Topics

Morning fun - working scope with no tubes?

Jamie Ostrowski
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264469242144?ul_noapp=true

Tektronix Type 533 Oscilloscope TESTED . Condition is Used. The unit does work and is in great shape. (No tubes in the scope) If interested in the scope itself we can work something out. You are buying this with no tubes. The unit works with tubes.

And it's only $400.

greenboxmaven
 

AUDIOPHOOL ATTACK!! The seller is offering the tubes in another lot. If you look at that offering, you will see that the photo has been crudely edited to remove about 1/3 of the tubes. Batavia is not too far from me, I might give $30.00 for the scope and cart. Wait and see if anybody buys any of it.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 9/18/19 8:54 AM, Jamie Ostrowski wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264469242144?ul_noapp=true

Tektronix Type 533 Oscilloscope TESTED . Condition is Used. The unit does work and is in great shape. (No tubes in the scope) If interested in the scope itself we can work something out. You are buying this with no tubes. The unit works with tubes.

And it's only $400.


randolphbeebe@...
 

What a shame, the 533 is a nice, general purpose scope.

Dave Voorhis
 

On 18 Sep 2019, at 13:54, Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...> wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264469242144?ul_noapp=true

Tektronix Type 533 Oscilloscope TESTED . Condition is Used. The unit does work and is in great shape. (No tubes in the scope) If interested in the scope itself we can work something out. You are buying this with no tubes. The unit works with tubes.

And it's only $400.
Sad that it’s sold sans tubes, but better that way than what some of the audiophools do: pull the 6DJ8 tubes to sell them and discard the rest. :-(

Jamie Ostrowski
 

I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of the
hands of the tube harvesters. I know when it comes to sell any of my
classic equipment, I'd offer it up here on the Tekscopes list first long
before I would ever list it on e-pay, just because I know that people here
are enthusiastic about the classic scopes.

I have given some consideration to putting up some kind of free site on my
server just for collectors to advertise their scopes/plugins, but not sure
how to keep the site from becoming a target for harvesters. Maybe I could
do something like manually approve accounts to the site for people who have
demonstrated a sincere enthusiasm for the classics in one form or another
in the past via tekscopes mail archives or something like that. Not sure.

It wouldn't have to be a big/complicated site, nor generate a lot of
traffic. Just more for a circle of collectors to trade gear.

Ebay has become mostly ridiculous, in my opinion.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 8:47 AM Dave Voorhis <voorhis@...> wrote:

On 18 Sep 2019, at 13:54, Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...>
wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264469242144?ul_noapp=true

Tektronix Type 533 Oscilloscope TESTED . Condition is Used. The unit
does work and is in great shape. (No tubes in the scope) If interested in
the scope itself we can work something out. You are buying this with no
tubes. The unit works with tubes.

And it's only $400.
Sad that it’s sold sans tubes, but better that way than what some of the
audiophools do: pull the 6DJ8 tubes to sell them and discard the rest. :-(



John Williams
 

No danger of any Tek gear I own being subject to sale. To paraphrase, you can have my scopes when you pry them from my cold dead hands. Not entirely joking.

Chuck Harris
 

The easiest way is to pay real money, and to charge real money
for them.

Anything short of that is giving them to the tube harvesters.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:

I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of the
hands of the tube harvesters. I know when it comes to sell any of my
classic equipment, I'd offer it up here on the Tekscopes list first long
before I would ever list it on e-pay, just because I know that people here
are enthusiastic about the classic scopes.

I have given some consideration to putting up some kind of free site on my
server just for collectors to advertise their scopes/plugins, but not sure
how to keep the site from becoming a target for harvesters. Maybe I could
do something like manually approve accounts to the site for people who have
demonstrated a sincere enthusiasm for the classics in one form or another
in the past via tekscopes mail archives or something like that. Not sure.

It wouldn't have to be a big/complicated site, nor generate a lot of
traffic. Just more for a circle of collectors to trade gear.

Ebay has become mostly ridiculous, in my opinion.

Jamie Ostrowski
 

Perhaps, but that solution is probably much easier to accept by folks who
have a couple hundred in their basement as compared to others just
beginning to collect.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:27 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

The easiest way is to pay real money, and to charge real money
for them.

Anything short of that is giving them to the tube harvesters.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of
the
hands of the tube harvesters. I know when it comes to sell any of my
classic equipment, I'd offer it up here on the Tekscopes list first long
before I would ever list it on e-pay, just because I know that people
here
are enthusiastic about the classic scopes.

I have given some consideration to putting up some kind of free site on
my
server just for collectors to advertise their scopes/plugins, but not
sure
how to keep the site from becoming a target for harvesters. Maybe I could
do something like manually approve accounts to the site for people who
have
demonstrated a sincere enthusiasm for the classics in one form or another
in the past via tekscopes mail archives or something like that. Not sure.

It wouldn't have to be a big/complicated site, nor generate a lot of
traffic. Just more for a circle of collectors to trade gear.

Ebay has become mostly ridiculous, in my opinion.



Jamie Ostrowski
 

I did give that plan some more thought. I don't think it would work. Let's
say everyone increases the price of the oscilloscopes to protect them from
tube hoarders. A 535 oscilloscope now goes for, say, $400 in tattered but
complete working order.

Now what will happen is the scavengers will buy it for $400, rip their
tubes out, and then put the remains back on the market for $300. And it
will sell at $300 because if audio tubes are added, it will become worth
$400 again.

So really, nothing would change, except for the going price level.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:31 PM Jamie Ostrowski via Groups.Io
<jamie.ostrowski=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Perhaps, but that solution is probably much easier to accept by folks who
have a couple hundred in their basement as compared to others just
beginning to collect.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:27 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

The easiest way is to pay real money, and to charge real money
for them.

Anything short of that is giving them to the tube harvesters.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of
the
hands of the tube harvesters. I know when it comes to sell any of my
classic equipment, I'd offer it up here on the Tekscopes list first
long
before I would ever list it on e-pay, just because I know that people
here
are enthusiastic about the classic scopes.

I have given some consideration to putting up some kind of free site on
my
server just for collectors to advertise their scopes/plugins, but not
sure
how to keep the site from becoming a target for harvesters. Maybe I
could
do something like manually approve accounts to the site for people who
have
demonstrated a sincere enthusiasm for the classics in one form or
another
in the past via tekscopes mail archives or something like that. Not
sure.

It wouldn't have to be a big/complicated site, nor generate a lot of
traffic. Just more for a circle of collectors to trade gear.

Ebay has become mostly ridiculous, in my opinion.





Jamie Ostrowski
 

And lastly, before I go close out my day and drown in a sea of random
youtube videos for the evening, as cool as they are, they are just
oscilloscopes, and there's just a lot of other cool vintage gear out there
to attract buyers. When they start hitting $500, people say "well, that's
really cool but...look at all the other cool vintage gear I could get for
that."... So...that has a big impact as well. Ultimately, you can really
increase the price, but people are going to look for other things to
restore.



On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 11:09 PM Jamie Ostrowski via Groups.Io
<jamie.ostrowski=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I did give that plan some more thought. I don't think it would work. Let's
say everyone increases the price of the oscilloscopes to protect them from
tube hoarders. A 535 oscilloscope now goes for, say, $400 in tattered but
complete working order.

Now what will happen is the scavengers will buy it for $400, rip their
tubes out, and then put the remains back on the market for $300. And it
will sell at $300 because if audio tubes are added, it will become worth
$400 again.

So really, nothing would change, except for the going price level.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:31 PM Jamie Ostrowski via Groups.Io
<jamie.ostrowski=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Perhaps, but that solution is probably much easier to accept by folks who
have a couple hundred in their basement as compared to others just
beginning to collect.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:27 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
wrote:

The easiest way is to pay real money, and to charge real money
for them.

Anything short of that is giving them to the tube harvesters.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out
of
the
hands of the tube harvesters. I know when it comes to sell any of my
classic equipment, I'd offer it up here on the Tekscopes list first
long
before I would ever list it on e-pay, just because I know that people
here
are enthusiastic about the classic scopes.

I have given some consideration to putting up some kind of free site
on
my
server just for collectors to advertise their scopes/plugins, but not
sure
how to keep the site from becoming a target for harvesters. Maybe I
could
do something like manually approve accounts to the site for people
who
have
demonstrated a sincere enthusiasm for the classics in one form or
another
in the past via tekscopes mail archives or something like that. Not
sure.

It wouldn't have to be a big/complicated site, nor generate a lot of
traffic. Just more for a circle of collectors to trade gear.

Ebay has become mostly ridiculous, in my opinion.







Chuck Harris
 

Then how can we get upset when a tube harvester
does what comes natural?

The price is related to demand and availability.
Each unit that is tube harvested, reduces the
availability.

The only part of the equation that is currently
stalled is the "increases the price" part. Thus
far, we treasure these scopes, but we value them
like they are trash.

We want them, but are too cheap to pay for them. We
just complain, but don't increase the prices we are
willing to pay.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:

And lastly, before I go close out my day and drown in a sea of random
youtube videos for the evening, as cool as they are, they are just
oscilloscopes, and there's just a lot of other cool vintage gear out there
to attract buyers. When they start hitting $500, people say "well, that's
really cool but...look at all the other cool vintage gear I could get for
that."... So...that has a big impact as well. Ultimately, you can really
increase the price, but people are going to look for other things to
restore.

Harvey White
 

Perhaps we don't have the money?

How much is a used 535 worth?

Firstly as a scope.

Secondly as a collector's object to be restored.

Thirdly a source of oh so valuable tubes.

Fourth as a source of spare parts for a working unit.

What would you suggest as "reasonable" prices we might pay....?

Harvey

On 9/19/2019 7:38 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Then how can we get upset when a tube harvester
does what comes natural?

The price is related to demand and availability.
Each unit that is tube harvested, reduces the
availability.

The only part of the equation that is currently
stalled is the "increases the price" part. Thus
far, we treasure these scopes, but we value them
like they are trash.

We want them, but are too cheap to pay for them. We
just complain, but don't increase the prices we are
willing to pay.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
And lastly, before I go close out my day and drown in a sea of random
youtube videos for the evening, as cool as they are, they are just
oscilloscopes, and there's just a lot of other cool vintage gear out there
to attract buyers. When they start hitting $500, people say "well, that's
really cool but...look at all the other cool vintage gear I could get for
that."... So...that has a big impact as well. Ultimately, you can really
increase the price, but people are going to look for other things to
restore.

Jamie Ostrowski
 

Yes, that is a good point, Chuck. I guess I am being a bit unfair and
selfish. Unfortunately right now I'm in a situation where I have to be
pretty frugal and it's frustrating but that's nobody else's problem but
mine.

I guess it wouldn't be such a bad thing to buy a unit that has had just the
audio tubes removed and to buy a replacement set. I suppose the unit would
have to be calibrated again.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 6:39 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

Then how can we get upset when a tube harvester
does what comes natural?

The price is related to demand and availability.
Each unit that is tube harvested, reduces the
availability.

The only part of the equation that is currently
stalled is the "increases the price" part. Thus
far, we treasure these scopes, but we value them
like they are trash.

We want them, but are too cheap to pay for them. We
just complain, but don't increase the prices we are
willing to pay.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
And lastly, before I go close out my day and drown in a sea of random
youtube videos for the evening, as cool as they are, they are just
oscilloscopes, and there's just a lot of other cool vintage gear out
there
to attract buyers. When they start hitting $500, people say "well, that's
really cool but...look at all the other cool vintage gear I could get for
that."... So...that has a big impact as well. Ultimately, you can really
increase the price, but people are going to look for other things to
restore.


bobkrassa
 

Some tube scavengers are good for our hobby. They are the ones who are set up to market the rest of the parts of a scope back to us. With the aging of folks like Stan who acuumulated lots of Tektronix parts early on, our sources of parts are diminishing. Given the time involved in disassembly, organizing and selling, I doubt that a tube scavenger can pay for than $100 for a scope.

An example would be ebay seller mercedesman6572. I have bought a few parts from him over the years and note that his principal business appears to be tubes. Most of the tubes are in original boxes so not harvested, but other tubes may well be from scopes. Even though a few tubes have high prices, the whole endeavor must be as much a hobby as a business. If you look at his website, there are a lot of Tektronix parts under $10. I will say that I have parted out a couple of 500 series scopes myself to have a parts supply, but it is a real challenge to keep track of those parts and the time I would have to spend to organize and sell them would be impractical.

One approach that I would like to suggest is to inquire whether a purchaser actually has a business website where one can confirm that they are not just discarding the rest of the scope. If so, selling the scope to them for $100 or less is better than our family throwing it out when we can't remember what a scope is.

73s Bob Krassa ACØJL

Keith Erickson
 

At least you know where an in town parts depot is! LOL

Keitj

On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...> wrote:

Yes, that is a good point, Chuck. I guess I am being a bit unfair and
selfish. Unfortunately right now I'm in a situation where I have to be
pretty frugal and it's frustrating but that's nobody else's problem but
mine.

I guess it wouldn't be such a bad thing to buy a unit that has had just the
audio tubes removed and to buy a replacement set. I suppose the unit would
have to be calibrated again.



On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 6:39 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

Then how can we get upset when a tube harvester
does what comes natural?

The price is related to demand and availability.
Each unit that is tube harvested, reduces the
availability.

The only part of the equation that is currently
stalled is the "increases the price" part. Thus
far, we treasure these scopes, but we value them
like they are trash.

We want them, but are too cheap to pay for them. We
just complain, but don't increase the prices we are
willing to pay.

-Chuck Harris

Jamie Ostrowski wrote:
And lastly, before I go close out my day and drown in a sea of random
youtube videos for the evening, as cool as they are, they are just
oscilloscopes, and there's just a lot of other cool vintage gear out
there
to attract buyers. When they start hitting $500, people say "well, that's
really cool but...look at all the other cool vintage gear I could get for
that."... So...that has a big impact as well. Ultimately, you can really
increase the price, but people are going to look for other things to
restore.



Chuck Harris
 

I am certain there is a reason for every person that
says no, rather than yes, to a higher priced 535.

Just as I may say no to a higher priced antique car.

My point is, that if you don't own it, you get no say
in what the person that does own it does with it.

Complaining about a tube harvester, harvesting tubes
because he sees a higher price for the tubes than
anyone is willing to pay for the scope as a whole,
seems fatuous at best.

If one doesn't like that the scopes get their tubes
removed and sold, one should offer a higher price for
the scope with tubes than the audiofools pay for the
tubes, without the scope.

The economic model will change to disfavor tube
harvesting almost instantly.

If you want to know what a reasonable price is, do an
inventory of the tubes in the scope, and check the sold
prices for the same tubes on ebay. Then make your offer
for the 535 be more than the sum of those tube prices
on ebay.

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:

Perhaps we don't have the money?

How much is a used 535 worth?

Firstly as a scope.

Secondly as a collector's object to be restored.

Thirdly a source of oh so valuable tubes.

Fourth as a source of spare parts for a working unit.

What would you suggest as "reasonable" prices we might pay....?

Harvey

Roy Thistle
 

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 07:13 PM, Jamie Ostrowski wrote:


I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of the
hands of the tube harvesters.
Hi All:
The only way I found to do it was to offer more ( some times way more ) than what the tube hounds were willing to pay. Some people here are suggesting that solution.
In my experience, these tube harvesting guys are hard-bitten. And as far as I can reason, irrationally motivated by flummery they believe, or foist on their buyers.
Throwing money at the problem, will only be cause for asking for more money to be thrown.
I surmise, that the copious number of individuals willing to claim or believe, that brand X 12AX7 et. al. gives "a warm sweet chocolatey sound, with a hint of nutmeg" won't be deterred by the rational economic principle of diminishing returns. Quite the opposite: they will be thinking they are paying for a premium quality of sound that no one else has. The emperor is always willing to pay more for new clothes.
The only way, in my opinion, to rectify this situation is for common sense, and rationality to prevail.
Roy

Glenn Little
 

When these fanatics pay $2500.00 for a 1.5 meter power cord, where is the limit for tubes.

See:?? https://www.essentialsound.com/essence-power-cord.htm

Glenn

On 9/19/2019 4:28 PM, Roy Thistle wrote:
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 07:13 PM, Jamie Ostrowski wrote:

I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of the
hands of the tube harvesters.
Hi All:
The only way I found to do it was to offer more ( some times way more ) than what the tube hounds were willing to pay. Some people here are suggesting that solution.
In my experience, these tube harvesting guys are hard-bitten. And as far as I can reason, irrationally motivated by flummery they believe, or foist on their buyers.
Throwing money at the problem, will only be cause for asking for more money to be thrown.
I surmise, that the copious number of individuals willing to claim or believe, that brand X 12AX7 et. al. gives "a warm sweet chocolatey sound, with a hint of nutmeg" won't be deterred by the rational economic principle of diminishing returns. Quite the opposite: they will be thinking they are paying for a premium quality of sound that no one else has. The emperor is always willing to pay more for new clothes.
The only way, in my opinion, to rectify this situation is for common sense, and rationality to prevail.
Roy


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"

John Williams
 

I will not buy any instrument that has had the tubes removed. I bought a 555 power supply that the seller had removed the tubes to show how clean it was. (It was brand new in the original box, so I don’t know what he was trying to prove). Anyway it didn’t work when I tested it. Careful inspection showed that two tubes were put back in the wrong socket. Luckily there was no damage but there could have been.

And of course if the tubes were removed what else has been lifted. It is very hard sometimes to determine if a component has been snipped out.

Tubes in my opinion are no big deal anyway. There are literally millions of new ones out there in their original boxes. One guy I met at a hamfest told me he had 4 semi trailers in his yard packed to their ceilings with nib radio tubes. He couldn’t get rid of them. So why would I want to buy used, untested and dirty tubes when I can get new ones a lot cheaper? The answer is I don’t.

This year I have only had to buy two tube types. I needed 6AN8s so I bought 2 for 20 bucks. When they arrived the seller had found he had 4, so he sent all of them. They had been tested and tested fine here. Same for a pair of 6080s that I bought because I liked to have a couple more spares. When I saw a pair of 12AX7s listed for $400, I actually pissed myself laughing. Sorry, too much information.

Paul Amaranth
 

Well that was fun reading. Amazing how it doesn't say how the house
wiring installed by a hung over junior apprentice using the cheapest
available parts affects your sound quality.

There's probably a market for cryogenicly treated romex. Now I know
how to fund my retirement :-)

Paul

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 05:31:11PM -0400, Glenn Little wrote:
When these fanatics pay $2500.00 for a 1.5 meter power cord, where is the
limit for tubes.

See:?? https://www.essentialsound.com/essence-power-cord.htm

Glenn

On 9/19/2019 4:28 PM, Roy Thistle wrote:
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 07:13 PM, Jamie Ostrowski wrote:

I wish there was a way to find a way to keep the classic scopes out of the
hands of the tube harvesters.
Hi All:
The only way I found to do it was to offer more ( some times way more ) than what the tube hounds were willing to pay. Some people here are suggesting that solution.
In my experience, these tube harvesting guys are hard-bitten. And as far as I can reason, irrationally motivated by flummery they believe, or foist on their buyers.
Throwing money at the problem, will only be cause for asking for more money to be thrown.
I surmise, that the copious number of individuals willing to claim or believe, that brand X 12AX7 et. al. gives "a warm sweet chocolatey sound, with a hint of nutmeg" won't be deterred by the rational economic principle of diminishing returns. Quite the opposite: they will be thinking they are paying for a premium quality of sound that no one else has. The emperor is always willing to pay more for new clothes.
The only way, in my opinion, to rectify this situation is for common sense, and rationality to prevail.
Roy



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"





!DSPAM:5d83f3bc200491649757610!
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix & Windows