Date
1 - 19 of 19
Multi-section electrolytic capacitors from Hayseed
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PAUL KOBY
I have used Hayseedhamfest for multisection caps for an HP VTVM rebuild. They make great caps.
Their only draw back is they are not inexpesive. Paul Koby KA5OBI
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John Atwood
FWI: Antique Electronic Supply (tubesandmore.com <http://tubesandmore.com/>) sells new manufacture twist-lock electrolytics under their “CE Manufacturing" brand. They bought the tooling and equipment from Aerovox when Aerovox shut down their line ten or fifteen years ago. The property tags on the equipment say “Mallory”, though. They do have a source for cans, tabs, phenolic bases, etched foil, etc., but I doubt they would sell them to individuals. The capacitors are a bit expensive, but they are the real deal, not restuffed cans. See:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors?filters=Brand%3DCE%20Manufacturing <https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/capacitors?filters=Brand=CE%20Manufacturing> My connection: I do occasional consulting for them. - John Atwood, WA1ICI
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greenboxmaven
I worked at a sound equipment boutique as a retirement job for a few years. They had a store in a local shopping mall. I went in one day, told them I had worked on what they were selling back in the early 70s, and was promptly asked if I would be willing to do it again. With some reluctance, I agreed to, the money would be nice. I am painfully familiar with the demands of some customers as far as parts used, and we repaired a lot of Mcintosh gear, both tube and solid state. I became fond of Bang & Olufsen gear, and amassed a good collection, some of which I have restored. There was another technician there, we had powerful personal differences that ultimately made me decide working there was not worth it. I did mostly restorations of gear for sale, and changing out fifty year old condensers was a major part of it. When I left, they showed me statistics of my productivity, reliability of my repairs, profitability, and customer returns. The other person was abysmal in comparison. It was interesting and the money was welcome, but I have too much of my own stuff to work on.
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Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 11/21/20 4:56 PM, Thomas Garson wrote:
Bruce,
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Michael Wyatt
I think the caps from Hayseed Hamfest are stuffed. Check out the video from Blue Glow Electronics.
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SBS ClassicTone Closing - Hayseed Hamfest - Western Electric Solder - Room Acoustics - and More | | | | | | | | | | | SBS ClassicTone Closing - Hayseed Hamfest - Western Electric Solder - Ro... | | | That said I guess its a matter of if you want to do it yourself or pay some else to do it for you. Michael
On Saturday, November 21, 2020, 4:56:40 PM EST, Thomas Garson <tgarson@auraltek.com> wrote:
Bruce, Regarding non Hayseed capacitors: I also have had less than stellar experience with new manufacture multi section cans. I've reverted to stuffing old cans with new caps. My method of "reloading" old capacitor cans is a bit different than yours. I've become fairly adept at using a small set of side cutters to remove only the crimp which holds the (bottom) cap in place. Sometimes I have to heat the can a bit to get the old guts out. Usually, I can save the solder tabs. I epoxy the two phenolic discs together to hold the tabs in place then drill small holes next to them for the capacitor leads (or extension wires, if needed) to come up through. Because I leave out the flexible insulating layer, there is enough aluminum left at the can bottom to re-curl it around the newly re-stuffed can. The assembly is only about 3/32" shorter than the original and is otherwise indiscernible different. Knowing how these things are made, I think trying to replace just one section in an old cap can is a potential disaster. Would never try it. Regarding Hayseed caps: Never heard of them prior to this conversation. If they make a good product, there will be times when I would go that route for the convenience or if I can't come up with a combination of discrete capacitors that will fit. Sometimes the price is no object. I have clients with tube audio components who spent many thousands of dollars on them and don't want any repairs that don't appear original or "custom better". "Chrome Plated Bumper Bolts" are a hot item in collectible audio. Nothing ruins the sound of a classic McIntosh amplifier like rust pitting of the chromed chassis! Thomas Garson Aural Technology, Ashland, OR By my calculation, the dynamic range of the universe is roughly 679dB, which is approximately 225 bits, collected at a rate 1.714287514x10^23 sps. On 11/21/20 9:40 AM, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote: I would like to find a source for empty condenser cans and bases so you
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Tom Lee
Like Thomas, I’ve always just restuffed these caps. Modern caps are enough smaller that they can almost always be made to fit. I’ve never felt a need for new cans.
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Cheers Tom Sent from my iThing, so please forgive brevity and typos
On Nov 21, 2020, at 13:56, Thomas Garson <tgarson@auraltek.com> wrote:
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Thomas Garson
Bruce,
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Regarding non Hayseed capacitors: I also have had less than stellar experience with new manufacture multi section cans. I've reverted to stuffing old cans with new caps. My method of "reloading" old capacitor cans is a bit different than yours. I've become fairly adept at using a small set of side cutters to remove only the crimp which holds the (bottom) cap in place. Sometimes I have to heat the can a bit to get the old guts out. Usually, I can save the solder tabs. I epoxy the two phenolic discs together to hold the tabs in place then drill small holes next to them for the capacitor leads (or extension wires, if needed) to come up through. Because I leave out the flexible insulating layer, there is enough aluminum left at the can bottom to re-curl it around the newly re-stuffed can. The assembly is only about 3/32" shorter than the original and is otherwise indiscernible different. Knowing how these things are made, I think trying to replace just one section in an old cap can is a potential disaster. Would never try it. Regarding Hayseed caps: Never heard of them prior to this conversation. If they make a good product, there will be times when I would go that route for the convenience or if I can't come up with a combination of discrete capacitors that will fit. Sometimes the price is no object. I have clients with tube audio components who spent many thousands of dollars on them and don't want any repairs that don't appear original or "custom better". "Chrome Plated Bumper Bolts" are a hot item in collectible audio. Nothing ruins the sound of a classic McIntosh amplifier like rust pitting of the chromed chassis! Thomas Garson Aural Technology, Ashland, OR By my calculation, the dynamic range of the universe is roughly 679dB, which is approximately 225 bits, collected at a rate 1.714287514x10^23 sps.
On 11/21/20 9:40 AM, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:
I would like to find a source for empty condenser cans and bases so you could buy them and assemple your own condensers. The versitility to make what you need and repalce only the failed sections would be very welcome. I have never especially liked the idea of one big condenser winding being devided into portions. I have had too many problems of leakage or signals crossing from one section to another ( like the AGC portion in a Hammarlund HQ-180), plus the need to change the entire thing when one section fails. I can understand the convenience to a manufacturer, but the problems to the equipment owner are not welcome. Meanwhile, I will cut the cans in two, emply them, put in new condensers and put a shrink tube cover over them to hold everything together. To answer you question, I have a couple big hifi amplifiers that use multi section condensers. The replacements are NOT Hayseed brand, but another well known maker, and all of them have failed at less than five years of age. What have other people experienced with contemporary can condenser makers?
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boid_twitty
. . . . though I haven't bought from them, Hudson has a pretty extensive
catalog of tooling-free pert sizes. https://catalog.hudson-technologies.com/category/standard-round-cases RL
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boid_twitty
Deep-drawn aluminum cans can be ordered from Zero Mfg.
https://catalog.zerocases.com/category/deep-drawn-cans They are not cheap, and you'd have to work on any kind of crimp seal for the part size you're interested in. RL.
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Ed Breya
I think people have been searching for new empty capacitor cans and base parts for a long time. I've never seen any reports of finding these things, although you know somebody must make them still, to supply cap manufacturers (unless they make their own in-house). Metalworking outfits that do Al drawing and tubing would likely be the suppliers, but only in OEM high volume contract situations - I doubt that you'll find retail small quantities.
Most people just rebuild from the old parts, using various well known techniques. I myself am of the un-crimp - re-crimp school of thought, and have had great success many times. A carefully done crimp method can work nicely about twice - once the first time, leaving the cap looking nearly original, and a second time if necessary again, but with uglier results as the crimp edge material degrades. Beyond that, it still works, but likely needs adhesives, and gets uglier yet. I save any twist-locks and shot computer grade ones I happen to find, and keep them as-is, or gut them when convenient, and save all the husks and base parts for possible use. These are for maintenance only - I would never use a twist-lock for a new application, but I would use certain big old computer grade types, since I have a lot of still good ones. Ed
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Dave Daniel
Yes, of course they are separarate capacitors in one can. That is obvious.
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The point of replacing a multi-cap can is to be able to keep the same form-factor. DaveD
On Nov 21, 2020, at 13:40, Richard Knoppow <dickburk@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
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Richard Knoppow
Well, the caps I opened were different, that's all I can say. I suppose if all the voltages are the same it could be a segmented capacitor but if the voltages are different they could not be.
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On 11/21/2020 11:12 AM, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:
I have opened and rebuilt hundreds of can condensers over the years-all old ones. They all used one winding of paper and aluminum foil, like a jelly roll. The common electrode extends the length of the entire winding, the sections are seperate segments that are laid out then rolled up together. It is quite possible the new condensers do use individual off the shelf condensers in the can, or maybe individual rolls for each section. With regards to failure of one section, if the failure is loss of capacitance and the internal resisitance rising, then the entire can is likely to fail. If one section has suffered catastrophic failure, and the others test good, chances are an individual condenser can be added to the equipment to take the place of the failed section and it will be a satisfying and lasting repair. When doing this, be sure to disconnect the failed section from the circuitry, often inconvenient because the terminals on can condensers are usually used as tie points for many connections. --
Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com WB6KBL
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Someone on news:sci.electronics.repair asked them about cans and bases.
They refused to make anything available except entire capacitors. I have searched for a source of empty, new deep drawn aluminum cans with nothing promising. It would likely take someone working in China to find a supplier who would tool up and sell less than MOQ of 10K-100K units. Emachineshop could likely supply the steel parts. I have access to a limited supply of aluminum tubing drops from a local company that is 1-5/8" in varying lengths. Grainger and others sell hole plugs that would close the open end, yet allow you to reuse the container for future repairs. They offer CAD software on the website to design custom metal parts. That would just leave the need for new terminal boards for the bottom of the cans. www.emachineshop.com On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 1:48 PM greenboxmaven via groups.io <ka2ivy= verizon.net@groups.io> wrote: I suppose someone would need to be couragious enough to ask them. With
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greenboxmaven
I have opened and rebuilt hundreds of can condensers over the years-all old ones. They all used one winding of paper and aluminum foil, like a jelly roll. The common electrode extends the length of the entire winding, the sections are seperate segments that are laid out then rolled up together. It is quite possible the new condensers do use individual off the shelf condensers in the can, or maybe individual rolls for each section. With regards to failure of one section, if the failure is loss of capacitance and the internal resisitance rising, then the entire can is likely to fail. If one section has suffered catastrophic failure, and the others test good, chances are an individual condenser can be added to the equipment to take the place of the failed section and it will be a satisfying and lasting repair. When doing this, be sure to disconnect the failed section from the circuitry, often inconvenient because the terminals on can condensers are usually used as tie points for many connections.
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Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY off the shelf condensers inside the cans, or individual rolls.
On 11/21/20 1:40 PM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
I think you will find that multiple capacitors are actually separate caps in the same can. Since the elements were made at the same time and have the same history its very likely that if one fails the others will fail soon. Better to replace the whole thing.
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greenboxmaven
I suppose someone would need to be couragious enough to ask them. With experiences I have endured for many years, I have great fear they would be very angry at request that would reduce their profits or give the consumer an option. I have no idea how many American companies would be able or willing to tool up for that kind of fairly low volume metal drawing and stamping. It might be far more practical to try to find a Chinese company willing to fabricate the cans and bases.
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Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 11/21/20 12:50 PM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Contact Hayseed Hamfest and ask them from where they buy their cans, I have found them to be very supportive of off-the-wall questions,
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Richard Knoppow
I think you will find that multiple capacitors are actually separate caps in the same can. Since the elements were made at the same time and have the same history its very likely that if one fails the others will fail soon. Better to replace the whole thing.
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I don't know if tom sells components but you can ask him.
On 11/21/2020 9:50 AM, Dave Daniel wrote:
Contact Hayseed Hamfest and ask them from where they buy their cans, I have found them to be very supportive of off-the-wall questions, --
Richard Knoppow dickburk@ix.netcom.com WB6KBL
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Dave Daniel
Contact Hayseed Hamfest and ask them from where they buy their cans, I have found them to be very supportive of off-the-wall questions,
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DaveD
On 11/21/2020 12:40 PM, greenboxmaven via groups.io wrote:
I would like to find a source for empty condenser cans and bases so you could buy them and assemple your own condensers. The versitility to make what you need and repalce only the failed sections would be very welcome. I have never especially liked the idea of one big condenser winding being devided into portions. I have had too many problems of leakage or signals crossing from one section to another ( like the AGC portion in a Hammarlund HQ-180), plus the need to change the entire thing when one section fails. I can understand the convenience to a manufacturer, but the problems to the equipment owner are not welcome. Meanwhile, I will cut the cans in two, emply them, put in new condensers and put a shrink tube cover over them to hold everything together. To answer you question, I have a couple big hifi amplifiers that use multi section condensers. The replacements are NOT Hayseed brand, but another well known maker, and all of them have failed at less than five years of age. What have other people experienced with contemporary can condenser makers? --
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greenboxmaven
I would like to find a source for empty condenser cans and bases so you could buy them and assemple your own condensers. The versitility to make what you need and repalce only the failed sections would be very welcome. I have never especially liked the idea of one big condenser winding being devided into portions. I have had too many problems of leakage or signals crossing from one section to another ( like the AGC portion in a Hammarlund HQ-180), plus the need to change the entire thing when one section fails. I can understand the convenience to a manufacturer, but the problems to the equipment owner are not welcome. Meanwhile, I will cut the cans in two, emply them, put in new condensers and put a shrink tube cover over them to hold everything together. To answer you question, I have a couple big hifi amplifiers that use multi section condensers. The replacements are NOT Hayseed brand, but another well known maker, and all of them have failed at less than five years of age. What have other people experienced with contemporary can condenser makers?
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Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 11/21/20 9:21 AM, Dave Daniel wrote:
I've purchased from Hayseed Hamfest multiple times. My purchases have been for Heathkit gear.
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Dave Daniel
I've purchased from Hayseed Hamfest multiple times. My purchases have been for Heathkit gear.
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I don't know if there are many Tektronix instruments that use multi-section caps. But for Heathkit replacements, Hayseed Hamfest has been invaluable. DaveD
On 11/21/2020 5:01 AM, John Shadbolt wrote:
Hi, --
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Hi,
Are there many Tek units that use multi-section electrolytic capacitors? I came across this company that have a range of new caps available and can make custom orders, I've not used them but would welcome any feedback: https://hayseedhamfest.com/ Regards, John
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