Topics

New 2465 Seimens brushless motor

victor.silva
 

I am not associated with this seller.

I found a seller on ebay selling the Seimens 1AD3001-0A brushless motors for a reasonable price.
The shipping is steep for USA Parcel Post, but the total cost to buy is ok.

These motors are used in most of the Tek 2465 and some 2465A, 2465B(w/option 01).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-1AD3001-OA-Motor-10-15volts/274013390896

--Victor

Greg Muir
 

It is Tek part number 147-0035-00 and will fit Tek 465, 465B, 466, 464, 475, 475A, 475M, 2445 & 2465 series scopes.

Greg

n4buq
 

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that same motor is used in the HP 8640B (and, possibly, other models) as well.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "victor.silva via Groups.Io" <daejon1=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 9:15:44 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] New 2465 Seimens brushless motor

I am not associated with this seller.

I found a seller on ebay selling the Seimens 1AD3001-0A brushless motors for
a reasonable price.
The shipping is steep for USA Parcel Post, but the total cost to buy is ok.

These motors are used in most of the Tek 2465 and some 2465A, 2465B(w/option
01).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-1AD3001-OA-Motor-10-15volts/274013390896

--Victor



GerryR
 

I have a 2465A but don't have any idea where a motor like that is used. Any help??
Thanks,
GerryR
KK4GER

----- Original Message -----
From: "n4buq" <n4buq@...>
To: <TekScopes@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New 2465 Seimens brushless motor


I'm not 100% sure, but I think that same motor is used in the HP 8640B (and, possibly, other models) as well.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "victor.silva via Groups.Io" <daejon1=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 9:15:44 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] New 2465 Seimens brushless motor

I am not associated with this seller.

I found a seller on ebay selling the Seimens 1AD3001-0A brushless motors for
a reasonable price.
The shipping is steep for USA Parcel Post, but the total cost to buy is ok.

These motors are used in most of the Tek 2465 and some 2465A, 2465B(w/option
01).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siemens-1AD3001-OA-Motor-10-15volts/274013390896

--Victor



Greg Muir
 

Barry,

The fan in the HP 8640B is a simple 2-terminal DC motor. The Siemens device is a 13-terminal brushless Hall Effect motor that requires external excitation from a more elaborate switching driver scheme.

Greg

n4buq
 

Hi Greg,

The P/N for the fan motor in the 8640B manual (TM 9-4935-601-14-7&P) shows it to be 1AD3001-OA.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Muir via Groups.Io" <big_sky_explorer=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:27:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New 2465 Seimens brushless motor

Barry,

The fan in the HP 8640B is a simple 2-terminal DC motor. The Siemens device
is a 13-terminal brushless Hall Effect motor that requires external
excitation from a more elaborate switching driver scheme.

Greg



victor.silva
 

GerryR,

There are very few 2465As that use this motor, unless you have OPT 01, the DMM option.
You can tell externally if yours has this motor or not by the small vent on the rear cover.
Looking at the back cover of the scope, the inner vent next to the power cord - if is the same height as the left edge vent then you have a muffin fan and you don't need this motor.
If the vent near the power cord is about 2 inches high your scope use this fan.
Note, if your scope is working, keeping cool and not making a squealing noise you will not need this fan either.

--Victor

Greg Muir
 

Barry,

It appears that there is sort of a judgment call on the fan motor used in the 8640B signal generator.

Looking in the 8640A manual that I have (08640-90114) the motor is definitely called out and illustrated in the schematic as of the brushless design.

However, there are differences seen in the 8640B documentation. I referred to a 2-volume manual set for the 8640B number 08640-90215 dated May 91 and also noted as a “Mark-up Copy” that applies to serials 2520A through 2923A plus any included updates for later serials.

Referring to volume 1, there is a call-out in the parts list on page 6-117 of 2 DC style motors:

For serial numbers 2939A and below:
3160-0453 “FAN-TBAX 23-CFM 12VDC .25KV-DIEL” Mfr code 28480. Mfr part number 3160-0453
(Mfr code 28480 is HP)

For serial numbers 2939A and above:
3160-0497 “”FAN-TBAX 23-CFM 12VDC” Mfr code 11039, Mfr part number 612
(Any reference for Mfr code 11039 cannot be found)

However, on page 8B-123 titled “Service Sheet 19” there is a description of the -5.2V supply & fan driver assembly A18 where it describes the brushless motor & associated driver.

However in volume 2 if you go to Service Sheet 19 you will find a DC motor being driven by a simple DC controller.

As for the part number for a brushless motor, I could not find it in either volume.

It’s not that I don’t believe that a brushless motor design was used in the 8640B since there is a hint of the description of one but it also appears that HP once used a DC motor design as well. It looks like a judgment call on this one.

Greg

n4buq
 

Hi Greg,

I assume HP had two different designs for the fan during the run of the instrument. I've had three of them and I'm pretty sure all three have had the Siemens motor.

One of the fan assemblies for the 8640B sold recently on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333071972966

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Muir via Groups.Io" <big_sky_explorer=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 10:45:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New 2465 Seimens brushless motor

Barry,

It appears that there is sort of a judgment call on the fan motor used in the
8640B signal generator.

Looking in the 8640A manual that I have (08640-90114) the motor is definitely
called out and illustrated in the schematic as of the brushless design.

However, there are differences seen in the 8640B documentation. I referred
to a 2-volume manual set for the 8640B number 08640-90215 dated May 91 and
also noted as a “Mark-up Copy” that applies to serials 2520A through 2923A
plus any included updates for later serials.

Referring to volume 1, there is a call-out in the parts list on page 6-117 of
2 DC style motors:

For serial numbers 2939A and below:
3160-0453 “FAN-TBAX 23-CFM 12VDC .25KV-DIEL” Mfr code 28480. Mfr part
number 3160-0453
(Mfr code 28480 is HP)

For serial numbers 2939A and above:
3160-0497 “”FAN-TBAX 23-CFM 12VDC” Mfr code 11039, Mfr part number 612
(Any reference for Mfr code 11039 cannot be found)

However, on page 8B-123 titled “Service Sheet 19” there is a description of
the -5.2V supply & fan driver assembly A18 where it describes the brushless
motor & associated driver.

However in volume 2 if you go to Service Sheet 19 you will find a DC motor
being driven by a simple DC controller.

As for the part number for a brushless motor, I could not find it in either
volume.

It’s not that I don’t believe that a brushless motor design was used in the
8640B since there is a hint of the description of one but it also appears
that HP once used a DC motor design as well. It looks like a judgment call
on this one.

Greg



Glenn Little
 

Data for 3160-0497is located on web page:

https://www.wbparts.com/rfq/4140-01-081-6260.html

Glenn

On 2/23/2020 11:45 PM, Greg Muir via Groups.Io wrote:
Barry,

It appears that there is sort of a judgment call on the fan motor used in the 8640B signal generator.

Looking in the 8640A manual that I have (08640-90114) the motor is definitely called out and illustrated in the schematic as of the brushless design.

However, there are differences seen in the 8640B documentation. I referred to a 2-volume manual set for the 8640B number 08640-90215 dated May 91 and also noted as a “Mark-up Copy” that applies to serials 2520A through 2923A plus any included updates for later serials.

Referring to volume 1, there is a call-out in the parts list on page 6-117 of 2 DC style motors:

For serial numbers 2939A and below:
3160-0453 “FAN-TBAX 23-CFM 12VDC .25KV-DIEL” Mfr code 28480. Mfr part number 3160-0453
(Mfr code 28480 is HP)

For serial numbers 2939A and above:
3160-0497 “”FAN-TBAX 23-CFM 12VDC” Mfr code 11039, Mfr part number 612
(Any reference for Mfr code 11039 cannot be found)

However, on page 8B-123 titled “Service Sheet 19” there is a description of the -5.2V supply & fan driver assembly A18 where it describes the brushless motor & associated driver.

However in volume 2 if you go to Service Sheet 19 you will find a DC motor being driven by a simple DC controller.

As for the part number for a brushless motor, I could not find it in either volume.

It’s not that I don’t believe that a brushless motor design was used in the 8640B since there is a hint of the description of one but it also appears that HP once used a DC motor design as well. It looks like a judgment call on this one.

Greg

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"

victor.silva
 

I found out that the guy selling these Seimens motors got them from a storage unit auction.
Since he is from Portland OR, I assume the storage unit must have been from a Tek employee.

He did tell me that the same unit also had thousands of genuine police badges.
He was selling them on ebay also until those auctions were removed.
I think current badges cannot be sold, only obsolete ones.

He initially had almost one hundred of those motors in the original trays.

--Victor

joeschm@...
 

This same motor is used in the Tek 7904A. I purchased a couple a few weeks ago. One is installed and working great.

As has been mentioned, shipping is somewhat high.

Mlynch001
 

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 09:41 AM, <joeschm@...> wrote:


As has been mentioned, shipping is somewhat high.
Becoming the "norm" on E-bay, outrageous shipping charges on many items. This seller actually has his item priced cheap, for a new motor, and even with the shipping, it is a good price. At least I thought so, since I bought one to keep as a spare.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

victor.silva
 

The seller has little experience with ebay and has no idea on how to setup multiple items shipping.
I was the one that bought 20 (at a discount) and initially the shipping was $320 for parcel post!

It took forever for him to revise the invoice with continuous hand holding all the way.

One note on these motors, not just from this seller, but I've seen this issue on all the NOS Seimens motors I've used;
The terminals do not solder well. I've tried fluxing, long heating, etc., the terminals just don't wet well.

The only solution I have found was to dip the terminal for 10 secs in 10% HCl. Then neutralize with baking soda solution and dry well.
After this the solder would wet very well.
I know Chuck Harris will caution against this, but I believe his concerns are that once you apply HCl to the motors, if any vapors or liquid
creep inside the motor it will be toast.
I would love to hear of any suggestions or if anyone has success soldering these without using HCl to clean the terminals.

Thanks,
--Victor

Paul Amaranth
 

Yes, AND you get taxed on shipping as well.

Still, the total price is not terrible so I grabbed a spare as well.

PaulA

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 08:18:47AM -0700, Mlynch001 wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 09:41 AM, <joeschm@...> wrote:


As has been mentioned, shipping is somewhat high.
Becoming the "norm" on E-bay, outrageous shipping charges on many items. This seller actually has his item priced cheap, for a new motor, and even with the shipping, it is a good price. At least I thought so, since I bought one to keep as a spare.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix & Windows

Mlynch001
 

Paul,

Don't get me started on taxes. The government now gets their pound of flesh, regardless. All of this stems from the brick and mortar retailers lobbying for taxing online purchases and the ever growing LUST for $$$ of the typical government. Politicians win, both ways, more tax $$$ to spend and lots of money coming (under the table) from the aforementioned lobbyists

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Chuck Harris
 

One hates to be a forgone conclusion...

Perhaps using killed HCl, also known as
zinc chloride. killed HCl is what you get
when you dissolve as much zinc into HCl as
you can. It eliminates that nasty evaporation
problem that HCl has.

Zinc Chloride is the active ingredient in the
old soldering flux tins from the days of steel
chassis TV's. It was a mixture of Zinc Chloride
and petroleum jelly, with something to keep them
from separating out.

-Chuck Harris

victor.silva via Groups.Io wrote:

The seller has little experience with ebay and has no idea on how to setup multiple items shipping.
I was the one that bought 20 (at a discount) and initially the shipping was $320 for parcel post!

It took forever for him to revise the invoice with continuous hand holding all the way.

One note on these motors, not just from this seller, but I've seen this issue on all the NOS Seimens motors I've used;
The terminals do not solder well. I've tried fluxing, long heating, etc., the terminals just don't wet well.

The only solution I have found was to dip the terminal for 10 secs in 10% HCl. Then neutralize with baking soda solution and dry well.
After this the solder would wet very well.
I know Chuck Harris will caution against this, but I believe his concerns are that once you apply HCl to the motors, if any vapors or liquid
creep inside the motor it will be toast.
I would love to hear of any suggestions or if anyone has success soldering these without using HCl to clean the terminals.

Thanks,
--Victor



victor.silva
 

Ok, I'll try both Zinc dissolved in some HCl and Zinc Chloride soldering paste and report back here on the results.

--Victor

PAUL KOBY
 

Take a Dremmel with one of those abrasive discs and run it lightly  across the connectors and then try to solder them.
Works for me almost every time.
P.K.Ka5obi

victor.silva
 

Paul,

I've tried that, sorry does not work at all.

--Victor