Topics

P6015A HV probe

Colin Herbert
 

Hi,
I am wondering if it is possible to purchase the silicone-based dielectric fluid filling for the above probe. The "A" designation uses silicone-based fluid, not the unavailable Freon. A source in the UK would be favourable, as I live in London, UK.
Any help appreciated.
TIA, Colin.

Chuck Harris
 

The silicone based fluid required a complete redesign of
the probe, as it has a different dielectric constant.

The freon is available, and in an unbroken probe lasts many
years. Mine was filled 10 years ago, and is still full.

-Chuck Harris

colingherbert@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Hi,
I am wondering if it is possible to purchase the silicone-based dielectric fluid filling for the above probe. The "A" designation uses silicone-based fluid, not the unavailable Freon. A source in the UK would be favourable, as I live in London, UK.
Any help appreciated.
TIA, Colin.

Miguel Work
 

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: miércoles, 8 de noviembre de 2017 20:04
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



Hi,
I am wondering if it is possible to purchase the silicone-based dielectric fluid filling for the above probe. The "A" designation uses silicone-based fluid, not the unavailable Freon. A source in the UK would be favourable, as I live in London, UK.
Any help appreciated.
TIA, Colin.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Colin Herbert
 

Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.



From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 08 November 2017 19:39
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe





The silicone based fluid required a complete redesign of
the probe, as it has a different dielectric constant.

The freon is available, and in an unbroken probe lasts many
years. Mine was filled 10 years ago, and is still full.

-Chuck Harris

colingherbert@... [TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,
I am wondering if it is possible to purchase the silicone-based dielectric fluid filling for the above probe. The "A" designation uses silicone-based fluid, not the unavailable Freon. A source in the UK would be favourable, as I live in London, UK.
Any help appreciated.
TIA, Colin.

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114 in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C, and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: mi�rcoles, 8 de noviembre de 2017 20:04
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



Hi,
I am wondering if it is possible to purchase the silicone-based dielectric fluid filling for the
above
probe. The "A" designation uses silicone-based fluid, not the unavailable Freon. A source in the
UK
would be favourable, as I live in London, UK.
Any help appreciated.
TIA, Colin.









------------------------------------
Posted by: Miguel Gullon <harrimansat@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Chuck Harris
 

A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris



'Colin Herbert' colingherbert@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.

Miguel Work
 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de noviembre de 2017 16:01
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris

'Colin Herbert' colingherbert@...<mailto:colingherbert@...> [TekScopes] wrote:

Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.

Colin Herbert
 

From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 15:01
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe





A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.
I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.
It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.
If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.
Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?
I don’t. It is just that I have seen a P6015A for sale at what seems to be a reasonable price (£200 GBP) and I wondered if the dielectric fluid might need replacing or replenishing. From having a look at the manual, it would seem that these probes came with a charge of the silicone dielectric and probably don’t need any replenishment – or have I got it wrong?

Colin.
-

Chuck Harris
'Colin Herbert' colingherbert@... [TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the >Freon. What I am looking for is a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

No - definitely not that - the stuff used to fill the 6015A was more like a liquid with a very specific dielectric constant.

D.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 16:27
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/

Herbert
 

Hi,

if I am not wrong, the P6915A was filled with a silicon oil ???

I have filled my P6015 ( without the A ) with a silicon oil of Wacker
Chemie Powersil Fluid TR50.

The probe needed to be realigned and the bandwirth was shrinking down to
10 MHz, but with a good isolation and less environmental problems.

So... it works !

Jerbert


Am 09.11.2017 16:26, schrieb Miguel Gullon harrimansat@...
[TekScopes]:



http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de noviembre de 2017 16:01
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris

'Colin Herbert'
colingherbert@...<mailto:colingherbert@...>
[TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe
that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use
silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is
a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the
Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.



Herbert
 

Hi,

if I am not wrong, the P6015A was filled with a silicon oil ???

I have filled my P6015 ( without the A ) with a silicon oil of Wacker
Chemie Powersil Fluid TR50.

The probe needed to be realigned and the bandwidth was shrinking down to
10 MHz, but with a good isolation and less environmental problems.

As far as I know, the original fluid for the P6015 ( without A )was
banned ( Freon 114 )and is no longer sold out of legal reasons

So... it works !

Herbert


Am 09.11.2017 16:26, schrieb Miguel Gullon harrimansat@...
[TekScopes]:



http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0494124/



De: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Enviado el: jueves, 9 de noviembre de 2017 16:01
Para: TekScopes@...
Asunto: Re: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe



A bad assumption on my part, stemming from my belief that
the silicone fluid would never need replacing under normal
use.

I shouldn't leak, unless the probe is physically broken, in
which case, the new fluid will leak too.

It doesn't evaporate at ambient pressures.

If you arc over, there is going to be more problems than just
contaminated fluid, I would think.

Why do you need to replace your silicone fluid?

-Chuck Harris

'Colin Herbert'
colingherbert@...<mailto:colingherbert@...>
[TekScopes] wrote:
Hi,

I think I may have confused people with my original post. The probe
that I am concerned with is the P6015A, which was designed to use
silicone-based dielectric fluid, not the Freon. What I am looking for is
a supply of the silicone-based dielectric, not a substitute for the
Freon. As I said, a UK source would be best for me, as I live in London, UK.

Colin.



Mike Santas
 

The P6015 had a liquid freon dielectric. The P6015A has a solid silicon potting, no liquid, performance is subpar. Look at dow corning 734.




Mike


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

stefan_trethan
 

I'm very rarely ashamed to be in this group.
This is one of those times.

ST

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, n2lym@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

Herbert
 

There are environmental ignorants all over the world...
not only D. Trump but a lot more people are in the idea
" after me the flood ".

Those people should use toilet cleaner as mouthwash, over the time this
may solve their problems in brain !!!





Am 09.11.2017 18:36, schrieb Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@...
[TekScopes]:



I'm very rarely ashamed to be in this group.
This is one of those times.

ST

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, n2lym@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

Vince Vielhaber
 

What does this post have to do with a HV probe? Let's keep politics out
of this. You really don't want to get me started!

On the subject of the HV probe, there is a non-A version in the pics that
Walter just posted a link to. Looks to be complete with a can of fluid.

Vince.

There are environmental ignorants all over the world...
not only D. Trump but a lot more people are in the idea
" after me the flood ".

Those people should use toilet cleaner as mouthwash, over the time this
may solve their problems in brain !!!





Am 09.11.2017 18:36, schrieb Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@...
[TekScopes]:


I'm very rarely ashamed to be in this group.
This is one of those times.

ST

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:31 PM, n2lym@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:


PS The environmental fagtards screw everything up!

 

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:34:43 -0000, you wrote:

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114 in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C, and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570

Dave Wise
 

Does it make a difference that it's in gaseous form?

On Nov 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, David @DWH<mailto:@DWH> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:34:43 -0000, you wrote:

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114 in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C, and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...> [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570


------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH<mailto:@DWH>>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Herbert
 

With butane you have to be sure, to load the probe with NO air and by
this with NO oxygen. Else you may have a inflamable mixture, which could
build a real bomb, if arcing happens.



Am 09.11.2017 19:09, schrieb David Wise david_wise@... [TekScopes]:



Does it make a difference that it's in gaseous form?

On Nov 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, David
@DWH<mailto:@DWH> [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 13:34:43 -0000, you wrote:

You know, I have looked long and hard at various replacements for FC114
in recent years, and I had
not considered butane.

But looking at the NIST site for FC114 you get 1.83 atmospheres at 20C,
and with butane you get 2
atmospheres. So similar enough not to lose too much sleep over.

And the dielectric constant of butane gas at 2atm is, not surprisingly
very close to unity 1.0056

I haven't found any data for the gas phase dielectric of FC114, but it
will be likewise very close
to unity.

So, very cautiously, it would appear that butane is a possible
replacement for unobtainium FC114.

Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>
[mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 09 November 2017 10:45
To: TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] P6015A HV probe

Hi, you can use butane.

http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?100570

------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH<mailto:@DWH>>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



 

Sure it makes a difference but it also makes a difference in
dielectric constant between liquid and gaseous form. I deliberately
used the numbers for dielectric strength in gaseous form.

I gather that freon 114 was deliberately used as a gaseous dielectric
by others for the same reason Tektronix used it; boiling below room
temperature allows it to positively displace air in the device and its
low vapor pressure allows simple low pressure construction and the
maintenance of a liquid reserve to maintain positive pressure. Butane
has all of those advantages as well but of course it is flammable but
I do not really consider that a serious problem in this application
where the volume is so low.

The slightly higher vapor pressure of butane over freon 114 should
somewhat make up for its lower dielectric strength if that is a
problem. In any event, it is cheap, readily available, and an
improvement over using nothing. I have been reluctant to purchase one
of the older probes but this changes my mind.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 19:09:26 +0000, you wrote:

Does it make a difference that it's in gaseous form?

On Nov 9, 2017, at 11:06 AM, David @DWH<mailto:@DWH> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:

I never considered butane either. My only concern would be its
dielectric strength. Let's see ...

Freon 114 is 1,2-Dichlorotetrafluoroethane with a dielectric strength
of 2.52 compared to nitrogen. Butane has a dielectric strength of 1.5
or 1.7 compared to nitrogen depending on information source.

The breakdown voltage is further increased over nitrogen because the
freon 114 and butane are used at higher than atmospheric pressure.

 

It would not be that dangerous but it would destroy the probe.

Follow the refilling procedure described in the manual but make sure
to add too much butane and then bleed it off as described to release
any remaining air. Just like with freon 114, some remaining liquid
butane should be visible. Any remaining gas mixture will then be far
outside the explosive limits.

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 19:26:55 +0000, you wrote:

With butane you have to be sure, to load the probe with NO air and by
this with NO oxygen. Else you may have a inflamable mixture, which could
build a real bomb, if arcing happens.