Topics

Recommend for a young student

toady3040
 

Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?

Thanks for your advice here

Tom Miller <tmiller@...>
 

The 465 - 100 MHz, 475 - 200 MHz, or 485 - 350 MHz are all very good scopes for the
money. Don't forget some good probes that match the bandwidth of the scope you choose.
 
My most memorable Xmas present was an EICO 425 when I was 12 in 1959.
 
My first use of a Tek scope was a 545A in 1966.
 
Good luck,
 
Tom
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: toady3040
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 12:30 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student

 

Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?

Thanks for your advice here


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3307 - Release Date: 12/10/10

ditter2
 

--- In TekScopes@..., "toady3040" <todd@...> wrote:

Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?

Thanks for your advice here
There are a lot of measurements you can make without digital storage. 100 MHz is more than adequate for anything you are likely able to probe.

I used to recommend 465 or 7603, but recently I have seen a lot of 100 MHz class 22xx and 23xx scopes going through e-pay at reasonable prices. Some will argue that you should stick with older scopes, before Tek made ICs for serviceability reasons. However….

The "newer" 22xx series are more highly integrated, having fewer parts and running cooler. They are actually more reliable than some of the older counterparts. Tek sold a lot of these in school labs, where they were used and abused on a daily basis.

As another member wrote, be sure to get a good set of /10 probes for it. In many cases it is cheaper to spend a bit more for a scope that includes the compatible probes than to try to buy them after you buy the scope.

- Steve

Artekmedia <manuals@...>
 

I am assuming we are talking 12  years or older if so  I would concur with Steve a 22xx series scope is a good place to start. Don't forget to get a good set of matching probes .... other wise it is like getting an really cool RC Car with no batteries :-)

Dave

On 12/11/2010 1:33 AM, Steve wrote:
 

--- In TekScopes@..., "toady3040" wrote:
>
> Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?
>
> Thanks for your advice here
>

There are a lot of measurements you can make without digital storage. 100 MHz is more than adequate for anything you are likely able to probe.

I used to recommend 465 or 7603, but recently I have seen a lot of 100 MHz class 22xx and 23xx scopes going through e-pay at reasonable prices. Some will argue that you should stick with older scopes, before Tek made ICs for serviceability reasons. However….

The "newer" 22xx series are more highly integrated, having fewer parts and running cooler. They are actually more reliable than some of the older counterparts. Tek sold a lot of these in school labs, where they were used and abused on a daily basis.

As another member wrote, be sure to get a good set of /10 probes for it. In many cases it is cheaper to spend a bit more for a scope that includes the compatible probes than to try to buy them after you buy the scope.

- Steve


-- 
Dave & Lynn Henderson
Manuals@...
www.Artekmedia.com
PO Box 175
Welch,MN 55089

J. L. Trantham
 

I have a TEK 2235 and TEK 485.  My preference is the 485.  It is relatively compact, 350 MHz, dual trace, X-Y display option, delayed sweep options (as does the 2235 except only 100 MHz) and uses mostly discrete components which makes it easy for me to repair.  The most common problem is shorted tantalum caps on the power rails and relatively easy to find and fix.  Also, has a rack mount option.  Accommodates X1, X10 and X100 probes. 
 
My 2235 died and I was able to chase down the problem to a blown diode in the power supply area but I am not sure I would be able to find and fix much else without someone on this list looking over my shoulder.
 
Joe
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf Of Artekmedia
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:55 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Recommend for a young student

 

I am assuming we are talking 12  years or older if so  I would concur with Steve a 22xx series scope is a good place to start. Don't forget to get a good set of matching probes .... other wise it is like getting an really cool RC Car with no batteries :-)

Dave

On 12/11/2010 1:33 AM, Steve wrote:

 

--- In TekScopes@..., "toady3040" wrote:
>
> Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?
>
> Thanks for your advice here
>

There are a lot of measurements you can make without digital storage. 100 MHz is more than adequate for anything you are likely able to probe.

I used to recommend 465 or 7603, but recently I have seen a lot of 100 MHz class 22xx and 23xx scopes going through e-pay at reasonable prices. Some will argue that you should stick with older scopes, before Tek made ICs for serviceability reasons. However….

The "newer" 22xx series are more highly integrated, having fewer parts and running cooler. They are actually more reliable than some of the older counterparts. Tek sold a lot of these in school labs, where they were used and abused on a daily basis.

As another member wrote, be sure to get a good set of /10 probes for it. In many cases it is cheaper to spend a bit more for a scope that includes the compatible probes than to try to buy them after you buy the scope.

- Steve


--
Dave & Lynn Henderson
Manuals@...
www.Artekmedia.com
PO Box 175
Welch,MN 55089

jtjewell83
 

I'd like the 2246A. A younger person would apprieciate the SmartCursors.

There's a very nice looking one on eBay now, item 120656822913, that looks to be nearly NOS. It's "2246" in the auction title, but zooming in on the rear label, I'm pretty sure its a "2246MODA" (i.e., 2246A). Now at $120 with 32 bids. Ends late tommorrow. $25 shipping. I have no association with the seller.

Jimmy J.

jmassen418a@...
 

Hi,
 
I have a 2246A on my bench top and agree with what you day about it, it is very nice. Calculators are very nice too but I would hope that students learn the basics. Perhaps the first scope should be an older one that is a bit more manual.
 
jerry



-----Original Message-----
From: jtjewell83
To: TekScopes
Sent: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 9:06 am
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: Recommend for a young student

 
I'd like the 2246A. A younger person would apprieciate the SmartCursors.

There's a very nice looking one on eBay now, item 120656822913, that looks to be nearly NOS. It's "2246" in the auction title, but zooming in on the rear label, I'm pretty sure its a "2246MODA" (i.e., 2246A). Now at $120 with 32 bids. Ends late tommorrow. $25 shipping. I have no association with the seller.

Jimmy J.

Bernice Loui <rupunzels_window@...>
 

Tek 485 attenuators can be fragile.. Back in the day, a friend who worked at a Cal Lab would tell me many horror stories about 485 attenuators. Many of the problems centered around the 50 ohm section.


Bernice


--- On Sat, 12/11/10, J. L. Trantham wrote:

From: J. L. Trantham
Subject: RE: [TekScopes] Re: Recommend for a young student
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 1:46 PM

 

I have a TEK 2235 and TEK 485.  My preference is the 485.  It is relatively compact, 350 MHz, dual trace, X-Y display option, delayed sweep options (as does the 2235 except only 100 MHz) and uses mostly discrete components which makes it easy for me to repair.  The most common problem is shorted tantalum caps on the power rails and relatively easy to find and fix.  Also, has a rack mount option.  Accommodates X1, X10 and X100 probes. 
 
My 2235 died and I was able to chase down the problem to a blown diode in the power supply area but I am not sure I would be able to find and fix much else without someone on this list looking over my shoulder.
 
Joe

Bernice Loui <rupunzels_window@...>
 

Of the 400 series Tek portables, my all time favorite is the 475, not that 475A. Next would be the 465 these were the industry work-horse portable that were used everywhere and well proven.

Or a 7603, 7704A if real estate allows.

IMO, it is better to get a less automated scope as a learning tool as it tends to help understand waveform measurement basics. There is much that can be seen real time and these observations skills seems to be lost with many of the newer digital/measurement automated scopes.

Get good probes, cheap ones are awful.

100 Mhz is plenty for most work, but it really depends on what you are working on.

Newer is not always better. Those older Tek scopes were well built, designed to be repaired and functions very well indeed.


Bernice

--- On Sat, 12/11/10, toady3040 <todd@...> wrote:

From: toady3040 <todd@...>
Subject: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 5:30 AM

Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?



Thanks for your advice here

G. K. <glkinst@...>
 

My choice would be a TM500 setup with a scope, power supply, sine wave or function generator, and DVM plug-ins. That's all of the test equipment you need to get started learning electronic circuit design, and it does not take-up much bench space.
George


From: Bernice Loui
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 9:32:08 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student


Of the 400 series Tek portables, my all time favorite is the 475, not that 475A. Next would be the 465 these were the industry work-horse portable that were used everywhere and well proven.

Or a 7603, 7704A if real estate allows.

IMO, it is better to get a less automated scope as a learning tool as it tends to help understand waveform measurement basics. There is much that can be seen real time and these observations skills seems to be lost with many of the newer digital/measurement automated scopes.

Get good probes, cheap ones are awful.

100 Mhz is plenty for most work, but it really depends on what you are working on.

Newer is not always better. Those older Tek scopes were well built, designed to be repaired and functions very well indeed. 


Bernice


--- On Sat, 12/11/10, toady3040 <todd@...> wrote:

From: toady3040 <todd@...>
Subject: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 5:30 AM

      Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?



Thanks for your advice here




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Tom Miller <tmiller@...>
 

I might suggest getting a good DVM such as a Fluke 87 or so. Whenever I work on
something, that is the first piece of test equipment that comes out. Then, you cant
go wrong with a 475 and two good probes.
 
Bernice, what is your objection to the 475A? I don't have one and just wonder.
 
The old 453 can be had for less than $50 and are easily maintained. Be sure to get
the one without the tube front end. I bet most modern digital systems come down to
finding bad power supply sections. You just need to see stuff in the < 50 MHz range.
 
The very high speed digital scopes are needed in the design of GHz+ systems and I
doubt a teenager will be involved with that. Let the university buy that stuff. :)
 
 
Anyway, good luck. Encourage that interest as much as you can.
 
Tom
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student

 


Of the 400 series Tek portables, my all time favorite is the 475, not that 475A. Next would be the 465 these were the industry work-horse portable that were used everywhere and well proven.

Or a 7603, 7704A if real estate allows.

IMO, it is better to get a less automated scope as a learning tool as it tends to help understand waveform measurement basics. There is much that can be seen real time and these observations skills seems to be lost with many of the newer digital/measurement automated scopes.

Get good probes, cheap ones are awful.

100 Mhz is plenty for most work, but it really depends on what you are working on.

Newer is not always better. Those older Tek scopes were well built, designed to be repaired and functions very well indeed.

Bernice


--- On Sat, 12/11/10, toady3040 <todd@...> wrote:

From: toady3040 <todd@...>
Subject: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 5:30 AM

Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster. I see good deals on 465, 453 series but would appreciate your Tek savy's input for a kid who will be probably be working more with digital - which is beyond my scope (pun intended) Should I shop for a storage scope? is 60mhz enough BW?

Thanks for your advice here


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3309 - Release Date: 12/11/10

widgethunter
 

In a message dated 12/10/2010 9:30:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, todd@... writes:
Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster.
 
Where budget is a consideration the 2245A is a great choice. 100mHz, 2+2 ch, GREAT user interface, readouts for basics only.
 
I found the readouts to be a great learning aid, kinda like a practice test allowing a student to compare his own observations with an accurate reference - RIGHT NOW - which is HUGE for the current crop of humanoids. Attention spans have become much shorter since the days of Eico kit scopes.
 
Probes!
 
Have fun - wish my daughter were interested...
Bernd Schroder
 
 

Paul Amaranth
 

I'd agree with Bernice with the caveat that i prefer my 465/DM40 over
a 7904 w onscreen readouts when using the delayed sweep function. It's
just easier (for me) to read the LED display on the DM40.

You can also find them dirt cheap. I paid $50 for mine with a couple of
dead filter caps. That scope was my best deal ever.

With the mainframe, you can always find a curve tracer plugin, that's great
for learning about semiconductors. Being able to swap out the plugins is
handy too. But, after you collect a bunch of plugins, you probably could
have bought a digital scope with the money you spent. I have around $400
into my (free) 7904, between repair items and plugins.

I also have a 453 that I still use on my bench. I like the feel of the
controls too much to part with it.

On the other side of the spectrum, last week I saw a TDS460A from ChipXS (Tek ebay
surplus) go for $510.

Choices, choices ...

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 09:32:08AM -0800, Bernice Loui wrote:

Of the 400 series Tek portables, my all time favorite is the 475, not that 475A. Next would be the 465 these were the industry work-horse portable that were used everywhere and well proven.

Or a 7603, 7704A if real estate allows.

IMO, it is better to get a less automated scope as a learning tool as it tends to help understand waveform measurement basics. There is much that can be seen real time and these observations skills seems to be lost with many of the newer digital/measurement automated scopes.

Get good probes, cheap ones are awful.

100 Mhz is plenty for most work, but it really depends on what you are working on.

Newer is not always better. Those older Tek scopes were well built, designed to be repaired and functions very well indeed.


Bernice

--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Rochester MI, USA
Aurora Group, Inc. | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix & Windows

ken chalfant
 

I see value in a scope that is repairable.  When I was starting out virtually everything was repairable (yes with tubes) unless it was military gear and the power transformer was fried.  But I sure learned a lot buying broken equipment which I had to repair before I could use.  I know - its a different world - but there is still value in basic trouble-shooting skills.

I might make one other suggestion.

When you look through eBay you'll notice that most older logic analyzers don't sell at all or if they do not for very much.  If this student is interested in digital logic and is going to start hooking glue and counters and such together if you could find an old HP 1610 or 1630 that had pods and grippers for a few bucks that would (IMHO) be a fantastic learning tool.

I just hope there's a bright future in America for him and all the young people who are technically inclined!

Ken

On 11Dec, 2010, at 11:12 AM, tubesnthings@... wrote:

 

In a message dated 12/10/2010 9:30:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, todd@... writes:
Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster.
 
Where budget is a consideration the 2245A is a great choice. 100mHz, 2+2 ch, GREAT user interface, readouts for basics only.
 
I found the readouts to be a great learning aid, kinda like a practice test allowing a student to compare his own observations with an accurate reference - RIGHT NOW - which is HUGE for the current crop of humanoids. Attention spans have become much shorter since the days of Eico kit scopes.
 
Probes!
 
Have fun - wish my daughter were interested...
Bernd Schroder
 
 


sbirdasn <sbirdasn@...>
 

My recommendations:

*Any* Tek 100 MHz or better analog scope is a fine way to go, and will be good enough for most hobbyist R&D, including dabbling in microprocessor based projects. I consider dual sweep to be a must-have feature for any scope.

Old school, I'd say 465B.

Any 223x scope is good, but I recommend 2235/6 in the A versions since they have trigger filtering added over the earlier non-A models (or get the Military version - 2235 AN/USM-488).

If you can swing it, the 2232 is a great 100 MHz Analog/DSO. Fully analog with usable DSO functionality to rated bandwidth (100 MHz sampling & 10 nS glitch capture). The on-screen annotations are a nice confidence builder. Even without the communications card, the DSO makes digicam pictures for school lab book notes a snap.

But my all-time favorite is the 2236A. I love that scope! The integrated CTM/DMM is really great. Counter functions to full rated bandwidth. If you can trigger it, you can measure it. And the CH1 voltage functions along with side panel DMM is a real bench space saver, and very handy.

All controls are on the front panel- nothing hidden, no menus, all in plain view. Push a button or two and you go from say frequency, to volts, to Ohms, then back to timing functions with ease. The 5000-count DMM has 0.01 Ohm resolution, so tracking down shorts is on par with a good (Fluke) 4-1/2 digit DMM costing $100's itself. All in the space of a single bench instrument.

Not to preclude having a hand-held/bench DMM as a basic electronics bench requirement. But now you can use the DMM for current, while monitoring voltage with the scope and seeing the ripple too.

I think the 2236/A is probably the most capable 100 MHz scope Tektronix made until the 224x series finally arrived. For its bandwidth/price, I think it can hold its own against the lab grade scopes like the 2445/65's feature for feature even when loaded with options.

All of the above being said, I've spent more on my probes than I did for my scopes. ;) But then, I'm picky. I insist on waveform fidelity along with good scope probe goodies that lower the frustration/hassle factor. Take good care of them, they'll last a very long time.

Comments invited.

Sbirdasn.

Dave Casey <dcasey@...>
 

I second the logic analyzer notion. There is a lot to be learned from DIP packaged 7400 series chips, things that the universities have lately taken to teaching with HDL and FPGAs. The new stuff has its place, but I still like the old ways. When opening up my 2440 sometime back for troubleshooting, I got a warm fuzzy from all those PDIPs sitting in nice little rows. They're cheap, they're replaceable, and they're easily probed.
I got a working HP 1650A with pods, DIP grabbers, and the boot disk for $92 delivered. It came in handy on the 2440 and something similar would be great for probing anything built on a breadboard out of discrete chips.
The best lesson plan for such a thing would be to give them the chips, let them design something and wire it up, and use the analyzer to figure out what's wrong when it doesn't work. You can do the same thing for next to nothing with HDL and a computer, but for some people the real thing is a better teacher. It's good to get your hands on something other than a keyboard once in awhile.
 
Dave Casey
Sent from my PC

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student

 

I see value in a scope that is repairable.  When I was starting out virtually everything was repairable (yes with tubes) unless it was military gear and the power transformer was fried.  But I sure learned a lot buying broken equipment which I had to repair before I could use.  I know - its a different world - but there is still value in basic trouble-shooting skills.

I might make one other suggestion.

When you look through eBay you'll notice that most older logic analyzers don't sell at all or if they do not for very much.  If this student is interested in digital logic and is going to start hooking glue and counters and such together if you could find an old HP 1610 or 1630 that had pods and grippers for a few bucks that would (IMHO) be a fantastic learning tool.

I just hope there's a bright future in America for him and all the young people who are technically inclined!

Ken

On 11Dec, 2010, at 11:12 AM, tubesnthings@... wrote:

 

In a message dated 12/10/2010 9:30:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, todd@... writes:
Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster.
 
Where budget is a consideration the 2245A is a great choice. 100mHz, 2+2 ch, GREAT user interface, readouts for basics only.
 
I found the readouts to be a great learning aid, kinda like a practice test allowing a student to compare his own observations with an accurate reference - RIGHT NOW - which is HUGE for the current crop of humanoids. Attention spans have become much shorter since the days of Eico kit scopes.
 
Probes!
 
Have fun - wish my daughter were interested...
Bernd Schroder
 
 


ebayatessnh
 

I would go with the 465, and stay away from analog storage 'scopes and older digital storage 'scopes. When I started my business 15 years ago, a 465 was all I had, and debugged digital video streams quite successfully. It is easy to use for basic measurements, but also has delayed sweep and other features that allow a newbie to learn and grow.

My opinion is that no one should use a digital 'scope until they are proficient at using an analog one. The goes with my general measurement philosophy of "Don't trust any measurement you can't explain in a half page of equations until you know the characteristics of the signal that you are looking at."

Low end, and older digital storage 'scope are very bad for teaching. They under sample, and create lots of artifact displays that are not intuitively linked to the signal being measured. The storage and single sweep capabilities are very limited. When it is time to upgrade the 465, jump to a modern digital 'scope. I own 15 or 20 'scope of various vintage (from 10 MHz to 1GHz) , and the TDS30xx series is still my favorite. However for the money, even the cheap Rigols have good basic capabilities.

Analog storage 'scopes are very difficult to use. They have too many settings, and take lots of time to set up. The results are usually mediocre at best, unless the person running the 'scope has years of experience with the particular model. 99.9 % of the measurements that you can make on a analog storage 'scope can be made faster and better on a modern digital 'scope. The best place for an analog storage 'scope is a museum.

jim tallman <jimTallman@...>
 

Hi all,
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but I am new to this group.

We designed the TDS200 family specifically  for the education market.  It is a simpler,  cheaper scope, available in 60MHz, ???? and 100MHz versions.  60 MHz model  was MSRP at $999.  It is monochrome.  Hardware is the same on all three.  Bandwidth is a calibration step.  I have seen them at Frys.

I believe the same engineering group, with Leif R as SW project lead, also designed the TDS2000 (color), but I went to the video group and did not work on that model.  Dunno it's price/value ratio.  We also did the TDS3000 but they are more expensive.

jim


--- On Sat, 12/11/10, Ken Chalfant wrote:

From: Ken Chalfant
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Recommend for a young student
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 12:21 PM

 

I see value in a scope that is repairable.  When I was starting out virtually everything was repairable (yes with tubes) unless it was military gear and the power transformer was fried.  But I sure learned a lot buying broken equipment which I had to repair before I could use.  I know - its a different world - but there is still value in basic trouble-shooting skills.

I might make one other suggestion.

When you look through eBay you'll notice that most older logic analyzers don't sell at all or if they do not for very much.  If this student is interested in digital logic and is going to start hooking glue and counters and such together if you could find an old HP 1610 or 1630 that had pods and grippers for a few bucks that would (IMHO) be a fantastic learning tool.

I just hope there's a bright future in America for him and all the young people who are technically inclined!

Ken

On 11Dec, 2010, at 11:12 AM, tubesnthings@... wrote:

 

In a message dated 12/10/2010 9:30:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, todd@... writes:
Thinking about picking up a used scope for a highly motivated and brilliant youngster.
 
Where budget is a consideration the 2245A is a great choice. 100mHz, 2+2 ch, GREAT user interface, readouts for basics only.
 
I found the readouts to be a great learning aid, kinda like a practice test allowing a student to compare his own observations with an accurate reference - RIGHT NOW - which is HUGE for the current crop of humanoids. Attention spans have become much shorter since the days of Eico kit scopes.
 
Probes!
 
Have fun - wish my daughter were interested...
Bernd Schroder
 
 



ditter2
 

--- In TekScopes@..., jim tallman <jimTallman@...> wrote:

Hi all,Sorry if this has been mentioned, but I am new to this group.
We designed the TDS200 family specifically  for the education market.  It is a simpler,  cheaper scope, available in 60MHz, ???? and 100MHz versions.  60 MHz model  was MSRP at $999.  It is monochrome.  Hardware is the same on all three.  Bandwidth is a calibration step.  I have seen them at Frys.
I believe the same engineering group, with Leif R as SW project lead, also designed the TDS2000 (color), but I went to the video group and did not work on that model.  Dunno it's price/value ratio.  We also did the TDS3000 but they are more expensive.
jim

While $1000 is within the budget of many educational institutions, it is generally not in the range of an individual. You are not going to get to a reasonable cost with a digital scope.

Likewise, suggestions of 2445A, 2465, and even 485 are not likely to be within a reasonable price range for a young student.

As several others and I have commented, there has been a large number of working 100 MHz analog scopes going through e-pay lately. With patience and careful shopping, you can score a 2246 or similar model with probes in the $150 range. These are solid instruments, with simple, intuitive front panels. The low parts count makes them reliable.

Yes it is true that the older scopes used fewer Tek made parts, and were maintainable. However, because of the high parts count and higher operating temperatures, the likelihood that they will need repair is also higher. While we "old farts" enjoy studying classic Tek scope designs to repair them, few young teens just getting into electronics would be motivated enough to dig into a dead 475 and breathe life back into it. If we, as a society, are lucky enough to find a teen who actually is inclined to pursue electronics as a hobby over spending (wasting) time on his or her X-box 360, lets give them a scope that is likely to work as a tool from the start and not be a project in itself.

- Steve

stefan_trethan
 

Either get a cheap analog scope, or a cheap digital one, perhaps a
handheld model since they can be much cheaper and good enough for a
lot of stuff. A desireable nice Tek scope really add little in terms
of things a student can do with it.

I found this advice difficult to give (this is the fifth draft)
because it is so different to what I did (my first scope was a 7633).

By the way the TDS200 series was excellent in education, but even now
they rarely go for much less than $500.

ST

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Steve <ditter2@...> wrote:
--- In TekScopes@..., jim tallman <jimTallman@...> wrote:

Hi all,Sorry if this has been mentioned, but I am new to this group.
We designed the TDS200 family specifically  for the education market.  It is a simpler,  cheaper scope, available in 60MHz, ???? and 100MHz versions.  60 MHz model  was MSRP at $999.  It is monochrome.  Hardware is the same on all three.  Bandwidth is a calibration step.  I have seen them at Frys.
I believe the same engineering group, with Leif R as SW project lead, also designed the TDS2000 (color), but I went to the video group and did not work on that model.  Dunno it's price/value ratio.  We also did the TDS3000 but they are more expensive.
jim

While $1000 is within the budget of many educational institutions, it is generally not in the range of an individual.  You are not going to get to a reasonable cost with a digital scope.

Likewise, suggestions of 2445A, 2465, and even 485 are not likely to be within a reasonable price range for a young student.

As several others and I have commented, there has been a large number of working 100 MHz analog scopes going through e-pay lately.  With patience and careful shopping, you can score a 2246 or similar model with probes in the $150 range.  These are solid instruments, with simple, intuitive front panels.  The low parts count makes them reliable.

Yes it is true that the older scopes used fewer Tek made parts, and were maintainable.  However, because of the high parts count and higher operating temperatures, the likelihood that they will need repair is also higher.  While we "old farts" enjoy studying classic Tek scope designs to repair them, few young teens just getting into electronics would be motivated enough to dig into a dead 475 and breathe life back into it.  If we, as a society, are lucky enough to find a teen who actually is inclined to pursue electronics as a hobby over spending (wasting) time on his or her X-box 360, lets give them a scope that is likely to work as a tool from the start and not be a project in itself.

- Steve




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