Topics

New member introduction...

Vincent Trouilliez
 

Hi all,

Well... where to start.

Like most of you I assume, I am a hobbyist who likes old CRT scopes and Tek in particular.

I am 39 and live in France. First and last time I subscribed to a mailing-list was 20 years ago.. you chaps suddenly make me feel 20 years younger, and for this alone, I want thank you ! LOL :-)

I understand (?) most of you are in the US, home land of Tek and birth place of the electronics industry really.

As for electronics education, I started with electronics as far as I can remember, from the age of 9 at school, (was born in 1977), in the early '80's then, wiring an LED on a bread board as you do ! :-) Kept fiddling with electronics at home, taking things apart, salvaging tons of parts just because... until the age of 20, in 1998, when I got my French degree in electronics. My "lab" back then was quite rudimentary. Then I moved for 3 years in the UK to try and get an engineering degree, a "BEng" at the University of Hertforshire in Hatfiled, north London. that didn't work out. Nothing to do with technical level though, but more to do with "politics"... and me doing stupid mistakes due to young age, I do regret now, but too late. Anyway, I obviously could not play with electronics in my student room, not that the gear would have fitted in my car anyway. I managed to pack my desktop computer and 17" CRT and large laser printer, and a table, but that was already a challenge... we don't drive huge pick-up trucks over here in western Europe ! ;-)

So, 3 years later I come back to France, with no engineering degree so can't work in R&D/design which is all I am interested in really. So basically I never could work in the electronics industry, and I eventually gave up and moved on after nearly 10 years of depressing...

I trained for a year in another field I like, aeronautics. So I learned how to repair an airframe. Assessing the damage, cutting-out what needs to be taken off, crafting new custom parts by hand, and handing over a plane that can actually safely fly again. That was 5 years ago. 5 years on, the need for electronics, which has never faded at all, eventually led me to building myself a new lab, after 20 years of void. mid-life crisis told me that it was now about time to allow myself to do the things I really like. Built the thing last fall, and throughout last winter, I spent all my evenings on Ebay and the local ad site, searching for cool old gear I like, to populate the workbench... it's so wonderful to now be able to buy top quality professionnal gear that 20 years earlier I could only dream about !
Still some way to go to be fully operational/productive, but It's now getting to the point of actually starting to be useful, so I have started fiddling with electronics again, a little here, a little there...

But so far, most of my time is spent taking apart all the old test gear I buy, so I can clean them thoroughly, refurbish or fix the little things that need to, here and there, and generally see how its put together so I can satisfy my curiosity and learn some thing from it.

As for scopes, I love old CRT scopes, especially Tektronix, though other majors brands made some stuff I also like and will try to acquire at some point. I have :

- an old analog scope, a German Hameg "HM604" (2x60MHz).

My first scope, courtesy of my dad 25 years ago when I was still at school. Works like a charm, weil put together, love it.

Then 4 years ago I came across EEVBLOG, the guy somehow revived my love for electronics and motivated me to get my act together and start fiddling with electronics again. He also made somehow look it was actually possible for a humble human being like me, to trouble shoot fancy complex/professional test gear. He also somehow made me believe that it was actually possible to solder SMD parts without multi-million dollar gear. So, this led me to buying my second scope :

- A Tek TDS 360 (2x50MHz, digital). At school in 1996 or 97, I remember our teacher in applied physics, unpacking a brand new TDS3XX (320 I think it was), I was impressed and joyful every time I would see it on the bench. I remember he said it cost 50,000 (French Francs back then, no Euro currency at the time), which was the price of a small car brand new !
so, when I spotted that cheap/non-functional TDS360 for sale, it reminded me of that ! I could not resist, bought it, thinking what the hell... cheap so not much to lose ! Best case scenario I manage to fix it and I would have a "modern" digital scope on top of my old analog Hameg, and it I can't fix it well, at least I would have had some fun trying to troubleshoot it, and would have leaned stuff along the way. So either way I would win, from my point of view. Sadly I still have not fixed the thing ! LOL
Tried a bit when I got it, no luck. Then left it alone for 3 years, and now that I have my lab, I dug it out and worked some more on it. it's a bitch to fix, still working on it, so I bought the TDS 544A instead, much better... Obviously I still want to fix the TDS 360, just for the "fun" of it. Problem appears to be isolated to the front panel... connected to the main CPU board via a serial port/UART. Experiments show that the front panel is receiving and processing orders just fine from the main board, but it fails to report back any action I make on any button. No matter what I probe on this front panel (local CPU scanning the buttons, or data going out on the TxD), everything says "it works".. but still, the scope does not react at all whatever button I press or turn on the front panel, it's deaf... but I will get there eventually, why shouldn't I...
Maybe the RxD trace on the main CPU board is somehow broken... unlikely I know, but it really behaves like it ! Front panel sending stuff over the serial line, but the scope not reacting in any way shape or form ! LOL :-/


- A Tek from the early '90s, a TDS 544A (4x500MHz, digital)

Love the TDS3XX since I discovered them at school, but later I found out about the higher end 500/600/700 series... god I was in love ! LOL Such high-tech gear, such performance, with so many features/functionality, and well.. I justs love the way they look, how "technical"'/rational is that ! ;-)
After searching a bit, I decided my dream would be a TDS 784D. but, unlike some video on youtube where the guy pretended they could be had for 500 buck/USD.. in my neck of the woods they are very rare and even un-tested/troublesome units sell for the equivalent of 3000 to 6000 USD, 2000 at the very least, rarely, but still no guarantee whatsoever that it works, so quite an expensive gamble ! Not in my price range anyway.

So, I noticed the 500X series were easier to find and usually cheaper, so still in the order of 1000 Euros.

9 months ago I eventually came across that TDS 544A. Ad looks great. For a change, seller looked like he knew was he was talking about, actually a professional electronic repair technician, and was happy to discuss with me about the scope. Price was only 500 Euros. He got from the army, POST reported many errors as always, Acquisition blah blah blah... he fixed all that, and recapped the thing entirely, with uprated parts, don't remember the specifics. So I could not resist, a nice TDS 544A, color, with the 50K memory upgrade, all the interfaces you could dream about at the back, fully tested and recapped/reliable... it was just by a long, long shot, the best deal I had come across after months of daily search. Actually 9 months later, I still have not found any other deal that good. So I am really super happy I came across that one, and I just love it.


- A Tek from the '80s : a 2232 (2x100 "hybrid" analog + digital)

That being said, although I like having the TDS544A for "when you need it"... it's noisy and takes 60seconds to start and draws a lot of power/expensive electricity-wise. So I was looking for a trade off between my old analog Hameg, and the TDS 544A "beast". I wanted one of those "hybrid" scopes from the '80's, the bridge between old analog scopes, and the soon to come advent of the full blown digital scope like the TDS series.
The Tek 2232 seemed like the best model in this regard. It offered a nice analog scope (2x100MHz, dual time base, full featured triggering options, on screen read-out, automatic probe detection, GPIB interface, XY plotter interface....) and at the same time the possibility to switch to storage mode for when it's actually useful. In my case, I find it useful when looking at very slow signals where analog scopes are a a pain, and also to catch non-repetitive signals obviously, like catching switch bounces, a power supply powering up, whatever. Obviously the sampling rate/overall performance of the digital board is pathetic, but for the aforementioned use cases, ie "slow" stuff, it's perfectly suited.
And it's fast to start and less noisy and less power hungry than the TDS 544A. So, at least in my case, the Tek 2232 is an ideal general scope, it's my main scope. The TDS544A I fire up when its performance or feature set is of value.

The only thing that annoys me in the Tek 2232, is the fact that cursor measurements only work in storage mode, which is inconvenient because the performance in storage mode does not allow to play at high frequencies, whereas in analog only mode, it's capable of 100MHz ! So it's quite frustrating.
Even more so considering that, I gathered, some purely analog scope in the 22xx serie DO have cursor measurements available ! So.. why is it the 2232 can't do it in analog mode ?! Grrr....
But apart from that, I just love my 2232.


- A Tek from the '70s : a rack mount 5111.

Not that actually use in practice, but I wanted to have an older Tek ! TDSif from the early '90's, fully digital era. Teh 2232 is from the '80s, halfway between analog and digital. I wanted to have a model from the 70's to add to my little museum so to speak. I quite like the rack and plug-in systems of that era, wanted one of those. Eventually came across a Tek 5111, knew nothing about it performance wise, but I just loved the way it looked, was in great nick, fairly price, and was the rack mount form factor I love, not the vertical/stacked/portable form factor which I find not so good looking (so more practical of course). It looked cool with its two x4 channels plugins, 8 channels wow... and this "memory" feature, on an old 70's scope, I was intrigued, I was sold, bought it. Later I realized it was limited to 2MHz and the vertical amplifiers were actually only 1MHz, so indeed I could not do much with it. But still, since I am not into high speed modern digital stuff at all, even 1MHz coudl be usefull. 8 channels could be nice to probe many signals of a cirdcuit at once, can be handy.
Also, with this nice plug-in design, I can get buy other cool plug-ins to extend the performance of features/capability of the scope. For example I noticed find for this scope, dual time base plug-ins, a fancy curve tracer, or even a differential amplifier... THAT is gold, a true diff input for a few buck, whereas other wise an active diff probe costs a real fortune ! Sure, BW would be 2MHz tops at best, but again I am not into fast stuff so could still be useful to probe around gear I am trying to fix, without the need to use an isolation transformer.
So really, even that very humble 5111 makes me real happy, glad I bought it, and will definitely in the future get some plug-ins to accompany him.
Then later I found out about the 7 series, still rack/plugins design but with much greater bandwidth, so more useful. But I don't find them as good looking, and they are much more expensive for what benefit, as I have the TDS544A for performance stuff when required.
So, really I love my 3 Tek scopes, each from different era, each their own charm, each their purpose in the lab. I love them all.

To add to my "collection", some day I would like an older model, from the '60s. One with a round CRT and a valve/tube design. Don't know much about valves, but came across a nice channel on youtube, "Mr Carlson's lab", that chap loves all tube test gear, I am learning a lot of practical stuff with him, I am less in the dark.



So this is it, that was my presentation... any question just ask ! LOL

Obviously I am not here just to say hello ! Other the TDS360 I am working on, on and off (pun intended), my real problem at the moment is my beloved Tek 2232 from which the magic smoke escaped all of a sudden, just a week ago ! :-/
Not having any serious troubleshooting/repairing experience/skills, other than the TD360, I was feeling rather depressed to be honest with you ! :-/ Asked for help on EEVBlog as it was the only place I knew, they helped really a lot and am getting there, but they kindly pointed me to your specialized Tek group full of experts, some of you being on EEVBlog as I understand it, so hi to you if are reading this ! ;-)

I will therefore post a new thread about my 2232 issues, shortly...

Yes.... I promise I will work on being more concise in the future... here I allowed myself to let loose, because it was a presentation, not a technical discussion ;-) But it has to be said, I do admit it, that I am not exactly of the 144 char/Tweeter "generation"/mindset... that is for sure.

Anyway, I hope you will forgive any typo or weirdness/oddities in my messages, given that I am hardly a native English speaker. French people historically suck at English, it's a fact of life. Sure I spent 3 years in the UK but still, I am not exactly a quick learner so there is still much left to be desired ! :-/


Have a good week-end all ! :-)



Regards,


--
Vince the Frog (well, I guess there must be a few more Frogs on here, salut les gars...)

Fabio Trevisan
 

Welcome Vince,

As someone who's not a native English speaker as well (I`m Brazilian) and
being someone who knows quite well how fluent in English the French folks
usually are (no offense intended), I must say that your English is great.

I work for 18 years for KLM and since we have been bought by Air France
more than 10 years ago, I deal on a day-to-day basis with English speaking
French colleagues and managers and there haven't been too many in those
last 10 years that I can say writes in English as well as you do (and we
had quite a good sample from your first message :-) don't we?).
Remarkable if you only lived for 3 years in England!

By the way, you said you're on Aircraft maintenance business... I can't
refrain from asking... Do you work for Air France?
I happen to have some familiarity with AC maintenance as well. My (older)
brother used to be an AC maintenance engineer back in the eighties (for
Varig, the defunct Brazilian Airline) and my brother-in-law is an AC
maintenance engineer himself to day (in Air Canada).

Regarding your loooong message... I cannot speak for the others but, from
my side at least, consider yourself excused.
I share with you the feeling for Twitter... 144 characters is just too
short to be of any value! (I suppose it's just fair that I`m the first one
to reply to you).

As for your collection, for someone who's (only) 39 and not working
directly on the electronics / R&D or Repair / business, you have quite an
impressive assortment!
I wish I could say the same. I'm 53 and only one year ago I managed to get
my first Tek...this stuff is hard to get by in Brazil and when they show
up, it's always expensive.

Having welcomed you well enough, I remain telling you that I`m a novice in
Tek maintenance / restoration so, I am myself more of a reader than a
contributor on this message board, but you surely got to the place where
the most knowledgeable people are (not just in Tek gear, but in many areas,
as you will learn if you start following the threads).

I look forward seeing your questions about the issues on your equipment.

Rgrds,

Fabio Trevisan




2017-06-17 19:20 GMT-03:00 vincent.trouilliez@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:



Hi all,

Well... where to start.

Like most of you I assume, I am a hobbyist who likes old CRT scopes and
Tek in particular.

I am 39 and live in France. First and last time I subscribed to a
mailing-list was 20 years ago.. you chaps suddenly make me feel 20 years
younger, and for this alone, I want thank you ! LOL :-)

I understand (?) most of you are in the US, home land of Tek and birth
place of the electronics industry really.

As for electronics education, I started with electronics as far as I can
remember, from the age of 9 at school, (was born in 1977), in the early
'80's then, wiring an LED on a bread board as you do ! :-) Kept fiddling
with electronics at home, taking things apart, salvaging tons of parts just
because... until the age of 20, in 1998, when I got my French degree in
electronics. My "lab" back then was quite rudimentary. Then I moved for 3
years in the UK to try and get an engineering degree, a "BEng" at the
University of Hertforshire in Hatfiled, north London. that didn't work out.
Nothing to do with technical level though, but more to do with
"politics"... and me doing stupid mistakes due to young age, I do regret
now, but too late. Anyway, I obviously could not play with electronics in
my student room, not that the gear would have fitted in my car anyway. I
managed to pack my desktop computer and 17" CRT and large laser printer,
and a table, but that was already a challenge... we don't drive huge
pick-up trucks over here in western Europe ! ;-)

So, 3 years later I come back to France, with no engineering degree so
can't work in R&D/design which is all I am interested in really. So
basically I never could work in the electronics industry, and I eventually
gave up and moved on after nearly 10 years of depressing...

I trained for a year in another field I like, aeronautics. So I learned
how to repair an airframe. Assessing the damage, cutting-out what needs to
be taken off, crafting new custom parts by hand, and handing over a plane
that can actually safely fly again. That was 5 years ago. 5 years on, the
need for electronics, which has never faded at all, eventually led me to
building myself a new lab, after 20 years of void. mid-life crisis told me
that it was now about time to allow myself to do the things I really like.
Built the thing last fall, and throughout last winter, I spent all my
evenings on Ebay and the local ad site, searching for cool old gear I like,
to populate the workbench... it's so wonderful to now be able to buy top
quality professionnal gear that 20 years earlier I could only dream about !
Still some way to go to be fully operational/productive, but It's now
getting to the point of actually starting to be useful, so I have started
fiddling with electronics again, a little here, a little there...

But so far, most of my time is spent taking apart all the old test gear I
buy, so I can clean them thoroughly, refurbish or fix the little things
that need to, here and there, and generally see how its put together so I
can satisfy my curiosity and learn some thing from it.

As for scopes, I love old CRT scopes, especially Tektronix, though other
majors brands made some stuff I also like and will try to acquire at some
point. I have :

- an old analog scope, a German Hameg "HM604" (2x60MHz).

My first scope, courtesy of my dad 25 years ago when I was still at
school. Works like a charm, weil put together, love it.

Then 4 years ago I came across EEVBLOG, the guy somehow revived my love
for electronics and motivated me to get my act together and start fiddling
with electronics again. He also made somehow look it was actually possible
for a humble human being like me, to trouble shoot fancy
complex/professional test gear. He also somehow made me believe that it was
actually possible to solder SMD parts without multi-million dollar gear.
So, this led me to buying my second scope :

- A Tek TDS 360 (2x50MHz, digital). At school in 1996 or 97, I remember
our teacher in applied physics, unpacking a brand new TDS3XX (320 I think
it was), I was impressed and joyful every time I would see it on the bench.
I remember he said it cost 50,000 (French Francs back then, no Euro
currency at the time), which was the price of a small car brand new !
so, when I spotted that cheap/non-functional TDS360 for sale, it reminded
me of that ! I could not resist, bought it, thinking what the hell... cheap
so not much to lose ! Best case scenario I manage to fix it and I would
have a "modern" digital scope on top of my old analog Hameg, and it I can't
fix it well, at least I would have had some fun trying to troubleshoot it,
and would have leaned stuff along the way. So either way I would win, from
my point of view. Sadly I still have not fixed the thing ! LOL
Tried a bit when I got it, no luck. Then left it alone for 3 years, and
now that I have my lab, I dug it out and worked some more on it. it's a
bitch to fix, still working on it, so I bought the TDS 544A instead, much
better... Obviously I still want to fix the TDS 360, just for the "fun" of
it. Problem appears to be isolated to the front panel... connected to the
main CPU board via a serial port/UART. Experiments show that the front
panel is receiving and processing orders just fine from the main board, but
it fails to report back any action I make on any button. No matter what I
probe on this front panel (local CPU scanning the buttons, or data going
out on the TxD), everything says "it works".. but still, the scope does not
react at all whatever button I press or turn on the front panel, it's
deaf... but I will get there eventually, why shouldn't I...
Maybe the RxD trace on the main CPU board is somehow broken... unlikely I
know, but it really behaves like it ! Front panel sending stuff over the
serial line, but the scope not reacting in any way shape or form ! LOL :-/


- A Tek from the early '90s, a TDS 544A (4x500MHz, digital)

Love the TDS3XX since I discovered them at school, but later I found out
about the higher end 500/600/700 series... god I was in love ! LOL Such
high-tech gear, such performance, with so many features/functionality, and
well.. I justs love the way they look, how "technical"'/rational is that !
;-)
After searching a bit, I decided my dream would be a TDS 784D. but, unlike
some video on youtube where the guy pretended they could be had for 500
buck/USD.. in my neck of the woods they are very rare and even
un-tested/troublesome units sell for the equivalent of 3000 to 6000 USD,
2000 at the very least, rarely, but still no guarantee whatsoever that it
works, so quite an expensive gamble ! Not in my price range anyway.

So, I noticed the 500X series were easier to find and usually cheaper, so
still in the order of 1000 Euros.

9 months ago I eventually came across that TDS 544A. Ad looks great. For a
change, seller looked like he knew was he was talking about, actually a
professional electronic repair technician, and was happy to discuss with me
about the scope. Price was only 500 Euros. He got from the army, POST
reported many errors as always, Acquisition blah blah blah... he fixed all
that, and recapped the thing entirely, with uprated parts, don't remember
the specifics. So I could not resist, a nice TDS 544A, color, with the 50K
memory upgrade, all the interfaces you could dream about at the back, fully
tested and recapped/reliable... it was just by a long, long shot, the best
deal I had come across after months of daily search. Actually 9 months
later, I still have not found any other deal that good. So I am really
super happy I came across that one, and I just love it.


- A Tek from the '80s : a 2232 (2x100 "hybrid" analog + digital)

That being said, although I like having the TDS544A for "when you need
it"... it's noisy and takes 60seconds to start and draws a lot of
power/expensive electricity-wise. So I was looking for a trade off between
my old analog Hameg, and the TDS 544A "beast". I wanted one of those
"hybrid" scopes from the '80's, the bridge between old analog scopes, and
the soon to come advent of the full blown digital scope like the TDS
series.
The Tek 2232 seemed like the best model in this regard. It offered a nice
analog scope (2x100MHz, dual time base, full featured triggering options,
on screen read-out, automatic probe detection, GPIB interface, XY plotter
interface....) and at the same time the possibility to switch to storage
mode for when it's actually useful. In my case, I find it useful when
looking at very slow signals where analog scopes are a a pain, and also to
catch non-repetitive signals obviously, like catching switch bounces, a
power supply powering up, whatever. Obviously the sampling rate/overall
performance of the digital board is pathetic, but for the aforementioned
use cases, ie "slow" stuff, it's perfectly suited.
And it's fast to start and less noisy and less power hungry than the TDS
544A. So, at least in my case, the Tek 2232 is an ideal general scope, it's
my main scope. The TDS544A I fire up when its performance or feature set is
of value.

The only thing that annoys me in the Tek 2232, is the fact that cursor
measurements only work in storage mode, which is inconvenient because the
performance in storage mode does not allow to play at high frequencies,
whereas in analog only mode, it's capable of 100MHz ! So it's quite
frustrating.
Even more so considering that, I gathered, some purely analog scope in the
22xx serie DO have cursor measurements available ! So.. why is it the 2232
can't do it in analog mode ?! Grrr....
But apart from that, I just love my 2232.


- A Tek from the '70s : a rack mount 5111.

Not that actually use in practice, but I wanted to have an older Tek !
TDSif from the early '90's, fully digital era. Teh 2232 is from the '80s,
halfway between analog and digital. I wanted to have a model from the 70's
to add to my little museum so to speak. I quite like the rack and plug-in
systems of that era, wanted one of those. Eventually came across a Tek
5111, knew nothing about it performance wise, but I just loved the way it
looked, was in great nick, fairly price, and was the rack mount form factor
I love, not the vertical/stacked/portable form factor which I find not so
good looking (so more practical of course). It looked cool with its two x4
channels plugins, 8 channels wow... and this "memory" feature, on an old
70's scope, I was intrigued, I was sold, bought it. Later I realized it was
limited to 2MHz and the vertical amplifiers were actually only 1MHz, so
indeed I could not do much with it. But still, since I am not into high
speed modern digital stuff at all, even 1MHz coudl be usefull. 8 channels
could be nice to probe many signals of a cirdcuit at once, can be handy.
Also, with this nice plug-in design, I can get buy other cool plug-ins to
extend the performance of features/capability of the scope. For example I
noticed find for this scope, dual time base plug-ins, a fancy curve tracer,
or even a differential amplifier... THAT is gold, a true diff input for a
few buck, whereas other wise an active diff probe costs a real fortune !
Sure, BW would be 2MHz tops at best, but again I am not into fast stuff so
could still be useful to probe around gear I am trying to fix, without the
need to use an isolation transformer.
So really, even that very humble 5111 makes me real happy, glad I bought
it, and will definitely in the future get some plug-ins to accompany him.
Then later I found out about the 7 series, still rack/plugins design but
with much greater bandwidth, so more useful. But I don't find them as good
looking, and they are much more expensive for what benefit, as I have the
TDS544A for performance stuff when required.
So, really I love my 3 Tek scopes, each from different era, each their own
charm, each their purpose in the lab. I love them all.

To add to my "collection", some day I would like an older model, from the
'60s. One with a round CRT and a valve/tube design. Don't know much about
valves, but came across a nice channel on youtube, "Mr Carlson's lab", that
chap loves all tube test gear, I am learning a lot of practical stuff with
him, I am less in the dark.



So this is it, that was my presentation... any question just ask ! LOL

Obviously I am not here just to say hello ! Other the TDS360 I am working
on, on and off (pun intended), my real problem at the moment is my beloved
Tek 2232 from which the magic smoke escaped all of a sudden, just a week
ago ! :-/
Not having any serious troubleshooting/repairing experience/skills, other
than the TD360, I was feeling rather depressed to be honest with you ! :-/
Asked for help on EEVBlog as it was the only place I knew, they helped
really a lot and am getting there, but they kindly pointed me to your
specialized Tek group full of experts, some of you being on EEVBlog as I
understand it, so hi to you if are reading this ! ;-)

I will therefore post a new thread about my 2232 issues, shortly...

Yes.... I promise I will work on being more concise in the future... here
I allowed myself to let loose, because it was a presentation, not a
technical discussion ;-) But it has to be said, I do admit it, that I am
not exactly of the 144 char/Tweeter "generation"/mindset... that is for
sure.

Anyway, I hope you will forgive any typo or weirdness/oddities in my
messages, given that I am hardly a native English speaker. French people
historically suck at English, it's a fact of life. Sure I spent 3 years in
the UK but still, I am not exactly a quick learner so there is still much
left to be desired ! :-/


Have a good week-end all ! :-)



Regards,


--
Vince the Frog (well, I guess there must be a few more Frogs on here,
salut les gars...)

Siggi
 

Hey Vincent,

welcome to the group, I think you'll be fine here.
I'm a fellow addict, my wife bought me 2465 a while back. It was very
slightly broken, but fixing it lit my bug - the service manuals are like a
master class in analog engineering. I'm now at 2*7834 (one still has PSU
problems), 485 (oooh, what a beauty!), a 2465, 2467 (oooh!), 2340, TDS684A
(broken, probably not fixable), and a TDS784D. All bought in various state
of disrepair for the pleasure of repairing them.

Siggi

On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 at 18:20 vincent.trouilliez@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:



Hi all,

Well... where to start.

Vincent Trouilliez
 

Hi Fabio,



>By the way, you said you're on Aircraft maintenance business... I can't
refrain from asking... Do you work for Air France?
Nope.. I don't work in maintenance, sadly.. I was TRAINED for that.. but I found out that MRO companies do'nt waste time/money on newbies like me... they hire only seasoned people...
A week before passing my final exam, I got recruited by a company that does Quality Control. So that's what I have been doing for the past 5 years. I work at a major Airbus site (in Saint-Nazaire), mostly on the new airbus programe, thee A350 XWB (carbon plane, competition for the Boeing 787 "Dreamliner").
I also worked for 6 month on the A400M, the new military Aircraft, supposed to free Europe from buying american C130... but it's doesn't quite work so we keep buying C130 until the A400M finally can be made to work...

Hell I DID work in maintenance... for 3 weeks only, as part of our one year training program we had to do a 3 week mini-placement. I love helicopters, especially off-shore/oil and Gas, and luckily I managed to be accepted at "Heli-Union", a French company that's one of the world wide leaders in oil and gas heli transportation. In northern America the equivalent would be the famous 'CHC'. Inthe UK 'Bristow'. In Belgium 'NHV' is very young in this market but with great ambitions and growing fast

http://www.heli-union.com/ http://www.heli-union.com/

My 3 weeks there were very intense, I loved every minute of it. I got the chance to work mostly on one of my favorite heli, the military version of the "Dauphin"/Dolphin Helicopter (from Aérospatiale/Eurocopter/ Now "Airbus Helicopter."). That heli is quite well know in the USA too, as we sold quite a few there, for coast guard/search and rescue missions, known there/rebadged as the " HH 65"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmVwzNfVj9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmVwzNfVj9g


As for your collection, for someone who's (only) 39 and not working
>directly on the electronics / R&D or Repair / business, you have quite an
> impressive assortment!

They are old and not very expensive (compared to what the equivalent would cost new...)


>I wish I could say the same. I'm 53 and only one year ago I managed to get
my first Tek...this stuff is hard to get by in Brazil and when they show
>up, it's always expensive.

Brazil is much closer to the US than I am... shipping should be more reasonable I would think ? Can't you just buy stuff on-line on Ebay USA and get it shipped to your country ??


Just realized... in my first message, replace "TDS 360" with "TDS 310" , I got mixed up ! Yeah I admit, I don't know my TDS3XX family tree by heart just yet... I wish it were a 360 though, 310 is only 200MS/s, 360 has 1GS/s it appears, and a floppy drive to boot (pun intended..). But who cares, now that I have the 544A.


--
Vince

Vincent Trouilliez
 

Hi Siggy,


the service manuals are like a master class in analog engineering.
Yeah I love these old comprehensive manuals, so much to learn from them. I am still watching at the schematics of the pre-regulator of my 2232 scope in bed at night, while trying to find sleep. I am trying to figure out exactly how the "start-up"/boot-strap mechanism works exactly... am getting there but slowly, but not 100% clear just yet.... :-/
Having the GROUND power pin of the PWM chip, connected to the 40V OUTPUT rail of the regulator, is a bit disconcerting at first...


I'm now at 2*7834 (one still has PSUproblems), 485 (oooh, what a beauty!),
a 2465, 2467 (oooh!), 2340, TDS684A (broken, probably not fixable),
Well not bad ! :-)

and a TDS784D.
Oh, my dream TDS, I want it ! LOL :-))))

All bought in various state of disrepair for the pleasure of repairing them.
Yep, I am finding it more and more fun to troubleshoot stuff. My 2232 however puts me under some pressure though, because unlike all the other gear I am trying to fix, this scope is my main scope, so I really would like / need to fix it ASAP. Almost there though... maybe I won't even need to post about it here in the end, but will anyway.. a short thread just to describe what I did... might still help other newbies like me.


Vince

Fabio Trevisan
 

Hey Vince,

Nice curriculum! I love aircrafts in general and Helicopters are indeed a
fascinating thing (with the rotational collective control... that's an
ingenious idea!).
Nice to know about the A350... It was about time for Airbus to come up with
something!

Just answering you about the "relative" closeness of Brazil to the US...
Indeed, would it be just the distance I'd say I'd be a happy man.

But Brazil, since I was young has been a country that raised or sustained A
LOT of importation barriers, banning or heavily taxing the importation of
pretty much everything that is or could be manufactured in Brazil, with the
excuse of protecting the Brazilian manufacturers and allow our "wannabe"
hi-tech industry to flourish (Bah... bulls...t!).
Any semi-educated Brazilian know, however, that this market protection only
served 3 purposes.
1, Make Customs officers rich (who would get bribes to look to the other
side when smugglers were passing, but smugglers were more interested in
consumer electronics, not scopes).
2. To make some Brazilian industry big shots richer, allowing them to
manufacture lousy stuff and sell them for absurd prices, without risk of
competition.
3. Ultimately, to prevent Brazilian entrepreneurs and scientists from
having access to 1st grade R&D lab equipment, which eventually condemned 3
generation of technology students of all kinds to change profession or to
be workforce to multi-national industries which eventually had some branch
here, to do mostly unintelligent work (after all, multi-national R&D is
always at the headquarters).

In the nineties, a progressive president (who was, granted, a crook, and
was impeached) eventually withdrawn most of the importation bans, allowing
stuff to be at least imported legally... But with such high importation
duties that it remained prohibitive to buy imported stuff.
Once again, well established industrial big shots took advantage of the -
now legal - importation, and fired their manufacturing employees and
started buying everything from China. even with high importation duties, it
was still cheaper than paying the local worker (and no hassle... who wants
to deal with a worker, with all his rights?).
I was caught by that wave in 1991. The computer manufacturer I worked for,
started importing motherboards from Taiwan and sliced 90% of their
workplaces.

Add to this the rate of exchange, of about 3.3 BRL : 1 USD and you have an
ugly picture.

If I want to buy, say, a 60 bucks UNI-T multimeter from e-bay or even from
AliExpress, it will knock my door at roughly R$ 500,00.

So, all the Hi-tek equipment from the 70s, 80s and 90s, that could be
affordable nowadays to the hobbyist, are very rare (because they didn't
make it to Brazil back at the time) and whoever have them, still sell it
for big money (or they ask for big money without ever selling it, I don't
understand!)...

Regards,

Fabio


2017-06-20 17:01 GMT-03:00 vincent.trouilliez@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...>:



Hi Fabio,



By the way, you said you're on Aircraft maintenance business... I can't
refrain from asking... Do you work for Air France?
Nope.. I don't work in maintenance, sadly.. I was TRAINED for that.. but I
found out that MRO companies do'nt waste time/money on newbies like me...
they hire only seasoned people...
A week before passing my final exam, I got recruited by a company that
does Quality Control. So that's what I have been doing for the past 5
years. I work at a major Airbus site (in Saint-Nazaire), mostly on the new
airbus programe, thee A350 XWB (carbon plane, competition for the Boeing
787 "Dreamliner").
I also worked for 6 month on the A400M, the new military Aircraft,
supposed to free Europe from buying american C130... but it's doesn't quite
work so we keep buying C130 until the A400M finally can be made to work...

Hell I DID work in maintenance... for 3 weeks only, as part of our one
year training program we had to do a 3 week mini-placement. I love
helicopters, especially off-shore/oil and Gas, and luckily I managed to be
accepted at "Heli-Union", a French company that's one of the world wide
leaders in oil and gas heli transportation. In northern America the
equivalent would be the famous 'CHC'. Inthe UK 'Bristow'. In Belgium 'NHV'
is very young in this market but with great ambitions and growing fast

http://www.heli-union.com/ http://www.heli-union.com/

My 3 weeks there were very intense, I loved every minute of it. I got the
chance to work mostly on one of my favorite heli, the military version of
the "Dauphin"/Dolphin Helicopter (from Aérospatiale/Eurocopter/ Now "Airbus
Helicopter."). That heli is quite well know in the USA too, as we sold
quite a few there, for coast guard/search and rescue missions, known
there/rebadged as the " HH 65"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmVwzNfVj9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=mmVwzNfVj9g


As for your collection, for someone who's (only) 39 and not working
directly on the electronics / R&D or Repair / business, you have quite an
impressive assortment!
They are old and not very expensive (compared to what the equivalent would
cost new...)


I wish I could say the same. I'm 53 and only one year ago I managed to
get
my first Tek...this stuff is hard to get by in Brazil and when they show
up, it's always expensive.
Brazil is much closer to the US than I am... shipping should be more
reasonable I would think ? Can't you just buy stuff on-line on Ebay USA and
get it shipped to your country ??


Just realized... in my first message, replace "TDS 360" with "TDS 310" , I
got mixed up ! Yeah I admit, I don't know my TDS3XX family tree by heart
just yet... I wish it were a 360 though, 310 is only 200MS/s, 360 has 1GS/s
it appears, and a floppy drive to boot (pun intended..). But who cares, now
that I have the 544A.


--
Vince


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vincent Trouilliez
 

---In TekScopes@..., <fabio.tr3visan@...> wrote :
> Just answering you about the "relative" closeness of Brazil to the US...
> Indeed, would it be just the distance I'd say I'd be a happy man.

Wow.... thanks for the briefing, quite enlightening indeed !
Didn't think that Brazil was THIS bad !

Well I am really sorry to hear that you have to put up with that much crap every day ! :-/

You really must be motivated/passionate about electronics then, no doubt... glad you managed to finally get a scope, you sure deserve it !

Here is crossing fingers that the situation in Brazil improves... some day.... the sooner the better... be strong Fabio... :-/


Regards,


Vince

 

Hello Vincent,

So, you finally made it here...
I'm pleased to hear the TDS544A is well. (Have you found a replacement LCD
shutter yet?)

I posted here when I was repairing the TDS you have and the TDS540 that I
picked up at the same time. Siggi joined in on the subject IIRC.
I sold the TDS540 last summer to a guy in Perigueux who had built his own
airplane and needed a DSO to debug the onboard equipment.
(I have been thinning-down the pack a little, slowly, but then it is hard
to resist buying other scopes...! I fell for a 2230 for 40€)

This really is the place to be for Tek equipment but you may also be
interested by the board on the Tek/Kiethley website. https://forum.tek.com/

Paul


Le mercredi 21 juin 2017, vincent.trouilliez@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> a écrit :



---In TekScopes@..., <fabio.tr3visan@...> wrote :
> Just answering you about the "relative" closeness of Brazil to the
US...
> Indeed, would it be just the distance I'd say I'd be a happy man.

Wow.... thanks for the briefing, quite enlightening indeed !
Didn't think that Brazil was THIS bad !

Well I am really sorry to hear that you have to put up with that much
crap every day ! :-/

You really must be motivated/passionate about electronics then, no
doubt... glad you managed to finally get a scope, you sure deserve it !

Here is crossing fingers that the situation in Brazil improves... some
day.... the sooner the better... be strong Fabio... :-/


Regards,


Vince






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------
Posted by: vincent.trouilliez@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Vincent Trouilliez
 

Hi Paul ! :-D

Will e-mail you privately so I don't bore every one on here! LOL

But I guess I can reply to the Tek stuff, this must be allowed ! ^^

The TDS544A still no shutter... as it's not a severe annoyance in practice, as you know, and I have been busy with other projects, mostly fixing the old stuff I buy, woops....

I did play with it quite a bit to get to know it, and discovered a couple (minor) firmware bugs, on top of the lack of FFT, so I think there must be definitely something wrong with the Firmware, so will definitely try to get a "stock" 544A FW to reload my scope with...

I have made some progress to this end recently : I revived my old IBM Aptiva Pentium MMX, featuring lots of old ISA extension slots, so I can install the old GPIB adapters to go with the Tek service/calibration software you gave me, since it only accepts these old cards. Bought a couple of them : a no-name PC2, and a more "prestigious" National Instruments card, that can handle both PC2 and PC2A adapters. Found the info online on how these two types work, tried to configure all the jumpers and dip switches accordingly.. but the Tek software still won't recognize any of them, bummer... :-(
Yeah sure, I checked for IRQ and DMA settings on the host computer BIOS too... all clear there from what I can see.

But well, at least I am progressing...

Last problem with the 544A, more annoying sadly, is that in the past months, somehow the user interface is become laggy/unresponsive... when you use the knobs on the front panel to say, move the trace up and down or left to right, or when changing Vertical gain or time base setting, or just setting a numerical value/parameter in whatever menu... its not very responsive, there is a very noticeable delay... maybe 2 or 3 seconds... drives me nuts. I don't know these scopes so I have no idea what could be causing this :-/
It works just fine, but is just... sluggish now, poor little scope... :-(

I guess I am in for a new thread on this subject, at some point ! LOL


A Tek 2230 for 40 bucks ? Hell that's a good deal indeed, regardless of whether or not it works ! It's a good deal period, well done ! :-) But yeah, buying yet another scope is not how you will make space in your new house ! ;-)

Will have a look at that other Tek forum...


Are you sure you sold the 540 last SUMMER ?! I mean... I bought the 544A from you last September or so, and I saw the 540 for sale on LBC then Ebay, months after that... or am I dreaming ?!
Glad you sold it though, can't believe it took this long for someone to realize what a good deal it was, compared to all the other crappy scope ads I see all day long in France, with overpriced junk ! :-/


Will write to you soon on your private mail for the non Tek stuff ;-)


Regards,


Vince


---In TekScopes@..., <tigrol.lechat@...> wrote :

Hello Vincent,

So, you finally made it here...
I'm pleased to hear the TDS544A is well. (Have you found a replacement LCD
shutter yet?)

I posted here when I was repairing the TDS you have and the TDS540 that I
picked up at the same time. Siggi joined in on the subject IIRC.
I sold the TDS540 last summer to a guy in Perigueux who had built his own
airplane and needed a DSO to debug the onboard equipment.
(I have been thinning-down the pack a little, slowly, but then it is hard
to resist buying other scopes...! I fell for a 2230 for 40€)

This really is the place to be for Tek equipment but you may also be
interested by the board on the Tek/Kiethley website. https://forum.tek.com/

Paul


---In TekScopes@..., <tigrol.lechat@...> wrote :

Hello Vincent,

So, you finally made it here...
I'm pleased to hear the TDS544A is well. (Have you found a replacement LCD
shutter yet?)

I posted here when I was repairing the TDS you have and the TDS540 that I
picked up at the same time. Siggi joined in on the subject IIRC.
I sold the TDS540 last summer to a guy in Perigueux who had built his own
airplane and needed a DSO to debug the onboard equipment.
(I have been thinning-down the pack a little, slowly, but then it is hard
to resist buying other scopes...! I fell for a 2230 for 40€)

This really is the place to be for Tek equipment but you may also be
interested by the board on the Tek/Kiethley website. https://forum.tek.com/ https://forum.tek.com/

Paul

 

On 17 Jun 2017 22:20:46 +0000, you wrote:

- A Tek from the '80s : a 2232 (2x100 "hybrid" analog + digital)

That being said, although I like having the TDS544A for "when you need it"... it's noisy and takes 60seconds to start and draws a lot of power/expensive electricity-wise. So I was looking for a trade off between my old analog Hameg, and the TDS 544A "beast". I wanted one of those "hybrid" scopes from the '80's, the bridge between old analog scopes, and the soon to come advent of the full blown digital scope like the TDS series.
The Tek 2232 seemed like the best model in this regard.
I think the 2232 was the highest performance of the analog plus
digital DSOs that Tektronix made. Philips made some higher
performance ones with the PM3394 being 4 full channels, 200 MHz, 200
MS/s, and having automatic measurements and both analog and digital
cursors.

It offered a nice analog scope (2x100MHz, dual time base, full featured triggering options, on screen read-out, automatic probe detection, GPIB interface, XY plotter interface....) and at the same time the possibility to switch to storage mode for when it's actually useful. In my case, I find it useful when looking at very slow signals where analog scopes are a a pain, and also to catch non-repetitive signals obviously, like catching switch bounces, a power supply powering up, whatever. Obviously the sampling rate/overall performance of the digital board is pathetic, but for the aforementioned use cases, ie "slow" stuff, it's perfectly suited.
And it's fast to start and less noisy and less power hungry than the TDS 544A. So, at least in my case, the Tek 2232 is an ideal general scope, it's my main scope. The TDS544A I fire up when its performance or feature set is of value.
Since the 2232 supports equivalent time sampling, the 100 MS/s sample
rate becomes 2 GS/s for repetitive signals. I have yet to find 100
MS/s too slow when making single shot acquisitions.

The only thing that annoys me in the Tek 2232, is the fact that cursor measurements only work in storage mode, which is inconvenient because the performance in storage mode does not allow to play at high frequencies, whereas in analog only mode, it's capable of 100MHz ! So it's quite frustrating.
Even more so considering that, I gathered, some purely analog scope in the 22xx serie DO have cursor measurements available ! So.. why is it the 2232 can't do it in analog mode ?! Grrr....
But apart from that, I just love my 2232.
The 22xx series is really made up of several different series. The
2232 is part of the 2235 series and the 2210/2211 is part of the 2225
series which is different. The 2212, 2214, and 2216 are just weird.

The 2232 supports equivalent time sampling and peak detection while
the 2210/2211, 2212, 2214, and 2216 do not. On the other hand I think
the others support analog cursors and some automatic measurements.

Vincent Trouilliez
 

---In TekScopes@..., <davidwhess@...> wrote :

I think the 2232 was the highest performance of the analog plus
digital DSOs that Tektronix made. Philips made some higher
performance ones with the PM3394 being 4 full channels, 200 MHz, 200
MS/s, and having automatic measurements and both analog and digital
cursors.





Good to know thanks !
Actually I do love these Fluke/Philips scope, and other instruments they made in the same style/era (Counters, RLC meters for example). If they have analog cursors as well then it's indeed a big plus that will make me consider them more seriously !
So far I have never parted with the cash, because every time I see any type of "PM" Fluke/Philips gear, an objective assessment always forces me to admit that they are way, way overpriced for what they are, features wise most notably, compared to a similarly priced Tek or HP/Agilent gear. That's what put me off buying any "PM" gear so far, despite I am quite fond of them. However the one thing that I dislike about them, the entire range of products they made, is their consistent/dogmatic lack of rotary buttons/knobs. It's a "feature" of theirs... but I anticipate it would drive me nuts pretty quickly, in practice... there is a reason why everyone else uses knobs... because it just works for human beings...


--
Vince