2465 blower


durechenew@...
 

For those with a 2465A (or maybe B) version; I just received a 2465. Very clean and good looking inside; probably heavy usage, though, considering the status of the blower: noisy.
Another thing I noticed (didn't mention that actually works normal - up to a point) is that adjusting intensity it goes in a de-focus state; partially adjustable, but you don't want to do that every time you go from low frequency to higher. Could be a CRT issue or something in the control circuits; have to do some verification.
The first issue is the one I need some help with: the blower's motor is a Siemens device that's beyond repair and I'm considering the idea of changing the whole blower with a regular fan and some mods in the path of airflow; that if there is a kind soul that could take the trouble to provide a picture of the fan in a 2465A; from SM I take it might be not a blower, but a regular fan; I might be also wrong.
Regards
TT


Siggi
 

On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 2:41 PM durechenew via groups.io <durechenew=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

For those with a 2465A (or maybe B) version; I just received a 2465. Very
clean and good looking inside; probably heavy usage, though, considering
the status of the blower: noisy.
Another thing I noticed (didn't mention that actually works normal - up to
a point) is that adjusting intensity it goes in a de-focus state; partially
adjustable, but you don't want to do that every time you go from low
frequency to higher. Could be a CRT issue or something in the control
circuits; have to do some verification.
The first issue is the one I need some help with: the blower's motor is a
Siemens device that's beyond repair and I'm considering the idea of
changing the whole blower with a regular fan and some mods in the path of
airflow; that if there is a kind soul that could take the trouble to
provide a picture of the fan in a 2465A; from SM I take it might be not a
blower, but a regular fan; I might be also wrong.
I went through the conversion with my 2465, replacing the wonderful
impeller fan with a 60mm case fan. I hated it so much that I bought a new
Siemens motor when one came up on eBay and I reverted the modification.
Note that the back cover on the 2465 doesn't leave as much room as does the
cover for e.g. the 2467 or 2465A, so fitting a slim 60mm case fan was about
the best I could do. Even with a temperature controlled speed reduction,
this was all kinds of whiney and objectionable.
Rather than going this way, you might try to re-lube the motor. On my 485,
which had a horribly noisy & rattling fan, I did this successfully.
I first de-soldered the motor and then removed the thrust bearing at the
back of it. This allowed me access at both ends (bushings) of the motor. I
then flushed the motor with isopropyl alcohol a couple of times
to get decades of ick and crusted up oil out. I then lubed the bearings
with a drop of 30W synthetic motor oil. This seems to have restored it to
wonderful, near-silent operation.


 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 08:20 PM, Siggi wrote:


Rather than going this way, you might try to re-lube the motor. On my 485,
which had a horribly noisy & rattling fan, I did this successfully.
In 465/475 family 'scopes, I've encountered a few motors with worn-out sintered bronze bearings, causing a very unpleasant rumbling noise. I could clearly feel the radial play, mostly in one direction. Fortunately, I had a few donors available, which I treated mostly the way you suggest.

Raymond


durechenew@...
 

Thank you, Raymond and Siggi, for taking the time to answer to this post. Unfortunately the motor of the blower is beyond repair (back side bushing is completely broken), therefore the whole stuff must be replaced. I've seen a blower that might be appropriate for the purpose, beside the obvious (and, as Siggi said, undesired) regular fan. I'm quite aware of all the issues (I recently put a fan on a 2235 and, yes, I had to go from 8V to 5V - for a 12V motor - to get a decent noise. For fan I was considering making some additional holes in the back cover to allow for easier flow; but no decision yet.
TT


 

Don't forget that PC fans are good and bad. If you want something good
buy Noctua, or, in a pinch, BeQuiet.

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 2:28 AM durechenew via groups.io
<durechenew=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thank you, Raymond and Siggi, for taking the time to answer to this post. Unfortunately the motor of the blower is beyond repair (back side bushing is completely broken), therefore the whole stuff must be replaced. I've seen a blower that might be appropriate for the purpose, beside the obvious (and, as Siggi said, undesired) regular fan. I'm quite aware of all the issues (I recently put a fan on a 2235 and, yes, I had to go from 8V to 5V - for a 12V motor - to get a decent noise. For fan I was considering making some additional holes in the back cover to allow for easier flow; but no decision yet.
TT





Monty Montgomery
 

Also consider that some of us are pretty good at 3D printing blowers
that will fit onto a case fan hub ;-)

Monty
(the other one)

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 9:03 PM cheater cheater
<cheater00social@gmail.com> wrote:

Don't forget that PC fans are good and bad. If you want something good
buy Noctua, or, in a pinch, BeQuiet.

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 2:28 AM durechenew via groups.io
<durechenew=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thank you, Raymond and Siggi, for taking the time to answer to this post. Unfortunately the motor of the blower is beyond repair (back side bushing is completely broken), therefore the whole stuff must be replaced. I've seen a blower that might be appropriate for the purpose, beside the obvious (and, as Siggi said, undesired) regular fan. I'm quite aware of all the issues (I recently put a fan on a 2235 and, yes, I had to go from 8V to 5V - for a 12V motor - to get a decent noise. For fan I was considering making some additional holes in the back cover to allow for easier flow; but no decision yet.
TT








Siggi
 

These Siemens motors can be found NIB occasionally. Here’s one: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/324450386031.


Ananda
 

If it is a bush bearing, is it not possible to turn one out using phosphor bronze? If you are near a machine shop, it might be an idea to show them and see how much they would charge.


 

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 07:39 PM, <adesilva_1999@yahoo.com> wrote:


If it is a bush bearing, is it not possible to turn one out using phosphor
bronze? If you are near a machine shop, it might be an idea to show them and
see how much they would charge.
Never tried. I might still do that, motors still in a box, I think.
Thanks for the suggestion!

Raymond


Bruce Atwood
 

McMaster Carr has 946 different sizes of Oil-Embedded Sleeve Bearings. One might fit with minor adjustments.


Siggi
 

On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 1:39 PM adesilva_1999 via groups.io <adesilva_1999=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

If it is a bush bearing, is it not possible to turn one out using phosphor
bronze? If you are near a machine shop, it might be an idea to show them
and see how much they would charge.
The problem is that it appears the stator is wound around the rotor,
encapsulating the bearings within the stator. Matt D'Asaro wrote an article
on how to replace the bearings on one of those, and it involves essentially
a full motor rewind:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190410115023/https://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=235478.
Be patient and this will/may load from archive.org, as unfortunately the
original article references now-dead image links :/.


Ananda
 

Great info. If you can get the bearings/bushes in hand first, it might be an idea to go for it. You can always buy the magnet wire easily. The fun is getting it working like when it came originally!


durechenew@...
 

Thanks to all for the great interest this has started and for more than interesting information presented. Great, great article at antiqueradios; whoever's ready for that work, good luck!
Not going to work for me, as part of the bushing holder is broken and I think that's no repairable. I believe somebody mentioned the fan for 2465A(B?) or 2467 with driver circuit with an NTC; I didn't find than NTC in schematic, maybe I don't have the right one... The idea of a regular fan with that (thermal) controller (or another, maybe from a 2465 modified for the need) is attractive (I have some fans of high reliability).
Thanks all for thoughts
TT


 

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 08:15 PM, <durechenew@yahoo.com> wrote:


I believe somebody mentioned the fan for 2465A(B?) or 2467 with driver circuit
with an NTC; I didn't find than NTC in schematic, maybe I don't have the right
one... The idea of a regular fan with that (thermal) controller (or another,
maybe from a 2465 modified for the need) is attractive (I have some fans of
high reliability).
According to my info,
the 2465 uses a Hall-element motor and the NTC is R1696 (page 262/323 in my SM), the 2465A and 2467 use a regular fan and a regulation circuit using NTC (not marked as such) R1110, page 327/424, dwg 9 in my SM.

Raymond


 

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 08:30 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:


the 2465A and 2467 use a regular fan and a regulation circuit using NTC (not
marked as such) R1110, page 327/424, dwg 9 in my SM.
Sorry, RT1110, not R1110

Raymond


 

How is it broken?

If it's a plastic part and it's not grossly deformed, it can likely be
repaired to like-new condition at least when it comes to the
functionality.
If it's metal, probably as well, with more work. Plastic is easier to restore.

One thing I wonder about.

Why not just get a new motor? It doesn't have to be that exact one, right?

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 8:16 PM durechenew via groups.io
<durechenew=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks to all for the great interest this has started and for more than interesting information presented. Great, great article at antiqueradios; whoever's ready for that work, good luck!
Not going to work for me, as part of the bushing holder is broken and I think that's no repairable. I believe somebody mentioned the fan for 2465A(B?) or 2467 with driver circuit with an NTC; I didn't find than NTC in schematic, maybe I don't have the right one... The idea of a regular fan with that (thermal) controller (or another, maybe from a 2465 modified for the need) is attractive (I have some fans of high reliability).
Thanks all for thoughts
TT





Jim Adney
 

I believe someone mentioned that the 465/475/485 family used the same fan motor. This got me scared, so I pulled out my 465B Service Manual to compare. I finally found the fan and the motor is listed as Tek #290-0536-00, Mfg Code 90201 (Mallory Capacitor!) part #TDC106M025FL (465B SM, rev E, May 1980). I don't know how similar it is, but it has 13 pins arranged in a circle.

That referenced AntiqueRadios article called out Tek parts 670-7390-00 or 670-7390-01, completely different series. I wonder if that means the 2465 motors were custom made, as copies of the earlier motors, after Mallory declined to make more.

A question: What are the chances that any of these motor bearings could be oiled, before they got too worn. A stitch in time....

BTW, I don't recommend ordinary motor oil for applications like this. You don't really want detergent oil in something that doesn't have a pump and filter, and SAE 50 sounds WAY too heavy. Non-detergent or STM (Straight Mineral Oil) in SAE 20 or 30 are probably better choices.


n4buq
 

If this is the Siemens motor version, HP also used this motor in the 8640B signal generator so searching for replacement parts for that might reveal some possibilities.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Adney" <jadney@vwtype3.org>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 8, 2021 5:12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 2465 blower

I believe someone mentioned that the 465/475/485 family used the same fan
motor. This got me scared, so I pulled out my 465B Service Manual to
compare. I finally found the fan and the motor is listed as Tek
#290-0536-00, Mfg Code 90201 (Mallory Capacitor!) part #TDC106M025FL (465B
SM, rev E, May 1980). I don't know how similar it is, but it has 13 pins
arranged in a circle.

That referenced AntiqueRadios article called out Tek parts 670-7390-00 or
670-7390-01, completely different series. I wonder if that means the 2465
motors were custom made, as copies of the earlier motors, after Mallory
declined to make more.

A question: What are the chances that any of these motor bearings could be
oiled, before they got too worn. A stitch in time....

BTW, I don't recommend ordinary motor oil for applications like this. You
don't really want detergent oil in something that doesn't have a pump and
filter, and SAE 50 sounds WAY too heavy. Non-detergent or STM (Straight
Mineral Oil) in SAE 20 or 30 are probably better choices.






 

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 12:30 AM, n4buq wrote:


If this is the Siemens motor version, HP also used this motor in the 8640B
signal generator so searching for replacement parts for that might reveal some
possibilities.
AFAIK, the same one is used in the HP 8620 main frame. These are sometimes offered at low prices. I have two but just one plugin. The fan in both is fine.

Raymond


ChrisBeee
 

Jim,
these SAE class motor oils are definitely not the right choice for this application! They usually contain cleaning additives and stabilizers which are counterproductive for the function of sintered bearings.
Sintered bearings need an oil that is able to immerse into the pores of the bearing sleeve and, once applied, provides a continuous 'micro-flow' of lubricant as needed to bridge the bearing play/gap. You should look for a synthetic oil since mineral oils deteriorate over the time, get sticky and cloak up the pores in the bearing.
Here in Europe, definitely the best product for sintered bearings is Kluber IsoFlex PDP65. In the US, Athan Corp for example carries a similar oil, look for ATH-LUB-1. Not sure which brand they re-badge. These oils are relatively expensive in general, but the products-to-go. There are certainly other products available in the US which do the job, the difficulty is rather to get them in small volumes. You won't need a gallon of it in life time, except you want to throw a sinter lube party...
Chris