Topics

MC1456N replacements for 577

DW
 

I am looking at swapping out these OP AMPs where could I find something equivalent to this

MC1456N for 577 curve tracer quantity 3

Thanks

Craig Sawyers
 

I am looking at swapping out these OP AMPs where could I find something equivalent to this

MC1456N for 577 curve tracer quantity 3
When I blew my 557 up (don't ask) I bought mine from eBay.

Craig

 

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 06:25 PM, DW wrote:


I am looking at swapping out these OP AMPs where could I find something
equivalent to this

MC1456N for 577 curve tracer quantity 3

Thanks
Unicorn Electronics (http://www.unicornelectronics.com/prod.htm) has the MC1456N in stock. Look in the Linear section.

Cheers,
DaveM

Bill Carns
 

You can also look at many places where the original VERY equivalent part is stocked under the original Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the Motorola Analog Division. That part only got the "N" package designation when it was second sourced by TI and National. The Mot part is the better choice.

Regards,
Bill Carns

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of David M
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 9:21 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 06:25 PM, DW wrote:


I am looking at swapping out these OP AMPs where could I find
something equivalent to this

MC1456N for 577 curve tracer quantity 3

Thanks
Unicorn Electronics (http://www.unicornelectronics.com/prod.htm) has the MC1456N in stock. Look in the Linear section.

Cheers,
DaveM

Bill Carns
 

P.S.

Both Semi Source and Classic Components have them in stock and there are a number of offerings on eBay

Bill Carns

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of David M
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 9:21 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 06:25 PM, DW wrote:


I am looking at swapping out these OP AMPs where could I find
something equivalent to this

MC1456N for 577 curve tracer quantity 3

Thanks
Unicorn Electronics (http://www.unicornelectronics.com/prod.htm) has the MC1456N in stock. Look in the Linear section.

Cheers,
DaveM

Craig Sawyers
 

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it was my part when I was the
Strategic Marketing Manager of the Motorola Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near equivalents, but the MC1456 has a
number of unique characteristics, particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the offsets and bias current are much
higher. I'm not sure offhand if those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig

unclebanjoman
 

LF356 seems a good substitute to me...

Max

DW
 

Bill Carns
 

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is both a
large function of the type, but also what the feedback and bias circuitry
around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual Mot. I
know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after they took on a
lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept the same mask set and
also, the processing was probably somewhat different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig
Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a single
op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the offsets and
bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if those parameters are
important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it if it
was OK in the circuit.

Craig

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is both a
large function of the type, but also what the feedback and bias circuitry
around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual Mot. I
know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after they took on a
lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept the same mask set and
also, the processing was probably somewhat different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Craig
Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a single
op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the offsets and
bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if those parameters are
important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it if it
was OK in the circuit.

Craig






---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Bill Carns
 

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both marketing
and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF Power Design and
Development Manager with MOT for years before going analog) and I ran a
large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the Russian route. While the
mask set might (or might not) be equivalent, their processing is behind, and
you are almost guaranteed to get a different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey. Also worked in Russia for a number
of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is both
a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and bias
circuitry around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot. I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Hey, I don't insist :) And as a matter of fact last time I've been to Russia
was something like 15+ years ago... And I don't know those guys at all -- it
is probably new generation while I'm 60 years old...

However there is _NOTHING_ magical with MC1456, it is just a regular opamp.
It was the first one with internal compensation cloned in Russia along with
741 (which was 140UD7.) I didn't look at 577 schematic but I'm 99.999999%
sure almost _ANY_ modern general purpose opamp would work just fine in place
of MC1456 provided it is +-15V, not low voltage one.

You can chase that MC1456 or just use almost any modern general purpose
opamp and forget about it. If you still want something 1456ish that Russian
1401UD6 would be the closest thing as they weren't making their own versions
by that time but just copied chips verbatim.

But anyway, good luck searching for MC1456 :)

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both marketing
and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF Power Design and
Development Manager with MOT for years before going analog) and I ran a
large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the Russian route. While the
mask set might (or might not) be equivalent, their processing is behind, and
you are almost guaranteed to get a different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey. Also worked in Russia for a number
of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is both
a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and bias
circuitry around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot. I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************




---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Bill Carns
 

Hmmmm, Interestingly, I have paid the bills for many many failure analyses
of what turned out to be Russian "clones" of our semiconductors and, while
the mask sets looked similar at first glance, the photoresist work and the
tolerances were grossly inadequate - As were there processing steps. Now,
that info is also old. I am now about to turn 80 and I retired in my late
60s.

But, you do not see many 30 million transistor microprocessors coming out of
Russia and it is my understanding that their semi work is still well behind
Western standards.

I still think "buyer beware" is in order.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:34 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Hey, I don't insist :) And as a matter of fact last time I've been to Russia
was something like 15+ years ago... And I don't know those guys at all -- it
is probably new generation while I'm 60 years old...

However there is _NOTHING_ magical with MC1456, it is just a regular opamp.
It was the first one with internal compensation cloned in Russia along with
741 (which was 140UD7.) I didn't look at 577 schematic but I'm 99.999999%
sure almost _ANY_ modern general purpose opamp would work just fine in place
of MC1456 provided it is +-15V, not low voltage one.

You can chase that MC1456 or just use almost any modern general purpose
opamp and forget about it. If you still want something 1456ish that Russian
1401UD6 would be the closest thing as they weren't making their own versions
by that time but just copied chips verbatim.

But anyway, good luck searching for MC1456 :)

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both
marketing and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF
Power Design and Development Manager with MOT for years before going
analog) and I ran a large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the
Russian route. While the mask set might (or might not) be equivalent,
their processing is behind, and you are almost guaranteed to get a
different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey. Also worked in Russia for a
number of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sergey Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is
both a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and
bias circuitry around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot. I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Come on, 1456 is not any near 30 million transistors. Neither in complexity
nor in required tolerances. You can probably make one in your garage these
days...

Also all "Western Standards" are now in Asia. Everybody queues at TSMC and
their brethen. The days of old glory are long gone, we are probably not able
to make even our own underware less for complex IC chips. Most of
microprocessors are made in China these days. Not just manufactured but
designed from ground up. Look at e.g. Rockchip, AllWinner, MediaTek and so
on. Try to ask for support at e.g. Lattice and you will get a reply from
some guy with Chinese name and that reply will come with a characteristic
time shift. Look at e.g. NXP -- they don't even own and host their own
support forums... Try to ask them for e.g. documentation on USB PHYs in
supposedly theirs i.MX8MQ SoC -- they don't have it theirselves and their
rev.0 manual on the thing is simply pathetic; one could bust a gut reading
copy-pasted hundreds of pages from IP descriptions that don't even apply to
that SoC... It is all gone and its very unlikely it would ever return :(

As of chip design -- it is worth mentioning that SPARC processors were (and
still are although I might be wrong here) fully designed in Russia as well
as much of Intel stuff. They do also have their own chips that were never
exported so most never heard of them at all.

That's all interesting discussion but it is time to wrap it up -- I simply
don't have that much free time to waste; have so many projects in my queue
that I won't live long enough to finish even half of those...

Hmmmm, Interestingly, I have paid the bills for many many failure analyses
of what turned out to be Russian "clones" of our semiconductors and, while
the mask sets looked similar at first glance, the photoresist work and the
tolerances were grossly inadequate - As were there processing steps. Now,
that info is also old. I am now about to turn 80 and I retired in my late
60s.

But, you do not see many 30 million transistor microprocessors coming out of
Russia and it is my understanding that their semi work is still well behind
Western standards.

I still think "buyer beware" is in order.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:34 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Hey, I don't insist :) And as a matter of fact last time I've been to Russia
was something like 15+ years ago... And I don't know those guys at all -- it
is probably new generation while I'm 60 years old...

However there is _NOTHING_ magical with MC1456, it is just a regular opamp.
It was the first one with internal compensation cloned in Russia along with
741 (which was 140UD7.) I didn't look at 577 schematic but I'm 99.999999%
sure almost _ANY_ modern general purpose opamp would work just fine in place
of MC1456 provided it is +-15V, not low voltage one.

You can chase that MC1456 or just use almost any modern general purpose
opamp and forget about it. If you still want something 1456ish that Russian
1401UD6 would be the closest thing as they weren't making their own versions
by that time but just copied chips verbatim.

But anyway, good luck searching for MC1456 :)

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both
marketing and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF
Power Design and Development Manager with MOT for years before going
analog) and I ran a large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the
Russian route. While the mask set might (or might not) be equivalent,
their processing is behind, and you are almost guaranteed to get a
different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey. Also worked in Russia for a
number of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sergey Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is
both a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and
bias circuitry around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot. I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************




---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

KeepIt SimpleStupid
 

My goto place has them:  https://www.utsource.net/sch/MC1456

On Monday, June 17, 2019, 10:05:32 PM EDT, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Come on, 1456 is not any near 30 million transistors. Neither in complexity
nor in required tolerances. You can probably make one in your garage these
days...

Also all "Western Standards" are now in Asia. Everybody queues at TSMC and
their brethen. The days of old glory are long gone, we are probably not able
to make even our own underware less for complex IC chips. Most of
microprocessors are made in China these days. Not just manufactured but
designed from ground up. Look at e.g. Rockchip, AllWinner, MediaTek and so
on. Try to ask for support at e.g. Lattice and you will get a reply from
some guy with Chinese name and that reply will come with a characteristic
time shift. Look at e.g. NXP -- they don't even own and host their own
support forums... Try to ask them for e.g. documentation on USB PHYs in
supposedly theirs i.MX8MQ SoC -- they don't have it theirselves and their
rev.0 manual on the thing is simply pathetic; one could bust a gut reading
copy-pasted hundreds of pages from IP descriptions that don't even apply to
that SoC... It is all gone and its very unlikely it would ever return :(

As of chip design -- it is worth mentioning that SPARC processors were (and
still are although I might be wrong here) fully designed in Russia as well
as much of Intel stuff. They do also have their own chips that were never
exported so most never heard of them at all.

That's all interesting discussion but it is time to wrap it up -- I simply
don't have that much free time to waste; have so many projects in my queue
that I won't live long enough to finish even half of those...

Hmmmm,  Interestingly, I have paid the bills for many many failure analyses
of what turned out to be Russian "clones" of our semiconductors and, while
the mask sets looked similar at first glance, the photoresist work and the
tolerances were grossly inadequate - As were there processing steps.  Now,
that info is also old. I am now about to turn 80 and I retired in my late
60s.

But, you do not see many 30 million transistor microprocessors coming out of
Russia and it is my understanding that their semi work is still well behind
Western standards.

I still think "buyer beware" is in order.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:34 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Hey, I don't insist :) And as a matter of fact last time I've been to Russia
was something like 15+ years ago... And I don't know those guys at all -- it
is probably new generation while I'm 60 years old...

However there is _NOTHING_ magical with MC1456, it is just a regular opamp.
It was the first one with internal compensation cloned in Russia along with
741 (which was 140UD7.) I didn't look at 577 schematic but I'm 99.999999%
sure almost _ANY_ modern general purpose opamp would work just fine in place
of MC1456 provided it is +-15V, not low voltage one.

You can chase that MC1456 or just use almost any modern general purpose
opamp and forget about it. If you still want something 1456ish that Russian
1401UD6 would be the closest thing as they weren't making their own versions
by that time but just copied chips verbatim.

But anyway, good luck searching for MC1456 :)

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both
marketing and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF
Power Design and Development Manager with MOT for years before going
analog) and I ran a large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the
Russian route.  While the mask set might (or might not) be equivalent,
their processing is behind, and you are almost guaranteed to get a
different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey.  Also worked in Russia for a
number of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sergey Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456.  What an op amp does in the circuit is
both a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and
bias circuitry around the part does.  Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot.  I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines.  But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P.  This is a very common part.  Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
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*  KSI@home    KOI8 Net  < >  The impossible we do immediately.  *
*  Las Vegas  NV, USA  < >  Miracles require 24-hour notice.  *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
*  KSI@home    KOI8 Net  < >  The impossible we do immediately.  *
*  Las Vegas  NV, USA  < >  Miracles require 24-hour notice.  *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
*  KSI@home    KOI8 Net  < >  The impossible we do immediately.  *
*  Las Vegas  NV, USA  < >  Miracles require 24-hour notice.  *
******************************************************************

Fabe
 

The LF356 is a feature/pin compatible JFET replacement that might be an improved replacement with a comparable Vos and speed. As a FET, the bias currents are a fraction of the MC1456. I hope this helps?

https://www.ti.com/store/ti/en/p/product/?p=LF356N/NOPB

Fabe

Bill Carns
 

Yup on most of all of that. A regrettable migration of technology - but do not forget that there are still over 50 separate (some very large) semiconductor fabs with some pretty big names (including Asian one) that are still in the USA. All is not lost.

The ref to 30M xistors was to note the level of technology capability. While they did do Spark, nothing of the complexity of the major microPs has come out of Russia. And, yup that the 1456 is small potatoes, but quality of fab still counts.

End of it from here.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of KeepIt SimpleStupid via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 11:58 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

My goto place has them: https://www.utsource.net/sch/MC1456


On Monday, June 17, 2019, 10:05:32 PM EDT, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Come on, 1456 is not any near 30 million transistors. Neither in complexity nor in required tolerances. You can probably make one in your garage these days...

Also all "Western Standards" are now in Asia. Everybody queues at TSMC and their brethen. The days of old glory are long gone, we are probably not able to make even our own underware less for complex IC chips. Most of microprocessors are made in China these days. Not just manufactured but designed from ground up. Look at e.g. Rockchip, AllWinner, MediaTek and so on. Try to ask for support at e.g. Lattice and you will get a reply from some guy with Chinese name and that reply will come with a characteristic time shift. Look at e.g. NXP -- they don't even own and host their own support forums... Try to ask them for e.g. documentation on USB PHYs in supposedly theirs i.MX8MQ SoC -- they don't have it theirselves and their
rev.0 manual on the thing is simply pathetic; one could bust a gut reading copy-pasted hundreds of pages from IP descriptions that don't even apply to that SoC... It is all gone and its very unlikely it would ever return :(

As of chip design -- it is worth mentioning that SPARC processors were (and still are although I might be wrong here) fully designed in Russia as well as much of Intel stuff. They do also have their own chips that were never exported so most never heard of them at all.

That's all interesting discussion but it is time to wrap it up -- I simply don't have that much free time to waste; have so many projects in my queue that I won't live long enough to finish even half of those...

Hmmmm, Interestingly, I have paid the bills for many many failure
analyses of what turned out to be Russian "clones" of our
semiconductors and, while the mask sets looked similar at first
glance, the photoresist work and the tolerances were grossly
inadequate - As were there processing steps. Now, that info is also
old. I am now about to turn 80 and I retired in my late 60s.

But, you do not see many 30 million transistor microprocessors coming
out of Russia and it is my understanding that their semi work is still
well behind Western standards.

I still think "buyer beware" is in order.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sergey Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:34 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Hey, I don't insist :) And as a matter of fact last time I've been to
Russia was something like 15+ years ago... And I don't know those guys
at all -- it is probably new generation while I'm 60 years old...

However there is _NOTHING_ magical with MC1456, it is just a regular opamp.
It was the first one with internal compensation cloned in Russia along
with
741 (which was 140UD7.) I didn't look at 577 schematic but I'm
99.999999% sure almost _ANY_ modern general purpose opamp would work
just fine in place of MC1456 provided it is +-15V, not low voltage one.

You can chase that MC1456 or just use almost any modern general
purpose opamp and forget about it. If you still want something 1456ish
that Russian
1401UD6 would be the closest thing as they weren't making their own
versions by that time but just copied chips verbatim.

But anyway, good luck searching for MC1456 :)

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both
marketing and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF
Power Design and Development Manager with MOT for years before going
analog) and I ran a large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the
Russian route. While the mask set might (or might not) be
equivalent, their processing is behind, and you are almost guaranteed
to get a
different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey. Also worked in Russia for a
number of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sergey Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is
both a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and
bias circuitry around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot. I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Dave Daniel
 

SPARC processors and their descendants (T1-T8) were always and still are designed in Burlington, MA and Santa Clara, CA. The last time I checked these cities were in the US. When I worked for Sun and later Oracle I had full access to all documentation, including the SPARC microarchtecture spec, which was very detailed and precise (and very, very long). I even had access to the Verilog code. In fact, now that I think about it, the Verilog code for the early T-series ptocessors was open-sourced as the publicly available OpenSparc project.

I know personally and have worked with a few of the thousands of people who brought the T-series processors to market. I was a member of several of the PTeams for both the T7 and T8 processors and servers for years.

DaveD

Sent from a small flat thingy

On Jun 17, 2019, at 22:05, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Come on, 1456 is not any near 30 million transistors. Neither in complexity
nor in required tolerances. You can probably make one in your garage these
days...

Also all "Western Standards" are now in Asia. Everybody queues at TSMC and
their brethen. The days of old glory are long gone, we are probably not able
to make even our own underware less for complex IC chips. Most of
microprocessors are made in China these days. Not just manufactured but
designed from ground up. Look at e.g. Rockchip, AllWinner, MediaTek and so
on. Try to ask for support at e.g. Lattice and you will get a reply from
some guy with Chinese name and that reply will come with a characteristic
time shift. Look at e.g. NXP -- they don't even own and host their own
support forums... Try to ask them for e.g. documentation on USB PHYs in
supposedly theirs i.MX8MQ SoC -- they don't have it theirselves and their
rev.0 manual on the thing is simply pathetic; one could bust a gut reading
copy-pasted hundreds of pages from IP descriptions that don't even apply to
that SoC... It is all gone and its very unlikely it would ever return :(

As of chip design -- it is worth mentioning that SPARC processors were (and
still are although I might be wrong here) fully designed in Russia as well
as much of Intel stuff. They do also have their own chips that were never
exported so most never heard of them at all.

That's all interesting discussion but it is time to wrap it up -- I simply
don't have that much free time to waste; have so many projects in my queue
that I won't live long enough to finish even half of those...

Hmmmm, Interestingly, I have paid the bills for many many failure analyses
of what turned out to be Russian "clones" of our semiconductors and, while
the mask sets looked similar at first glance, the photoresist work and the
tolerances were grossly inadequate - As were there processing steps. Now,
that info is also old. I am now about to turn 80 and I retired in my late
60s.

But, you do not see many 30 million transistor microprocessors coming out of
Russia and it is my understanding that their semi work is still well behind
Western standards.

I still think "buyer beware" is in order.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sergey
Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 6:34 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Hey, I don't insist :) And as a matter of fact last time I've been to Russia
was something like 15+ years ago... And I don't know those guys at all -- it
is probably new generation while I'm 60 years old...

However there is _NOTHING_ magical with MC1456, it is just a regular opamp.
It was the first one with internal compensation cloned in Russia along with
741 (which was 140UD7.) I didn't look at 577 schematic but I'm 99.999999%
sure almost _ANY_ modern general purpose opamp would work just fine in place
of MC1456 provided it is +-15V, not low voltage one.

You can chase that MC1456 or just use almost any modern general purpose
opamp and forget about it. If you still want something 1456ish that Russian
1401UD6 would be the closest thing as they weren't making their own versions
by that time but just copied chips verbatim.

But anyway, good luck searching for MC1456 :)

Well, I'll risk being obnoxious, but after having a LOT of both
marketing and technical experience with semiconductors (I was the RF
Power Design and Development Manager with MOT for years before going
analog) and I ran a large wafer area for years, I would NOT go the
Russian route. While the mask set might (or might not) be equivalent,
their processing is behind, and you are almost guaranteed to get a
different process.

Big NO vote from here. - Sorry Sergey. Also worked in Russia for a
number of years and have good friends there - but truth is truth.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Sergey Kubushyn
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 4:14 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019, Bill Carns wrote:

Here is the full Russian analog for MC1456:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163602986817
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143176757356
https://www.ebay.com/itm/332016125231

You should use the MC1456. What an op amp does in the circuit is
both a large function of the type, but also what the feedback and
bias circuitry around the part does. Not surprising.

I am sure you can find Mot parts that are late date code but actual
Mot. I know almost for sure, that ON Semi also made the parts after
they took on a lot of Mots product lines. But not sure if they kept
the same mask set and also, the processing was probably somewhat
different.

Better safe than sorry.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Craig Sawyers
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 10:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] MC1456N replacements for 577

Motorola number MC1456P. This is a very common part. Actually, it
was my part when I was the Strategic Marketing Manager of the
Motorola
Analog Division.

Regards,
Bill Carns
That is very interesting Bill. I tried to find equivalents and near
equivalents, but the MC1456 has a number of unique characteristics,
particularly input bias, offset voltage and current. And it is a
single op-amp, not a dual. I thought of suggesting the 5534, but the
offsets and bias current are much higher. I'm not sure offhand if
those parameters are important in the 577, but probably, because the
5534 has been around since Adam was a lad and Tek would have used it
if it was OK in the circuit.

Craig







---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************





---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************




---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************


DW
 

Thanks for all the replies I found the MC1R56P at UTSOURCE