Topics

2465 Fan Collet Thingy

DaveH52
 

Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.

Tom Gardner
 

On 09/11/19 22:04, DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.
That happened to my 2445B recently.

There are some possibilities for manufactured collets discussed in the archive.

I've sent a model of the collet off for manufacture in SLA, but it will probably take the best part of a month to arrive. When it arrives I'll let you know if it looks like it works.

Chuck Harris
 

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:

Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.



Tony Fleming
 

Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.





n4buq
 

That happened to me. It broke cleanly and rather squarely at the end/depth of the brass insert.

I drilled and tapped the collet about 3/16" deep, used a very short length of #4-40 threaded rod (really just a cut off #4-40 screw), CA-glued the threaded rod into the plastic and then did the same into the brass end (with CA on the mating surfaces.

I had to shorten the #4-40 on the threaded "puller" but it all went back together and appears it will hold (it doesn't take much "pull" to close the collet sufficiently.

Just one way that might work to fix a broken collet.

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveH52" <@DaveH52>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, November 9, 2019 4:04:54 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] 2465 Fan Collet Thingy

Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone tightened
it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.



Chuck Harris
 

As I said, there are dimensioned prints... prints are
a 2D thing. You will have to use your own cad expertise
to convert them into a 3D mesh for printing.

I am not sure that an all plastic printed solution will
work... tektronix didn't think so, and made a much more
expensive metal/plastic hybrid.

-Chuck Harris

Tony Fleming wrote:

Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.







EricJ
 

I am still getting my new machines set up, but I can probably run off a few soon.

--Eric

On Nov 9, 2019 11:15 PM, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:




As I said, there are dimensioned prints... prints are
a 2D thing.  You will have to use your own cad expertise
to convert them into a 3D mesh for printing.

I am not sure that an all plastic printed solution will
work... tektronix didn't think so, and made a much more
expensive metal/plastic hybrid.

-Chuck Harris

Tony Fleming wrote:
Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group.  A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out.  I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.











Tom Gardner
 

I made my own model from the dimensioned prints, and had some made from SLA. I used a file to make it fit, and have experimented to see how the SLA took the forcibly inserted screw thread. The results were sufficiently encouraging that I've sent a modified variant off for manufacture.

A standard home PLA printer definitely won't work. I tried it to assess the relative quality of a nearby 3D printer, and the results were what I expected: dimensionally inadequate, and it easily fractures along the joints between layers.

I don't know about the SLA's long-term stability. I do have SLA with a 2mm pitch thread from 3 years ago that is fine

I don't know about the SLA's long-term stability under heat. I hope it won't get too hot.

The parts could be manufactured in brass or aluminium, but I don't know whether the screw thread would be of adequate quality. If not then manual tapping would be required. They would be more than an order of magnitude more expensive, but still tolerable. Hence I prefer experimenting with SLA.

On 10/11/19 00:41, Tony Fleming wrote:
Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.

Tom Gardner
 

On 10/11/19 05:41, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
I am still getting my new machines set up, but I can probably run off a few soon.
What material will that be?

EricJ
 

6061 most likely.

--Eric

On Nov 10, 2019 3:01 AM, Tom Gardner <tggzzz@...> wrote:




On 10/11/19 05:41, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
I am still getting my new machines set up, but I can probably run off a
few soon.

What material will that be?





Tom Gardner
 

Sorry, I know electronics, not materials.

Is that plastic or metal?

On 10/11/19 10:14, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
6061 most likely.

--Eric

On Nov 10, 2019 3:01 AM, Tom Gardner <tggzzz@...> wrote:



On 10/11/19 05:41, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
I am still getting my new machines set up, but I can probably run off a
few soon.

What material will that be?

Mark Wendt
 

Aluminum.

Mark

On 11/10/19 05:47, Tom Gardner wrote:
Sorry, I know electronics, not materials.

Is that plastic or metal?


On 10/11/19 10:14, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
6061 most likely.

--Eric

Chuck Harris
 

I had several collets made from the Tom Jobe, etal prints that
are in the file section of this group, and they were made from
a single piece of brass rod... threaded section and all. They
worked perfectly.

The group that developed that print, machined several out of
aluminum and they worked fine too.

They used an ordinary thread cutting die to cut the threads on
the threaded section. I suspect that they flipped the die for
the last pass to make the threads cut up to the edge... but there
is no need for them to be cut all that close to the collet body.

-Chuck Harris

Tom Gardner wrote:

I made my own model from the dimensioned prints, and had some made from SLA. I used a
file to make it fit, and have experimented to see how the SLA took the forcibly
inserted screw thread. The results were sufficiently encouraging that I've sent a
modified variant off for manufacture.

A standard home PLA printer definitely won't work. I tried it to assess the relative
quality of a nearby 3D printer, and the results were what I expected: dimensionally
inadequate, and it easily fractures along the joints between layers.

I don't know about the SLA's long-term stability. I do have SLA with a 2mm pitch
thread from 3 years ago that is fine

I don't know about the SLA's long-term stability under heat. I hope it won't get too
hot.

The parts could be manufactured in brass or aluminium, but I don't know whether the
screw thread would be of adequate quality. If not then manual tapping would be
required. They would be more than an order of magnitude more expensive, but still
tolerable. Hence I prefer experimenting with SLA.



On 10/11/19 00:41, Tony Fleming wrote:
Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.


Tom Gardner
 

I've no doubt you are correct.

When I stated "parts could be manufactured in brass or aluminium", I was thinking of 3D printing them. It would have helped if I had been more precise.

Sorry for the confusion.

On 10/11/19 13:20, Chuck Harris wrote:
I had several collets made from the Tom Jobe, etal prints that
are in the file section of this group, and they were made from
a single piece of brass rod... threaded section and all. They
worked perfectly.

The group that developed that print, machined several out of
aluminum and they worked fine too.

They used an ordinary thread cutting die to cut the threads on
the threaded section. I suspect that they flipped the die for
the last pass to make the threads cut up to the edge... but there
is no need for them to be cut all that close to the collet body.

-Chuck Harris

Tom Gardner wrote:
I made my own model from the dimensioned prints, and had some made from SLA. I used a
file to make it fit, and have experimented to see how the SLA took the forcibly
inserted screw thread. The results were sufficiently encouraging that I've sent a
modified variant off for manufacture.

A standard home PLA printer definitely won't work. I tried it to assess the relative
quality of a nearby 3D printer, and the results were what I expected: dimensionally
inadequate, and it easily fractures along the joints between layers.

I don't know about the SLA's long-term stability. I do have SLA with a 2mm pitch
thread from 3 years ago that is fine

I don't know about the SLA's long-term stability under heat. I hope it won't get too
hot.

The parts could be manufactured in brass or aluminium, but I don't know whether the
screw thread would be of adequate quality. If not then manual tapping would be
required. They would be more than an order of magnitude more expensive, but still
tolerable. Hence I prefer experimenting with SLA.



On 10/11/19 00:41, Tony Fleming wrote:
Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.

Chuck Harris
 

Hi Tom,

Ahh! My fervent wish is to be able to 3D print brass, aluminum,
or steel... But alas, that won't be for a while.

What I see that says it is 3D printed brass, or aluminum, is in
actuality a slurry of brass flakes, or aluminum flakes, and some
organic (plastic) meltable binder. The brass or aluminum comes
to the surface in a way that makes it appear to be brass or aluminum,
but the strength is all plastic.

I read an article of a M1911A2 being entirely printed in steel, but
I never heard how they did that, only that they would happily sell
you one of their printed guns for $30K.... To help fund research,
of course.

I suppose something like a mig welder controlled by a 3D mechanism
would do something... but it would be brutally inefficient.

-Chuck Harris

Tom Gardner wrote:

I've no doubt you are correct.

When I stated "parts could be manufactured in brass or aluminium", I was thinking of
3D printing them. It would have helped if I had been more precise.

Sorry for the confusion.



On 10/11/19 13:20, Chuck Harris wrote:
I had several collets made from the Tom Jobe, etal prints that
are in the file section of this group, and they were made from
a single piece of brass rod... threaded section and all. They
worked perfectly.

Tony Fleming
 

Thanks for that information.

On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 11:15 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

As I said, there are dimensioned prints... prints are
a 2D thing. You will have to use your own cad expertise
to convert them into a 3D mesh for printing.

I am not sure that an all plastic printed solution will
work... tektronix didn't think so, and made a much more
expensive metal/plastic hybrid.

-Chuck Harris

Tony Fleming wrote:
Where are the 3D files to print my own replacement?
Thank you very much.
Tony


On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 6:39 PM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

More usually, the problem is someone turning the
slotted screw, thinking it loosens the collet.

Turning the screw will break the collet every time.
Tightening the nut is less likely to do that, as that
is the intended way to apply force to the collet.

It is the torque that causes problems.

There are dimensioned prints for the collet in the files
section of this group. A search on collet should find them.

If you can't find them, contact me, and I will send them
to you.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH52 wrote:
Are there any of the fan to motor collet thingies available anywhere?
When I removed the back panel, the fan fell out. I think someone
tightened it up too much and broke it on the scope I'm rejuvinating.









Tom Gardner
 

Yes and no!

Yes: you can get solid brass 3D printed items; I have one such sign outside my front door. 3D printed gold, silver and platinum is also commercially important - in the jewellery trade.

No: the printed medium is wax, and the brass item is manufactured by the age-old lost wax casting technique.

I'm sure there are many suppliers available, but one is https://www.shapeways.com/materials/brass
Ditto https://www.shapeways.com/materials which shows bronze, gold, silver, platinum.

Their aluminium is made with selective laser sintering, and I've seen titanium used that way.

You can also get 3D printed paper. When combined with an inkjet printer, it enables architects' models to be produced for display in showrooms etc.

And there are other materials, e.g. ceramic.

Additive manufacturing is undergoing a "pre-cambian explosion", much a microprocessors did between 1975 and 1990.

On 10/11/19 14:22, Chuck Harris wrote:
Hi Tom,

Ahh! My fervent wish is to be able to 3D print brass, aluminum,
or steel... But alas, that won't be for a while.

What I see that says it is 3D printed brass, or aluminum, is in
actuality a slurry of brass flakes, or aluminum flakes, and some
organic (plastic) meltable binder. The brass or aluminum comes
to the surface in a way that makes it appear to be brass or aluminum,
but the strength is all plastic.

I read an article of a M1911A2 being entirely printed in steel, but
I never heard how they did that, only that they would happily sell
you one of their printed guns for $30K.... To help fund research,
of course.

I suppose something like a mig welder controlled by a 3D mechanism
would do something... but it would be brutally inefficient.

-Chuck Harris

Tom Gardner wrote:
I've no doubt you are correct.

When I stated "parts could be manufactured in brass or aluminium", I was thinking of
3D printing them. It would have helped if I had been more precise.

Sorry for the confusion.



On 10/11/19 13:20, Chuck Harris wrote:
I had several collets made from the Tom Jobe, etal prints that
are in the file section of this group, and they were made from
a single piece of brass rod... threaded section and all. They
worked perfectly.

EricJ
 

Good grade of aluminum. It has been mentioned that brass would probably work too.

--Eric

On Nov 10, 2019 4:47 AM, Tom Gardner <tggzzz@...> wrote:




Sorry, I know electronics, not materials.

Is that plastic or metal?


On 10/11/19 10:14, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
6061 most likely.

--Eric

On Nov 10, 2019 3:01 AM, Tom Gardner <tggzzz@...> wrote:



On 10/11/19 05:41, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:
I am still getting my new machines set up, but I can probably run off
a
few soon.

What material will that be?






Siggi
 

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 12:15 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

I am not sure that an all plastic printed solution will
work... tektronix didn't think so, and made a much more
expensive metal/plastic hybrid.
A home-printed plastic fused-filament collet almost certainly won't work,
those things will delaminate at the shade of a hint of a threat of any
stress in my experience. I'd be surprised if Shapeways and other commercial
services couldn't produce a usable part using SLS in nylon-like plastics
<https://www.shapeways.com/materials/versatile-plastic>.
I did machine a batch of these collets from delrin/acetal, and those will
work just fine - delrin will hold the thread just dandy. (I've been
shipping these out for postage, but I'm out of stock now - alas).
The reason Tektronix used an insert is IMHO not for strength, but because
you can't injection-mold threads, and a secondary machining step on this
collet would be awkward.
Injection molding around an insert is however no big deal, and you can
potentially use the same insert in many different injection-molded parts.
Machining the part from raw stock would also have been expensive in the
day, but the inserts would have dropped out of a screw machine by the
hundreds/minute.

Siggi

Chuck Harris
 

Hi Siggi,

One thing to think of, if the collet is drawn vertically
by the printer, it is certain to break, but if you draw
it horizontally with long strokes, and in halves, it might
be strong enough.

Especially if it is ABS.

No matter what, I would expect that the threaded section
will have to be done manually with a tap and a short chunk
of threaded rod.

Most slicers will allow you to draw your own paths, if you
wish to go to the effort. Done once, it can be replicated
by anyone.

It wouldn't even be all that hard to build a custom printer
that had an X, Y and R axis. Like a 3d printer lathe.

-Chuck Harris

Siggi wrote:

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 12:15 AM Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

I am not sure that an all plastic printed solution will
work... tektronix didn't think so, and made a much more
expensive metal/plastic hybrid.
A home-printed plastic fused-filament collet almost certainly won't work,
those things will delaminate at the shade of a hint of a threat of any
stress in my experience. I'd be surprised if Shapeways and other commercial
services couldn't produce a usable part using SLS in nylon-like plastics
<https://www.shapeways.com/materials/versatile-plastic>.
I did machine a batch of these collets from delrin/acetal, and those will
work just fine - delrin will hold the thread just dandy. (I've been
shipping these out for postage, but I'm out of stock now - alas).
The reason Tektronix used an insert is IMHO not for strength, but because
you can't injection-mold threads, and a secondary machining step on this
collet would be awkward.
Injection molding around an insert is however no big deal, and you can
potentially use the same insert in many different injection-molded parts.
Machining the part from raw stock would also have been expensive in the
day, but the inserts would have dropped out of a screw machine by the
hundreds/minute.

Siggi