Topics

Correct Silver solder

greenboxmaven
 

I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY

Bob Albert
 

I think 2% is okay, with lead preferred since that's what they used.
In my case, I found a piece of silver solder my dad had for his jewelry repairs and using some of it alternately with tin-lead seems to do the job for the terminal strips.  So apparently the fraction isn't critical.
Bob

On Friday, November 1, 2019, 07:11:24 PM PDT, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io <ka2ivy=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the
correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips?  I have found both
tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content .  Are these
satisfactory?  Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks,
Bruce, KA2IVY

Richard R. Pope
 

Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40 or 63/37 lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/1/2019 9:08 PM, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote:
I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY



Jamie Ostrowski
 

Tektronix in the 50's said the actual correct solder is 60% tin, 37% lead,
and 3% solder. The details are highlighted in this video, made in the 50s
by Tektronix, for soldering to ceramic strips.

Here is the video which covers the procedure in detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpB5JqGo1co

Maybe 2% would work, but if you're working on restoring a 555, why take the
chance on compromise?

Just me! :-)

Good luck with your project.



On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:26 PM Richard R. Pope <mechanic_2@...>
wrote:

Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40
or 63/37 lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/1/2019 9:08 PM, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote:
I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is
the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found
both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are
these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed?
Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY







Jamie Ostrowski
 

60% tin/ 37% lead, and 3% SILVER...sorry for the typo!

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:49 PM Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...>
wrote:


Tektronix in the 50's said the actual correct solder is 60% tin, 37% lead,
and 3% solder. The details are highlighted in this video, made in the 50s
by Tektronix, for soldering to ceramic strips.

Here is the video which covers the procedure in detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpB5JqGo1co

Maybe 2% would work, but if you're working on restoring a 555, why take
the chance on compromise?

Just me! :-)

Good luck with your project.



On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:26 PM Richard R. Pope <mechanic_2@...>
wrote:

Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40
or 63/37 lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/1/2019 9:08 PM, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote:
I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is
the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found
both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are
these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed?
Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY







Jamie Ostrowski
 

Also, it's at the 5:35 mark in that video where they specify the exact
composition needed...just fyi.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:50 PM Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...>
wrote:


60% tin/ 37% lead, and 3% SILVER...sorry for the typo!

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:49 PM Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...>
wrote:


Tektronix in the 50's said the actual correct solder is 60% tin, 37%
lead, and 3% solder. The details are highlighted in this video, made in the
50s by Tektronix, for soldering to ceramic strips.

Here is the video which covers the procedure in detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpB5JqGo1co

Maybe 2% would work, but if you're working on restoring a 555, why take
the chance on compromise?

Just me! :-)

Good luck with your project.



On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:26 PM Richard R. Pope <mechanic_2@...>
wrote:

Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40
or 63/37 lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/1/2019 9:08 PM, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote:
I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is
the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found
both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are
these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed?
Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY







tss_steve_990
 

Unless your scope has a small coil of solder inside, which was standard
issue back then, IMHO the closest readily available solder is SN62. It
is eutectic solder (63% Tin, 37% lead) with 2% silver added. It has
enough silver not to leach the silver from the ceramic strips and melts
at a low temperature.

I would never use Lead Free solder on anything I cared about.

Steve Hogan

714 904-6636

On 2019-11-01 19:53, Jamie Ostrowski wrote:

Also, it's at the 5:35 mark in that video where they specify the exact
composition needed...just fyi.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:50 PM Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...>
wrote:

60% tin/ 37% lead, and 3% SILVER...sorry for the typo!

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:49 PM Jamie Ostrowski <jamie.ostrowski@...>
wrote:

Tektronix in the 50's said the actual correct solder is 60% tin, 37%
lead, and 3% solder. The details are highlighted in this video, made in the
50s by Tektronix, for soldering to ceramic strips.

Here is the video which covers the procedure in detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpB5JqGo1co

Maybe 2% would work, but if you're working on restoring a 555, why take
the chance on compromise?

Just me! :-)

Good luck with your project.

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 9:26 PM Richard R. Pope <mechanic_2@...>
wrote:

Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40
or 63/37 lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/1/2019 9:08 PM, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote: I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is
the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found
both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are
these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed?
Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY

Jacques Fortin
 

At least 3% alloy is needed, according to the manuals.

Le 1 nov. 2019 à 22:08, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io <ka2ivy=verizon.net@groups.io> a écrit :

I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are these satisfactory? Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY

Martin
 

2% silver is what you need for any equipment that has silver plated ceramic strips. I've read that Tek supplied 3% with the scopes, but everything else that I've read says that 2% will prevent silver from leeching off of the ceramic.

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Under no circumstances use lead free solder on ceramic strips! That is a guarantee of disaster.
First the melting point is too high, and second it makes a strange grainy intermetallic with the
lead based solder that Tektronix used.

And - with reference to Richard Pope's mail - never ever use solder that is simply 60:40 or 63:37
(ie without added silver) - that will leach the silver out of the ceramic strip notches. It is most
definitely NOT what Tektronix used in this application.

Others have already said that the easily available lead based solders with added silver contain 2%
silver, and are just fine for ceramic notches.

If you want more silver, the only leaded solder that contains 4% silver is made by WBT - but it is
about 4x the price.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of greenboxmaven via
Groups.Io
Sent: 02 November 2019 02:08
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] Correct Silver solder

I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the
correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found both
tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are these satisfactory? Is 2%
silver
enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY

battyhugh
 

I seem to remember a long time ago - that Tektronix actually put a short length of the correct solder wrapped around a post.
You might look for it.

h

Glenn Little
 

The original builders used 3% silver tin/lead.

Glenn

On 11/1/2019 10:26 PM, Richard R. Pope wrote:
Bruce,
��� I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40 or 63/37 lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/1/2019 9:08 PM, greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote:
I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the correct alloy of solder for the ceramic tie strips?�� I have found both tin/lead/silver and lead-free, both with 2% silver content .� Are these satisfactory?� Is 2% silver enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY






--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIV wb4uiv@... AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI LM NRA LM SBE ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"

Chuck Harris
 

The tektronix specified alloy is tin lead silver, with about
4% silver.

They also specify that you can solder using 60/40 several times,
but after too many times, and the ceramic will lose hold of the
silver plated terminals while soldering.

A curious feature of alumina ceramic is pure silver will soak
into the surface, and wet the ceramic, just like solder will wet
compatible metals, like copper. Several other metals and alloys
will also wet the ceramic, notably gold, and indium. Any alloy
containing tin or lead will not wet the ceramic at all.

Silver likes to alloy with tin and lead, more than it likes to
wet ceramic, so ordinary tin/lead solder leaches the silver out of
the silver fired contacts on the ceramic barrier strips, and the
ceramic can no longer retain the leads you are connecting.

There are two ways of preventing this from happening:

The first is to use a highly silver bearing solder, that already
has enough silver, so there is little tendency for the silver to
migrate from the barrier strips into the solder.

The second is to keep the heat, and accumulated soldering time,
to the minimum that will do the job.

Every time you heat up the joint, it will be one step closer to
failing, regardless of what solder you use.

Any solder with 2-4% silver content will work ok, but only if it
doesn't overheat the strips.

I use what is called SN62 silver bearing solder. It contains
62% Sn, 2% Ag, and 36% Pb.

Another comment that needs to be said. These barrier strips really
suck away the heat from your iron. You need a high wattage, 70W
is good, temperature controlled iron (600F) with a screwdriver tip.
A big screwdriver tip, 1/8" at the point is about right.

Do *NOT* put the soldering iron tip into the notch in the barrier
strip, doing so will break the strip *EVERY TIME*.

Instead, follow the instructions shown in the manual, and heat the
component lead, with the side of the iron leaning into the side of
the barrier strip.

-Chuck Harris


greenboxmaven via Groups.Io wrote:

I am beginning restoration on a 555 I got a few months ago. What is the correct alloy
of solder for the ceramic tie strips? I have found both tin/lead/silver and
lead-free, both with 2% silver content . Are these satisfactory? Is 2% silver
enough, or is a richer alloy needed? Thanks, Bruce, KA2IVY




Chuck Harris
 

No, they did not use 60/40 or 63/37!

They used a 4% silver bearing solder that they bought in large quantities.

-Chuck Harris

Richard R. Pope wrote:

Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40 or 63/37
lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

Mlynch001
 

Bruce,

Use silver bearing only. My 576 still has the original roll in place. 2% or 3%, but it really needs to have some silver content. TEKTRONIX literature does say that regular solder can be used , but is not the preferred material.

Quoting the 576 Service Manual pg. 4-10:

"CERAMIC TERMINAL STRIPS. Solder used on ceramic terminal strips should contain about 3% silver. Use a 40 - 75 watt soldering iron with a 1/8 inch wide wedge shaped tip. Ordinary solder can be used occasionally without damage to the ceramic terminal strips. However, if ordinary solder is used or excessive heat is applied, the solder - to - ceramic bond may be broken."

FWIW There is a TEKTRONIX Roll on E-Bay, for sale. If nothing else, you need the roll for originality purposes.

eBay item number:
223715409510

$15.99 plus shipping.

Good Luck with you restoration project.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

David Holland
 

Ignore the silly audiophool advertising text, but this is the WBT
solder Chuck was talking about, and is the stuff I use when working on
equipment with ceramic strips.

https://www.parts-express.com/wbt-0800-silver-solder-4-silver-content-1-8-lb--093-586

It isn't cheap... But they have it in stock.

FWIW, I've had good luck w/ Parts-Express in general, as they're local to me.

David

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 9:19 AM Mlynch001 <@mlynch001> wrote:

Bruce,

Use silver bearing only. My 576 still has the original roll in place. 2% or 3%, but it really needs to have some silver content. TEKTRONIX literature does say that regular solder can be used , but is not the preferred material.

Quoting the 576 Service Manual pg. 4-10:

"CERAMIC TERMINAL STRIPS. Solder used on ceramic terminal strips should contain about 3% silver. Use a 40 - 75 watt soldering iron with a 1/8 inch wide wedge shaped tip. Ordinary solder can be used occasionally without damage to the ceramic terminal strips. However, if ordinary solder is used or excessive heat is applied, the solder - to - ceramic bond may be broken."

FWIW There is a TEKTRONIX Roll on E-Bay, for sale. If nothing else, you need the roll for originality purposes.

eBay item number:
223715409510

$15.99 plus shipping.

Good Luck with you restoration project.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


David Holland
 

*It was Craig who mentioned it. Mea-Culpa.

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 10:13 AM David Holland <david.w.holland@...> wrote:

Ignore the silly audiophool advertising text, but this is the WBT
solder Chuck was talking about, and is the stuff I use when working on
equipment with ceramic strips.

https://www.parts-express.com/wbt-0800-silver-solder-4-silver-content-1-8-lb--093-586

It isn't cheap... But they have it in stock.

FWIW, I've had good luck w/ Parts-Express in general, as they're local to me.

David

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 9:19 AM Mlynch001 <@mlynch001> wrote:

Bruce,

Use silver bearing only. My 576 still has the original roll in place. 2% or 3%, but it really needs to have some silver content. TEKTRONIX literature does say that regular solder can be used , but is not the preferred material.

Quoting the 576 Service Manual pg. 4-10:

"CERAMIC TERMINAL STRIPS. Solder used on ceramic terminal strips should contain about 3% silver. Use a 40 - 75 watt soldering iron with a 1/8 inch wide wedge shaped tip. Ordinary solder can be used occasionally without damage to the ceramic terminal strips. However, if ordinary solder is used or excessive heat is applied, the solder - to - ceramic bond may be broken."

FWIW There is a TEKTRONIX Roll on E-Bay, for sale. If nothing else, you need the roll for originality purposes.

eBay item number:
223715409510

$15.99 plus shipping.

Good Luck with you restoration project.
--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


Mlynch001
 

David,

Great recommendation!

But, of course, using this silver bearing solder in their audio amps "widens the sound stage" to "infinity and beyond" and creates silence "so quiet that it is deafening". I'm sure that many these same people can "hear" the difference between 60/40 and 63/37. Never ceases to amaze me what kind of BS is used to separate some people from their $$$.

The only reason to use this solder is strictly for compatibility with the peculiar mechanical and chemical properties of these TEKTRONIX ceramic strips. In this case, the reasons are 100% legitimate and justified.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR

Richard R. Pope
 

Chuck,
My mistake. I thought that the solder being used to build Tek equipment was either 60/40 or 63/37. Sorry!!
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

On 11/2/2019 8:13 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
No, they did not use 60/40 or 63/37!

They used a 4% silver bearing solder that they bought in large quantities.

-Chuck Harris

Richard R. Pope wrote:
Bruce,
I would use the same solder that the original builders used. 60/40 or 63/37
lead/tin rosin core solder.
GOD Bless and Thanks,
rich!

Leon Robinson
 

Michael

I totally agree.I bought a 1\2 pound roll of (60/40) solder from China on ebay.A ham friend had asked me about it and I rolled some off and gave it to him to try.He said he didn't know what it is but it isn't 60/40.I tried it too and it is definitely not 60/40, looks kind of like lead free only worse,
very grainy and wouldn't wet the terminal very well.I think it would make a good paperweight.

Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.

Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

On Saturday, November 2, 2019, 9:59:15 AM CDT, Mlynch001 <@mlynch001> wrote:

David,

Great recommendation!

But, of course, using this silver bearing solder in their audio amps "widens the sound stage" to "infinity and beyond" and creates silence "so quiet that it is deafening".  I'm sure that many these same people can "hear" the difference between 60/40 and 63/37.  Never ceases to amaze me what kind of BS is used to separate some people from their $$$.

The only reason to use this solder is strictly for compatibility with the peculiar mechanical and chemical properties of these TEKTRONIX ceramic strips.  In this case, the reasons are 100% legitimate and justified.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR