I give up.


-
 

Sorry Dennis but I'm going to have to cancel my order for two copies of Peter's CRT book. I'm a LONG time Pay-Pal user but due to a combination of reasons; you, PayPal, and my credit union have made it impossible to pay for the books in the manner that you require. I frequently use PayPal to pay for purchases on E-bay, Amazon and other sites but those purchases are classified as Purchases and paid for through my credit card. It's not that I don't trust you but PayPal and my credit card will not allow me to make a payment to Friends or Family without the credit card company treating that as a cash advance and charging me a $30 fee! I tried to link my bank account to PayPal and transfer the money for the books from my bank account to PayPal and then to you but PayPal won't just accept my banking information. They require that I sign into my bank account via PayPal's website however PayPal and/or my credit union never complete that link so I am unable to transfer the money to PayPal and subsequently to you.

I appreciate your effort to make these books available but if the only payment method is via PayPal's Friends and Family, then I simply can't meet that condition. If you decide to accept money orders or even <gasp!> cash, let me know.

Joe Rigdon,
Florida


 

You could always send the payment as a purchase and add the 3% PayPal fee if Dennis will allow that....


Jean-Paul
 

Dennis has given information on how to pay by check

I used PayPal account with no issues, paid from my PayPal balance, not a credit card.

Jon


 

Hi Joe,

I have received at least 60 payments via PayPal, most from the US, so I can't imagine why PayPal is giving you so much trouble.
I did also mention payment by checks and money orders was also acceptable in my Domestic Payment Instructions email. Several people have already sent their checks so they saw that option and used it. You will find my address in that email and since you are already on my order list send me a check for both books ASAP and use 2 day delivery if that is available to you.

Right now I'm swamped dealing with all the email regarding Peter's book so will be keeping my head down until I match the payments with the orders I have. Getting sick last week slowed me down considerably so now I have a lot of email to get through to match up orders and payments.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of -
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] I give up.

Sorry Dennis but I'm going to have to cancel my order for two copies of Peter's CRT book. I'm a LONG time Pay-Pal user but due to a combination of reasons; you, PayPal, and my credit union have made it impossible to pay for the books in the manner that you require. I frequently use PayPal to pay for purchases on E-bay, Amazon and other sites but those purchases are classified as Purchases and paid for through my credit card. It's not that I don't trust you but PayPal and my credit card will not allow me to make a payment to Friends or Family without the credit card company treating that as a cash advance and charging me a $30 fee! I tried to link my bank account to PayPal and transfer the money for the books from my bank account to PayPal and then to you but PayPal won't just accept my banking information. They require that I sign into my bank account via PayPal's website however PayPal and/or my credit union never complete that link so I am unable to transfer the money to PayPal and subsequently to you.

I appreciate your effort to make these books available but if the only payment method is via PayPal's Friends and Family, then I simply can't meet that condition. If you decide to accept money orders or even <gasp!> cash, let me know.

Joe Rigdon,
Florida







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator


-
 

Dennis,

Just a quick note. It's not that I mind paying by Friends and Family or
the fact that I can't get that to work on PP. It's the fact that in order
to use F&F, PP requires that you pay for it from your PP balance or pay a
hefty CC fee. Since I currently have a $0.00 balance in my PP account I
would have to link PP and my credit union account to transfer the funds to
PP but I can't get PP and my credit union to link together so that I can
add funds to my PP account.

I didn't see anything about checks or MO's in your domestic
instructions, all i saw was a lot of complaining about PayPal. I will go
back and look again.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dennis Tillman W7pF <dennis@ridesoft.com>
wrote:

Hi Joe,

I have received at least 60 payments via PayPal, most from the US, so I
can't imagine why PayPal is giving you so much trouble.
I did also mention payment by checks and money orders was also acceptable
in my Domestic Payment Instructions email. Several people have already sent
their checks so they saw that option and used it. You will find my address
in that email and since you are already on my order list send me a check
for both books ASAP and use 2 day delivery if that is available to you.

Right now I'm swamped dealing with all the email regarding Peter's book so
will be keeping my head down until I match the payments with the orders I
have. Getting sick last week slowed me down considerably so now I have a
lot of email to get through to match up orders and payments.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of -
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] I give up.

Sorry Dennis but I'm going to have to cancel my order for two copies of
Peter's CRT book. I'm a LONG time Pay-Pal user but due to a combination of
reasons; you, PayPal, and my credit union have made it impossible to pay
for the books in the manner that you require. I frequently use PayPal to
pay for purchases on E-bay, Amazon and other sites but those purchases are
classified as Purchases and paid for through my credit card. It's not that
I don't trust you but PayPal and my credit card will not allow me to make a
payment to Friends or Family without the credit card company treating that
as a cash advance and charging me a $30 fee! I tried to link my bank
account to PayPal and transfer the money for the books from my bank account
to PayPal and then to you but PayPal won't just accept my banking
information. They require that I sign into my bank account via PayPal's
website however PayPal and/or my credit union never complete that link so I
am unable to transfer the money to PayPal and subsequently to you.

I appreciate your effort to make these books available but if the only
payment method is via PayPal's Friends and Family, then I simply can't meet
that condition. If you decide to accept money orders or even <gasp!> cash,
let me know.

Joe Rigdon,
Florida







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator






George Onufer
 

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured in trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and sense of duty to the group.  He established ground rules to make it manageable for himself.  If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by all means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


 

If that helps you, I know that in some countries you can also top up your
PayPal balance by sending a wire transfer from your bank account. This
requires no linking. A second option would be for you to find someone else
who has PayPal that's properly linked, give them money, they'll send you a
F&F PayPal transfer, and then you can send that on to Dennis.

Best regards

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 2:06 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Dennis,

Just a quick note. It's not that I mind paying by Friends and Family or
the fact that I can't get that to work on PP. It's the fact that in order
to use F&F, PP requires that you pay for it from your PP balance or pay a
hefty CC fee. Since I currently have a $0.00 balance in my PP account I
would have to link PP and my credit union account to transfer the funds to
PP but I can't get PP and my credit union to link together so that I can
add funds to my PP account.

I didn't see anything about checks or MO's in your domestic
instructions, all i saw was a lot of complaining about PayPal. I will go
back and look again.

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:30 PM Dennis Tillman W7pF <dennis@ridesoft.com>
wrote:

Hi Joe,

I have received at least 60 payments via PayPal, most from the US, so I
can't imagine why PayPal is giving you so much trouble.
I did also mention payment by checks and money orders was also acceptable
in my Domestic Payment Instructions email. Several people have already
sent
their checks so they saw that option and used it. You will find my
address
in that email and since you are already on my order list send me a check
for both books ASAP and use 2 day delivery if that is available to you.

Right now I'm swamped dealing with all the email regarding Peter's book
so
will be keeping my head down until I match the payments with the orders I
have. Getting sick last week slowed me down considerably so now I have a
lot of email to get through to match up orders and payments.

Dennis Tillman W7pF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of -
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:32 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] I give up.

Sorry Dennis but I'm going to have to cancel my order for two copies of
Peter's CRT book. I'm a LONG time Pay-Pal user but due to a combination
of
reasons; you, PayPal, and my credit union have made it impossible to pay
for the books in the manner that you require. I frequently use PayPal to
pay for purchases on E-bay, Amazon and other sites but those purchases
are
classified as Purchases and paid for through my credit card. It's not
that
I don't trust you but PayPal and my credit card will not allow me to
make a
payment to Friends or Family without the credit card company treating
that
as a cash advance and charging me a $30 fee! I tried to link my bank
account to PayPal and transfer the money for the books from my bank
account
to PayPal and then to you but PayPal won't just accept my banking
information. They require that I sign into my bank account via PayPal's
website however PayPal and/or my credit union never complete that link
so I
am unable to transfer the money to PayPal and subsequently to you.

I appreciate your effort to make these books available but if the only
payment method is via PayPal's Friends and Family, then I simply can't
meet
that condition. If you decide to accept money orders or even <gasp!>
cash,
let me know.

Joe Rigdon,
Florida







--
Dennis Tillman W7pF
TekScopes Moderator










Jean-Paul
 

Just post Dennis a check

he mentioned his adresse

Jon


-
 

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and sense of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device





 

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately. Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device









-
 

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately. Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as
well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable
for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by
all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from
my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device













 

Paying with paypal from credit card is simpler, but doesn't work in this
case, so you're supposed to do the next simplest thing, which is top up via
wire transfer and then pay from balance. All this hacked companies paranoia
is seriously too much, and I say that as a cyber security expert who has
been professionally in IT for 20 years. I've seen and responded to
countless hacks and I know good security awareness is necessary. You're
talking about your bank and about paypal. If either of them get hacked then
you have much larger problems than whether or not you have the convenience
of being a git towards Dennis. Have it from the horse's mouth: you're not
being aware of potential problems, you're being unreasonably paranoid, and
you're cargo-culting security obviously without understanding any of it.
Stop it and just pay Dennis without dragging your feet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:58 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com
wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately. Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to
yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I
know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as
well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for
that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have endured
in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and
sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it manageable
for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then by
all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent from
my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

















-
 

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paying with paypal from credit card is simpler, but doesn't work in this
case, so you're supposed to do the next simplest thing, which is top up via
wire transfer and then pay from balance. All this hacked companies paranoia
is seriously too much, and I say that as a cyber security expert who has
been professionally in IT for 20 years. I've seen and responded to
countless hacks and I know good security awareness is necessary. You're
talking about your bank and about paypal. If either of them get hacked then
you have much larger problems than whether or not you have the convenience
of being a git towards Dennis. Have it from the horse's mouth: you're not
being aware of potential problems, you're being unreasonably paranoid, and
you're cargo-culting security obviously without understanding any of it.
Stop it and just pay Dennis without dragging your feet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:58 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't
linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data
stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer
you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <
cheater00social@gmail.com
wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and
then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately.
Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your
head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but
there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known to
yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so
everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I
know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts as
well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for
that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net> wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have
endured
in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and
sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it
manageable
for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then
by
all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent
from
my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device





















 

Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost daily"
and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking at
the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It doesn't
matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in any
way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes or
no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:10 AM cheater cheater <cheater00social@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paying with paypal from credit card is simpler, but doesn't work in this
case, so you're supposed to do the next simplest thing, which is top up
via
wire transfer and then pay from balance. All this hacked companies
paranoia
is seriously too much, and I say that as a cyber security expert who has
been professionally in IT for 20 years. I've seen and responded to
countless hacks and I know good security awareness is necessary. You're
talking about your bank and about paypal. If either of them get hacked
then
you have much larger problems than whether or not you have the
convenience
of being a git towards Dennis. Have it from the horse's mouth: you're not
being aware of potential problems, you're being unreasonably paranoid,
and
you're cargo-culting security obviously without understanding any of it.
Stop it and just pay Dennis without dragging your feet.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 3:58 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

It's much simpler to just pay via PP and have them charge my credit
card,
then there's never a balance in my PayPal account and if I haven't
linked a
bank account to your PP account then they can't debit it either. A
credit
card also has much better protection and you also have legal recourse
if
things go wrong. These days, it isn't just PayPal that you have to
worry
about, plenty of companies have been hacked and their client's data
stolen.
The fewer companies that are linked and the fewer that have any of your
information including information about your other accounts, the safer
you
are.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 12:05 PM cheater cheater <
cheater00social@gmail.com
wrote:

Right, that's why you top it up with the amount you want to pay, and
then
pay. You don't carry a balance - you top up, then pay immediately.
Unless
you're some sort of criminal with an international warrant on your
head,
money will not disappear from your account within one day. There's a
certain amount of paranoia that's healthy with online services, but
there
are limits to reasonable application of that as well.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:53 AM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

George, It's already taken care of.


Cheater, FWIW I don't know anyone that carries a balance in their
PP
account. Not only does PP not pay interest, but PP has been known
to
yank
money back out of their customer's accounts without warning so
everyone
that I know takes their money out of PP as soon as possible. Yes. I
know
that PP can also yank money out of their customer's bank accounts
as
well.
Most people keep only a minimum amount in their linked accounts for
that
reason and keep their main bank account in a different bank
entirely.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:11 AM George Onufer <amatec@att.net>
wrote:

Mr. RigdonI am so sorry to hear of the tribulations you have
endured
in
trying to buy these books.Dennis took on this task (beyond the
resposibility he already had as moderator) out of his respect and
sense
of
duty to the group. He established ground rules to make it
manageable
for
himself. If, for whatever reason, these don't work for you, then
by
all
means he should make a special exception in your case.GeorgeSent
from
my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

























Tom Gardner
 

Regrettably it isn't that simple; the banking and e-money laws are a mess and almost all people have zero chance of understanding them and their ramifications.

Today's report is...

Some PayPal customers have found it difficult to get reimbursed when they’ve run into problems – particularly victims of fraud.
...
Here, we look at how PayPal is failing to protect and reimburse victims of fraud, and what it can do about it.
...

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/12/how-paypal-fails-fraud-victims/
(Which? used to be far more sensibly named "Consumer Association". It is generally respected in the UK)

On 07/12/20 14:19, cheater cheater wrote:
Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost daily"
and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking at
the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It doesn't
matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in any
way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes or
no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.


Colin Herbert
 

"Which" was a magazine produced by the Consumers' Association. It appears that the CA, which is a charity, sits at the top of the Which? Group.
Colin.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Gardner
Sent: 07 December 2020 17:15
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] I give up.

Regrettably it isn't that simple; the banking and e-money laws are a mess and
almost all people have zero chance of understanding them and their ramifications.

Today's report is...

Some PayPal customers have found it difficult to get reimbursed when they’ve run
into problems – particularly victims of fraud.
...
Here, we look at how PayPal is failing to protect and reimburse victims of
fraud, and what it can do about it.
...

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/12/how-paypal-fails-fraud-victims/
(Which? used to be far more sensibly named "Consumer Association". It is
generally respected in the UK)


On 07/12/20 14:19, cheater cheater wrote:
Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost daily"
and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking at
the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It doesn't
matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in any
way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes or
no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.


stevenhorii
 

I’ve been fortunate (so far) with PayPal. They even refunded a purchase
amount even before I asked for it. It was a mistake on the part of the
seller - apparently he did something that resulted in him getting paid
twice. PayPal must have noticed and investigated because they refunded one
of the payments (identical amounts). I contacted the seller and he said it
was a mistake (I believed him - he has a solid feedback record and
delivered my item well-packed and on-time) and though he didn’t angrily
blame eBay, he did say that he thought it was something to do with what
seemed to be a time delay in eBay responding to him, so he clicked the
payment button again.

I actually have a similar situation cooking now. We’ll see how PayPal
responds. A Web site I purchased a journal article from ended the
transaction because my “response took more than 30 minutes”. My time to
send the payment from PayPal was about 30 seconds. The payment went
through, but I needed the article for a lecture I was preparing, so I just
logged in again and bought it with a credit card. PayPal sent me the usual
notice of payment, so the publisher got paid twice. My next step is to
contact them about it.

Steve H.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 12:15 Tom Gardner <tggzzz@gmail.com> wrote:

Regrettably it isn't that simple; the banking and e-money laws are a mess
and
almost all people have zero chance of understanding them and their
ramifications.

Today's report is...

Some PayPal customers have found it difficult to get reimbursed when
they’ve run
into problems – particularly victims of fraud.
...
Here, we look at how PayPal is failing to protect and reimburse victims of
fraud, and what it can do about it.
...

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/12/how-paypal-fails-fraud-victims/
(Which? used to be far more sensibly named "Consumer Association". It is
generally respected in the UK)


On 07/12/20 14:19, cheater cheater wrote:
Yeah no, asking me if I can deny "major data thefts" happen "almost
daily"
and then transferring that to whether you'll lose money on PayPal is just
high level crackpottery, and if you think this is a valid way of looking
at
the world, then you should have a long hard look in the mirror. It
doesn't
matter how long you've been "doing computers", obviously you're not in
any
way capable of talking about computer security. Some sort of nebulous
"potential problems" with nebulous "companies involved in e-commerce" are
just paranoid thoughts, you can't even answer such a question with a yes
or
no, you've constructed it to give yourself worry.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 6:16 PM - <rrrr6789@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you haven't been reading the messages but Dennis has already
been
paid and that's all taken care of. But I have to admit that I hadn't
considered a wire transfer INTO PayPal. I've never heard of that being
done
and there's nothing about it on their website and I don't even know if
it's
possible. I don't think that it is but perhaps.

I was talking about the potential problems of PayPal and other
companies involved in E-commerce. And you can't deny that those are
real.
All you have to do is to read any newspaper or watch any TV news to know
that major data thefts are happening almost daily. And your 20 years is
nothing, that was when Windows 98 was still new. I beta tested Windows
1.1! I started programming in 1969 in APL on an IBM 1130 and had been
tinkering with computer hardware for two years before that. I was the
person that installed *the* first computers for the Gallup poll in New
Jersey (another IBM 1130 with added core memory) , Virginia Military
Institute and Washington and Lee university and a host of others back in
the mid-1970s.






Mlynch001
 

I have had a very strange situation, not the fault of PayPal, but people should be aware when using a Business Debit or Credit card for any purchase. I recently had a charge on my business card from an online backup company. They had my card on file, for Automatic renewal. I did not want to renew, and did not give them my “new” expiration. Thinking this would prevent them from charging me. Regardless, they ran the charge through by “guessing” my expiration date (wrong) and, even though they got the expiration wrong, the charge went through. I had to fight with the company for a refund. I found out that this is a quirk in Arkansas law that allows a business credit or debit card to be charged, as long as they have the card # correct, even when they provide the “wrong” expiration. This may be isolated to Arkansas, but needless to say, I no longer store or save my business card online with any company, including PayPal.

--
Michael Lynch
Dardanelle, AR


snapdiode
 

Good old postal money orders still work...


Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
 

Postal money orders are a bit problematic.

The banks won't cash them.

The post offices will only cash them if they
have enough money in their drawer.

Since COVID, most folks are using credit cards,
so that is almost never if it is a big money order.

Otherwise they work great.

-Chuck Harris

snapdiode via groups.io wrote:

Good old postal money orders still work...