Moving Tekscopes?


 

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.

Regards,
David Partridge


 

I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.
 
One can hope.
 
 
Tom
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

 

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.

Regards,
David Partridge


Ralph Hartwell <ralph_yg@...>
 

I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to blow
yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.


nabble.com ?


Knut <knut@...>
 

I subscribe to a number ofYahoo Groups on different topics and on one of them, a very active one, the owner got so p888888d offwit the Yahoo Neo that he decided to move to the free bbphp forum.

All of the existing Yahoo Group posts were moved to the new forum along with all the images, about 3000 and the pdf files are next.

So far the exercise took two weeks.

The benefit is a very easy to use forum - everything is very intuitive.
The search capability on the bbphp forum is much better than Yahoo ever was - it's instantaneous, a tiny fraction of a second and the search results seem to be accurate and complete with the serach words highlighted.
Also has a great search capability in the image gallery which was always an issue with Yahoo.

One can get email notification if someone responds to a post; right now it's just notification, one has to click on the link in the email to actually read the post.
That could possibly be enhanced to also show the message.

What will not work compared to Yahoo Groups is replying to a post directly via email which I rather liked.
That si really the only downside we have seen so far with the switch to bbphp - there are many upsides compared to Yahoo Groups, so we live with the fact that one needs to reply to posts in the forum rarther than by email.

Knut

PS - The Group that was moved is about G-Scale trains, now at

The Yahoo Group site is still up.
Of course there is a lso a cost involved in running a free bbphp forum - server space and a domain name.

------

On 2013-09-18, at 3:32 PM, Tom Miller wrote:

 

I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.
 
One can hope.
 
 
Tom
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

 

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.

Regards,
David Partridge




Dave / NR1DX
 

For the record
1) I am a huge fan of moving off Yahoo..and will be one of the first to sign on to a new location
2) I am NOT a fan of moving to a site without email reply capability
Dave
ArtekManuals

On 9/18/2013 2:47 PM, Knut wrote:
 

I subscribe to a number ofYahoo Groups on different topics and on one of them, a very active one, the owner got so p888888d offwit the Yahoo Neo that he decided to move to the free bbphp forum.


All of the existing Yahoo Group posts were moved to the new forum along with all the images, about 3000 and the pdf files are next.

So far the exercise took two weeks.

The benefit is a very easy to use forum - everything is very intuitive.
The search capability on the bbphp forum is much better than Yahoo ever was - it's instantaneous, a tiny fraction of a second and the search results seem to be accurate and complete with the serach words highlighted.
Also has a great search capability in the image gallery which was always an issue with Yahoo.

One can get email notification if someone responds to a post; right now it's just notification, one has to click on the link in the email to actually read the post.
That could possibly be enhanced to also show the message.

What will not work compared to Yahoo Groups is replying to a post directly via email which I rather liked.
That si really the only downside we have seen so far with the switch to bbphp - there are many upsides compared to Yahoo Groups, so we live with the fact that one needs to reply to posts in the forum rarther than by email.

Knut

PS - The Group that was moved is about G-Scale trains, now at

The Yahoo Group site is still up.
Of course there is a lso a cost involved in running a free bbphp forum - server space and a domain name.

------
On 2013-09-18, at 3:32 PM, Tom Miller wrote:

 

I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.
 
One can hope.
 
 
Tom
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

 

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.

Regards,
David Partridge





-- 
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com


Knut <knut@...>
 

I was concerned about that as well - no email reply capability which I liked and used - not so much on TekScopes but on other Yahoo Groups.

But that can also cause problem which I encountered a few times and that is when an email gets delayed.
I have had emails delayed by as much as a day, but if there is a delay of even ten or 15 minutes in a discussion, it can really confuse every one involved.
If one posts directly on the web site then the delay from reading a post and replying is essentially only the time to write the post.

It's always give and take.

Not sure if there is a regular forum with email reply - I only know of Yahoo Groups that has that capability.

Knut

----------------


On 2013-09-18, at 4:12 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:

 

For the record
1) I am a huge fan of moving off Yahoo..and will be one of the first to sign on to a new location
2) I am NOT a fan of moving to a site without email reply capability
Dave
ArtekManuals



 

I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file
archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into
a local mail client which can provide much better search support:

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html

There are scripts which can be used (or written) to web scrape Yahoo message forums. Yahoo obviously discourages this activity since they
would prefer that you stay within their walled prison.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:47:57 -0400, you wrote:

I subscribe to a number ofYahoo Groups on different topics and on one of them, a very active one, the owner got so p888888d offwit the Yahoo Neo that he decided to move to the free bbphp forum.

All of the existing Yahoo Group posts were moved to the new forum along with all the images, about 3000 and the pdf files are next.

So far the exercise took two weeks.

The benefit is a very easy to use forum - everything is very intuitive.
The search capability on the bbphp forum is much better than Yahoo ever was - it's instantaneous, a tiny fraction of a second and the search results seem to be accurate and complete with the serach words highlighted.
Also has a great search capability in the image gallery which was always an issue with Yahoo.

One can get email notification if someone responds to a post; right now it's just notification, one has to click on the link in the email to actually read the post.
That could possibly be enhanced to also show the message.

What will not work compared to Yahoo Groups is replying to a post directly via email which I rather liked.
That si really the only downside we have seen so far with the switch to bbphp - there are many upsides compared to Yahoo Groups, so we live with the fact that one needs to reply to posts in the forum rarther than by email.

Knut

PS - The Group that was moved is about G-Scale trains, now at
http://www.usatgscalegroup.com

The Yahoo Group site is still up.
Of course there is a lso a cost involved in running a free bbphp forum - server space and a domain name.

On 2013-09-18, at 3:32 PM, Tom Miller wrote:

I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.

One can hope.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: David C. Partridge
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.

Regards,
David Partridge


 

I agree. Web forums make for a nice backup to direct email capability but they are no substitute. This is especially the case for threaded
discussion support.

While I have not done an exhaustive search, I am not familiar with any forums that provide all of web access, file/picture storage, and
email.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:12:23 -0500, you wrote:

For the record
1) I am a huge fan of moving off Yahoo..and will be one of the first to
sign on to a new location
2) I am NOT a fan of moving to a site without email reply capability
Dave
ArtekManuals

On 9/18/2013 2:47 PM, Knut wrote:

I subscribe to a number ofYahoo Groups on different topics and on one
of them, a very active one, the owner got so p888888d offwit the Yahoo
Neo that he decided to move to the free bbphp forum.


All of the existing Yahoo Group posts were moved to the new forum
along with all the images, about 3000 and the pdf files are next.

So far the exercise took two weeks.

The benefit is a very easy to use forum - everything is very intuitive.
The search capability on the bbphp forum is much better than Yahoo
ever was - it's instantaneous, a tiny fraction of a second and the
search results seem to be accurate and complete with the serach words
highlighted.
Also has a great search capability in the image gallery which was
always an issue with Yahoo.

One can get email notification if someone responds to a post; right
now it's just notification, one has to click on the link in the email
to actually read the post.
That could possibly be enhanced to also show the message.

What will not work compared to Yahoo Groups is replying to a post
directly via email which I rather liked.
That si really the only downside we have seen so far with the switch
to bbphp - there are many upsides compared to Yahoo Groups, so we live
with the fact that one needs to reply to posts in the forum rarther
than by email.

Knut

PS - The Group that was moved is about G-Scale trains, now at
http://www.usatgscalegroup.com

The Yahoo Group site is still up.
Of course there is a lso a cost involved in running a free bbphp forum
- server space and a domain name.

------
On 2013-09-18, at 3:32 PM, Tom Miller wrote:


I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to
blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.
One can hope.
Tom

----- Original Message -----
*From:* David C. Partridge <mailto:david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk>
*To:* TekScopes@yahoogroups.com <mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
*Subject:* [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable
information in this list which I don't think any of us would like
to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they
don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've
posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will
provide forums with online access, and with subscription
capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to
upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of
"free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most
can't do what is needed.

Regards,
David Partridge


 

Yahoo's behavior in reguard to email reliability is the exception. From the difficulty in communicating current problems with their
customer support it is obvious that they do not care and do not care to care.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:25:58 -0400, you wrote:

I was concerned about that as well - no email reply capability which I liked and used - not so much on TekScopes but on other Yahoo Groups.

But that can also cause problem which I encountered a few times and that is when an email gets delayed.
I have had emails delayed by as much as a day, but if there is a delay of even ten or 15 minutes in a discussion, it can really confuse every one involved.
If one posts directly on the web site then the delay from reading a post and replying is essentially only the time to write the post.

It's always give and take.

Not sure if there is a regular forum with email reply - I only know of Yahoo Groups that has that capability.

Knut

On 2013-09-18, at 4:12 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:


For the record
1) I am a huge fan of moving off Yahoo..and will be one of the first to sign on to a new location
2) I am NOT a fan of moving to a site without email reply capability
Dave
ArtekManuals


Niall Sweeny <niall@...>
 

This is an interesting thread – from what I gather there is an opportunity here to make a really good group/forum hosting service that addresses all the concerns listed and probably a few that aren’t.  Most of the forums I see and use are still cumbersome and slow.  If the group consensus is that there things could be done better than even the existing alternatives to Yahoo I would consider investing time to build such a solution.  I build complex enterprise and ecommerce websites and hardware/software systems for a living so this is definitely within my skill set, I’ve just never imagined that there wasn’t already an amazing solution out there.  Once built It would then be possible to scrape all the existing threads and content from existing Yahoo groups as needed to hydrate the new system.  I figure it would take 6 months or so to get a new system stable enough so we could cut over.  What think you all?  Are there others with required skills that would be willing to help?
 
-Niall
 

From: David
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
 
 

I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file
archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into
a local mail client which can provide much better search support:

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html

There are scripts which can be used (or written) to web scrape Yahoo message forums. Yahoo obviously discourages this activity since they
would prefer that you stay within their walled prison.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:47:57 -0400, you wrote:

>I subscribe to a number ofYahoo Groups on different topics and on one of them, a very active one, the owner got so p888888d offwit the Yahoo Neo that he decided to move to the free bbphp forum.
>
>All of the existing Yahoo Group posts were moved to the new forum along with all the images, about 3000 and the pdf files are next.
>
>So far the exercise took two weeks.
>
>The benefit is a very easy to use forum - everything is very intuitive.
>The search capability on the bbphp forum is much better than Yahoo ever was - it's instantaneous, a tiny fraction of a second and the search results seem to be accurate and complete with the serach words highlighted.
>Also has a great search capability in the image gallery which was always an issue with Yahoo.
>
>One can get email notification if someone responds to a post; right now it's just notification, one has to click on the link in the email to actually read the post.
>That could possibly be enhanced to also show the message.
>
>What will not work compared to Yahoo Groups is replying to a post directly via email which I rather liked.
>That si really the only downside we have seen so far with the switch to bbphp - there are many upsides compared to Yahoo Groups, so we live with the fact that one needs to reply to posts in the forum rarther than by email.
>
>Knut
>
>PS - The Group that was moved is about G-Scale trains, now at
>http://www.usatgscalegroup.com
>
>The Yahoo Group site is still up.
>Of course there is a lso a cost involved in running a free bbphp forum - server space and a domain name.
>
>On 2013-09-18, at 3:32 PM, Tom Miller wrote:
>
>> I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.
>>
>> One can hope.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: David C. Partridge
>> To: TekScopes@...
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
>> Subject: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
>>
>> I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.
>>
>> It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.
>>
>> 1) Is this an idea that should be persued?
>>
>> 2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.
>>
>> Regards,
>> David Partridge

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6177 - Release Date: 09/18/13


Dave Emery
 

On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 04:03:00PM -0500, David wrote:

Yahoo's behavior in reguard to email reliability is the exception.
From the difficulty in communicating current problems with their
customer support it is obvious that they do not care and do not care to
care.
While I have no inside info, it sure looks to me that Yahoo
(which is under financial pressure and has new leadership) has decided
that the current email based groups ecosystem is a net liability they
would like to get rid of.

It certainly is true that those of us who mostly treat yahoo
groups as an old fashioned email reflector rather than an on line
forum/blog accessed through a web page interface DO (or rather CAN)
escape from the tracking and data collection about what we read and when
and where and almost all of the advertising by reading most messages
with old fashioned ASCII text based mail user agents (such as mutt).

This, alas, is strongly in OUR interest (more so than many more
"modern" types understand) but not at all in YAHOO's interest which gets
no direct revenue from us - either selling information about us or
serving us advertising. All we provide is occasional postings that
might attract other readers who mostly will see the ads and be tracked
with all the tracking tools.

So it stands to reason that Yahoo may strongly wish to close
down the email reflector aspect of groups...

Of course for many of us (especially us old timers from the
nascent net of the 70s and 80s) email still remains the preferred
mechanism for technical discussions AND the opportunity to archive it
ourselves a valuable and valued extra compared to web based forums that
often do not provide any easy mechanism to retrieve, archive, sort and
search, and forward on to others, the postings on your own machine - and
do that privately without necessarily giving Yahoo a record of what
specifically you might be interested in and searching for - something
you can readily do with email but not a weblog/forum.

I'd seriously hate to see these valuable technical groups turn
into weblogs/forums only with the content mostly just in possession of the
forum owner and subject to going away (or being edited) at his whim or
that of whoever can push him around including the forum provider and
various outside interests who can apply pressure (the gummint, the
various IP mafias, large companies and so forth). Email does allow me
to save my own copies of what interests me - which cannot suddenly
disappear one day.

And I'd personally hate to have to format and write all my
postings through a random web page based editing system (or try to cut
and paste all the time from text edited externally) ... but I may be a
in a minority here.

But unfortunately it sure looks like Yahoo sees this weblog only
world as the best way to monetize the groups ecosystem... and alas
it may become necessary for the folks who really want the service of
email reflectors free of intrusive advertising and tracking to pony
up and pay something to provide the service ourselves rather than expecting
it to be entirely free and yet also well run and free of spam and
generally efficient and usable.

--
Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, die@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493
"An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten
'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in
celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either."


 

I think the first thing that need be determined is what the financial support model will be. Would it be a subscription based service, advertising funded, or is there some company that would support a site? Or a combination? Other?
 
The one thing we have now that was not in the past is very cheap storage. 
 
I wonder if we could get a few terabytes on NSA's server farm in Iowa (is that where it is)?
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: David
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

 

I agree. Web forums make for a nice backup to direct email capability but they are no substitute. This is especially the case for threaded
discussion support.

While I have not done an exhaustive search, I am not familiar with any forums that provide all of web access, file/picture storage, and
email.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 15:12:23 -0500, you wrote:

>For the record
>1) I am a huge fan of moving off Yahoo..and will be one of the first to
>sign on to a new location
>2) I am NOT a fan of moving to a site without email reply capability
>Dave
>ArtekManuals
>
>On 9/18/2013 2:47 PM, Knut wrote:
>>
>> I subscribe to a number ofYahoo Groups on different topics and on one
>> of them, a very active one, the owner got so p888888d offwit the Yahoo
>> Neo that he decided to move to the free bbphp forum.
>>
>>
>> All of the existing Yahoo Group posts were moved to the new forum
>> along with all the images, about 3000 and the pdf files are next.
>>
>> So far the exercise took two weeks.
>>
>> The benefit is a very easy to use forum - everything is very intuitive.
>> The search capability on the bbphp forum is much better than Yahoo
>> ever was - it's instantaneous, a tiny fraction of a second and the
>> search results seem to be accurate and complete with the serach words
>> highlighted.
>> Also has a great search capability in the image gallery which was
>> always an issue with Yahoo.
>>
>> One can get email notification if someone responds to a post; right
>> now it's just notification, one has to click on the link in the email
>> to actually read the post.
>> That could possibly be enhanced to also show the message.
>>
>> What will not work compared to Yahoo Groups is replying to a post
>> directly via email which I rather liked.
>> That si really the only downside we have seen so far with the switch
>> to bbphp - there are many upsides compared to Yahoo Groups, so we live
>> with the fact that one needs to reply to posts in the forum rarther
>> than by email.
>>
>> Knut
>>
>> PS - The Group that was moved is about G-Scale trains, now at
>> http://www.usatgscalegroup.com
>>
>> The Yahoo Group site is still up.
>> Of course there is a lso a cost involved in running a free bbphp forum
>> - server space and a domain name.
>>
>> ------
>> On 2013-09-18, at 3:32 PM, Tom Miller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I am completely surprised that no one has taken this opportunity to
>>> blow yahoo away and provide a useful service like groups.
>>> One can hope.
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* David C. Partridge
>>> *To:* TekScopes@...
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:25 PM
>>> *Subject:* [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
>>>
>>> I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.
>>>
>>> It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable
>>> information in this list which I don't think any of us would like
>>> to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they
>>> don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've
>>> posted here.
>>>
>>> 1) Is this an idea that should be persued?
>>>
>>> 2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will
>>> provide forums with online access, and with subscription
>>> capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to
>>> upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of
>>> "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most
>>> can't do what is needed.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> David Partridge


teamlarryohio
 

David <davidwhess@gmail.com> wrote:
I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file
archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into
a local mail client which can provide much better search support:
...and each of those two has a support staff of exactly one. It
certainly can be done. How is it that Y! is still around?
-ls-


 

Many years ago I did the web scraping procedure to transfer a Yahoo forum that I participated in to a phpbb forum which I hosted locally for
several years so I am somewhat familiar with how it is done. I only mentioned it here as an example of how the existing content of
TekScopes would not necessarily have to be lost.

I am doing a search now for suitable forums that support both web and email access but the picking appear to be slim. Newer Internet users
in general do not understand email and threaded discussions so there is not a lot of overlap.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 14:27:52 -0700, you wrote:

This is an interesting thread – from what I gather there is an opportunity here to make a really good group/forum hosting service that addresses all the concerns listed and probably a few that aren’t. Most of the forums I see and use are still cumbersome and slow. If the group consensus is that there things could be done better than even the existing alternatives to Yahoo I would consider investing time to build such a solution. I build complex enterprise and ecommerce websites and hardware/software systems for a living so this is definitely within my skill set, I’ve just never imagined that there wasn’t already an amazing solution out there. Once built It would then be possible to scrape all the existing threads and content from existing Yahoo groups as needed to hydrate the new system. I figure it would take 6 months or so to get a new system stable enough so we could cut over. What think you all? Are there others with required skills that would be willing to help?

-Niall

From: David
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:57 PM
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?


I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file
archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into
a local mail client which can provide much better search support:

https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
http://lists.cibolo.us/mailman/listinfo

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/index.html

There are scripts which can be used (or written) to web scrape Yahoo message forums. Yahoo obviously discourages this activity since they
would prefer that you stay within their walled prison.


 

On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 17:53:41 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

David <davidwhess@gmail.com> wrote:
I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file
archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into
a local mail client which can provide much better search support:
...and each of those two has a support staff of exactly one. It
certainly can be done. How is it that Y! is still around?
-ls-
I hosted an entire phpbb based system with content scraped from Yahoo for several years and I was the only support staff. The only thing it
lacked was email reflection.

As far as how Yahoo can have such poor service and still be around, quantity has a quality all to its own.


 

I belong to a few paid forum sites.  They have many advantages but one large advantage.  New members are wary to pay their fair share of operating costs.  These costs can be very high when its necessary to upgrade equipment/software.  There is always the fear that the next upgrade will wipe out the subscription base.
 
This being said, I am amazed that someone like Facebook or Twitter hasnt found a way to make money from groups like ours. 

From: "larrys@..."
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
 
David wrote:
> I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file
> archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into
> a local mail client which can provide much better search support:

...and each of those two has a support staff of exactly one. It
certainly can be done. How is it that Y! is still around?
-ls-


Daniel Koller
 

 Hello,
  I figured I would chime in here, since you are not the only one. As it is now, I have personal e-mail, work e-mail and yahoo groups (sent to a single yahoo email).  If I then had to check *another* web page, I would probably not have enough time and would stop doing it.  So, e-mail is DEFINITELY the preferred way for me to retrieve my content.  I also argue that 10 fingers are much better than a single mouse, so manipulating messages from the keyboard is much more efficient than having to click, drag, click, wait for a screen refresh, find a new box, click....

  I'm not an "old timer" by definition of most of the folks here probably, especially those who cut their teeth on tube circuitry, but I did once have a BITNET account, so from that point of view, I guess I am.  I most certainly miss the old USENET groups and the simplicity of accessing them.

  Another consideration is I would normally just go with the flow, but lately, Yahoo mail has been really slow - slow to load, slow to send, slow to deliver.  I've noted that some of my posts arrive at the HP group a full day after the Tek group.  

  So, if there is some momentum towards moving the groups to another more reliable site, I'm happy to add to the momentum.

  Dan



From: David I. Emery
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

 
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 04:03:00PM -0500, David wrote:
....
Of course for many of us (especially us old timers from the
nascent net of the 70s and 80s) email still remains the preferred
mechanism for technical discussions AND the opportunity to archive it
ourselves a valuable and valued extra compared to web based forums that
often do not provide any easy mechanism to retrieve, archive, sort and
search, and forward on to others, the postings on your own machine - and
do that privately without necessarily giving Yahoo a record of what
specifically you might be interested in and searching for - something
you can readily do with email but not a weblog/forum.

I'd seriously hate to see these valuable technical groups turn
into weblogs/forums only with the content mostly just in possession of the
forum owner and subject to going away (or being edited) at his whim or
that of whoever can push him around including the forum provider and
various outside interests who can apply pressure (the gummint, the
various IP mafias, large companies and so forth). Email does allow me
to save my own copies of what interests me - which cannot suddenly
disappear one day.


 

OOPS, I meant "They have many advantages but one large DISADVANTAGE."

From: machine guy
To: "TekScopes@..."
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
 
I belong to a few paid forum sites.  They have many advantages but one large advantage.  New members are wary to pay their fair share of operating costs.  These costs can be very high when its necessary to upgrade equipment/software.  There is always the fear that the next upgrade will wipe out the subscription base.
 
This being said, I am amazed that someone like Facebook or Twitter hasnt found a way to make money from groups like ours. 

From: "larrys@..."
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
 
David wrote: > I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file > archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into > a local mail client which can provide much better search support: ...and each of those two has a support staff of exactly one. It certainly can be done. How is it that Y! is still around? -ls-


Mark Richards
 

On 09/18/2013 15:25, David C. Partridge wrote:
 

I for one am getting royally ****ed off with Yahoo.

It has to be recognised that there's a lot of valuable information in this list which I don't think any of us would like to loose. I've just read Yahoo's "Terms of Service", and they don't appear to give Yahoo proprietary rights to the data we've posted here.

1) Is this an idea that should be persued?

What is the idea?


2) Does anyone know of a hosting service or software that will provide forums with online access, and with subscription capability (i.e. mail reflector) to which it would be possible to upload the existing archived data etc.? I've found number of "free" forum hosting services, but I'm fairly sure that most can't do what is needed.

It's likely anything you do, and I'd particularly lean towards something like mailman, will cost.  Unless you can find someone with the generosity of space and time who would host it for zero.

Maybe staying with the yahoos is a trade off.. cost versus control?

/m


 


Has anyone grabbed all the content from Tekscopes, etc just in case?
 
Be a shame if that history was lost.
 
 
Tom
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?

 

OOPS, I meant "They have many advantages but one large DISADVANTAGE."

From: machine guy <machineguy59@...>
To: "TekScopes@..." <TekScopes@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
 
I belong to a few paid forum sites.  They have many advantages but one large advantage.  New members are wary to pay their fair share of operating costs.  These costs can be very high when its necessary to upgrade equipment/software.  There is always the fear that the next upgrade will wipe out the subscription base.
 
This being said, I am amazed that someone like Facebook or Twitter hasnt found a way to make money from groups like ours. 

From: "larrys@..."
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Moving Tekscopes?
 
David wrote: > I subscribe to several technical groups hosted on either febo.com or cibolo.us. Both use Mailman but there is no inherent support for file > archives, images, or a web interface except for administration. On the other hand the archives can be searched and downloaded directly into > a local mail client which can provide much better search support: ...and each of those two has a support staff of exactly one. It certainly can be done. How is it that Y! is still around? -ls-