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Ultimately recyclers have to scrap our treasures - an idea so maybe some can survive

ykochcal
 

I have been pondering on this issue a bit as I am headed in to be worked on
later this month, high probably of success, but still a small chance of
failure.
And if failure, something will have to be done with my "fun stuff" or as my
family refers to as "Junk".

But to me it's
Not enough value to be converted to real money for heirs.
Not Junk enough to go to the recycle bin.

But there might be a third option.

A group that was will to make a donation of time for a donation of money to
some of the groups that support old equipment, HP museum, Tek museum..., or
donation of funding for websites, Bama, W140... or Other


So I could see it working something like:

For a given area, there would be a informal pact of people that would be
willing to volunteer spending some time helping disperse the equipment.

The first person passes they have a list of the pact members that goes to
there heirs, who call down the list till there is someone who can help.

The helping person spends some time, it would clearly be a fair amount of
time, selling what can be sold, and moving what can be moved, the rest to
recycle.

Then donating the money to a short list of groups from the pact.

In short the persons time spent would be about worth the money but because
it was donated. The persons time spent would be converted in to a money
donation to support the group, museum ...

With the by product of finding a good home for more stuff then would other
wise happen.

I am half way between San Francisco and San Diego and I think I would be
willing to do the same.

I am 60, other then the current repair risk I am thinking I will be around
for awhile.

This is still a half baked idea

but I think the equipment just needs to get to the point where it's old
enough to be on the antique road show, like an old radios.

Maybe this would be enough to push a few past the recycle black hole.

John



On 2020-01-12 12:54 PM, Bob Albert via Groups.Io wrote:
Frankly, even list members are at odds regarding what is worth saving. 
One likes tube gear, another likes voltmeters, yet another is into a
particular brand of gear.  So if I make out a will that so-and-so can have
all mystuff, that so-and-so may find it a burden rather than a bonanza.
Maybe, unless we know of a particular want, it's best to let it go.
Bob
That's a valid, but regrettable choice. Many people won't have the means
or ability to ensure succession. It's a lot of work, like Chuck points
out, to find buyers or heirs and coordinate with them.

I think where Chuck's message is most vital is to remind those of us who
DO want stuff preserved, that active measures have to be taken
beforehand to make sure it happens.

It's a hard problem, especially since museums generally can't help.

--Toby

 

Why not donate the equipment to those who need or can use it while the person getting the equipment covers costs of getting the equipment to them?  It really hurts me when I see otherwise good equipment trashed.  This might be a more workable solution.

-Chris

Bob Albert
 

Chris, the only way to do that is to have a repository of names of those who want stuff, and the things they want.  That has to be addressed by each person as to who gets what.  It's a mess.
If I donate a DVM to someone who only wants signal generators, what's the point?  How do I know to whom to donate what?  Who dies first has his stuff go to whomever wants it, if he made proper arrangements.  The recipient, if still alive, has to pay for packing and shipping, if he indeed still wants it.  The estate has to figure it all out, and at a time when there are lots of sad faces and nobody wants to deal with this.
Best for each of us to have friends with similar tastes and keep it local.  Perhaps we need some local clubs to facilitate transfer of obsolete goodies.
Bob

On Monday, January 13, 2020, 08:48:27 PM PST, bhome1959 <@anatech> wrote:

Why not donate the equipment to those who need or can use it while the
person getting the equipment covers costs of getting the equipment to
them?  It really hurts me when I see otherwise good equipment trashed. 
This might be a more workable solution.

-Chris

W1RS
 

Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work. I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe. Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.

Dan Cordova
 

Easy.  Do an online search by typing in "Maker Space."  Almost every college and university has at least one maker space, even one near you.

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 10:55:16 AM PST, W1RS <deflatermaus@...> wrote:

Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work.  I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe.  Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.

Chuck Harris
 

That's a great idea! Who is that person that wants all of our
junk?

The kids don't want it... it doesn't play Best Fiends. The schools
don't want it, too much liability, and takes too much space... Besides,
they have tons of stuff they are dumping themselves...

Maker spaces want to tear it apart and make "art". You know, take the
nixies and make a clock, or build little resistor men, or use it as a
stand for a coffee table... stuff like that. They have no interest
in using it.

The steam punks want to pervert it... take a manual typewriter and use
it as I/O for their PC.

Putting together a list of people that want your stuff for free will
gather together a bunch of leeches that want to cherry pick the good
things so they can sell them, and leave you with the debris.

Ask the hams about the silent-key sales. You never see any of the
good stuff, it all goes to other members of the club. Only the trash
gets sold to help the X-XYL.

If you want your stuff to go somewhere nice after you die, you had
better get it there while you are still alive. Otherwise, it is all
going in the trash.

It is probably better just to not care what happens to it.

As an example, my uncle was a real audio enthusiast. He made a pair
of Klipch Horns from prints he got from Paul Klipch when they worked
together (1940's). He built all of his vacuum tube audio amplifiers
from parts he got from the Army, when he was in this, or that lab,
and he was using the best designs available at the time.

Did I mention he was a "real" audio enthusiast? Well, he was, and that
meant when better technologies arrived, he followed along... but he
couldn't just throw his old stuff away... to much of him was invested
in it.

When he died, his kids put all of his collection on the curb for the
garbage to collect. Because I "built things", they called me to see if
I wanted any of the plywood and lumber he had... so, I came over and
found thousands of dollars of tube audio equipment (by today's) prices
at the curb with a half ton of lumber scraps tossed on top.

Your heirs have no interest in anything but your money and your bling.

-Chuck Harris (I can feel Dennis's glaring eyes on the back of my neck)

bhome1959 wrote:

Why not donate the equipment to those who need or can use it while the person getting
the equipment covers costs of getting the equipment to them? It really hurts me when
I see otherwise good equipment trashed. This might be a more workable solution.

-Chris

Dan Cordova
 

I hope you picked up the items on the curb and took them home.

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 12:00:39 PM PST, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

That's a great idea!  Who is that person that wants all of our
junk?

The kids don't want it... it doesn't play Best Fiends.  The schools
don't want it, too much liability, and takes too much space... Besides,
they have tons of stuff they are dumping themselves...

Maker spaces want to tear it apart and make "art".  You know, take the
nixies and make a clock, or build little resistor men, or use it as a
stand for a coffee table...  stuff like that.  They have no interest
in using it.

The steam punks want to pervert it... take a manual typewriter and use
it as I/O for their PC.

Putting together a list of people that want your stuff for free will
gather together a bunch of leeches that want to cherry pick the good
things so they can sell them, and leave you with the debris.

Ask the hams about the silent-key sales.  You never see any of the
good stuff, it all goes to other members of the club.  Only the trash
gets sold to help the X-XYL.

If you want your stuff to go somewhere nice after you die, you had
better get it there while you are still alive.  Otherwise, it is all
going in the trash.

It is probably better just to not care what happens to it.

As an example, my uncle was a real audio enthusiast.  He made a pair
of Klipch Horns from prints he got from Paul Klipch when they worked
together (1940's).  He built all of his vacuum tube audio amplifiers
from parts he got from the Army, when he was in this, or that lab,
and he was using the best designs available at the time.

Did I mention he was a "real" audio enthusiast?  Well, he was, and that
meant when better technologies arrived, he followed along... but he
couldn't just throw his old stuff away... to much of him was invested
in it.

When he died, his kids put all of his collection on the curb for the
garbage to collect.  Because I "built things", they called me to see if
I wanted any of the plywood and lumber he had... so, I came over and
found thousands of dollars of tube audio equipment (by today's) prices
at the curb with a half ton of lumber scraps tossed on top.

Your heirs have no interest in anything but your money and your bling.

-Chuck Harris (I can feel Dennis's glaring eyes on the back of my neck)

bhome1959 wrote:
Why not donate the equipment to those who need or can use it while the person getting
the equipment covers costs of getting the equipment to them?  It really hurts me when
I see otherwise good equipment trashed.  This might be a more workable solution.

-Chris

Greg Muir
 

Chuck,

With reference to the "willing individual" who would assume the responsibility of handling all of the equipment I still haven't heard one mumble in this big empty room.

As for curbside pickup, when living in Colorado an engineering colleague of mine would cruise the neighborhoods prior to "trash pickup day" and return with truckloads of test and home entertainment equipment. He then would find the proper friends in need of an item and distribute it to them. There was a 85-90% probability that there was nothing wrong with the items he picked up. The remainder either ended up on his bench for repairs or immediately went out in his curbside pickup pile.

Greg

 

I am currently dealing with the recent death of a good friend who lives a few thousand miles away from me in BC, Canada.  I'm in Ontario.  Before he died he went over things he wanted with broad strokes.  I'm going to do my very best to honor his desires.

1.) He didn't want to burden his wife at all, so she has minimum effort as to moving the equipment out.

2.) He had a group of people to deal with where he wanted to give the equipment to.

3.) He did not want his gear thrown out, and he didn't want it sold.  He desired that it go to people who could use it.

    So, to satisfy his final wishes, I think I'll have everything shipped here on a pallet (I'm open to ideas on that).  I have asked those people in his group what they need for their lab.  I have also asked what they are currently using.  My goal is to send the equipment to those who need it the most, but they have to pay the shipping from my place to their place.  I'll be on the hook for the main shipping event, but I was told by my friend to take what I needed to offset the fact that this shipping would be paid by me (not his estate).  I do not have any idea what gear he has, and there is no way I'm going to list everything.  What I will do is list what is left in case there is a need for it.  I was thinking of listing it here for the same terms.  Free to a good home, but shipping is paid for by the recipient.  Direct pickup is welcome of course, and I am located near Toronto, Ontario.

    One problem I have is that everyone wants his oscilloscope, and I don't even know what he has.  Can you imagine if I listed everything?  One person wants everything and he doesn't even know what is there!  You can't win dealing with a large group and a list of expensive gear unless you take into account what they work with and what they have.  That is what I am doing.  This seems to be the best way to distribute equipment and make sure it will be used moving forward.

-Chris

Chuck Harris
 

Hi Greg,

The problem with the "willing individual", is if he thinks for
even 5 minutes he will realize that this it is a very hard and
very disruptive venture.

There are businesses that will do this for things that actually
are rare, and can be sold... but that means things that most
everyone in their area will want... artwork, furniture, tractors,
restored cars, jewelry, stuff like that.

Obsolete electronic test equipment is a very small niche market.

We love it, but we are sub 1%'ers. To the 99%'ers, it is just
trash.

I still will occasionally strike on some item left out for
recycling... not too often, though. I get tired of the bugs,
cat urine, and other not so nice features that often come with
it.

-Chuck Harris

Greg Muir via Groups.Io wrote:

Chuck,

With reference to the "willing individual" who would assume the responsibility of handling all of the equipment I still haven't heard one mumble in this big empty room.

As for curbside pickup, when living in Colorado an engineering colleague of mine would cruise the neighborhoods prior to "trash pickup day" and return with truckloads of test and home entertainment equipment. He then would find the proper friends in need of an item and distribute it to them. There was a 85-90% probability that there was nothing wrong with the items he picked up. The remainder either ended up on his bench for repairs or immediately went out in his curbside pickup pile.

Greg



Reginald Beardsley
 

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 02:00 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:

As an example, my uncle was a real audio enthusiast. He made a pair
of Klipch Horns from prints he got from Paul Klipch when they worked
together (1940's).
LoL

Dad scaled the patent drawings and built a pair of corner horns, one for himself and one for the friend who paid for materials. Dad also designed and built a high fidelity amplifier from scratch. Sadly his employer moved us and Dad never had a shop again. Just a warehouse filled with stuff to set up a shop.

The really fun part was eventually Dad and his corner horn, no longer functional wound up in Prescott, Arkansas, about 30 miles from Hope. Paul and his wife would come in late for dinner and the 3 of them would sit around talking and listening to records (not at the same time) long after the restaurant closed.

Reg

toby@...
 

On 2020-01-14 11:35 AM, W1RS wrote:
Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work. I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe. Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.
In practice it doesn't work for preservation, unfortunately. Also these
spaces generally don't have the room/funding for museum type operations.

--T


John Griessen
 

On 1/14/20 5:31 PM, toby@... wrote:
In practice it doesn't work for preservation, unfortunately. Also these
spaces generally don't have the room/funding for museum type operations.

Yes the one her in Austin had cardboard file boxes as a unit of storage for members
once and probably not much more now...

Tam Hanna
 

With mostly toxic or at least hostile-to-old-farts audience.


At one makerspace, someone literally thought I had invented si vis pacem, para bellum ON THE FLY.


Tam

--
With best regards
Tam HANNA

Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at https://www.instagram.com/tam.hanna/

Harvey White
 

If there is a problem with maker spaces, it may be that there are too many types of people involved.  What you'd ideally want is someone who appreciates the equipment for itself, can use it, and repair it.

You may not get that.

Have you gone to a craft faire and seen sculptures made from gears, pieces of typewriters, old switches and whatever?  All put together in a haphazard (but artistic............) manner and completely non-functional?

You might get that instead.

I think it very much depends on the place involved, though

A maker space is an open lab where people can go to get resources.  Computers, lathes, drill presses, 3D printers, oscilloscopes, etc.  Nice idea, but firstly (it costs money), and secondly, most people here may have better equipment, and thirdly, I have no idea of who is in charge and how well the equipment is cared for.

Good idea, but for the most part, I have, for what I want, better stuff than they have, and it's paid for, and in the lab.  That's just me, though.

Harvey

On 1/14/2020 11:35 AM, W1RS wrote:
Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work. I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe. Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.


Bob Albert
 

Harvey, I too have better stuff.  But it's good only for us.  There are few who can, as you say, care for any of it.  And what member of such a group would care about measuring volts to six or eight digits, or how disciplined an oscillator is, or how many Ohms a resistor differs from its marking?  Testing tubes may be fun for someone who has a tube tester, but that's not exactly a universal feeling.
I would love to be the recipient of more goodies, so if anyone out there is downsizing and lives local to me, PM me and I'll buzz over and get some more toys.  But they are just toys; I don't do serious work any more.
Bob K6DDX

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 06:49:36 PM PST, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

If there is a problem with maker spaces, it may be that there are too
many types of people involved.  What you'd ideally want is someone who
appreciates the equipment for itself, can use it, and repair it.

You may not get that.

Have you gone to a craft faire and seen sculptures made from gears,
pieces of typewriters, old switches and whatever?  All put together in a
haphazard (but artistic............) manner and completely non-functional?

You might get that instead.

I think it very much depends on the place involved, though

A maker space is an open lab where people can go to get resources. 
Computers, lathes, drill presses, 3D printers, oscilloscopes, etc.  Nice
idea, but firstly (it costs money), and secondly, most people here may
have better equipment, and thirdly, I have no idea of who is in charge
and how well the equipment is cared for.

Good idea, but for the most part, I have, for what I want, better stuff
than they have, and it's paid for, and in the lab.  That's just me, though.

Harvey


On 1/14/2020 11:35 AM, W1RS wrote:
Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work.  I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe.  Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.



Harvey White
 

Wait, you found a makerspace where they *knew* Latin?

Harvey

On 1/14/2020 9:12 PM, Tam Hanna wrote:
With mostly toxic or at least hostile-to-old-farts audience.


At one makerspace, someone literally thought I had invented si vis pacem, para bellum ON THE FLY.


Tam

Dave Seiter
 

The Maker Spaces in the SF bay area are dropping like flies; the only one still around for sure that I know of is the Hacker Dojo, and that's basically a software space.  I love the idea of maker spaces, but I'd hate to have to use one unless it was for equipment I don't have, like a plasma table.  (Why? I don't want to sit through training classes and skill tests, just give me the manual, tell me about the quirks, and let me run with it.)
-Dave

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 03:31:18 PM PST, toby@... <toby@...> wrote:

On 2020-01-14 11:35 AM, W1RS wrote:
Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work.  I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe.  Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.
In practice it doesn't work for preservation, unfortunately. Also these
spaces generally don't have the room/funding for museum type operations.

--T


Tom Gardner
 

In my experiences, hackspaces want/need simple easy /working/ equipment, and since space is limited it has to be /small/.

My local one has so many scopes that they give away the really crap ones, and even so there 5 stored on a high shelf. Including a Telequipment DM63 dual beam three channel storage scope (working but shows 50Hz intensity variations:) )

Even so people occasionally propose getting a modern Rigol 1054, because it is easy to use.

So by all means try them, but don't expect them to want boat anchors and anything they have to fix.

On 15/01/20 07:26, Dave Seiter wrote:
The Maker Spaces in the SF bay area are dropping like flies; the only one still around for sure that I know of is the Hacker Dojo, and that's basically a software space.  I love the idea of maker spaces, but I'd hate to have to use one unless it was for equipment I don't have, like a plasma table.  (Why? I don't want to sit through training classes and skill tests, just give me the manual, tell me about the quirks, and let me run with it.)
-Dave
At my local hackspace the equipment is frequently damaged by people making basic mistakes, sometimes directly against instructions given during inductions. One example: leaving a Tek 2235 floated for the next member to find. I was not amused.

The basic problem is that "random" people wander in off the street, and many people's creative experience is little more than "cut, paste, glue" found in nursery school!

They are wrestling with how to reduce that; I expect they will adopt some obvious "authoritarian" techniques after all alternatives have been exhausted.

While corporate bureaucracy may be slow, distributed volunteer organisations are worse :)

Harvey White
 

'Tis true, only good for us.  When I was teaching, if I wanted to give something away, I had to give it to the school, and then, maybe, it might be given to a student (heaven forbid any kind of favoritism).  I did that a bit, and found that the people who "got" it, well, some of them were not the best students, and left it by the curb when they moved.    You can't become attached to what you give away.

I'm still open to the idea of helping people, trade, etc; but AFAIK, there are not even any makerspaces near me, nor any clubs. I certainly don't know anyone who could use one of three excess HP16702A logic analyzers (you provide the blades).  I don't even know much of anyone who does microprocessor/FPGA/Graphics development.  (read, I don't think I know of any, certainly not local).

With a 6 call sign, you're on the opposite coast, since I live in Florida.

The other problem is that it took me until about 3 years ago to get the lab to the point where I've only got things I'd "like" to have, rather than things I "need" to have to do work.

I'm not sure what I'd want to give away, but I do have an HP1640 serial analyzer that would be up for grabs.

Harvey

On 1/14/2020 9:58 PM, Bob Albert via Groups.Io wrote:
Harvey, I too have better stuff.  But it's good only for us.  There are few who can, as you say, care for any of it.  And what member of such a group would care about measuring volts to six or eight digits, or how disciplined an oscillator is, or how many Ohms a resistor differs from its marking?  Testing tubes may be fun for someone who has a tube tester, but that's not exactly a universal feeling.
I would love to be the recipient of more goodies, so if anyone out there is downsizing and lives local to me, PM me and I'll buzz over and get some more toys.  But they are just toys; I don't do serious work any more.
Bob K6DDX
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 06:49:36 PM PST, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:
If there is a problem with maker spaces, it may be that there are too
many types of people involved.  What you'd ideally want is someone who
appreciates the equipment for itself, can use it, and repair it.

You may not get that.

Have you gone to a craft faire and seen sculptures made from gears,
pieces of typewriters, old switches and whatever?  All put together in a
haphazard (but artistic............) manner and completely non-functional?

You might get that instead.

I think it very much depends on the place involved, though

A maker space is an open lab where people can go to get resources.
Computers, lathes, drill presses, 3D printers, oscilloscopes, etc.  Nice
idea, but firstly (it costs money), and secondly, most people here may
have better equipment, and thirdly, I have no idea of who is in charge
and how well the equipment is cared for.

Good idea, but for the most part, I have, for what I want, better stuff
than they have, and it's paid for, and in the lab.  That's just me, though.

Harvey


On 1/14/2020 11:35 AM, W1RS wrote:
Perhaps the "Maker Spaces" concept could work.  I have heard of them but am not familiar with the maker universe.  Maybe somebody else could enlighten me.