Good old postal money orders still work...

Regrettably it isn't that simple; the banking and e-money laws are a mess
and
almost all people have zero chance of understanding them and their
ramifications.

Today's report is...

Some PayPal customers have found it difficult to get reimbursed when
they’ve run
into problems – particularly victims of fraud.
...
Here, we look at how PayPal is failing to protect and reimburse victims of
fraud, and what it can do about it.
...

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/12/how-paypal-fails-fraud-victims/
(Which? used to be far more sensibly named "Consumer Association". It is
generally respected in the UK)


On 07/12/20 14:19, cheater cheater wrote:

Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost

daily"

and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking

at

the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It

doesn't

matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in

any

way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes

or

no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already

been

paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being

done

and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if

it's

possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are

real.

All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost daily"
and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking at
the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It doesn't
matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in any
way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes or
no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost daily"
and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking at
the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It doesn't
matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in any
way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes or
no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paying with paypal from credit card is simpler, but doesn't work in this
case, so you're supposed to do the next simplest thing, which is top up

via

wire transfer and then pay from balance. All this hacked companies

paranoia

is seriously too much, and I say that as a cyber security expert who has
been professionally in IT for 20 years. I've seen and responded to
countless hacks and I know good security awareness is necessary. You're
talking about your bank and about paypal. If either of them get hacked

then

you have much larger problems than whether or not you have the

convenience

of being a git towards Dennis. Have it from the horse's mouth: you're not
being aware of potential problems, you're being unreasonably paranoid,

and

you're cargo-culting security obviously without understanding any of it.
Stop it and just pay Dennis without dragging your feet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:58 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit

card,

then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't

linked a

bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A

credit

card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse

if

things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to

worry

about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data

stolen.

The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer

you

are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <

cheater00social@gmail.com

wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and

then

pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately.

Unless

you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your

head,

money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but

there

are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their

PP

account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known

to

yank

money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so

everyone

that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I

know

that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts

as

well.

Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for

that

reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank

entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net>

wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have

endured

in

trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and

sense

of

duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it

manageable

for

himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then

by

all

means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent

from

my

T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com

wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately. Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to

yank

money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I

know

that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as

well.

Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for

that

reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured

in

trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and

sense

of

duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable

for

himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by

all

means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from

my

T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and sense

of

duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and sense of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

Dennis,

Just a quick note. It's not that I mind paying by Friends and Family or
the fact that I can't get that to work on PP. It's the fact that in order
to use F&F, PP requires that you pay for it from your PP balance or pay a
hefty CC fee. Since I currently have a $0.00 balance in my PP account I
would have to link PP and my credit union account to transfer the funds to
PP but I can't get PP and my credit union to link together so that I can
add funds to my PP account.

I didn't see anything about checks or MO's in your domestic
instructions, all i saw was a lot of complaining about PayPal. I will go
back and look again.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dennis Tillman W7pF <dennis@ridesoft.com>
wrote:

Hi Joe,

I have received at least 60 payments via PayPal, most from the US, so I
can't imagine why PayPal is giving you so much trouble.
I did also mention payment by checks and money orders was also acceptable
in my Domestic Payment Instructions email. Several people have already

sent

their checks so they saw that option and used it. You will find my

address

in that email and since you are already on my order list send me a check
for both books ASAP and use 2 day delivery if that is available to you.

Right now I'm swamped dealing with all the email regarding Peter's book

so

will be keeping my head down until I match the payments with the orders I
have. Getting sick last week slowed me down considerably so now I have a
lot of email to get through to match up orders and payments.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of -
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] I give up.

Sorry Dennis but I'm going to have to cancel my order for two copies of
Peter's CRT book. I'm a LONG time Pay-Pal user but due to a combination

of

reasons; you, PayPal, and my credit union have made it impossible to pay
for the books in the manner that you require. I frequently use PayPal to
pay for purchases on E-bay, Amazon and other sites but those purchases

are

classified as Purchases and paid for through my credit card. It's not

that

I don't trust you but PayPal and my credit card will not allow me to

make a

payment to Friends or Family without the credit card company treating

that

as a cash advance and charging me a $30 fee! I tried to link my bank
account to PayPal and transfer the money for the books from my bank

account

to PayPal and then to you but PayPal won't just accept my banking
information. They require that I sign into my bank account via PayPal's
website however PayPal and/or my credit union never complete that link

so I

am unable to transfer the money to PayPal and subsequently to you.

I appreciate your effort to make these books available but if the only
payment method is via PayPal's Friends and Family, then I simply can't

meet

that condition. If you decide to accept money orders or even <gasp!>

cash,

let me know.

Joe Rigdon,
Florida







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator