Topics

Advise needed - thinning the herd

Chris Wilkson
 

I've been thinking about getting a *new* scope. Actually brand new. I've never done that. Maybe an Agilent 2000/3000 series. (Yeah, Keysight....I've been thinking a while now.) I have entirely too many scopes. Mostly Tek 7000 series. About 25 of them! And I'm tired of carrying and storing them.


But I do want to keep some analog scopes around. Maybe one or two 7000 mainframes and a good set of plugins.


The question is which two Tek 7k scopes should I have on hand? I'm not worried about plug ins right now...that's a future project. Just the mainframes for now. I require X-Y mode capability, but other than that it's wide open.


What would you recommend and why?


Thanks,
-Chris

stefan_trethan
 

You need one of each. They all have their specific strengths. ;-)

Actually I think the plugins determine which MF you need to keep.
I like to use my 7D20 every now and then (no fan, quick to start), in
a OS254P/U with the large screen.

If you do not have a DA1855 you need to keep your 7A13 operating, and
also your 7A22, unless you have an AM502. They don't require all that
much in terms of MF, but storage might be nice.

You will know if you need to keep any of the fast mainframes.

As for the new HP, I prefer to use the Lecroy DDA125 rather than a
MSOX3054. That's a 17 year old Lecroy winning against a current model
from HP. Just saying I wouldn't go there, but the same is true for the
current low end Asia made Lecroys (Up to and including Wavesurfer
3000).

Test drive any new scope for an extended period on actual circuits
before you buy. A quick demo with the sales person breathing down your
neck is not good enough.

I just don't think threre's good value for money there, in new low end
scopes, but that's your business.

ST



On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 4:05 PM, cwilkson@... [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@...> wrote:
I've been thinking about getting a *new* scope. Actually brand new. I've never done that. Maybe an Agilent 2000/3000 series. (Yeah, Keysight....I've been thinking a while now.) I have entirely too many scopes. Mostly Tek 7000 series. About 25 of them! And I'm tired of carrying and storing them.


But I do want to keep some analog scopes around. Maybe one or two 7000 mainframes and a good set of plugins.


The question is which two Tek 7k scopes should I have on hand? I'm not worried about plug ins right now...that's a future project. Just the mainframes for now. I require X-Y mode capability, but other than that it's wide open.


What would you recommend and why?


Thanks,
-Chris






------------------------------------
Posted by: cwilkson@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


 

My opinion FWIW is 7854 and a 7104 plus maybe a 7633/7623B for those slow
PIs that benefit from storage mode.

You may prefer a 7904A over a 7104 for longevity if you use it often as
those MCP CRTs do wear out ...

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: 02 November 2016 15:05
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Advise needed - thinning the herd

I've been thinking about getting a *new* scope. Actually brand new. I've
never done that. Maybe an Agilent 2000/3000 series. (Yeah,
Keysight....I've been thinking a while now.) I have entirely too many
scopes. Mostly Tek 7000 series. About 25 of them! And I'm tired of
carrying and storing them.


But I do want to keep some analog scopes around. Maybe one or two 7000
mainframes and a good set of plugins.


The question is which two Tek 7k scopes should I have on hand? I'm not
worried about plug ins right now...that's a future project. Just the
mainframes for now. I require X-Y mode capability, but other than that it's
wide open.


What would you recommend and why?


Thanks,
-Chris






------------------------------------
Posted by: cwilkson@...
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

John Griessen
 

On 11/02/2016 10:05 AM, cwilkson@... [TekScopes] wrote:
The question is which two Tek 7k scopes should I have on hand? I'm not worried about plug ins right now...that's a future project.
Just the mainframes for now. I require X-Y mode capability, but other than that it's wide open.


What would you recommend and why?
7844 for its ability to sweep 2 fast signals and compare them
7854 for storing the outputs of your 7k plugins
7904A for fast signals
7104 super fast

If just two, and you don't think in terms of super fast 7104,

just keep these:

7844 for its ability to sweep 2 fast signals and compare them
7854 for storing the outputs of your 7k plugins

 

I agree with what others have mentioned but I'd add (!) a 7603 for its large screen, ease of use, relative simplicity in repairing.
To tell the truth, you need all of them...

Raymond

 

Hi Chris,

I agree completely with David.

The 7104 has several very important advantages over all of the other 7000
scopes:
* 1GHz+ analog performance
* Brilliant display capability. Single shot sub-nSec pulses are visible in
daylight.
* 500MHz XY capability. No other 7000 scope even comes close to the
horizontal bandwidth of the 7104. This horizontal BW is essential for high
speed XY. Most other 7000 horizontal amplifiers can't even reach 50MHz.

The 7854 has its own unique capabilities
* 400MHz analog capability and 10 bit digital sampling capability. The
sampling is slow by today's standards but it sure comes in handy as a
temporary storage scope.
* GPIB programmability

I would also recommend keeping a 7603 as a third mainframe because of the
size of the CRT.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Advise needed - thinning the herd

My opinion FWIW is 7854 and a 7104 plus maybe a 7633/7623B for those slow
PIs that benefit from storage mode.

You may prefer a 7904A over a 7104 for longevity if you use it often as
those MCP CRTs do wear out ...

Dave

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 02 November 2016 15:05
Subject: [TekScopes] Advise needed - thinning the herd

I've been thinking about getting a *new* scope. Actually brand new. I've
never done that. Maybe an Agilent 2000/3000 series. (Yeah,
Keysight....I've been thinking a while now.) I have entirely too many
scopes. Mostly Tek 7000 series. About 25 of them! And I'm tired of
carrying and storing them.

But I do want to keep some analog scopes around. Maybe one or two 7000
mainframes and a good set of plugins.

The question is which two Tek 7k scopes should I have on hand? I'm not
worried about plug ins right now...that's a future project. Just the
mainframes for now. I require X-Y mode capability, but other than that it's
wide open.

What would you recommend and why?

Thanks,
-Chris
------------------------------------
Posted by: cwilkson@...
------------------------------------

------------------------------------
Posted by: "David C. Partridge" <@perdrix>

Dave Wise
 

7603 = best home for a digital-storage SA plugin. You know you want one.

Dave
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@... <TekScopes@...> on behalf of 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 9:23 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Advise needed - thinning the herd

Hi Chris,

I agree completely with David.

The 7104 has several very important advantages over all of the other 7000
scopes:
* 1GHz+ analog performance
* Brilliant display capability. Single shot sub-nSec pulses are visible in
daylight.
* 500MHz XY capability. No other 7000 scope even comes close to the
horizontal bandwidth of the 7104. This horizontal BW is essential for high
speed XY. Most other 7000 horizontal amplifiers can't even reach 50MHz.

The 7854 has its own unique capabilities
* 400MHz analog capability and 10 bit digital sampling capability. The
sampling is slow by today's standards but it sure comes in handy as a
temporary storage scope.
* GPIB programmability

I would also recommend keeping a 7603 as a third mainframe because of the
size of the CRT.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

 

I agree with Stefan about maximizing the unique capabilities of the
7000 series like the 7A13 and 7A22 vertical amplifiers but they will
work well in almost any mainframe to their full potential so other
considerations are more important.

If you have a 7S11/7T11 or 7S14 sampling setup, then I would keep one
variable persistence mainframe which could be a 7613, 7623/A/B, 7633,
7834, or 7934. Even if you do not, I would consider keeping one and
refurbishing a 7S14 to use with it unless you have an interest above 1
GHz in which case the much more difficult to maintain 7S11/7T11 is the
only choice.

The 7613, 7623/A/B, and 7633 are easier to maintain and smaller than
the 7834 and 7934 but the later have the same horizontal operating
modes and bandwidth as the other 4-bay mainframes. My preference for
the most limited setup though would be the 7613 because it has the
fastest variable persistence writing rate at 5 div/us. The 7834 and
7934 are second fastest at 2 div/us and the others are much slower at
0.5div/us. Of course the 7834 and 7934 can also serve as a general
purpose 400 or 500 MHz 4-bay mainframe although their CRTs are not as
bright or sharp.

One of the variable persistence mainframes and a 7S11/7T11 or 7S14 can
produce a display like this which would require a modern DSO costing
$10k or more:

<https://s15.postimg.org/jj4q268xn/PG506_Pattern_Dependant_Jitter.jpg>

Which with some processing to make it easy to print, looks like this:

<https://s15.postimg.org/oj26a4ekb/PDJ_lolcat.jpg>

A variable persistence mainframe is also useful with the 7CT1N curve
tracer.

Beyond that I think it depends on the bandwidth of your new DSO. If
it is 1 GHz then I would not bother with the high bandwidth 7000
mainframes only for their bandwidth and I think the 7S14 (or
7S11/7T11) is more useful anyway; the sampling units are immune to
non-destructive overload and have very predictable transient response
making them uniquely useful for metrology.

Beyond that if a suitable DSO is available, then I am dubious about
the non-storage mainframes except maybe the 7603 because of its large
screen. The storage functions of the 7854 can be duplicated by
connecting the vertical output from any 7000 mainframe to a DSO. The
unique dual sweep capability of the 7844 requires photography to
really take advantage of it. All of the 4-bay 7000 mainframes support
independent pairs timebase capability and of course the 7844 does it
best so that may be a reason to keep one.

For a new DSO, I would consider the Hameg/R&S HMO series of DSOs. I
have watched a couple of review videos on them and they seem the most
user friendly.

On 02 Nov 2016 08:05:17 -0700, you wrote:

I've been thinking about getting a *new* scope. Actually brand new. I've never done that. Maybe an Agilent 2000/3000 series. (Yeah, Keysight....I've been thinking a while now.) I have entirely too many scopes. Mostly Tek 7000 series. About 25 of them! And I'm tired of carrying and storing them.

But I do want to keep some analog scopes around. Maybe one or two 7000 mainframes and a good set of plugins.

The question is which two Tek 7k scopes should I have on hand? I'm not worried about plug ins right now...that's a future project. Just the mainframes for now. I require X-Y mode capability, but other than that it's wide open.

What would you recommend and why?

Thanks,
-Chris

 

The 7834 and 7934 are second fastest at 2 div/us
More like >= 5500 div/us for the 7834...

Raymond

 

On 02 Nov 2016 16:32:55 -0700, you wrote:

The 7834 and 7934 are second fastest at 2 div/us
More like >= 5500 div/us for the 7834...

Raymond
That is in fast transfer mode which is considerably annoying to use
and really only suitable for single shot applications where it is
admitted invaluable. Even then it is only 5500 div/us for the 7834
and 8800 div/us for the 7934 in reduced scan mode.

 

That is in fast transfer mode which is considerably annoying to use
> and really only suitable for single shot applications where it is
> admitted invaluable. Even then it is only 5500 div/us for the 7834
> and 8800 div/us for the 7934 in reduced scan mode.
"Only 5500 div/us" allows me to see a single shot 1 ns edge across some 2 cm as per spec. In practice I can see the full edge of my 700 ps PG506 across some 4 full divisions (Fast Variable Persistence at Reduced Scan, or Fast Transfer Mode). It shows as about 1.1 nsec. Admittedly, these are very specific cases but I wouldn't call this mode particularly annoying to use, especially on a 7834 or (slower) on a 466.
To see that on a DSO, you'll need something like a 5 GSa/sec sample rate.

Of course, you'd want some form of variable persistence in many cases. In that mode, Full Scan Fast Variable Persistence is still spec'ed at 300 div/usec or 270 cm/usec for the 7834.
In many instances, standard Variable Versistence will do, even at only 2 div/usec, like in the examples (images) you linked to.

I can't help being a fan of analog storage for many applications, witness my 464, 466, 7613, 7623A, 7633, 7834, all in good shape.

I find that the limited possibilities but fast reaction and storage speed of a faster analog storage 'scope still have great appeal. And at the prices they achieved a while ago, why limit myself to the least performing 7613?
My 7L13 permanently lives in a 7613...

Raymond

John Griessen
 

On 11/03/2016 11:23 AM, @Raymond [TekScopes] wrote:
"Only 5500 div/us" allows me to see a single shot 1 ns edge across some 2 cm as per spec. In practice I can see the full edge of
my 700 ps PG506 across some 4 full divisions (Fast Variable Persistence at Reduced Scan, or Fast Transfer Mode). It shows as about
1.1 nsec. Admittedly, these are very specific cases but I wouldn't call this mode particularly annoying to use, especially on a
7834 or (slower) on a 466.
To see that on a DSO, you'll need something like a 5 GSa/sec sample rate.
Makes me want to repair my 7633!

 

On 03 Nov 2016 09:23:36 -0700, you wrote:

That is in fast transfer mode which is considerably annoying to use
and really only suitable for single shot applications where it is
admitted invaluable. Even then it is only 5500 div/us for the 7834
and 8800 div/us for the 7934 in reduced scan mode.
"Only 5500 div/us" allows me to see a single shot 1 ns edge across some 2 cm as per spec. In practice I can see the full edge of my 700 ps PG506 across some 4 full divisions (Fast Variable Persistence at Reduced Scan, or Fast Transfer Mode). It shows as about 1.1 nsec. Admittedly, these are very specific cases but I wouldn't call this mode particularly annoying to use, especially on a 7834 or (slower) on a 466.
To see that on a DSO, you'll need something like a 5 GSa/sec sample rate.

Of course, you'd want some form of variable persistence in many cases. In that mode, Full Scan Fast Variable Persistence is still spec'ed at 300 div/usec or 270 cm/usec for the 7834.
In many instances, standard Variable Versistence will do, even at only 2 div/usec, like in the examples (images) you linked to.

I can't help being a fan of analog storage for many applications, witness my 464, 466, 7613, 7623A, 7633, 7834, all in good shape.

I find that the limited possibilities but fast reaction and storage speed of a faster analog storage 'scope still have great appeal. And at the prices they achieved a while ago, why limit myself to the least performing 7613?
My 7L13 permanently lives in a 7613...

Raymond
Oh, the fast capture modes definitely work and I bought a 7834 for the
same reason; it was the least expensive way to get 400 MHz single shot
capture performance. For repetitive applications however, variable
persistence mode is much easier to use.

Getting back to the original topic, if I was limited to one 7000
mainframe, then it would be one of the variable persistence models. If
I was limited to two 7000 mainframes, then one of them would be a
variable persistence model. But the fast transfer modes would not be
a consideration.

Gary Robert Bosworth
 

Keep one 7854 and one 7904.


On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 7:30 PM, David @DWH [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:



On 03 Nov 2016 09:23:36 -0700, you wrote:

That is in fast transfer mode which is considerably annoying to use
and really only suitable for single shot applications where it is
admitted invaluable. Even then it is only 5500 div/us for the 7834
and 8800 div/us for the 7934 in reduced scan mode.
"Only 5500 div/us" allows me to see a single shot 1 ns edge across some 2
cm as per spec. In practice I can see the full edge of my 700 ps PG506
across some 4 full divisions (Fast Variable Persistence at Reduced Scan, or
Fast Transfer Mode). It shows as about 1.1 nsec. Admittedly, these are very
specific cases but I wouldn't call this mode particularly annoying to use,
especially on a 7834 or (slower) on a 466.
To see that on a DSO, you'll need something like a 5 GSa/sec sample rate.

Of course, you'd want some form of variable persistence in many cases. In
that mode, Full Scan Fast Variable Persistence is still spec'ed at 300
div/usec or 270 cm/usec for the 7834.
In many instances, standard Variable Versistence will do, even at only 2
div/usec, like in the examples (images) you linked to.

I can't help being a fan of analog storage for many applications, witness
my 464, 466, 7613, 7623A, 7633, 7834, all in good shape.

I find that the limited possibilities but fast reaction and storage speed
of a faster analog storage 'scope still have great appeal. And at the
prices they achieved a while ago, why limit myself to the least performing
7613?
My 7L13 permanently lives in a 7613...

Raymond
Oh, the fast capture modes definitely work and I bought a 7834 for the
same reason; it was the least expensive way to get 400 MHz single shot
capture performance. For repetitive applications however, variable
persistence mode is much easier to use.

Getting back to the original topic, if I was limited to one 7000
mainframe, then it would be one of the variable persistence models. If
I was limited to two 7000 mainframes, then one of them would be a
variable persistence model. But the fast transfer modes would not be
a consideration.



--
Gary Robert Bosworth
@grbosworth
Tel: 310-317-2247


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Chris Wilkson
 

Thanks everyone for your inputs. It sounds like the following are the most popular:

7854 - it's fast and it has GPIB

7904(A) - it's faster

7104 - it's *really* fast , especially in XY mode
7834 - analog storage
7603 - it's only 3-bay, but it has a large display


I'd like to stick with 4-bay models, but I might keep a 7603 for when old age sets in. :)



So now, some follow up questions:


Which is preferred 7904 vs 7904A?
Is the extra bandwidth of the 7904(A) the only advantage over a 7854?
For the 7854, is the display smoothly analog, or is it plotted in a raster, post sampling?


Another question. I have a p7001 unit that I picked up without a scope. Is it compatible with anything besides the 7704(A)? And mainly....is it USEFUL? Is it worth the effort to install it in a scope?



Now that that's done I need to go through and see exactly what I have in the herd. I know I have at least three 7104's, a 7934, two (maybe three) 7834's, one or two 7904(A?)'s, and a 7704(A?). Also picked up a 7844 a while back. I have a 7603, and maybe a 76x3 storage unit.


What I don't have is a 7854. Anyone have one for sale?

 

You made very good choices.

There is no contest. The 7904A is faster and better designed internally than
the 7904.

When Tek came out with the 7904 it was the fastest lab scope available by
far, but they stretched all of their engineering capability to get it to
work at 500MHz.

By the time the 7904A comes out the 7104 was already double its speed. Tek
used everything they had learned at that time to redesign the 7904 into the
7904A. They used a lot of the technology of the 7104 CRT in the 7904A CRT.
As a result the 7904A is a rock solid 600+ MHz scope.

The 7854 display is true analog. Perfectly smooth. It is also digital (It is
really two scopes in one) when you want it to be. In the digital mode it can
either be vector (smooth) or just the X,Y points. There is no rasterizing
going on at all.

The P7001 is a curiosity. It required a separate DEC PDP-8 or PDP-11 to do
anything useful. Keep it if you want but it was rapidly superseded by the
7854 and then, later, by almost all digital scopes when they started
appearing.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 7:43 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Advise needed - thinning the herd

Thanks everyone for your inputs. It sounds like the following are the most
popular:

7854 - it's fast and it has GPIB

7904(A) - it's faster

7104 - it's *really* fast , especially in XY mode
7834 - analog storage
7603 - it's only 3-bay, but it has a large display

I'd like to stick with 4-bay models, but I might keep a 7603 for when old
age sets in. :)

So now, some follow up questions:

Which is preferred 7904 vs 7904A?
Is the extra bandwidth of the 7904(A) the only advantage over a 7854?
For the 7854, is the display smoothly analog, or is it plotted in a raster,
post sampling?

Another question. I have a p7001 unit that I picked up without a scope.
Is it compatible with anything besides the 7704(A)? And mainly....is it
USEFUL? Is it worth the effort to install it in a scope?

Now that that's done I need to go through and see exactly what I have in
the herd. I know I have at least three 7104's, a 7934, two (maybe three)
7834's, one or two 7904(A?)'s, and a 7704(A?). Also picked up a 7844 a
while back. I have a 7603, and maybe a 76x3 storage unit.

What I don't have is a 7854. Anyone have one for sale?
------------------------------------
Posted by: cwilkson@...
------------------------------------

David DiGiacomo
 

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Dennis Tillman <@Dennis_Tillman_W7PF> wrote:

There is no contest. The 7904A is faster and better designed internally than
the 7904.
On the other hand, the 7904 is the fastest fanless scope around*, so
if you like quiet, it could be a better choice.


* Some very late model 7904s have a fan, most do not.

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

There is no contest. The 7904A is faster and better designed internally than the 7904.
The 7904A is much faster than the spec suggests. If you put a 7A29/7B10 in there it is almost as
fast as the 7104 (I forget what I measured on my 7904A, but it was certainly over 700MHz) - but
without the microchannel electron multiplier of course. In a sense it is not surprising since it
uses many of the same hypcon hybrids that the 7104 does. I've heard it said on this forum that Tek
deliberately underspecced the 7904A to keep product differentiation.

The P7001 is a curiosity. It required a separate DEC PDP-8 or PDP-11 to do anything useful. Keep
it if
you want but it was rapidly superseded by the
7854 and then, later, by almost all digital scopes when they started appearing.

Dennis Tillman W7PF
https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
I'd like a P7001 if only for completeness sake, and the fact that is has an electric knitting core
store in there. But yes - if you look at the Tek catalogues, it is kind of scary the racks of what
was then very serious computers to make it strut its stuff. But that was in the era that Tek
introduced a bunch of ludicrously expensive hardware, like several kB of disc storage for tens of $k

Craig

 

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:41:27 -0800, you wrote:

...

By the time the 7904A comes out the 7104 was already double its speed. Tek
used everything they had learned at that time to redesign the 7904 into the
7904A. They used a lot of the technology of the 7104 CRT in the 7904A CRT.
As a result the 7904A is a rock solid 600+ MHz scope.
And the 7934 was redesigned in the same way with features from the
7104. I thought this made economic sense just based on making maximum
use of their new packaging technologies, consolidation, and having a
design which requires less tweaking during production. The 7844 was
the last 7904 based design but I wonder if Tektronix considered
redesigning it also.

What features did the 7904A CRT get from the 7104? It does not have
distributed horizontal deflection so its horizontal bandwidth is no
better (1 MHz) and as far as I can tell from the schematic, it uses a
scan expansion mesh instead of the box lens from the 7104.

The 7854 display is true analog. Perfectly smooth. It is also digital (It is
really two scopes in one) when you want it to be. In the digital mode it can
either be vector (smooth) or just the X,Y points. There is no rasterizing
going on at all.
The 7854 character generation is rasterized using a 5x7 matrix for
individual characters. I actually prefer the hybrid vector characters
produced by the late 7000 hybrid readout board (very clever) and the
2230/2232.

Since the CRT is driven with 10 bit horizontal and vertical
resolution, it looks exceptionally smooth and this is what makes the
2230/2232 look good even compared to modern LCD displays; the
difference is about 250 dpi versus 72 dpi. I have yet to see a
"retina" display on a modern DSO.

Tektronix was using retina displays before they were cool. HP had a
higher than normal resolution raster CRT display for some of their
early DSOs.

...

Dennis Tillman W7PF

Dave Seiter
 

Does your P7001 have core or silicon memory?  While I have yet to actually try mine out, one reason I got it was that I had always wanted a working example of core memory.  I wonder what a gigabyte of core would look like, a small house?  Also, the P7001 only works with the 7704A.  The split chassis design was meant for items like the P7001, but I think it was the one they ever released.
Another reason for keeping a 7603 is if you have an SA,, and you have the 7603 option with the SA graticule.
-Dave

From: "cwilkson@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 7:43 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Advise needed - thinning the herd

  Thanks everyone for your inputs. It sounds like the following are the most popular:

7854 - it's fast and it has GPIB

7904(A) - it's faster

7104 - it's *really* fast , especially in XY mode
7834 - analog storage
7603 - it's only 3-bay, but it has a large display


I'd like to stick with 4-bay models, but I might keep a 7603 for when old age sets in. :)



So now, some follow up questions:


Which is preferred 7904 vs 7904A?
Is the extra bandwidth of the 7904(A) the only advantage over a 7854?
For the 7854, is the display smoothly analog, or is it plotted in a raster, post sampling?


Another question. I have a p7001 unit that I picked up without a scope. Is it compatible with anything besides the 7704(A)? And mainly....is it USEFUL? Is it worth the effort to install it in a scope?



Now that that's done I need to go through and see exactly what I have in the herd. I know I have at least three 7104's, a 7934, two (maybe three) 7834's, one or two 7904(A?)'s, and a 7704(A?). Also picked up a 7844 a while back. I have a 7603, and maybe a 76x3 storage unit.


What I don't have is a 7854. Anyone have one for sale?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436 -- #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp #yiv9627478436hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp #yiv9627478436ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp .yiv9627478436ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp .yiv9627478436ad p {margin:0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mkp .yiv9627478436ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-sponsor #yiv9627478436ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-sponsor #yiv9627478436ygrp-lc #yiv9627478436hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-sponsor #yiv9627478436ygrp-lc .yiv9627478436ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436activity span .yiv9627478436underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 dd.yiv9627478436last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9627478436 dd.yiv9627478436last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv9627478436 dd.yiv9627478436last p span.yiv9627478436yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436file-title a, #yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436file-title a:active, #yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436file-title a:hover, #yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436photo-title a, #yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436photo-title a:active, #yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436photo-title a:hover, #yiv9627478436 div.yiv9627478436photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 div#yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg #yiv9627478436ygrp-msg p a span.yiv9627478436yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv9627478436 o {font-size:0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv9627478436 .yiv9627478436replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv9627478436 input, #yiv9627478436 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv9627478436 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-mlmsg #yiv9627478436logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-msg p#yiv9627478436attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-reco #yiv9627478436reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-sponsor #yiv9627478436ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-sponsor #yiv9627478436ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-sponsor #yiv9627478436ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv9627478436 #yiv9627478436ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv9627478436



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]