Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link


Tim Phillips <tim@...>
 

from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808


Daniel Koller
 

Awesome cool! I was wondering what instrument they were being used for. By the age, it looks like it could have been the Alternating Gradient Synchrotron, and I was right. Here's the photo in context:


https://www.bnl.gov/about/history/accelerators.php

My humble RM503 was the beam monitor at the Rutgers Van de Graaf for many years. The control room was similar, but smaller and far fewer scopes!

Dan


Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808
Thanks for the big version, Tim - I've saved that!

Craig


 

There are MANY members of this forum that have more scopes than this :)

BTW, I was extremely fortunate in 2002 to get a personal tour of the
National Synchrotron Light Source by one of the scientists that worked
there. All around the "ring" that the particles circled were "ports" where
companies had paid to access part of the beam current to bombard material
samples. I remember very well a few prominent semiconductor / computer
companies had their equipment set up at these ports.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:51 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Tim Phillips" <tim@...>
------------------------------------


Daniel Koller
 

Dennis, who gave you the tour?  I was very fortunate to have *worked there* as a graduate student from 1990 to 1995. It was one of the most amazing research environments ever created, and is hopefully continuing at the NSLS-II. 
Unfortunately, I had better test and measurement instrumentation in my home shop that we had in my grad student lab most of the time.  We had to make do with less.  Fortunately we were just "users" and didn't have to maintain the beam line, except as we needed to use it.
Dan

On Monday, January 18, 2016 4:00 PM, "'Dennis Tillman' dennis@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:



  There are MANY members of this forum that have more scopes than this :)

BTW, I was extremely fortunate in 2002 to get a personal tour of the
National Synchrotron Light Source by one of the scientists that worked
there. All around the "ring" that the particles circled were "ports" where
companies had paid to access part of the beam current to bombard material
samples. I remember very well a few prominent semiconductor / computer
companies had their equipment set up at these ports.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:51 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Tim Phillips" <tim@...>
------------------------------------

#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171 -- #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp #yiv6323647171hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp #yiv6323647171ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp .yiv6323647171ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp .yiv6323647171ad p {margin:0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mkp .yiv6323647171ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-sponsor #yiv6323647171ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-sponsor #yiv6323647171ygrp-lc #yiv6323647171hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-sponsor #yiv6323647171ygrp-lc .yiv6323647171ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171activity span .yiv6323647171underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 dd.yiv6323647171last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv6323647171 dd.yiv6323647171last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv6323647171 dd.yiv6323647171last p span.yiv6323647171yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171file-title a, #yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171file-title a:active, #yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171file-title a:hover, #yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171photo-title a, #yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171photo-title a:active, #yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171photo-title a:hover, #yiv6323647171 div.yiv6323647171photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 div#yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg #yiv6323647171ygrp-msg p a span.yiv6323647171yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv6323647171 o {font-size:0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv6323647171 .yiv6323647171replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv6323647171 input, #yiv6323647171 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv6323647171 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-mlmsg #yiv6323647171logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-msg p#yiv6323647171attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-reco #yiv6323647171reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-sponsor #yiv6323647171ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-sponsor #yiv6323647171ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-sponsor #yiv6323647171ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv6323647171 #yiv6323647171ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv6323647171


 

Hi Tim,
Growing up in the NYC metro area we had a little summer cottage on the north shore of Long Island in Riverhead. By 1980 my parents enlarged it and retired there. In 2002, when my mother passed away, I went back for her funeral and to take care of her affairs. Her neighbors across the street (I don't remember their names) loved my mother and used to watch over her to be sure she was OK.

I stayed at their house for about a week. He worked in at Brookhaven (that was all I knew). He started out there as a technician but became an engineer over the years. His wife was a graduate of Cornell University and an expert in birds. We had lots of scientific conversations and at one point I mentioned my interest in astronomy to him. He said he was a member of the astronomy club at the lab and invited me to their meeting. It was great fun. Someone there had a 10" reflector mirror (a reject from some satellite telescope project) in a Dobsonian telescope mount and we were looking at Messier objects.

After the meeting he asked if I had any interest at all in seeing the lab where he worked. I said sure. Little did I know what he was talking about. So we headed over to "his" lab around midnight which was perfect since the only staff on duty were the guys in the control room who keep the beam energy and beam current within spec. They were thrilled that I knew everything they were doing (I minored in atomic physics in college and I have always had a rabid interest in cosmology, atomic physics, nuclear physics, etc.

I ended up spending two hours there. I got to walk around the ring looking at all the ports and the experiments attached to them. Nobody cared what I looked at since none of the companies doing the research had people present at night. We went up on the catwalk into the middle of the ring too. They were all so nice to me because I understood what they were doing. The marketing brochure Brookhaven had said it was The Brightest Light in the World at the time.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 3:48 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

Dennis, who gave you the tour? I was very fortunate to have *worked there* as a graduate student from 1990 to 1995. It was one of the most amazing research environments ever created, and is hopefully continuing at the NSLS-II. Unfortunately, I had better test and measurement instrumentation in my home shop that we had in my grad student lab most of the time. We had to make do with less. Fortunately we were just "users" and didn't have to maintain the beam line, except as we needed to use it.
Dan

On Monday, January 18, 2016 4:00 PM, "'Dennis Tillman' dennis@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:



There are MANY members of this forum that have more scopes than this :)

BTW, I was extremely fortunate in 2002 to get a personal tour of the National Synchrotron Light Source by one of the scientists that worked there. All around the "ring" that the particles circled were "ports" where companies had paid to access part of the beam current to bombard material samples. I remember very well a few prominent semiconductor / computer companies had their equipment set up at these ports.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:51 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Tim Phillips" <tim@...>
------------------------------------


Gary Robert Bosworth
 

They obviously had too much money to play with. I hope they had fun. I sure
didn't while paying outrageous taxes.



On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, 'Tim Phillips'
tim@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808



--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247


John Miles
 

The work done in places like Brookhaven is why you didn't have to type that message on an old IBM Selectric, lick a stamp, and mail it to your local newspaper editor.



-- john, KE5FX





From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:44 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link





They obviously had too much money to play with. I hope they had fun. I sure
didn't while paying outrageous taxes.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, 'Tim Phillips'
tim@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



from Tim P (UK)

this is what I meant (I posted same long ago; Craig, you are right !)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brookhavenlab/8495993808

--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247


Daniel Koller
 

With all due respect, the National Labs, like Brookhaven, do not have *enough* money to do all the great research they are capable of.


At the risk of veering away from the topic of Tek, I note that messages like this below tend to get under my skin. Realize that the great developments in test and measurement instrumentation in the Post War period were driven in large part by the Cold War, and were *enabled* by the sort of basic research done at university, private and government labs. The government was a HUGE customer of Tektronix.

And while we really did enjoy doing research at BNL, when we "took beam", we worked our asses off in shifts 24/7. I assure you no tax dollars were "wasted" in our endeavors.

Dan

On Monday, January 18, 2016 9:43 PM, "Gary Robert Bosworth grbosworth@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:





They obviously had too much money to play with. I hope they had fun. I sure
didn't while paying outrageous taxes.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, 'Tim Phillips'
tim@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:


Gary Robert Bosworth
 

Without the government military inflated purchases, Tektronix probably
would not have been able to survive. In fact, it was the inflated prices
to government purchases that made Tek scopes too expensive for the average
buyer. Small businesses were unable to buy this quality equipment, and as
a result, either died in infancy - or never got started in the first
place. This is reality like it or not.



On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Daniel Koller kaboomdk@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



With all due respect, the National Labs, like Brookhaven, do not have
*enough* money to do all the great research they are capable of.

At the risk of veering away from the topic of Tek, I note that messages
like this below tend to get under my skin. Realize that the great
developments in test and measurement instrumentation in the Post War period
were driven in large part by the Cold War, and were *enabled* by the sort
of basic research done at university, private and government labs. The
government was a HUGE customer of Tektronix.

And while we really did enjoy doing research at BNL, when we "took beam",
we worked our asses off in shifts 24/7. I assure you no tax dollars were
"wasted" in our endeavors.

Dan

On Monday, January 18, 2016 9:43 PM, "Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:




They obviously had too much money to play with. I hope they had fun. I
sure
didn't while paying outrageous taxes.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, 'Tim Phillips'
tim@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
wrote:


--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brian <brianclarke01@...>
 

Hello Gary,

I suppose as a qualified CPA, you have evidence to support your assertion?

73 de Brian, VK2GCE

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 3:28 PM, Gary averred:

Without the government military inflated purchases, Tektronix probably
would not have been able to survive. In fact, it was the inflated prices
to government purchases that made Tek scopes too expensive for the average
buyer. Small businesses were unable to buy this quality equipment, and as
a result, either died in infancy - or never got started in the first
place. This is reality like it or not.


Gary Robert Bosworth
 

Just look at those outrageous prices from catalogs of the past. Most small
businesses could never afford this equipment.

When the government can spend $600 for an aircraft toilet seat, it is not
getting value for the American taxpayer.

Much of industry can attribute its sustainability and survivability to
government spending. It has always been that way and most intelligent
people recognize this fact.




On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 8:37 PM, 'Brian' brianclarke01@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



Hello Gary,

I suppose as a qualified CPA, you have evidence to support your assertion?

73 de Brian, VK2GCE

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 3:28 PM, Gary averred:

Without the government military inflated purchases, Tektronix probably
would not have been able to survive. In fact, it was the inflated prices
to government purchases that made Tek scopes too expensive for the average
buyer. Small businesses were unable to buy this quality equipment, and as
a result, either died in infancy - or never got started in the first
place. This is reality like it or not.






--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


John Clark
 

You've obviously never been hit with the $25,000 price tag for an aircraft microwave or coffee maker (or any other aircraft part for that matter.) $600 for an aircraft toilet seat doesn't seem like very much when you know what things cost for an aircraft. Lawyers and litigation have more to do with it than anything else.

John

To: TekScopes@...
From: TekScopes@...
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 20:56:45 -0800
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link


























Just look at those outrageous prices from catalogs of the past. Most small

businesses could never afford this equipment.



When the government can spend $600 for an aircraft toilet seat, it is not

getting value for the American taxpayer.



Much of industry can attribute its sustainability and survivability to

government spending. It has always been that way and most intelligent

people recognize this fact.


Gary Robert Bosworth
 

Nobody is suggesting that anything illegal or unethical is occurring. It
is the expectation that corporations maximize profits for its
shareholders. They are required by law to do this. And, any corporation
can set any price they want to on their products. The fact that Ferraris
and Rolls Royces cost a lot of money does not imply unfairness. But to a
poor person who can never afford one, the pain is there none the less. I,
for one, would have liked to buy high-tech equipment over the past 50
years, but I could not afford it. The prices were usually set high because
there were customers with deep pockets that encouraged the manufacturers to
increase the selling cost. Such is life. We have to expect and accept
this. I doubt that normal business activities are ever going to change in
any way. I suppose that if I was the manufacturer, I would try my best to
maximize my profit margin. Let those who can, do.


On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 9:02 PM, John Clark johnclark05@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



You've obviously never been hit with the $25,000 price tag for an aircraft
microwave or coffee maker (or any other aircraft part for that matter.)
$600 for an aircraft toilet seat doesn't seem like very much when you know
what things cost for an aircraft. Lawyers and litigation have more to do
with it than anything else.

John

To: TekScopes@...
From: TekScopes@...
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 20:56:45 -0800
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

Just look at those outrageous prices from catalogs of the past. Most small

businesses could never afford this equipment.

When the government can spend $600 for an aircraft toilet seat, it is not

getting value for the American taxpayer.

Much of industry can attribute its sustainability and survivability to

government spending. It has always been that way and most intelligent

people recognize this fact.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

Hi Gary,

I disagree.

From 1966 to 1969 worked for a 11,000 person division of a big company building autopilots where I was in a lab with over 100 electronics technicians. There were 65 Tek scopes on carts (a few 535s, lots of 545s, and a few 547s, and a 575) and maybe 40 Fairchild scopes. The Fairchild scopes were crap. Nobody wanted to get stuck with them. The company did military (B-52) and commercial work (Concorde). I saved up for a year to buy my first Tek scope. It was a brand new 50MHz 453. So mere mortals could afford them although it was extremely rare that someone might have that level of passion to start at the top.

After that I worked for several smaller companies. They all had Tek scopes. In 1970 I went to work for a 50 person company that already had 5 Tek 560 scopes and a brand new (stunning!) 576 curve tracer which had just been introduced. A year later I pestered them into buying their first 7000 series scope.

In 1976 I worked for another small company (60 people) with 4 Tek scopes. That is when I bought my first 7000 scope (7704A). There was someone else at that company that owned his own Tek scope as well.

From 2000 to 2006 I worked for a 30 person company. They had 5 Tek lunchbox scopes and a 575 with the high current power supply accessory.

Companies large and small bought Tektronix test equipment. Size or cost had nothing to do with it. Private individuals bought them too. There were many companies selling less expensive scopes. I mentioned Fairchild, but there were others such as Telequipment (which I used for a while at one company - it was fine). Even HeathKit made a triggered scope suitable for technicians to use. The often quoted statistic is that 90% of new companies fail. You are the first one to suggest that some of those companies failed because they could not afford the test equipment. It is more likely those companies didn't make it for other reasons. There is no way to know.

Anyone can bid on a government contract. Tek had a worthy competitor in HP. Competition kept costs down. HP equipment isn't cheap either. Are they guilty of gouging the government too? Tektronix created several unique products such as the first 1GHz scope (519), the first practical vacuum tube curve tracer (570), an affordable transistor curve tracer (575), The first plugin scope, the first 500MHz scope (7904), the first 1GHz scope (7104), etc. Maybe Tektronix was so successful because they created the highest quality leading edge instruments that companies needed to succeed.

If the government wanted to keep costs down they could have specified that NASA buy Fairchild scopes, although I doubt the astronauts that landed on the moon would have been eager to climb into an Apollo capsule atop a Saturn rocket that was designed with a Fairchild scope.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

Without the government military inflated purchases, Tektronix probably would not have been able to survive. In fact, it was the inflated prices to government purchases that made Tek scopes too expensive for the average buyer. Small businesses were unable to buy this quality equipment, and as a result, either died in infancy - or never got started in the first place. This is reality like it or not.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Daniel Koller kaboomdk@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

With all due respect, the National Labs, like Brookhaven, do not have
*enough* money to do all the great research they are capable of.

At the risk of veering away from the topic of Tek, I note that
messages like this below tend to get under my skin. Realize that the
great developments in test and measurement instrumentation in the Post
War period were driven in large part by the Cold War, and were
*enabled* by the sort of basic research done at university, private
and government labs. The government was a HUGE customer of Tektronix.

And while we really did enjoy doing research at BNL, when we "took
beam", we worked our asses off in shifts 24/7. I assure you no tax
dollars were "wasted" in our endeavors.

Dan

On Monday, January 18, 2016 9:43 PM, "Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:

They obviously had too much money to play with. I hope they had fun.
I
sure
didn't while paying outrageous taxes.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, 'Tim Phillips'
tim@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
wrote:
--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247
------------------------------------
Posted by: Gary Robert Bosworth <grbosworth@...>
------------------------------------


Gary Robert Bosworth
 

Dennis:

Fortunately, in this country we have the freedom to disagree. We will
never know if more small businesses could have developed if equipment
prices were kept down. All I can say is that I was locked out of the
American dream of small business ownership because I was competing with big
companies and a government that had deep pockets and thought nothing of
crushing competition.




On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 10:24 PM, 'Dennis Tillman' dennis@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



Hi Gary,

I disagree.

From 1966 to 1969 worked for a 11,000 person division of a big company
building autopilots where I was in a lab with over 100 electronics
technicians. There were 65 Tek scopes on carts (a few 535s, lots of 545s,
and a few 547s, and a 575) and maybe 40 Fairchild scopes. The Fairchild
scopes were crap. Nobody wanted to get stuck with them. The company did
military (B-52) and commercial work (Concorde). I saved up for a year to
buy my first Tek scope. It was a brand new 50MHz 453. So mere mortals could
afford them although it was extremely rare that someone might have that
level of passion to start at the top.

After that I worked for several smaller companies. They all had Tek
scopes. In 1970 I went to work for a 50 person company that already had 5
Tek 560 scopes and a brand new (stunning!) 576 curve tracer which had just
been introduced. A year later I pestered them into buying their first 7000
series scope.

In 1976 I worked for another small company (60 people) with 4 Tek scopes.
That is when I bought my first 7000 scope (7704A). There was someone else
at that company that owned his own Tek scope as well.

From 2000 to 2006 I worked for a 30 person company. They had 5 Tek
lunchbox scopes and a 575 with the high current power supply accessory.

Companies large and small bought Tektronix test equipment. Size or cost
had nothing to do with it. Private individuals bought them too. There were
many companies selling less expensive scopes. I mentioned Fairchild, but
there were others such as Telequipment (which I used for a while at one
company - it was fine). Even HeathKit made a triggered scope suitable for
technicians to use. The often quoted statistic is that 90% of new companies
fail. You are the first one to suggest that some of those companies failed
because they could not afford the test equipment. It is more likely those
companies didn't make it for other reasons. There is no way to know.

Anyone can bid on a government contract. Tek had a worthy competitor in
HP. Competition kept costs down. HP equipment isn't cheap either. Are they
guilty of gouging the government too? Tektronix created several unique
products such as the first 1GHz scope (519), the first practical vacuum
tube curve tracer (570), an affordable transistor curve tracer (575), The
first plugin scope, the first 500MHz scope (7904), the first 1GHz scope
(7104), etc. Maybe Tektronix was so successful because they created the
highest quality leading edge instruments that companies needed to succeed.

If the government wanted to keep costs down they could have specified that
NASA buy Fairchild scopes, although I doubt the astronauts that landed on
the moon would have been eager to climb into an Apollo capsule atop a
Saturn rocket that was designed with a Fairchild scope.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Brookhaven 'wall-of-teks' link

Without the government military inflated purchases, Tektronix probably
would not have been able to survive. In fact, it was the inflated prices to
government purchases that made Tek scopes too expensive for the average
buyer. Small businesses were unable to buy this quality equipment, and as a
result, either died in infancy - or never got started in the first place.
This is reality like it or not.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Daniel Koller kaboomdk@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

With all due respect, the National Labs, like Brookhaven, do not have
*enough* money to do all the great research they are capable of.

At the risk of veering away from the topic of Tek, I note that
messages like this below tend to get under my skin. Realize that the
great developments in test and measurement instrumentation in the Post
War period were driven in large part by the Cold War, and were
*enabled* by the sort of basic research done at university, private
and government labs. The government was a HUGE customer of Tektronix.

And while we really did enjoy doing research at BNL, when we "took
beam", we worked our asses off in shifts 24/7. I assure you no tax
dollars were "wasted" in our endeavors.

Dan

On Monday, January 18, 2016 9:43 PM, "Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...> wrote:

They obviously had too much money to play with. I hope they had fun.
I
sure
didn't while paying outrageous taxes.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, 'Tim Phillips'
tim@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
wrote:
--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247
------------------------------------
Posted by: Gary Robert Bosworth <grbosworth@...>
------------------------------------




--
Gary Robert Bosworth
grbosworth@...
Tel: 310-317-2247


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Without the government military inflated purchases, Tektronix probably would not have been able to
survive. In fact, it was the inflated prices to government purchases that made Tek scopes too
expensive for the average buyer. Small businesses were unable to buy this quality equipment, and as
a result, either died in infancy - or never got started in the first place. This is reality like it
or not.
Bah - humbug!


Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

It has
always been that way and most intelligent people recognize this fact.
That's fighting talk!


Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

increase the selling cost
Manufacturing cost, or selling price?


Brian <brianclarke01@...>
 

So Gary,
Your assertion was mere bluster with no evidential support. I think it would more honest to say, “I will never know.”
Your view that ‘government thought nothing of crushing competition’ is a new angle. Again, I ask: where is your evidence?
That your firm failed suggests to me that you could have benefitted from some marketing skills.
Brian.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 5:33 PM, you said:

Fortunately, in this country we have the freedom to disagree. We will
never know if more small businesses could have developed if equipment
prices were kept down. All I can say is that I was locked out of the
American dream of small business ownership because I was competing with big
companies and a government that had deep pockets and thought nothing of
crushing competition.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]