Hi David,
Yes, I was the one that discovered that Deane hated the metric system. That
came as a shock to me at the time. Deane was always quiet spoken but his
reaction to my mentioning the metric system was so negative and so animated
that I was stunned and not sure if I should apologize for whatever it was I
had done.

We had been talking quietly at the Seaside Oregon Ham Fest about 6-7 years
ago. Suddenly everything turned upside down. It was clear to me that I
struck a nerve. This was so out of character that I thought a lot about it
until I came up with a possible explanation. Deane was responsible for
maintaining stock for tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of
parts.

In 1975 Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act to finally switch the US.
A pharmacist wouldn't do anything differently under the metric system but
tens of thousands of parts would have to be modified or discarded in favor
of metric versions. I'm not referring to electrical units which are already
metric, but anything mechanical would need to change. The costs to a company
like Tek with a huge inventory of parts would be expensive and time
consuming. There is no telling when the companies Tek buys parts from would
be able to produce metric parts. What would Tek do in the meantime. It would
be inevitable that during the transition instruments would be built with a
an ever changing assortment of English and metric parts. How would you keep
track of which instrument had which parts?

Metrification would have been a nightmare for Deane had it survived. I'm
sure Deane breathed a sigh of relief when the metrification of the US
fizzled shortly after it started.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH>
------------------------------------

Subject: [TekScopes] Deane Kidd and the Metric System

Metrification would have been a nightmare for Deane had it survived. I'm sure Deane breathed a

sigh

of relief when the metrification of the US fizzled shortly after it started.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

That is a very interesting story Dennis. It must have come as a shock when you touched Deane's
nerve. But oddly you have had metric currency for a whole lot longer than we have in the UK.

But of course, we in the UK went through the whole metrication process. However it was more
protracted than I remember https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom , which
is why it is a success, and full of imperial hangovers that I mentioned in an earlier post.

The last metric bastion for me, and this is recently, is navigation by map and compass. I used to
estimate in miles distance and feet of elevation gained. Then someone who I respect said "What on
earth are you doing that for? Ordnance Survey maps are divided into kilometre squares, and the
contours are in either 5 or 10 metre intervals". Ding - the light went on.

Craig

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 07:13:05 -0000, you wrote:

...

That is a very interesting story Dennis. It must have come as a shock when you touched Deane's
nerve. But oddly you have had metric currency for a whole lot longer than we have in the UK.

...

Craig

Half dollars, quarters, and nickels divide dollars into halves,
quarters, and twentieths.

Half dollars, quarters, and nickels divide dollars into halves, quarters, and twentieths.


------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH>
------------------------------------

Well yes, but you have 100 pennies to the dollar, same as us to the pound. But we have other coins
too. The 2p(fiftieth), 5p (twentieth), 10p(tenth) 20p(fifth) and 50p(half) and �2(twice). There was
at one stage a 25p coin too (quarter). That doesn't make either you or us non-decimal for currency.
We just divide our decimal base currency whether US dollars or pounds sterling into convenient
chunks.

At least it is a bloody sight easier than our previous system, where a pound was divided into 240
pennies. In fact we had

farthings (quarter penny - think about that for a moment; a 1/960th of a pound!),
ha'penny (half penny)
penny
thruppence (3 of them)
sixpence or half-bob
shilling or bob (12 pennies - living on as the 5p coin)
two shilling or two bob(24 pennies - lives on as the 10p coin)
half crown (2 shillings and 6 pence - or 1/8 pound)

Even for those like me who were brought up with that system until age 15, it was complete madness.
Doing mental arithmetic with it was a nightmare.

Craig

farthings (quarter penny - think about that for a moment; a 1/960th of a pound!), ha'penny (half
penny) penny thruppence (3 of them) sixpence or half-bob shilling or bob (12 pennies - living on

as the

5p coin) two shilling or two bob(24 pennies - lives on as the 10p coin) half crown (2 shillings

and 6

pence - or 1/8 pound)

Apologies - that totally failed to parse. Put that one down to Yahoo.

Craig

Hi Craig,You beat me to it! Some things were priced in Guineas (21 Shillings) too, in fact I think racehorses still are?

  I had a 'Saturday' job at Millets govt surplus store in Cambridge in those days, there were no calculators or cash registers that could add up so all that was handled in my head with no problem. Perhaps it helped with handling numbers to different bases in later life?
Adrian


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:57 AM, "'Craig Sawyers' c.sawyers@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:


  > farthings (quarter penny - think about that for a moment; a 1/960th of a pound!), ha'penny (half

penny) penny thruppence (3 of them) sixpence or half-bob shilling or bob (12 pennies - living on

as the

5p coin) two shilling or two bob(24 pennies - lives on as the 10p coin) half crown (2 shillings

and 6

pence - or 1/8 pound)

Apologies - that totally failed to parse. Put that one down to Yahoo.

Craig

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well yes, but you have 100 pennies to the dollar, same as us to the pound. But we have other coins
too.

<snip>

sixpence or half-bob - also called a "tanner"

two shilling or two bob - also called a "florin"

<snip>

Geoff.

Don't forget the 2 and 6 pence, called a 1/2 Crown.
And the 5 bob called a Crown = 60 pence
Etc etc.

Jim
Ei2BB

On 13 December 2017 at 13:40, geoffrey thomas geoffreythomas@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

Well yes, but you have 100 pennies to the dollar, same as us to the

pound. But we have other coins

too.

<snip>

sixpence or half-bob - also called a "tanner"

two shilling or two bob - also called a "florin"

<snip>

Geoff.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The U.S. used to have a 1/8 dollar designation as a "bit". Two bits equals a quarter and is still sometimes heard amongst the older folks.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

On 13/12/17 13:33, Adrian Nicol fenland787a@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Perhaps it helped with handling numbers to different bases in later life

As kids we were taught arithmetic in quite a few bases, including at least
2,3,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,20,22,112,1760,2040
Naturally we didn't realise we were doing that, we just did it.

But thank all the deities I never had to do that in anger as an adult.
Metrication was, and is, a godsend.

Shortly after metrication of the UK currency came in, I saw a humorous article purporting to be issued by a Government Department which put forward the idea of metrication of time. The year would be re-defined as one thousand days and so “Superannuation” would become “Superkilodayvuation”. Before that point, the article seemed irritating, but believable.

Of course, didn’t the French come up with a similar notion during the Terror?

Colin.



From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 13 December 2017 14:49
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Deane Kidd and the Metric System





On 13/12/17 13:33, Adrian Nicol fenland787a@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Perhaps it helped with handling numbers to different bases in later life

As kids we were taught arithmetic in quite a few bases, including at least
2,3,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,20,22,112,1760,2040
Naturally we didn't realise we were doing that, we just did it.

But thank all the deities I never had to do that in anger as an adult.
Metrication was, and is, a godsend.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shortly after metrication of the UK currency came in, I saw a humorous article purporting to be
issued
by a Government Department which put forward the idea of metrication of time.

I think that was an April Fool.

After the French Revolution, the Republicans metricating the year. And the clock. There were 12
renamed months, and each one had three weeks of ten days. Not quite perfect, because that is 360 days.
Once Napoleon took over he wasted no time in scrapping it and going back to the original Gregorian
calendar.

Of course there is metric music, in which the octave is divided into ten notes rather than twelve
http://www.derek-hasted.co.uk/assets/audio/derek-hasted/ten-tone.mp3

Craig

Not forgetting the Guinea (£1 1s 0d == 1.05 in new money) ...

Dave

About once a week my wife asks me a question which goes something like this:
The recipe calls for 1 teaspoon of xxx per 8oz of yyy, how many ounces of
xxx do I need if I'm making two gallons of yyy?

Our paper currency is metric, but our coinage is a throwback to older times
and it is starting to change as pennies are becoming too worthless to be
bothered with in many cases. As to the rest consider this mess:
* There are five pennies in a nickel
* There are two nickels in a dime
* There are five nickels (or 25 pennies) in a quarter.
* A quarter is a quarter (1/4) of a dollar so there are four in a dollar
* A bit was 1/8th of a dollar so a quarter is also known as "two bits". This
goes back to when the dominant currency was the Spanish dollar (also known
as pieces of eight) which was worth 8 Spanish silver reales. One reale was
one bit.
* A half dollar (a coin most people would rather not have in their pocket
because of its weight) is worth two quarters, four bits, five dimes, ten
nickels, or 50 pennies.
* A dollar is made up of 20 nickels, 10 dimes, 4 quarters, 2 fifty-cent
pieces or any combination that adds up to 100 pennies. Most dollars are
paper but there are silver dollar coins as well although the mint stopped
making them a long time ago so they are more of a collector's item.

Thank goodness we don't have the Looney (the Canadian $2 coin). We do have
the $2 bill but it is not in common usage. It is more a novelty. Some people
believe it is unlucky to receive one.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

Dennis,

I have to agree that somehow $2.00 does not seem
to fit into a metric system. On the other hand
don't knock the $2.00 coin. Here in Oz we have
$2.00 coins and they are quite handy, because
they are much smaller compared to the $1.00
coins. Our 50 cent coins on the other hand are huge and heavy.

Chris VK4CVL

Dennis, you forgot the Anthony and Sacagawea dollar coins, the later is still minted.
-Dave

From: "'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:05 PM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Deane Kidd and the Metric System

  About once a week my wife asks me a question which goes something like this:
The recipe calls for 1 teaspoon of xxx per 8oz of yyy, how many ounces of
xxx do I need if I'm making two gallons of yyy?

Our paper currency is metric, but our coinage is a throwback to older times
and it is starting to change as pennies are becoming too worthless to be
bothered with in many cases. As to the rest consider this mess:
* There are five pennies in a nickel
* There are two nickels in a dime
* There are five nickels (or 25 pennies) in a quarter.
* A quarter is a quarter (1/4) of a dollar so there are four in a dollar
* A bit was 1/8th of a dollar so a quarter is also known as "two bits". This
goes back to when the dominant currency was the Spanish dollar (also known
as pieces of eight) which was worth 8 Spanish silver reales. One reale was
one bit.
* A half dollar (a coin most people would rather not have in their pocket
because of its weight) is worth two quarters, four bits, five dimes, ten
nickels, or 50 pennies.
* A dollar is made up of 20 nickels, 10 dimes, 4 quarters, 2 fifty-cent
pieces or any combination that adds up to 100 pennies. Most dollars are
paper but there are silver dollar coins as well although the mint stopped
making them a long time ago so they are more of a collector's item.

Thank goodness we don't have the Looney (the Canadian $2 coin). We do have
the $2 bill but it is not in common usage. It is more a novelty. Some people
believe it is unlucky to receive one.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:13 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Deane Kidd and the Metric System

Subject: [TekScopes] Deane Kidd and the Metric System

Metrification would have been a nightmare for Deane had it survived.
I'm sure Deane breathed a

sigh

of relief when the metrification of the US fizzled shortly after it

started.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

That is a very interesting story Dennis. It must have come as a shock when
you touched Deane's nerve. But oddly you have had metric currency for a
whole lot longer than we have in the UK.

But of course, we in the UK went through the whole metrication process.
However it was more protracted than I remember
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom , which is
why it is a success, and full of imperial hangovers that I mentioned in an
earlier post.

The last metric bastion for me, and this is recently, is navigation by map
and compass. I used to estimate in miles distance and feet of elevation
gained. Then someone who I respect said "What on earth are you doing that
for? Ordnance Survey maps are divided into kilometre squares, and the
contours are in either 5 or 10 metre intervals". Ding - the light went on.

Craig

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 11:50:25 -0000, you wrote:

Half dollars, quarters, and nickels divide dollars into halves, quarters, and twentieths.

Posted by: David <@DWH>

Well yes, but you have 100 pennies to the dollar, same as us to the pound. But we have other coins
too. The 2p(fiftieth), 5p (twentieth), 10p(tenth) 20p(fifth) and 50p(half) and £2(twice). There was
at one stage a 25p coin too (quarter). That doesn't make either you or us non-decimal for currency.
We just divide our decimal base currency whether US dollars or pounds sterling into convenient
chunks.

...

Even for those like me who were brought up with that system until age 15, it was complete madness.
Doing mental arithmetic with it was a nightmare.

Craig

The part I like is that when dimes, quarters, half dollars, and dollar
coins were silver, they all had a weight proportional to their value
so they could simply be weighed instead of counted.

This does not work anymore because dimes come in two different
weights.

Hi,
I think Matt Parker summarizes it well :-)  Are Imperial Measurements outdated? | Number Hub with Matt Parker | Head Squeeze


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Are Imperial Measurements outdated? | Number Hub with Matt Parker | Head...

In response to feedback from our awesome subscribers we asked Matt Parker to give us his guide to imperial measu...
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Szabolcs

The UK still mints several unusual coins which - importantly - can
be used in supermarkets. They are quite popular for several
reasons:
- since they are "coins of the realm", it would be difficult
for the exchequer to levy capital gains tax
- their gold street value is a hedge against market
instabilities
- they are rare and pretty


The sovereign, with a face value of �1. It is 7.98805g and
contains 7.322381g of gold (22carat). There are 1/2 and 1/4
sovereign variants.

The britannia, with a face value of �100. Until 2012 they
were 31.104g and contained 34.050g of gold (22 carat).
Now they are 24 carat. They have 5, 1/4, 1/10, 1/20 variants.

Right up until the hand-over in 1999, we had
HK$00.01 notes (1 cent) in Hong Kong. They were
printed on one side only, because the printing
costs exceeded the value of the note. They were
not used in general transactions, but were there
for accounting purposes, when settlement of
transactions had to be exact to the cent.