Topics

Message to satbeginner and Saroj Pradhan re: Tektronix 2230


 

Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF





--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Chuck Harris
 

Dennis,

Are you serious? Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads,
but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem
to me on topic. Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less
than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:

Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF





Dick
 

I hesitated to speak out, but ... I found the posts to be interesting and
informative.

73, Dick, W1KSZ
________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:55 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Message to satbeginner and Saroj Pradhan re: Tektronix 2230

Dennis,

Are you serious? Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads,
but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem
to me on topic. Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less
than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF





tn_tucker@bellsouth.net
 

Dennis, I enjoy the knowledge I gain from this conversion and would like it to continue. A lot of us feel the same. Thank you Tom Tucker  W4TUC

On Monday, August 3, 2020, 10:26:16 PM EDT, Dick <w1ksz@...> wrote:

I hesitated to speak out, but ... I found the posts to be interesting and
informative.

73, Dick, W1KSZ
________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 6:55 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Message to satbeginner and Saroj Pradhan re: Tektronix 2230

Dennis,

Are you serious?  Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads,
but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is  bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem
to me on topic.  Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less
than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF





David Kuhn
 

..and I was interested in their experience winding the transformer. I
would never have the patience for that myself!

Dave

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 9:55 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

Dennis,

Are you serious? Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads,
but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem
to me on topic. Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less
than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic,
consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on
TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests
regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than
through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF







Stephen
 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 03:09 AM, David Kuhn wrote:


..and I was interested in their experience winding the transformer. I
would never have the patience for that myself!

Dave
I personally would love to know how, and wind transformers too. Very interesting stuff indeed.


Greg Muir
 

I’ll probably take some flak over this.

Yes, on-topic discussions are fine as far as I am concerned but it seems to be the nature of others to predictably wander off the path and start discussions about the creation of the universe, different brands of steel wool, the effectiveness of lawn fertilizer, swimming pool maintenance and other comparable dribble.

It would be nice if everyone kept in the back of their minds that these sites are created to share pertinent information related to the topic at hand, not as a “chat room” in which to wander on through the idiosyncrasies about the meaning of life. We’re here to share our technical knowledge to help others learn and, in return, find answers to our own questions in a semi-professional way.

I do understand that there may be a share of members who seen to be hopelessly trapped in their homes due to the ongoing pandemic but if the urge strikes one to post unrelated thoughts it best be done via off-list contact with the person you wish to share those thoughts with.

I may be wrong but I feel that Dennis may have developed a little impatience from looking at the entire picture, not just only the posts between “satbeginner” and Saroj Pradhan. I, myself see on goings in many posts every week that allude to unrelated conversation when a topic finally jumps the rails and ends up continuing for dozens more postings of no relational value whatsoever.

Dennis may have happened to reach that “point” where he felt it was time to say something. We all exhibit that behavior when something finally irritates the devil out of us and we finally have to take action and say something.

As for myself, I do receive the digest mode via email and seldom go to the website because of the numerous OT posts that follow. It gives me a quick indication as to when to stop looking at topics when they veer off course – which seems to be quite frequently. I personally do not have untold amounts of time to waste.

Greg

PS – Maybe it is time to create a “TekScopeschatroom@groups.io”


 

Hi Chuck,
The first thing I can say is I always appreciate you input.

I did receive a complaint about it so I took a closer look. What I saw was an awful lot of messages with only two individuals involved. I was concerned that others might find it annoying.

It was a judgement call. But since many others indicate they are benefitting from it please accept my apology.

Dennis W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 6:55 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Message to satbeginner and Saroj Pradhan re: Tektronix 2230

Dennis,

Are you serious? Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads, but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem to me on topic. Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF








--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


Chuck Harris
 

Hi Dennis,

I didn't mean to make trouble, but I thought we were trying
to encourage newbies, and helping them often requires a lot
of one-on-one hand holding. I have done this myself many times,
as have others. Satbeginner is anything but a beginner, and
does a very nice job of helping others get their footing.

If they were diverging off to talk about trucks, or honey badgers,
I could see your point, but in my scan through the thread, they
didn't. It was tightly focused.

Because of the experience level, satbeginner obviously thought
it better to only introduce one task at a time... which lead
to a lot of one and two sentence posts.

15-20 years ago, Tekscopes was set so that replies went to the
individual, rather than the group. We collectively voted to stop
that practice because it hid the "sausage making" from the group,
and only the one engaged in the private banter learned anything.

I think we made a wise decision when we encouraged the replies to
be on the group.

Also, although I really hate it, our group has a few grumpy old men
that start spouting off whenever the groups topics don't exactly match
their interests.

If you want to start moderating, ... well, there's a challenge.

-Chuck Harris

Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:

Hi Chuck,
The first thing I can say is I always appreciate you input.

I did receive a complaint about it so I took a closer look. What I saw was an awful lot of messages with only two individuals involved. I was concerned that others might find it annoying.

It was a judgement call. But since many others indicate they are benefitting from it please accept my apology.

Dennis W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 6:55 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Message to satbeginner and Saroj Pradhan re: Tektronix 2230

Dennis,

Are you serious? Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads, but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem to me on topic. Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF








DaveC <davec2468@...>
 

I concur Chuck.

I was enrolled here a decade ago when I was fixing a Tek 2465 (since retired to a hobbyist). I am now selling my last Tek, a 2430A. I would like to stay a member but have no equipment challenges (although still soldering up circuits and might like to tap this deep group brain once in a while).

I enjoy reading the back-and-forth between the owner and any number of helpers on a repair project. Photos of waveforms help me visualize being there, doing the probing and troubleshooting. That experience might even stir an idea for the owner that I could post to the group.

In all, I think this format works well.

Cheers,
Dave

On Aug 4, 2020, at 8:13 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

Hi Dennis,

I didn't mean to make trouble, but I thought we were trying
to encourage newbies, and helping them often requires a lot
of one-on-one hand holding. I have done this myself many times,
as have others. Satbeginner is anything but a beginner, and
does a very nice job of helping others get their footing.

If they were diverging off to talk about trucks, or honey badgers,
I could see your point, but in my scan through the thread, they
didn't. It was tightly focused.

Because of the experience level, satbeginner obviously thought
it better to only introduce one task at a time... which lead
to a lot of one and two sentence posts.

15-20 years ago, Tekscopes was set so that replies went to the
individual, rather than the group. We collectively voted to stop
that practice because it hid the "sausage making" from the group,
and only the one engaged in the private banter learned anything.

I think we made a wise decision when we encouraged the replies to
be on the group.

Also, although I really hate it, our group has a few grumpy old men
that start spouting off whenever the groups topics don't exactly match
their interests.

If you want to start moderating, ... well, there's a challenge.

-Chuck Harris

Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Hi Chuck,
The first thing I can say is I always appreciate you input.

I did receive a complaint about it so I took a closer look. What I saw was an awful lot of messages with only two individuals involved. I was concerned that others might find it annoying.

It was a judgement call. But since many others indicate they are benefitting from it please accept my apology.

Dennis W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 6:55 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Message to satbeginner and Saroj Pradhan re: Tektronix 2230

Dennis,

Are you serious? Why is the 2230 not worthy of long threads, but every damn thing else is?

Yes, it is bit of a chit/chat fest, but the messages all seem to me on topic. Bandwidth (ha ha!) is minimal, perhaps less than 40K for the entire thread.

I admit that I care nothing for the 2230, but others do.

So, why?

-Chuck Harris



Dennis Tillman W7pF wrote:
Gentlemen:
You are creating an excessive amount of unnecessary message traffic, consuming significant bandwidth, and taking up precious storage on TekScopes.
I believe the best way for you to explore your mutual interests regarding the 2230 is to communicate directly to each other rather than through TekScopes.
If you need further assistance please contact me directly.
Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7pF









Roy Thistle
 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:


our group has a few grumpy old men
... well... some of might be grumpy; but, not old men.... and some of us may be "grumpy old men"... and some of might be other things too!

In my opinion... and this is exactly, and only, my opinion...and exactly and only what I am claiming (so please don't try to insert clandestine personal interpretations and attribute them to me)...
(1) Plainly, the whole point of having a Manager/Moderator is to arbitrate.
(2) The logical consequence of (1)

Groups.io has information pertaining to how (in their expert view) a Groups.io group ought to be managed/moderated.
Groups.io Managers Forum is where the ought is worked out in the wash.


ArtekManuals <manuals@...>
 

I highly recommend a nap and a couple of fig newtons

Curmudgeon in Training
Dave
manuals@...

On 8/5/2020 9:21 AM, Roy Thistle wrote:
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:

our group has a few grumpy old men
... well... some of might be grumpy; but, not old men.... and some of us may be "grumpy old men"... and some of might be other things too!

In my opinion... and this is exactly, and only, my opinion...and exactly and only what I am claiming (so please don't try to insert clandestine personal interpretations and attribute them to me)...
(1) Plainly, the whole point of having a Manager/Moderator is to arbitrate.
(2) The logical consequence of (1)

Groups.io has information pertaining to how (in their expert view) a Groups.io group ought to be managed/moderated.
Groups.io Managers Forum is where the ought is worked out in the wash.

--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Roy Thistle
 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:


Because of the experience level
and also... DaveC wrote:

I enjoy reading the back-and-forth between the owner and any number of helpers on a repair project
Newbie: I have a butter knife and a 10.00 meter (says DMM on it, what's that?) Anyway, I'm trying to fix my 2465 oscilloscope... it doesn't work. Can someone help me.
Gumpy Old Man: Hi Newbie. Check the voltages on the power supply. Use your digital multimeter, and an isolation transformer.
Grumpy Old Man: Hi Newbie.. did you check the power supply voltages?
... some time passing...
Grumpy Old Man: Haven't heard from you for some time. Is everything okay?
...crickets...


Chuck Harris
 

Straw man much, Roy?

You would probably be mortified that my father, also an
EE, but of the power and light variety, gave me a 513D
oscilloscope for Xmas; when I was a tender young man of 13.

At 13, my sole and only electronics training was building a
xtal radio, a motor, a few Heathkits, shocking the dickens
out of myself with a model T Ford spark coil... repeatedly,
and reading many years worth of Radio Amateur's Handbooks.
Oh, that and taking apart things I found in the town's dump.

Dad had taught me to use a soldering gun, and solder back
when I was 4 or 5... Or, rather, I watched him do it, and
he did nothing to discourage me when I borrowed his gun and
solder and made things with it. He had what for him would
have been a lifetime supply of Ersin Multi-core solder, that
I used up long before I left junior high school.

When the 513D needed some service, he helped me to remove
its cabinet, handed me the manual to study, and advised me
to always wear shoes, and to keep one hand in my pocket
when I probed around in its chassis. I'm a romantic, he
probably said more, but I don't remember it that way.
Dad was way more comfortable with engines, motors, transformers
and very large generators.

My dad understood electricity, but electronics, not so much.

It took quite a while, but I fixed that scope, with plenty
of encouragement, but no real help, and I didn't kill, or
even shock myself.

The world today has become a large cesspool of ninnies feeding
off of each others insecurities. That wouldn't be so bad,
but they are all know-it-all ninnies, that know what is best
for each and everyone of us, and mandate all of it.

To achieve anything worth achieving, you have to take a chance.

Even if you work naively, and carelessly, the likelihood of
killing yourself with these scopes is small enough as to be
insignificant. Sparks and electric shocks have a tendency to
focus your attention.

You should read of the extreme effort Edison's surrogates had
to go to to make a working electric chair... all in an attempt
damage Westinghouse, and AC power transmission.

-Chuck Harris



Roy Thistle wrote:

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:


Because of the experience level
and also... DaveC wrote:

I enjoy reading the back-and-forth between the owner and any number of helpers on a repair project
Newbie: I have a butter knife and a 10.00 meter (says DMM on it, what's that?) Anyway, I'm trying to fix my 2465 oscilloscope... it doesn't work. Can someone help me.
Gumpy Old Man: Hi Newbie. Check the voltages on the power supply. Use your digital multimeter, and an isolation transformer.
Grumpy Old Man: Hi Newbie.. did you check the power supply voltages?
... some time passing...
Grumpy Old Man: Haven't heard from you for some time. Is everything okay?
...crickets...




Dave Seiter
 

Yup!  They pop up all over user groups and youtube comments.  The "safety nazis", the folks who demand you use a crescent wrench correctly (why can't I turn it in the wrong direction or use it as a hammer- it's my wrench!?), the people who think there is only one correct way to (solve a problem/use a machine/make BBQ/think/behave), and, of course, the lawyer-driven "don't try this at home" garbage.
How does anyone truly learn anything without getting ones' hands dirty (and getting zapped by the HV anode you forgot to discharge)?
-Dave

On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 09:49:41 AM PDT, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
The world today has become a large cesspool of ninnies feeding
off of each others insecurities.  That wouldn't be so bad,
but they are all know-it-all ninnies, that know what is best
for each and everyone of us, and mandate all of it.

To achieve anything worth achieving, you have to take a chance.


Glydeck
 

Chuck,

Loved your reminiscence of you and your dad repairing your Tektronix 513D. Got my first scope at about the same age from a sound engineer that worked at the movie studio along with my dad. I got a Zenith scope along with a hand made Wein bridge oscillator. The scope went to my nephew but I kept the oscillator. I continue to maintain it and it still works.

My dad worked in special effects and showed me how to safely work with explosives so we could blow up Revell models and film them with 8 mm cameras. Yes, a different time.

George

On Aug 5, 2020, at 9:49 AM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

Straw man much, Roy?

You would probably be mortified that my father, also an
EE, but of the power and light variety, gave me a 513D
oscilloscope for Xmas; when I was a tender young man of 13.

At 13, my sole and only electronics training was building a
xtal radio, a motor, a few Heathkits, shocking the dickens
out of myself with a model T Ford spark coil... repeatedly,
and reading many years worth of Radio Amateur's Handbooks.
Oh, that and taking apart things I found in the town's dump.

Dad had taught me to use a soldering gun, and solder back
when I was 4 or 5... Or, rather, I watched him do it, and
he did nothing to discourage me when I borrowed his gun and
solder and made things with it. He had what for him would
have been a lifetime supply of Ersin Multi-core solder, that
I used up long before I left junior high school.

When the 513D needed some service, he helped me to remove
its cabinet, handed me the manual to study, and advised me
to always wear shoes, and to keep one hand in my pocket
when I probed around in its chassis. I'm a romantic, he
probably said more, but I don't remember it that way.
Dad was way more comfortable with engines, motors, transformers
and very large generators.

My dad understood electricity, but electronics, not so much.

It took quite a while, but I fixed that scope, with plenty
of encouragement, but no real help, and I didn't kill, or
even shock myself.

The world today has become a large cesspool of ninnies feeding
off of each others insecurities. That wouldn't be so bad,
but they are all know-it-all ninnies, that know what is best
for each and everyone of us, and mandate all of it.

To achieve anything worth achieving, you have to take a chance.

Even if you work naively, and carelessly, the likelihood of
killing yourself with these scopes is small enough as to be
insignificant. Sparks and electric shocks have a tendency to
focus your attention.

You should read of the extreme effort Edison's surrogates had
to go to to make a working electric chair... all in an attempt
damage Westinghouse, and AC power transmission.

-Chuck Harris



Roy Thistle wrote:
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 08:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:


Because of the experience level
and also... DaveC wrote:

I enjoy reading the back-and-forth between the owner and any number of helpers on a repair project
Newbie: I have a butter knife and a 10.00 meter (says DMM on it, what's that?) Anyway, I'm trying to fix my 2465 oscilloscope... it doesn't work. Can someone help me.
Gumpy Old Man: Hi Newbie. Check the voltages on the power supply. Use your digital multimeter, and an isolation transformer.
Grumpy Old Man: Hi Newbie.. did you check the power supply voltages?
... some time passing...
Grumpy Old Man: Haven't heard from you for some time. Is everything okay?
...crickets...





btorgerson@...
 

Hello,
I personally own a Tek 2235A so I like lurking and reading about these specific scopes.

-Brandon