Beware of old AntiStatic foam


-
 

Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen


David Slipper
 

Nasty!!  I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave

On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen



Harvey White
 

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the damaged item if you call them.  Their warranty is "repair or replace", but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey

On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog.  This is exactly the kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen







Ken, WA2LBI
 

That old foam is awful stuff. I’ve had headphone head bands and ear pads
crumble to dust. I’ve also lost ICs that were pressed into the foam.
Foam-lined storage cases have damaged or destroyed stored items. Old
microphone inserts become dust. There are many other examples...

A few years ago, after many leaking batteries - some still new in the
package, I removed every Duracell battery from every device I own. I’ve
lost a number of flashlights, kid’s toys, remote controls, etc. The worst
is the damage done to my electronic test gear. I switched to Energizer and,
since then, have not had a single device device damaged by battery leakage.

The other item to check is the stick on feet used on so much equipment. As
we know, they turn to a slimy, sticky mess that also gets on the adjacent
surface and is difficult to remove. At the very least, over time, they
“migrate” from their original position and leave a slimy trail.

<rant off>

Ken
WA2LBI


On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen
--
Ken
WA2LBI

Sent from one of my mobile devices


greenboxmaven
 

Tales abound about polyurethane sheet and foam.  There is no doubt it decomposes, almost overnight, into a vile mess.  One explanation I have seen is based on industrial disagreement. Supposedly, the original formulations of polyurethane were quite stable. When other companies began to make it, the formula was not correct. Various legal issues supposedly prevented the correct formula from being used, and the results are seen everywhere today. One very costly failure occured with pipe organs. The valving mechanisms have used leather for centuries, but it is perishable. In the early 1970s, a quantity of original formula polyurethane was obtained and put into use by the organ industry. It worked very well, and is still working well today. Once that supply was consumed, new production did not use the complete or correct formula, and the results were a multi million dollar disaster. A similar disaster occured with recording tape made in the early 1970s. Fortunately, the tapes can often be made to play well enough to transfer their recordings by baking them for several hours at the correct temperature.

   Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 12:00, Harvey White wrote:
As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the damaged item if you call them.  Their warranty is "repair or replace", but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog.  This is exactly the kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen










snapdiode <snapdiode@...>
 

Yes I've gotten a dozen or so Commodore computer chips damaged that way, I just scraped off the residue with tweezers and hope that there isn't too much chemical residue left for damage to continue.


Renée
 

unfortunately I too have had the same experience. foam-lost a bunch of microprocessors and assorted items that I thought were in safe place....
and regarding Duracell---lost a couple pieces of test equip..now this was a long time ago-their answer was "send it in we will fixit"...well I did that with one item and then they said not repairable and it is too old to replace...we disposed of it for you and sent me a cheque for cost of shipping and a coupon for more batteries. furious was not the word i would use......Duracell is !@#$%* no more around here...somewhere we (as a consumer of things) want stuff cheap and well we received cheap.
with regard to duracell...IMHO there is no excuse! more of us need to vote with our wallets....

as a friend of mine eons ago said....."If you buy quality, then long after the price is forgotten the quality remains"
and that is why many of us are here.
Renée

On 3/21/21 9:18 AM, Ken, WA2LBI wrote:
That old foam is awful stuff. I’ve had headphone head bands and ear pads
crumble to dust. I’ve also lost ICs that were pressed into the foam.
Foam-lined storage cases have damaged or destroyed stored items. Old
microphone inserts become dust. There are many other examples...

A few years ago, after many leaking batteries - some still new in the
package, I removed every Duracell battery from every device I own. I’ve
lost a number of flashlights, kid’s toys, remote controls, etc. The worst
is the damage done to my electronic test gear. I switched to Energizer and,
since then, have not had a single device device damaged by battery leakage.

The other item to check is the stick on feet used on so much equipment. As
we know, they turn to a slimy, sticky mess that also gets on the adjacent
surface and is difficult to remove. At the very least, over time, they
“migrate” from their original position and leave a slimy trail.

<rant off>

Ken
WA2LBI


On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen
--
Ken
WA2LBI

Sent from one of my mobile devices




Eric-K0ELB
 

This is well known in the gun community, people buy those nice hard shell plastic gun cases with the foam inside and leave their guns in there for years, and corrosion always results.

They found out that the real problem is the type of foam. Open celled foam will absorb moisture and thus corrode anything that's stored in it for a length of time. Even if it's covered in oil like a firearm usually is. The more humid the area you live in the worse it is, obviously. The trick is to never leave anything you want to use again in foam.

For storing things like IC's, I would use something like a small hard plastic case and no foam at all. And check them at least once a year.


Bert Haskins
 

On 3/21/2021 12:18 PM, Ken, WA2LBI wrote:
That old foam is awful stuff. I’ve had headphone head bands and ear pads
crumble to dust. I’ve also lost ICs that were pressed into the foam.
Foam-lined storage cases have damaged or destroyed stored items. Old
microphone inserts become dust. There are many other examples...

A few years ago, after many leaking batteries - some still new in the
package, I removed every Duracell battery from every device I own. I’ve
lost a number of flashlights, kid’s toys, remote controls, etc. The worst
is the damage done to my electronic test gear. I switched to Energizer and,
since then, have not had a single device device damaged by battery leakage.

The other item to check is the stick on feet used on so much equipment. As
we know, they turn to a slimy, sticky mess that also gets on the adjacent
surface and is difficult to remove. At the very least, over time, they
“migrate” from their original position and leave a slimy trail.

<rant off>

Ken
WA2LBI
The one I really remember is a "Pyle Driver" speaker that used some sort of a foamy glop to anchor the speaker cone.

I really liked this speaker because it had a nice upper mid range presence but then one day I plugged in my guitar and was greeted to some really awful sounds.

The speaker cone had totally come off the frame and there was no sign of the glop.

They are still selling this brand of speakers, I can't begin to guess how they got away with it.

" As we know, they turn to a slimy, sticky mess" Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

And the very worst one is a black semi hard foam that was used in boat fuel lines!
Over the years this stuff would shrink, become tight and then break.
In many cases the fuel line burned up in the resulting fire so the true cause was never known.

- Bert




On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen
--
Ken
WA2LBI

Sent from one of my mobile devices




snapdiode <snapdiode@...>
 

Plastics in general aren't eternal. I have two P6032 probes that are melting and the smell is nauseating. I have to open them up and air them out as soon as I can crack a window open here.


snapdiode <snapdiode@...>
 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Bert Haskins wrote: Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why they can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically eternal in comparison to my lifespan....


Dave Seiter
 

A few years ago, I found a very nice set of lab glassware in a fitted case at an estate sale.  When I got home, half the foam had disintegrated into dust from just driving around, and the rest did when I touched it. At least it wasn't gooey!
-Dave

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 09:01:10 AM PDT, Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them.  Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog.  This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen









stevenhorii
 

I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:

https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen













Dave Seiter
 

Now you have me worried- I have a number of foam-lined trays of PET/CBM-era ICs that I haven't looked at in years.  Fortunately, they are in very dry storage.  One of my "special" chips (a 40 column VIC chip) has been in a conductive rubber socket since the 70's, and I know it's still fine (just checked!)
-Dave

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 09:57:29 AM PDT, snapdiode via groups.io <snapdiode=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes I've gotten a dozen or so Commodore computer chips damaged that way, I just scraped off the residue with tweezers and hope that there isn't too much chemical residue left for damage to continue.


Ken, WA2LBI
 

Those tool handles are another issue. I have a plastic fitted case for a
set of Xcelite nut drivers. They have quite an odor. I have to leave the
case open unless I'm traveling away from the workshop. I also have a number
of other tools, mostly screwdrivers, that have the same awful odor. I have
taken to inserting a block of wood in the toolboxes to keep the lids
slightly open so the odor can vent and I'm not blasted with a concentrated
"cloud" when I open the box.

Ken
WA2LBI

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:49 PM stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:

I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:


https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen

















Dave Seiter
 

I have a number of plastic toy rail cars from the 40's (American Flyer, I believe) that were my fathers, and have a similar problem.  Either the plasticizer or mold release has resulted in white deposits (on both the plastic and metal parts) over the years that also smells like vomit.  Very hard to remove from the plastic.  I too have a set of Xcelite nut drivers that smell "weird".  Not like vomit, and there's no corrosion, but I like to let them air out before I use them.
-Dave

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 11:49:23 AM PDT, stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:



Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.


greenboxmaven
 

One reason polyurethane was so popular for drive rollers and belts is it's traction. Many tape recorders used them because they could be smaller and cheaper yet able to grip and carry the power. It is certainly possible to find replacements that will fit, but often they will slip under heavy load.

    Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 14:26, snapdiode via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Bert Haskins wrote:
Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why they can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically eternal in comparison to my lifespan....




greenboxmaven
 

Polyethylene definately seems to be benign and long lasting.  With regard to Xcelite handles and other items, I had to spend my youth in the place many of those stinky plastics were developed and made. The entire town smelled like the plastic, it was not nice. In addition to stinking and getting covered with white crud, the plastics often shrink and warp as they age. One positive thing about those plastics was their feel and grip confort. Many vintage typewriters and teleprinters had keys made of them because they were easier on fingers after hours of typing.

   Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 14:49, stevenhorii wrote:
I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:

https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen











-
 

Steven said:

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

That butyrate plastic deteriorates into butyric acid and yes, I'm told
that that is what gives vomit it's nauseating smell. It's similar to, or
the same, compound found in milk that is going bad so human reaction to
that smell is thought to be a survival mechanism. I soak those old Xcelite
tools in full strength household ammonia and then scrub them with a brass
bristle brush or a tough nylon pot scrubber and that will remove the white
film on the tools. You may need to repeat the process a few times.
Surprisingly, even a brass bristle brush doesn't seem to harm or to scratch
up the plastic handles (YMMV!) I've cleaned several dozens of Xcelite
tools like this over the past 6 or 7 years and I've never found any sign of
damage by cleaning that way.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 2:49 PM stevenhorii <sonodocsch@gmail.com> wrote:

I think polyethylene foam instead of the black polyurethane foam does not
have the “get goopy and stick to everything” problem. Has anyone had
polyethylene foam degrade like the black stuff? I have not - either black
or white polyethylene has stood the “test of time”. I have seen foam rubber
turn to dust, but at least it does not (in my experience) get sticky.

Apparently the polyurethane foams also outgas as they degrade and this can
leave deposits on stuff - think camera optics as many camera carrying cases
use polyurethane foam.

If I have some custom-fitted black foam in a transit case, I put the item
in a plastic bag and before putting it back in the case.

Another “plastic rot” question. I have a set of Xcelite tools. One of them,
a stubby Philips screwdriver, developed a white coating on it that was
impossible to remove without sanding it off. I could get some of it off,
but it kept re-developing this. None of the other tool handles has done
this. The handles, I believe, are a butyrate plastic that gives off butyric
acid as it oxidizes but they all are and this is the only one that
developed this white coating. The whole tool kit smells rather like vomit
(my wife refers to it as my “vomit tool case”) but this is common with
butyrate plastic-handled tools.

A comment on Duracell batteries. I am pretty sure there are counterfeits
out there - particularly the “bulk packs” with no Duracell label on the
outside. Here’s an article on fakes:


https://www.thecounterfeitreport.com/product/106/Duracell-Coppertop-AA---AAA-Batteries.html

When I have had Duracell batteries (the AA ones in particular) leak, on
checking, they were the ones I bought in unlabeled bulk packs. I generally
remove batteries from equipment I am not going to use frequently.

Steve Horii

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:01 Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

As I've mentioned previously, the latest run of Duracell (guaranteed not
to leak before 10 years) does exactly that, and often in the package.

The good news is that they will often give you money to replace the
damaged item if you call them. Their warranty is "repair or replace",
but you do have to call.

I've had the foam in probe cases crumble, (both HP and Tek), anti static
foam corrode and crumble, etc...

Harvey


On 3/21/2021 9:50 AM, David Slipper wrote:
Nasty!! I wonder what other time-bombs are awaiting us!?

I'll certainly be checking my stock of bits and spares.

I always assumed that a famous brand of NiMh batteries were supposed
to be leak proof - Hah! I nearly lost a pair of nice walky-talkies and
a multimeter that way, so now cells get removed from rarely used items
and I make a point of checking torches and the like regularly.

Sadly not surprised at anything these days,
Dave


On 21/03/2021 13:07, - wrote:
Well, this thread just showed up on EEVBlog. This is exactly the
kind of
damage that I used to see happen to IC and to TE accessories that were
stored in the old antistatic foam.

<
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/beware-of-old-antistatic-foam/?topicseen

















-
 

Bruce Gentry said:

One reason polyurethane was so popular for drive rollers and belts is
it's traction. Many tape recorders used them because they could be
smaller and cheaper yet able to grip and carry the power. It is
certainly possible to find replacements that will fit, but often they
will slip under heavy load.

Years ago I talked to one of HP's calculator engineers in Oregon and he
told me that they had about given up on building a reliable card reader for
the HP-65 and similar calculators because of slippage, until they
discovered polyurethane. But it said that it gripped so well that they
could dip the magnetic cards in oil and the polyurethane rollers would
still feed them!

Unfortunately the rollers that HP used in all of their calculators have
all deteriorated with age.



On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 3:59 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy=
verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

One reason polyurethane was so popular for drive rollers and belts is
it's traction. Many tape recorders used them because they could be
smaller and cheaper yet able to grip and carry the power. It is
certainly possible to find replacements that will fit, but often they
will slip under heavy load.

Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY

On 3/21/21 14:26, snapdiode via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM, Bert Haskins wrote:
Yep they used something like this in drive belts also.

Yes my TEAC X-3 just had a "belt melt", it is hard ti understand why
they can't be made in silicone rubber now. That should be practically
eternal in comparison to my lifespan....