Topics

7000 series carrying handles - how strong are they?

Nenad Filipovic
 

Well I suppose this sounds silly, but I just can't get over it. This thin
metal sheet inside the handle is surely tough, high tensile strength steel,
but somehow subjectively it doesn't nearly impress as the rugged 465
handle, for example. In my head thin metal sheets tear and crack. Every
7000 handle end I inspected showed some minor bending around the hole where
it pulls against the main screw.

So my question is, has anyone ever had that handle crack or snap? 7000s are
no longer costly lab instruments handled with utmost care, today we use
them in our homes, shops... They get transported probably a lot more
frequently than they were intended to, possibly against some rules which
were in power back then, now forgotten or never even known. Should the
instrument be supported by your other hand from below?

I don't use my 7104 often, but when I do I need to carry and lift it on the
table. And every time I get shivers in my feet. Some reassurance would help.

Best Regards,
Nenad F.

Craig Cramb
 

I don't use my 7104 often, but when I do I need to carry and lift it on the
table. And every time I get shivers in my feet.

Nenad
Well with age of any metal I would be concerned. At 46+ lbs. The one I used to own was on a Tek cart. Which saved my Back and Feet. I think getting a Tek cart would be a good option for you. Yes they are also bulky but at least you are assured you won’t risk damage to instrument or yourself.
Craig

Dave Seiter
 

For a 7104, I'd think about carrying it from the bottom, but that said, I've never done it, nor have I ever heard of one of the 7K straps breaking (unlike the 500 series, which are mostly broken, or at least disintegrating at this point.)
-Dave

On Sunday, August 18, 2019, 02:39:31 AM PDT, Nenad Filipovic <ilmuerte@...> wrote:

Well I suppose this sounds silly, but I just can't get over it. This thin
metal sheet inside the handle is surely tough, high tensile strength steel,
but somehow subjectively it doesn't nearly impress as the rugged 465
handle, for example. In my head thin metal sheets tear and crack. Every
7000 handle end I inspected showed some minor bending around the hole where
it pulls against the main screw.

So my question is, has anyone ever had that handle crack or snap? 7000s are
no longer costly lab instruments handled with utmost care, today we use
them in our homes, shops... They get transported probably a lot more
frequently than they were intended to, possibly against some rules which
were in power back then, now forgotten or never even known. Should the
instrument be supported by your other hand from below?

I don't use my 7104 often, but when I do I need to carry and lift it on the
table. And every time I get shivers in my feet. Some reassurance would help.

Best Regards,
Nenad F.

@0culus
 

As the proud owner of both a 7904A and a 7104, I can attest to this concern. Fortunately, my HP 8664A sig gen provides the perfect spot for the 7104 to rest in the corner of my benches, where I don't have to move either one often...it is significantly heavier than the 7904A. Let's not even talk about how massive the 8664A is. :o)

Safest option is definitely going to be a rolling cart if you have to move it a lot, closely followed by lifting it from the bottom.

Sean

Greg Muir
 

Not having a 7K handy at the time, I am aware that Tek used to frequently use stainless steel in handles. It has reasonably good tensile strength. The TM500 power modules seem to have some sort of alloy embedded in their handles. The simple way to test for stainless is to bring a magnet near it. If no attraction it is stainless.

HP also used stainless in many of their earlier handles as well. But I, too also am conscious of what could possibly happen when lifting these beasts but have never had a "surprise" episode as well.

The best recommendation is to keep your feet away from being under the item you are lifting.

Greg

Bruce Griffiths
 

Not quite correct.
austenitic stainless (300 series) is non magnetic.
Martensitic (eg 422, 440 and 17-4PH etc) and ferritic grades are magnetic.
Hardened martensitic stainless is stronger than austenitic stainless.

Bruce

On 19 August 2019 at 10:21 "Greg Muir via Groups.Io" <big_sky_explorer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Not having a 7K handy at the time, I am aware that Tek used to frequently use stainless steel in handles. It has reasonably good tensile strength. The TM500 power modules seem to have some sort of alloy embedded in their handles. The simple way to test for stainless is to bring a magnet near it. If no attraction it is stainless.

HP also used stainless in many of their earlier handles as well. But I, too also am conscious of what could possibly happen when lifting these beasts but have never had a "surprise" episode as well.

The best recommendation is to keep your feet away from being under the item you are lifting.

Greg


Dave Seiter
 

I was going to say something similar; btw, I recently came across a polymer based material that is both magnetic and an insulator. Not sure how that was accomplished, maybe the iron particles where pre-insulated?

On Aug 18, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@...> wrote:

Not quite correct.
austenitic stainless (300 series) is non magnetic.
Martensitic (eg 422, 440 and 17-4PH etc) and ferritic grades are magnetic.
Hardened martensitic stainless is stronger than austenitic stainless.

Bruce
On 19 August 2019 at 10:21 "Greg Muir via Groups.Io" <big_sky_explorer=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Not having a 7K handy at the time, I am aware that Tek used to frequently use stainless steel in handles. It has reasonably good tensile strength. The TM500 power modules seem to have some sort of alloy embedded in their handles. The simple way to test for stainless is to bring a magnet near it. If no attraction it is stainless.

HP also used stainless in many of their earlier handles as well. But I, too also am conscious of what could possibly happen when lifting these beasts but have never had a "surprise" episode as well.

The best recommendation is to keep your feet away from being under the item you are lifting.

Greg



Greg Muir
 

With grade 301 with a full hard temper having a minimum tensile strength of 1300 MPa.

Greg

evan foss
 

I once carried a 7704A a little over a mile. I don't recommend it but
I would like to point out that my ability to carry it gave out, while
the handle is still in working order.

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 9:39 AM Nenad Filipovic <ilmuerte@...> wrote:

Well I suppose this sounds silly, but I just can't get over it. This thin
metal sheet inside the handle is surely tough, high tensile strength steel,
but somehow subjectively it doesn't nearly impress as the rugged 465
handle, for example. In my head thin metal sheets tear and crack. Every
7000 handle end I inspected showed some minor bending around the hole where
it pulls against the main screw.

So my question is, has anyone ever had that handle crack or snap? 7000s are
no longer costly lab instruments handled with utmost care, today we use
them in our homes, shops... They get transported probably a lot more
frequently than they were intended to, possibly against some rules which
were in power back then, now forgotten or never even known. Should the
instrument be supported by your other hand from below?

I don't use my 7104 often, but when I do I need to carry and lift it on the
table. And every time I get shivers in my feet. Some reassurance would help.

Best Regards,
Nenad F.


--
https://github.com/evanfoss

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Ni Nenad,
Not silly. I have been carrying 7000 series scopes around for almost 50 years and I have never given the handle a second thought because I have removed so many of them from instruments I have scrapped. Every one of them is as solid as the day it was made. This applies to the outer plastic cover, the inner spring steel, the way they are attached to the instrument, and the way the rigid aluminum chassis handles all that weight. It is beautiful integration of all those parts into a very sophisticated mechanical design.

Even with the 500 series scopes, which weighed much more, and had handles that were covered in leather, I never saw a handle break. The leather might dry out and crumble in some climates but the steel hidden inside was still more than strong enough to continue doing its job of making it possible to safely lift a scope (provided you had a couple of helpers with strong backs to provide assistance).

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Nenad Filipovic
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 2:41 AM

Well I suppose this sounds silly, but I just can't get over it. This thin metal sheet inside the handle is surely tough, high tensile strength steel, but somehow subjectively it doesn't nearly impress as the rugged 465 handle, for example. In my head thin metal sheets tear and crack. Every
7000 handle end I inspected showed some minor bending around the hole where it pulls against the main screw.

So my question is, has anyone ever had that handle crack or snap? 7000s are no longer costly lab instruments handled with utmost care, today we use them in our homes, shops... They get transported probably a lot more frequently than they were intended to, possibly against some rules which were in power back then, now forgotten or never even known. Should the instrument be supported by your other hand from below?

I don't use my 7104 often, but when I do I need to carry and lift it on the table. And every time I get shivers in my feet. Some reassurance would help.

Best Regards,
Nenad F.




--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

Dave Seiter
 

I've had 2 500 series handles break on me- one should have been obvious, it was rusted badly and only the metal was left, but the other one still had remnants of it's covering on it but was also rusted badly, maybe even worse than the first one.  The inside of the second scope also showed a lot of corrosion on the aluminum and steel parts.  My guess was that it spent a lot of time near the ocean in Santa Cruz (where I picked it up). Both didn't fall far, but were pretty used up anyway- only the good parts remain...somewhere.
-Dave

On Tuesday, August 20, 2019, 01:42:43 AM PDT, Dennis Tillman W7PF <@Dennis_Tillman_W7PF> wrote:

Ni Nenad,
Not silly. I have been carrying 7000 series scopes around for almost 50 years and I have never given the handle a second thought because I have removed so many of them from instruments I have scrapped. Every one of them is as solid as the day it was made. This applies to the outer plastic cover, the inner spring steel, the way they are attached to the instrument, and the way the rigid aluminum chassis handles all that weight. It is beautiful integration of all those parts into a very sophisticated mechanical design.

Even with the 500 series scopes, which weighed much more, and had handles that were covered in leather, I never saw a handle break.  The leather might dry out and crumble in some climates but the steel hidden inside was still more than strong enough to continue doing its job of making it possible to safely lift a scope (provided you had a couple of helpers with strong backs to provide assistance).

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Nenad Filipovic
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 2:41 AM

Well I suppose this sounds silly, but I just can't get over it. This thin metal sheet inside the handle is surely tough, high tensile strength steel, but somehow subjectively it doesn't nearly impress as the rugged 465 handle, for example. In my head thin metal sheets tear and crack. Every
7000 handle end I inspected showed some minor bending around the hole where it pulls against the main screw.

So my question is, has anyone ever had that handle crack or snap? 7000s are no longer costly lab instruments handled with utmost care, today we use them in our homes, shops... They get transported probably a lot more frequently than they were intended to, possibly against some rules which were in power back then, now forgotten or never even known. Should the instrument be supported by your other hand from below?

I don't use my 7104 often, but when I do I need to carry and lift it on the table. And every time I get shivers in my feet. Some reassurance would help.

Best Regards,
Nenad F.




--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Even with the 500 series scopes, which weighed much more, and had handles that were covered in
leather
Dennis Tillman W7PF
It was not leather, but leatherette - a plastic faux leather. Which is why it degrades over the
decades (probably because the plasticiser leaches out), cracks and falls to pieces. As does the piece
of fibreboard underneath it without the leatherette to protect it - and that leaves only the metal
strap inside, often rusty.

Craig

Greg Muir
 

I think the rust problem in the 500 series handles was the reason why Tek went to stainless.

Years ago I picked up some older (and much lighter) HP meters that had a similar problem with rot but did not possess the metal innards. I stopped by a saddle shop with one of the handles and showed it to them. A week later I had a half a dozen exact duplicate handles for $5 each.

Greg

Roy Thistle
 

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 03:38 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:


austenitic stainless (300 series) is non magnetic
unless it is cold worked (like stamping it?)... and then it develops a magnetic response. The strength of which [compared to stainless numbers that are magnetic]… I guess... depends on the amount of cold working.
Roy

Roy Thistle
 

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 05:54 PM, evan foss wrote:


I once carried a 7704A a little over a mile.
I've carried the 500s and 7000s, for long distances occasionally 1Km plus, and frequently carried them a couple of hundred meters.. and lots of times carried them 10 to 20 meters, from lab to lab, through the halls... or across the lab. (I know... there is a new invention called wheels; but, the scope carts are always jammed up with junk!) The only times a metal strap broke... and that was before I lifted the scope... the steel strap broke (just by pulling on it)... it was very obviously rotted and rusted through, . A couple of times, on the 500s, I braided a rope (1.5 mm rope/string) handle on, just so I could carry it... when I thought the rusty steel handle present might suddenly fail, under inconvenient circumstances.
That said... the steel strap is only as "strong", as the fittings it engages, and the bolts (screws really) that hold the whole assembly to the body of the scope. Checking those are sound, and will continue to be sound, seems prudent.
I get the willies too, wondering whether the handle is going to break, on these heavy scopes... but under the weight and strain, I quickly start to trust the steel, and I worry more about banging the front panel into something, and bending those little knobs!
I have a 1200 series Tek logic analyzer, that has a bail type handle... but it has one corner of the bottom compressed, upwards... like it was dropped, straight down, from letting go of the handle... and then the thing landing on just one corner... so how does that happen?... the handle is fine.
Roy