1. TekScopes@groups.io
Topics

(OT) Where to go for 70s IBM hardware? I'm looking for a terminal.

cheater cheater
 

Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so I thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38 (or contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM 32xx, 37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
snapdiode
 

You could ask Curious Marc on YouTube, he's a fan of '70s HP stuff but there might be overlap. He rescued some IBM hardware too.
Dave Daniel
 

The early IBM terminals (e.g., 3270) were driven by a control unit that was in turn connected to the IBM channel interface (Bus-Tag/ESCON/FICON). The control units connected multiple displays. You’ll need an IBM CPU that has an IBM channel interface to use any of those.

I don’t know what more modern IBM terminals use, but I think they still use the channel interface-control unit scheme.

DaveD

On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:42, cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so I thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38 (or contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM 32xx, 37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
Albert LaFrance
 

There was a species of 327x control unit for remote sites, that connected to a modem by a RS-232 interface. As I recall, on the earlier versions the control unit address was set by DIP switches, and for some reason IBM scrambled the bit positions represented by the switches; i.e. instead of switches 1-4 representing address bits 1-2-4-8 or 8-4-2-1 as you'd expect, they might be 4-8-1-2.

Also, there was a stand-alone 3270 terminal (3275 I think) which had the control unit integrated into the terminal, so it connected to a modem via RS-232 rather than to a control unit via IBM's proprietary coaxial-cable interface.

Albert

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Daniel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] (OT) Where to go for 70s IBM hardware? I'm looking for a terminal.

The early IBM terminals (e.g., 3270) were driven by a control unit that was in turn connected to the IBM channel interface (Bus-Tag/ESCON/FICON). The control units connected multiple displays. You’ll need an IBM CPU that has an IBM channel interface to use any of those.

I don’t know what more modern IBM terminals use, but I think they still use the channel interface-control unit scheme.

DaveD

On Nov 24, 2020, at 10:42, cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so I thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38 (or contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM 32xx, 37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
cheater cheater
 

Thanks everyone. Not really bothered about the dependency on a control unit for two reasons. First of all, finding /anything/ of this era will be difficult, whether it's the rarer RS232 kind, or less rare control unit based type. Second of all, emulating the bus will likely be part of an interesting challenge and a good way of figuring out the inner workings of the display and input device, which is what I want to do, so rather than a problem it's a positive thing for me. A $10 computer nowadays will be able to do the job. My current biggest problem is locating those older terminals in the first place. My assumption is they're mostly in defunct computer graveyards, warehouses, university store rooms, or bank or utilities store rooms, dusting and decaying away.
cheater cheater
 

If anyone has a friend who might have one of those, or may have worked with
them, would you mind reaching out to them and asking around? I'll make sure
to make it worth everyone's time. I just want to help preserve some of this
tech for the future and describe what it does and how, before it is
irreversibly committed to obscurity.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:03 PM cheater cheater via groups.io
<cheater00social=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks everyone. Not really bothered about the dependency on a control
unit for two reasons. First of all, finding /anything/ of this era will be
difficult, whether it's the rarer RS232 kind, or less rare control unit
based type. Second of all, emulating the bus will likely be part of an
interesting challenge and a good way of figuring out the inner workings of
the display and input device, which is what I want to do, so rather than a
problem it's a positive thing for me. A $10 computer nowadays will be able
to do the job. My current biggest problem is locating those older terminals
in the first place. My assumption is they're mostly in defunct computer
graveyards, warehouses, university store rooms, or bank or utilities store
rooms, dusting and decaying away.
Eric
 

I would suggest Curious Marc's you tube channel and the living computer museum he is a part of. They have some very early stuff including a functioning PDP1.

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of cheater cheater
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 3:01 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] (OT) Where to go for 70s IBM hardware? I'm looking for a terminal.

If anyone has a friend who might have one of those, or may have worked with them, would you mind reaching out to them and asking around? I'll make sure to make it worth everyone's time. I just want to help preserve some of this tech for the future and describe what it does and how, before it is irreversibly committed to obscurity.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:03 PM cheater cheater via groups.io <cheater00social=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks everyone. Not really bothered about the dependency on a control
unit for two reasons. First of all, finding /anything/ of this era
will be difficult, whether it's the rarer RS232 kind, or less rare
control unit based type. Second of all, emulating the bus will likely
be part of an interesting challenge and a good way of figuring out the
inner workings of the display and input device, which is what I want
to do, so rather than a problem it's a positive thing for me. A $10
computer nowadays will be able to do the job. My current biggest
problem is locating those older terminals in the first place. My
assumption is they're mostly in defunct computer graveyards,
warehouses, university store rooms, or bank or utilities store rooms, dusting and decaying away.
cheater cheater
 

Thanks... two people who suggested Curious Marc by now...

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 9:17 PM Eric <ericsp@gmail.com> wrote:

I would suggest Curious Marc's you tube channel and the living computer
museum he is a part of. They have some very early stuff including a
functioning PDP1.

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of cheater
cheater
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 3:01 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] (OT) Where to go for 70s IBM hardware? I'm
looking for a terminal.

If anyone has a friend who might have one of those, or may have worked
with them, would you mind reaching out to them and asking around? I'll make
sure to make it worth everyone's time. I just want to help preserve some of
this tech for the future and describe what it does and how, before it is
irreversibly committed to obscurity.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:03 PM cheater cheater via groups.io
<cheater00social=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks everyone. Not really bothered about the dependency on a control
unit for two reasons. First of all, finding /anything/ of this era
will be difficult, whether it's the rarer RS232 kind, or less rare
control unit based type. Second of all, emulating the bus will likely
be part of an interesting challenge and a good way of figuring out the
inner workings of the display and input device, which is what I want
to do, so rather than a problem it's a positive thing for me. A $10
computer nowadays will be able to do the job. My current biggest
problem is locating those older terminals in the first place. My
assumption is they're mostly in defunct computer graveyards,
warehouses, university store rooms, or bank or utilities store rooms,
dusting and decaying away.
Paul Amaranth
 

One of my first jobs was writing CICS code that drove 3270s. Cutting edge
at the time but, truthfully? I don't mind it going obscure :-)

Now that I think of it, there's quite a lot of similarity between that and
writing systems using browsers as their interface.

Best of luck on your search; somebody needs to have a *very* dusty closet.

Paul

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 09:00:58PM +0100, cheater cheater wrote:
If anyone has a friend who might have one of those, or may have worked with
them, would you mind reaching out to them and asking around? I'll make sure
to make it worth everyone's time. I just want to help preserve some of this
tech for the future and describe what it does and how, before it is
irreversibly committed to obscurity.
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@AuroraGrp.Com | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
Dave Daniel
 

Where are you located?

DaveD

On Nov 24, 2020, at 15:00, cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com> wrote:

If anyone has a friend who might have one of those, or may have worked with
them, would you mind reaching out to them and asking around? I'll make sure
to make it worth everyone's time. I just want to help preserve some of this
tech for the future and describe what it does and how, before it is
irreversibly committed to obscurity.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 8:03 PM cheater cheater via groups.io
<cheater00social=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks everyone. Not really bothered about the dependency on a control
unit for two reasons. First of all, finding /anything/ of this era will be
difficult, whether it's the rarer RS232 kind, or less rare control unit
based type. Second of all, emulating the bus will likely be part of an
interesting challenge and a good way of figuring out the inner workings of
the display and input device, which is what I want to do, so rather than a
problem it's a positive thing for me. A $10 computer nowadays will be able
to do the job. My current biggest problem is locating those older terminals
in the first place. My assumption is they're mostly in defunct computer
graveyards, warehouses, university store rooms, or bank or utilities store
rooms, dusting and decaying away.
Geoffrey Thomas
 

Hi,
Have you tried ClassicCmp?

http://classiccmp.org/

Seems to be a real hive of info of the sort you're looking for.

Geoff.

On 24/11/2020 15:42, cheater cheater wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so I thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38 (or contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM 32xx, 37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part with one such machine, let me know please.
Thanks!
cheater cheater
 

Thanks, I'll check it out. If anyone has other suggestions, please do let
me know.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 10:19 PM Geoffrey Thomas <geoffreythomas@onetel.com>
wrote:

Hi,
Have you tried ClassicCmp?

http://classiccmp.org/

Seems to be a real hive of info of the sort you're looking for.

Geoff.

On 24/11/2020 15:42, cheater cheater wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so I
thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm
looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38 (or
contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM 32xx,
37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable
computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see
how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the
website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have
enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part
with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
n9llo
 

There are several Facebook groups that deal with buying,selling,and collecting vintage computer hardware

On Nov 25, 2020, at 4:48 AM, cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, I'll check it out. If anyone has other suggestions, please do let
me know.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 10:19 PM Geoffrey Thomas <geoffreythomas@onetel.com>
wrote:

Hi,
Have you tried ClassicCmp?

http://classiccmp.org/

Seems to be a real hive of info of the sort you're looking for.

Geoff.

On 24/11/2020 15:42, cheater cheater wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so I
thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm
looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38 (or
contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM 32xx,
37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable
computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see
how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the
website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have
enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part
with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
-
 

I used to have an IBM 5100, what would you like to know about it? Flip the
front switch to select APL or BASIC, turn it on and start typing. That was
it. BTW you should know that the 5100 and similar equipment is HIGHLY
sought after and brings a very high price, like bring an equal volume of
money if you want to buy one. I sold my 5100 to Eric Smith at
www.brouhaha.com many years ago.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 4:49 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Thanks, I'll check it out. If anyone has other suggestions, please do let
me know.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 10:19 PM Geoffrey Thomas <
geoffreythomas@onetel.com>
wrote:

Hi,
Have you tried ClassicCmp?

http://classiccmp.org/

Seems to be a real hive of info of the sort you're looking for.

Geoff.

On 24/11/2020 15:42, cheater cheater wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so
I
thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm
looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38
(or
contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM
32xx,
37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable
computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to see
how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the
website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have
enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part
with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
George Kelly
 

While not IBM specific the Vintage Computer Federation (VCF) might be a good resource to start with.

http://vcfed.org/wp/
cheater cheater
 

Thanks, could you mention the names?

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:58 AM n9llo via groups.io <N9LLO=
aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

There are several Facebook groups that deal with buying,selling,and
collecting vintage computer hardware
On Nov 25, 2020, at 4:48 AM, cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Thanks, I'll check it out. If anyone has other suggestions, please do let
me know.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 10:19 PM Geoffrey Thomas <
geoffreythomas@onetel.com>
wrote:

Hi,
Have you tried ClassicCmp?

http://classiccmp.org/

Seems to be a real hive of info of the sort you're looking for.

Geoff.

On 24/11/2020 15:42, cheater cheater wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one, so
I
thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm
looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38
(or
contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM
32xx,
37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable
computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to
see
how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the
website which should not be named, especially any forums that could have
enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to part
with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
cheater cheater
 

Much more than that :) I want to know how they work inside, there's a bunch
of interesting stuff going on but the information isn't really accessible.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 3:44 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

I used to have an IBM 5100, what would you like to know about it? Flip the
front switch to select APL or BASIC, turn it on and start typing. That was
it. BTW you should know that the 5100 and similar equipment is HIGHLY
sought after and brings a very high price, like bring an equal volume of
money if you want to buy one. I sold my 5100 to Eric Smith at
www.brouhaha.com many years ago.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 4:49 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com
wrote:

Thanks, I'll check it out. If anyone has other suggestions, please do let
me know.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 10:19 PM Geoffrey Thomas <
geoffreythomas@onetel.com>
wrote:

Hi,
Have you tried ClassicCmp?

http://classiccmp.org/

Seems to be a real hive of info of the sort you're looking for.

Geoff.

On 24/11/2020 15:42, cheater cheater wrote:
Hi all,
sorry for the offtopic message, not sure where to go with this one,
so
I
thought the smart heads around here might be connected somewhere. I'm
looking to get a 70s IBM terminal, either for a System/3, /6, /32, /38
(or
contemporary), 3600 FCS, a Display Station (or terminal) for the IBM
32xx,
37xx, 49xx, 52xx, 65xx, or 74xx, or an IBM 5100/5110/5120 portable
computer. I'm interested to see how they were built and would like to
see
how it is to use them. If you know any good places to go other than the
website which should not be named, especially any forums that could
have
enthusiasts of the same hardware, or if you know someone willing to
part
with one such machine, let me know please.

Thanks!
Jeff Dutky
 

A quick look at ePay reveals 3 IBM 5110s, and two 5120s all asking in excess of $1200 (all but one are OBO, so you might be able to get a discount). Shipping on these things is going to be bear, however. There are lots of watchers on each one.

The 5120 is especially interesting looking, with a larger display, two vertically mounted 8 inch floppies, and a generally "rounder" look to the case: the thing just screams 1975. If I had any interest in these machines I might be tempted to pick one up.
cheater cheater
 

Those prices are not reasonable, and the sellers do not accept offers,
contrary to what's advertised on eBay.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 4:57 PM Jeff Dutky <jeff.dutky@gmail.com> wrote:

A quick look at ePay reveals 3 IBM 5110s, and two 5120s all asking in
excess of $1200 (all but one are OBO, so you might be able to get a
discount). Shipping on these things is going to be bear, however. There are
lots of watchers on each one.

The 5120 is especially interesting looking, with a larger display, two
vertically mounted 8 inch floppies, and a generally "rounder" look to the
case: the thing just screams 1975. If I had any interest in these machines
I might be tempted to pick one up.
Jeff Dutky
 

The prices are more than I'm willing to pay, but there are a bunch of mechanical keyboard whackos out there inflating the prices for this kind of stuff. The market will do what the market does, whether the motives of the participants is in any way rational.

I also suspect that there is a large element of supply & demand at work: for lots of reasons this kind of equipment is becoming rarer and rarer, and that's simply got to drive the price up if there is any kind of demand. The prices would certainly have been a lot lower a decade or two ago, but those days are gone. You might also be able to find some of these things at a hamfest for lower prices, if you can find a hamfest to go to (I haven't seen a hamfest in my area in many years), but even there you are likely to see increasing scarcity of older equipment.

Finally, my impression is that IBM equipment generally didn't make its way into private hands, both because these systems were marketed almost exclusively to corporate and institutional buyers, and because IBM preferred to lease equipment rather than sell it outright. This had the effect of radically restricting the aftermarket on such things, which is reflected in current scarcities. You'll have similar difficulty finding systems from other manufacturers in the same space (e.g. Burroughs, Honeywell, Univac, Sperry, etc.).
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