functionality no matter what, and the field of firmware, microprocessors and programmable LSI gave me a lust for complexity. Finally I became a software programmer, "software architect" and now... happily retired... I am finally back at tinkering with hardware and oscilloscopes.

There is a reason why some electrical engineers are attracted to a "TekScopes" grouop instead of "Power Distribution" or "High Voltage Transmission Lines" discussion groups.

Ernesto

Harvey White
 

There's a tradeoff here.

When I was (very) much younger, I built things from whatever I could get from old TV sets, a source of which (non functioning) I was lucky enough to find.  I traded off time stripping the old TVs for parts I did not have the money to buy.  And yes, there was a store near me that likely had every part I needed.  I couldn't get there, and I didn't have the money.

When I had a steady job, some years after I'd gotten out of college, I had a better lab, a few more parts, some more ambitious designs, and I'd started gathering parts from the local university or the throwaways from the business where I worked.  Most of my money went into infrastructure, such as better test equipment and a unimat lathe.  (You try making holes in a plate of aluminum for mounting a C mount camera lens (used epoxy and a nut from a light assembly (1-20 thread, Imperial), and grinding cone to make the hole.)

Once I got enough money, and the like, I started buying things where the things that I wanted were easier to buy, without having to invent the infrastructure, make the case, make the PC board, design it, debug it, and THEN continue with what I wanted to do when I decided I needed one of those.

Different people have different resources at differing times of their lives.  Some are lucky, some not.  Some are lucky enough to build everything, some need more.

As far as ESR is concerned, I do have a Sprague LC75, and an HP 4262A, both of which work.  I've been lucky.

Time vs money is a tradeoff everyone makes.

Harvey

On 3/14/2020 11:35 AM, Ernesto wrote:
LOL! You people have to spend one hundred dollars in gadgets like the DE-5000 to measure ESR?

As a professional electrical engineer with large experience in the design and development of complex electronic hardware and firmware, I enjoy the use of my ONE RESISTOR ESR meter (see my previous post).

I measured (for fun) in 10 minutes the ESR of about 10 electrolytic capacitors mounted on a dual preamplifier board that is over 40 years old.

- I clipped the ground of the oscilloscope X1 probe on the negative of the electrolytic, and the probe on its positive.
- I clipped to the ONE RESISTOR of 1000 ohm a 10V positive 100Khz signal from my function generator (with the same ground as the oscilloscope), and touched with the other lead of the resistor the positive of the capacitor under test. The resistor became in fact a current source.
- I observed on the oscilloscope, set to 10 mV/div, the 100Khz signal in the equivalent scale of 1 ohm ESR per division. I found some good capacitors and many bad ones! (its amazing how well an amplifier can work even with some "bad" electrolytics...)

It could not be easier!

Ernesto


Tony Fleming
 

Thank you very much for a very quick reply!
I'm not as smart in these fields as you are, but I love to play with stuff
and make some sample "demo units" that would put a "growing seed" in some
person or a kid's head, like it happen to me, when I was young. I think the
hands-on and some sound (or any visual effect) created by the
experiment is very powerful. At least it was in my brain, but life took me
to a different route and I had to take care of my family and ..... Now,
when kids are on their own for a while, is the time to play with my toys!
Everything to me is a toy because I'm young in my heart and brain - not the
body.... I love oscilloscopes and DMM's or special meters that I own. I'm
very visual, photography was and is my other hobby and even
professional work in the past .... so seeing something that we aren't
equipped to see, electrons + many other like oxygen....is something that I
love. I love to show this to anyone who wants to, because I love people
very much. I also play with Arduino and ESP32/8266.... Raspberry PI.... but
it is hard for me to remember stuff. Dyslexia and Fibromyalgia with PTSD
combination ++ some other health stuff is slowing my brain down, but I try
and try again, until I get it or not.
I've made some simple Jacob Ladders with neon sign transformer or from a
Microwave Oven Transformers.... but I don't know how to make stuff on my
own, without having schema and I love to have a video also, of the project
when I can. So I can "copy" someone's design but now I can't make complex
stuff on my own.
Example is my Tesla Kit, that my friend gave me - it is here on the
youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4y6j-foyY&list=PLv52A7rm-UViZEOlzZfZOB9Gl8cjS3ze5&index=2&t=0s
(I
also started not long ago a website: https://tonysfun.com/ )
I have the parts (not knowing if all parts are there or not for sure, but
most are there) and one sheet of some instructions, but that is all. I've
asked many youtube people, who made these powerful Tesla Coils, but nobody
answered at this time.
Would you be willing to take me one step at a time and make a schema that I
can follow?
I'm very careful and take many precaushions before playing with Kilovolts
or even just with any voltage, since I hate to burn or break anything....
I' also on Skype (under czecht@... - I was born in Czechoslovakia
but I escaped in 1981 to USA) so we could see each other while talking
about anything you like me to know.
One of the scopes I have is older Tektronix 2465 DMM, it came busted but a
simple switch cleaning fixed that problem.
Also I have a modern 100 Mhz color scope, Aktakom - I think it is a copy of
and a OWON.... can't remember the model number- and a Aktakom
generator...+ many more "gizmos", as I call them.
But I would not know how to make a oscilloscope from parts, but I do
desolder many boards, TV's ... whatever I find on the curb or someone gives
me, so I can get parts I can use.
I'm willing to learn if you like to share your time and knowledge, since I
work for myself as a computer repairman.... Another hobby that became
business, but I love computers like my Oscilloscopes....
Sorry for a long email and thanks again for your reply.
Have a great weekend.
Tony

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:04 PM Ernesto <ebordon@...> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 09:07 AM, Tony Fleming wrote:


Thanks for your information. I'm not an engineer in electronics, but I
do what
I can, including buying meters that I use. I do have couple scopes, but I
usually just pull out my meter for the job at hand..... By same tocan I'm
interested in learning electronics, after 50+ years of hiatus so it is
little
harder to learn than when I was young.
If you have a place where I can learn stuff like you've mentioned, I'm
all
ears.
Have a great weekend.
Hi Tony,

First of all, there is no reason you cannot learn electronics after a 50+
hiatus. I keep learning electronics, some of it from this group, after
70++ years of existence. Instead being harder, as seniors we have more
patience and perseverance.

I assume you have a good background in physics, electricity. To progress
to "electronics" it is best to have some passion. Nothing inspires this
passion better than the oscilloscope, the KING of the electronic
instruments.
The oscilloscope is the only means to VISUALIZE the abstract electrical
signals. This visualization stays with us all life long and makes
electronics something CONCRETE and familiar.

So if you want to become expert in electronics, my advice is: BUILD AN
OSCILLOSCOPE FROM SCRATCH (with some nice CRT tube, of course)

Right after college I did this for a couple of months, designing and
building with an old 4 inch CRT an oscilloscope in the style of Tektronix.
It was a dual-channel with all options, triggered with all options plus an
X-Y display, and built 100% with transistors in 1971. With an 1800 V
high-voltage supply running at 35 Khz, I designed and built the HV
transformer and even the 50 Hz (in my country) transformer from their basic
materials. All with little money, ha ha!

This launched my career of designer of analog electronics. At that time
the progressive introduction of integrated circuits allowed me to learn the
digital stuff, and I became a champion of designing WITH ECONOMY (minimum
number of components). This economy stopped being an issue shortly
thereafter, so I changed to optimum functionality no matter what, and the
field of firmware, microprocessors and programmable LSI gave me a lust for
complexity. Finally I became a software programmer, "software architect"
and now... happily retired... I am finally back at tinkering with hardware
and oscilloscopes.

There is a reason why some electrical engineers are attracted to a
"TekScopes" grouop instead of "Power Distribution" or "High Voltage
Transmission Lines" discussion groups.

Ernesto




Bob Albert
 

Did you read this?
Tesla coil

|
|
|
| | |

|

|
|
| |
Tesla coil

Tesla used these circuits to conduct innovative experiments in electrical lighting, phosphorescence, X-ray gener...
|

|

|


Bob

On Saturday, March 14, 2020, 05:08:48 PM PDT, Tony Fleming <czecht@...> wrote:

Thank you very much for a very quick reply!
I'm not as smart in these fields as you are, but I love to play with stuff
and make some sample "demo units" that would put a "growing seed" in some
person or a kid's head, like it happen to me, when I was young. I think the
hands-on and some sound (or any visual effect)  created by the
experiment is very powerful. At least it was in my brain, but life took me
to a different route and I had to take care of my family and ..... Now,
when kids are on their own for a while, is the time to play with my toys!
Everything to me is a toy because I'm young in my heart and brain - not the
body.... I love oscilloscopes and DMM's or special meters that I own. I'm
very visual, photography was and is my other hobby and even
professional work in the past .... so seeing something that we aren't
equipped to see, electrons + many other like oxygen....is something that I
love. I love  to show this to anyone who wants to, because I love people
very much. I also play with Arduino and ESP32/8266.... Raspberry PI.... but
it is hard for me to remember stuff. Dyslexia and Fibromyalgia with PTSD
combination ++ some other health stuff is slowing my brain down, but I try
and try again, until I get it or not.
I've made some simple Jacob Ladders with neon sign transformer or from a
Microwave Oven Transformers.... but I don't know how to make stuff on my
own, without having schema and I love to have a video also, of the project
when I can. So I can "copy" someone's design but now I can't make complex
stuff on my own.
Example is my Tesla Kit, that my friend gave me - it is here on the
youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4y6j-foyY&list=PLv52A7rm-UViZEOlzZfZOB9Gl8cjS3ze5&index=2&t=0s
(I
also started not long ago a website:  https://tonysfun.com/   )
I have the parts (not knowing if all parts are there or not for sure, but
most are there) and one sheet of some instructions, but that is all. I've
asked many youtube people, who made these powerful Tesla Coils, but nobody
answered at this time.
Would you be willing to take me one step at a time and make a schema that I
can follow?
I'm very careful and take many precaushions before playing with Kilovolts
or even just with any voltage, since I hate to burn or break anything....
I' also on Skype (under  czecht@... - I was born in Czechoslovakia
but I escaped in 1981 to USA) so we could see each other while talking
about anything you like me to know.
One of the scopes I have is older Tektronix 2465 DMM, it came busted but a
simple switch cleaning fixed that problem.
Also I have a modern 100 Mhz color scope, Aktakom - I think it is a copy of
and a  OWON.... can't remember the model number- and a Aktakom
generator...+ many more "gizmos", as I call them.
But I would not know how to make a oscilloscope from parts, but I do
desolder many boards, TV's ... whatever I find on the curb or someone gives
me, so I can get parts I can use.
I'm willing to learn if you like to share your time and knowledge, since I
work for myself as a computer repairman.... Another hobby  that became
business, but I love computers like my Oscilloscopes....
Sorry for a long email and thanks again for your reply.
Have a great weekend.
Tony


On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:04 PM Ernesto <ebordon@...> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 09:07 AM, Tony Fleming wrote:


Thanks for your information. I'm not an engineer in electronics, but I
do what
I can, including buying meters that I use. I do have couple scopes, but I
usually just pull out my meter for the job at hand..... By same tocan I'm
interested in learning electronics, after 50+ years of hiatus so it is
little
harder to learn than when I was young.
If you have a place where I can learn stuff like you've mentioned, I'm
all
ears.
Have a great weekend.
Hi Tony,

First of all, there is no reason you cannot learn electronics after a 50+
hiatus.  I keep learning electronics, some of it from this group, after
70++ years of existence. Instead being harder, as seniors we have more
patience and perseverance.

I assume you have a good background in physics, electricity.  To progress
to "electronics" it is best to have some passion.  Nothing inspires this
passion better than the oscilloscope, the KING of the electronic
instruments.
The oscilloscope is the only means to VISUALIZE  the abstract electrical
signals.  This visualization stays with us all life long and makes
electronics something CONCRETE and familiar.

So if you want to become expert in electronics, my advice is:  BUILD AN
OSCILLOSCOPE FROM SCRATCH  (with some nice CRT tube, of course)

Right after college I did this for a couple of months,  designing and
building with an old 4 inch CRT an oscilloscope in the style of Tektronix.
It was a dual-channel with all options, triggered with all options plus an
X-Y display, and built 100% with transistors in 1971.  With an 1800 V
high-voltage supply running at 35 Khz,  I designed and built the HV
transformer and even the 50 Hz (in my country) transformer from their basic
materials.  All with little money, ha ha!

This launched my career of designer of analog electronics.  At that time
the progressive introduction of integrated circuits allowed me to learn the
digital stuff,  and I became a champion of designing WITH ECONOMY  (minimum
number of components). This economy stopped being an issue shortly
thereafter, so I changed to optimum functionality no matter what, and the
field of firmware, microprocessors and programmable LSI gave me a lust for
complexity. Finally I became a software programmer, "software architect"
and now... happily retired... I am finally back at tinkering with hardware
and oscilloscopes.

There is a reason why some electrical engineers are attracted to a
"TekScopes" grouop instead of "Power Distribution" or "High Voltage
Transmission Lines" discussion groups.

Ernesto




Abc Xyz
 

Well said Harvey.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 4:14 PM Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

There's a tradeoff here.

When I was (very) much younger, I built things from whatever I could get
from old TV sets, a source of which (non functioning) I was lucky enough
to find. I traded off time stripping the old TVs for parts I did not
have the money to buy. And yes, there was a store near me that likely
had every part I needed. I couldn't get there, and I didn't have the
money.

When I had a steady job, some years after I'd gotten out of college, I
had a better lab, a few more parts, some more ambitious designs, and I'd
started gathering parts from the local university or the throwaways from
the business where I worked. Most of my money went into infrastructure,
such as better test equipment and a unimat lathe. (You try making holes
in a plate of aluminum for mounting a C mount camera lens (used epoxy
and a nut from a light assembly (1-20 thread, Imperial), and grinding
cone to make the hole.)

Once I got enough money, and the like, I started buying things where the
things that I wanted were easier to buy, without having to invent the
infrastructure, make the case, make the PC board, design it, debug it,
and THEN continue with what I wanted to do when I decided I needed one
of those.

Different people have different resources at differing times of their
lives. Some are lucky, some not. Some are lucky enough to build
everything, some need more.

As far as ESR is concerned, I do have a Sprague LC75, and an HP 4262A,
both of which work. I've been lucky.

Time vs money is a tradeoff everyone makes.

Harvey


On 3/14/2020 11:35 AM, Ernesto wrote:
LOL! You people have to spend one hundred dollars in gadgets like the
DE-5000 to measure ESR?

As a professional electrical engineer with large experience in the
design and development of complex electronic hardware and firmware, I enjoy
the use of my ONE RESISTOR ESR meter (see my previous post).

I measured (for fun) in 10 minutes the ESR of about 10 electrolytic
capacitors mounted on a dual preamplifier board that is over 40 years old.

- I clipped the ground of the oscilloscope X1 probe on the negative of
the electrolytic, and the probe on its positive.
- I clipped to the ONE RESISTOR of 1000 ohm a 10V positive 100Khz signal
from my function generator (with the same ground as the oscilloscope), and
touched with the other lead of the resistor the positive of the capacitor
under test. The resistor became in fact a current source.
- I observed on the oscilloscope, set to 10 mV/div, the 100Khz signal in
the equivalent scale of 1 ohm ESR per division. I found some good
capacitors and many bad ones! (its amazing how well an amplifier can work
even with some "bad" electrolytics...)

It could not be easier!

Ernesto





John Crighton
 

Hello Ernesto, Harvey and the Group,

my initial interest in this thread is due to having a Tektronix
TDS 320 with a dud switchmode style power supply.
Tektronix or the power supply maker do not supply a
circuit diagram.
I am an old guy, a hobbyist and retired. I lean towards
Ernesto's methods. I like this 99 cent ESR Test Adapter.
https://www.yumpu.com/la/document/view/18546928/print-99-cent-esr-test-adapter

I take your point Harvey when you said,
" Time vs money is a tradeoff everyone makes."
You are right.

This thread has made me think about that.
If you are cashed up and might not be around much longer
then enjoy yourself. Buy some nice gear. Why not?

I live 35 Km north of Sydney. I have not been able to buy
a box of tissues or a toilet roll from my local supermarket
for over a weak due to people panic buying in fear of the
corona virus. I am mentioning this because I am using tissues
and bog roll paper to clean up the mess made by a leaking
Energiser 1.5V D cell.
Many of the components on the inside of my beloved
AVO Model 8 mk2 multimeter are green with corrosion.

In the 1960s I hankered after this meter. Here is picture
http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/avo8.html

I finally got my 1960s AVO meter in the 1990s and today
it still works but is suffering from leaking battery damage
due to my negligence.

The Trade Off Harvey, do I save my toilet tissue paper for
toilet use or use it on my 50 plus years old multimeter?

Still on the "Trade Off" theme, up till now, I have spent
over 15 hours cleaning the components on the inside of my
multimeter meter with more work to do.
Common sense tells me it is not worth it but I feel I must
reduce the corrosion damage and fix this meter.
Maybe also as a punishment for not checking the
batteries in my equipment.

Your points Harvey, Ernesto and Dave who wants to
"buy" an ESR meter because he is running out of time,
have made me think about time and how I spend it.

Excellent Thread, thanks for that.

Regards,
John Crighton
Sydney

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: <TekScopes@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] recommended ESR meters these days


There's a tradeoff here.

When I was (very) much younger, I built things from whatever I could get from old TV sets, a source of which (non functioning) I was lucky enough to find. I traded off time stripping the old TVs for parts I did not have the money to buy. And yes, there was a store near me that likely had every part I needed. I couldn't get there, and I didn't have the money.

When I had a steady job, some years after I'd gotten out of college, I had a better lab, a few more parts, some more ambitious designs, and I'd started gathering parts from the local university or the throwaways from the business where I worked. Most of my money went into infrastructure, such as better test equipment and a unimat lathe. (You try making holes in a plate of aluminum for mounting a C mount camera lens (used epoxy and a nut from a light assembly (1-20 thread, Imperial), and grinding cone to make the hole.)

Once I got enough money, and the like, I started buying things where the things that I wanted were easier to buy, without having to invent the infrastructure, make the case, make the PC board, design it, debug it, and THEN continue with what I wanted to do when I decided I needed one of those.

Different people have different resources at differing times of their lives. Some are lucky, some not. Some are lucky enough to build everything, some need more.

As far as ESR is concerned, I do have a Sprague LC75, and an HP 4262A, both of which work. I've been lucky.

Time vs money is a tradeoff everyone makes.

Harvey


On 3/14/2020 11:35 AM, Ernesto wrote:
LOL! You people have to spend one hundred dollars in gadgets like the DE-5000 to measure ESR?

As a professional electrical engineer with large experience in the design and development of complex electronic hardware and firmware, I enjoy the use of my ONE RESISTOR ESR meter (see my previous post).

I measured (for fun) in 10 minutes the ESR of about 10 electrolytic capacitors mounted on a dual preamplifier board that is over 40 years old.

- I clipped the ground of the oscilloscope X1 probe on the negative of the electrolytic, and the probe on its positive.
- I clipped to the ONE RESISTOR of 1000 ohm a 10V positive 100Khz signal from my function generator (with the same ground as the oscilloscope), and touched with the other lead of the resistor the positive of the capacitor under test. The resistor became in fact a current source.
- I observed on the oscilloscope, set to 10 mV/div, the 100Khz signal in the equivalent scale of 1 ohm ESR per division. I found some good capacitors and many bad ones! (its amazing how well an amplifier can work even with some "bad" electrolytics...)

It could not be easier!

Ernesto



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Hi John,

I enjoyed reading your post. I share your likeness for your Universal AVOmeter. I constantly use something less sophisticated : an not-too-old Radio Shack multimeter with a mirror backed needle that I also resuscitated after putting it aside for decades. I like to see a needle moving instead of the flickering numbers of a modern autoranging meter. And yes, I also had damage from the battery used in the ohms reading, which was left in the instrument for 20 years...

Harvey said: "Time vs. money is a tradeoff everyone makes". This is true, but participants in this TekScopes group we are not big followers of this tradeoff. Otherwise we would not care for old Tektronix equipment but would retire them all and buy very inexpensive modern electronic instruments with much superior performances. We are here because we have the time, and we don't care much about money.

The time invested here gives us SATISFACTION. It is like putting the time to learn to play a Beethoven sonata on an old piano instead of going to Youtube and listen to it performed in the Carnegie Hall.

Regards,
Ernesto

Tony Fleming
 

Sorry, I do not know what it is about. You need to tell me exactly what you
like to say - I'm little slow at times.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:37 PM Bob Albert via Groups.Io <bob91343=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Did you read this?
Tesla coil

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Tesla coil

Tesla used these circuits to conduct innovative experiments in electrical
lighting, phosphorescence, X-ray gener...
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Bob


On Saturday, March 14, 2020, 05:08:48 PM PDT, Tony Fleming <
czecht@...> wrote:

Thank you very much for a very quick reply!
I'm not as smart in these fields as you are, but I love to play with stuff
and make some sample "demo units" that would put a "growing seed" in some
person or a kid's head, like it happen to me, when I was young. I think the
hands-on and some sound (or any visual effect) created by the
experiment is very powerful. At least it was in my brain, but life took me
to a different route and I had to take care of my family and ..... Now,
when kids are on their own for a while, is the time to play with my toys!
Everything to me is a toy because I'm young in my heart and brain - not the
body.... I love oscilloscopes and DMM's or special meters that I own. I'm
very visual, photography was and is my other hobby and even
professional work in the past .... so seeing something that we aren't
equipped to see, electrons + many other like oxygen....is something that I
love. I love to show this to anyone who wants to, because I love people
very much. I also play with Arduino and ESP32/8266.... Raspberry PI.... but
it is hard for me to remember stuff. Dyslexia and Fibromyalgia with PTSD
combination ++ some other health stuff is slowing my brain down, but I try
and try again, until I get it or not.
I've made some simple Jacob Ladders with neon sign transformer or from a
Microwave Oven Transformers.... but I don't know how to make stuff on my
own, without having schema and I love to have a video also, of the project
when I can. So I can "copy" someone's design but now I can't make complex
stuff on my own.
Example is my Tesla Kit, that my friend gave me - it is here on the
youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4y6j-foyY&list=PLv52A7rm-UViZEOlzZfZOB9Gl8cjS3ze5&index=2&t=0s
(I
also started not long ago a website: https://tonysfun.com/ )
I have the parts (not knowing if all parts are there or not for sure, but
most are there) and one sheet of some instructions, but that is all. I've
asked many youtube people, who made these powerful Tesla Coils, but nobody
answered at this time.
Would you be willing to take me one step at a time and make a schema that I
can follow?
I'm very careful and take many precaushions before playing with Kilovolts
or even just with any voltage, since I hate to burn or break anything....
I' also on Skype (under czecht@... - I was born in Czechoslovakia
but I escaped in 1981 to USA) so we could see each other while talking
about anything you like me to know.
One of the scopes I have is older Tektronix 2465 DMM, it came busted but a
simple switch cleaning fixed that problem.
Also I have a modern 100 Mhz color scope, Aktakom - I think it is a copy of
and a OWON.... can't remember the model number- and a Aktakom
generator...+ many more "gizmos", as I call them.
But I would not know how to make a oscilloscope from parts, but I do
desolder many boards, TV's ... whatever I find on the curb or someone gives
me, so I can get parts I can use.
I'm willing to learn if you like to share your time and knowledge, since I
work for myself as a computer repairman.... Another hobby that became
business, but I love computers like my Oscilloscopes....
Sorry for a long email and thanks again for your reply.
Have a great weekend.
Tony


On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 12:04 PM Ernesto <ebordon@...> wrote:

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 09:07 AM, Tony Fleming wrote:


Thanks for your information. I'm not an engineer in electronics, but I
do what
I can, including buying meters that I use. I do have couple scopes,
but I
usually just pull out my meter for the job at hand..... By same tocan
I'm
interested in learning electronics, after 50+ years of hiatus so it is
little
harder to learn than when I was young.
If you have a place where I can learn stuff like you've mentioned, I'm
all
ears.
Have a great weekend.
Hi Tony,

First of all, there is no reason you cannot learn electronics after a 50+
hiatus. I keep learning electronics, some of it from this group, after
70++ years of existence. Instead being harder, as seniors we have more
patience and perseverance.

I assume you have a good background in physics, electricity. To progress
to "electronics" it is best to have some passion. Nothing inspires this
passion better than the oscilloscope, the KING of the electronic
instruments.
The oscilloscope is the only means to VISUALIZE the abstract electrical
signals. This visualization stays with us all life long and makes
electronics something CONCRETE and familiar.

So if you want to become expert in electronics, my advice is: BUILD AN
OSCILLOSCOPE FROM SCRATCH (with some nice CRT tube, of course)

Right after college I did this for a couple of months, designing and
building with an old 4 inch CRT an oscilloscope in the style of
Tektronix.
It was a dual-channel with all options, triggered with all options plus
an
X-Y display, and built 100% with transistors in 1971. With an 1800 V
high-voltage supply running at 35 Khz, I designed and built the HV
transformer and even the 50 Hz (in my country) transformer from their
basic
materials. All with little money, ha ha!

This launched my career of designer of analog electronics. At that time
the progressive introduction of integrated circuits allowed me to learn
the
digital stuff, and I became a champion of designing WITH ECONOMY
(minimum
number of components). This economy stopped being an issue shortly
thereafter, so I changed to optimum functionality no matter what, and the
field of firmware, microprocessors and programmable LSI gave me a lust
for
complexity. Finally I became a software programmer, "software architect"
and now... happily retired... I am finally back at tinkering with
hardware
and oscilloscopes.

There is a reason why some electrical engineers are attracted to a
"TekScopes" grouop instead of "Power Distribution" or "High Voltage
Transmission Lines" discussion groups.

Ernesto









Randy.AB9GO
 

EDS-88A CapAnalyzer Series II

If you do alot of repair work it is the best ESR meter hands down. It's
not cheap but worth it. I own one and it's great. Mercedelectronics.com

Randy AB9GO




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