Topics

TDS 500 600 700 series calibration

Dan Fish
 

I used to calibrate the 500MHz scopes but got rid of the AT PC and GPIB card. Still have the TM500 series plugins in the equipment list. Recently bought a TDS 584 (1GHz) with a bad display, crinkled gel between color shutter and front glass. Fixed that by removing gel. Found I could pull a length of wire (jacketed) between the layers to separate for cleaning. After display fixed found that a previous owner had thrown #3 dip switch to skip processor tests at turn on. This masks the calibration failure due to Dallas NVROM battery run down. So I have a
nice pristine 1GHz DSO brick. I do have ability to copy the NVROM and put in a fresh one.

Does anyone know if the calibration procedure and equipment list for the 1GHz scopes is the same as the one I am familiar with for the 500 MHz scopes? I need to make a decision to gear up again for calibration or just put it up for sale.

Thanks, Dan

Mark Goldberg
 

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:56 PM Dan Fish <defish1@...> wrote:

I used to calibrate the 500MHz scopes but got rid of the AT PC and GPIB
card. Still have the TM500 series plugins in the equipment list. Recently
bought a TDS 584 (1GHz)

Does anyone know if the calibration procedure and equipment list for the
1GHz scopes is the same as the one I am familiar with for the 500 MHz
scopes? I need to make a decision to gear up again for calibration or
just put it up for sale.

Have you checked with any calibration labs? I have a modern MDO3024 scope
and the calibration is apparently fully automated. Cost is only $134 for an
accredited local third party lab to do it and provide me a cal sticker. My
HP 8642A signal generator costs more than twice as much to calibrate. I
believe much more labor is required. Maybe this scope is new enough to be
easy and not too expensive to calibrate.

Regards,

Mark

Stephen Hanselman
 

Since I still calibrate the 540 series I have the software up and running, I don’t think the software supports the 584 but I will check on Monday

Regards,

Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
3107 North Deer Run Road #24
Carson City, Nevada, 89701
(775) 882-5117 office
(775) 720-6020 mobile
s.hanselman@...
www.datagatesystems.com
a Service Disabled, Veteran Owned Small Business
DISCLAIMER:
This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me and permanently delete the original and all copies and printouts of this e-mail and any attachments.

On Feb 3, 2019, at 21:13, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@...> wrote:

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:56 PM Dan Fish <defish1@...> wrote:

I used to calibrate the 500MHz scopes but got rid of the AT PC and GPIB
card. Still have the TM500 series plugins in the equipment list. Recently
bought a TDS 584 (1GHz)

Does anyone know if the calibration procedure and equipment list for the
1GHz scopes is the same as the one I am familiar with for the 500 MHz
scopes? I need to make a decision to gear up again for calibration or
just put it up for sale.

Have you checked with any calibration labs? I have a modern MDO3024 scope
and the calibration is apparently fully automated. Cost is only $134 for an
accredited local third party lab to do it and provide me a cal sticker. My
HP 8642A signal generator costs more than twice as much to calibrate. I
believe much more labor is required. Maybe this scope is new enough to be
easy and not too expensive to calibrate.

Regards,

Mark


Stephen Hanselman
 

Mark unfortunately the TDS 5,6,7 series while purporting to allow a full automated alignment. The software calls out a voltage standard and a SG 504 and 505. None of which are remote controllable.

Regards,

Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
3107 North Deer Run Road #24
Carson City, Nevada, 89701
(775) 882-5117 office
(775) 720-6020 mobile
s.hanselman@...
www.datagatesystems.com
a Service Disabled, Veteran Owned Small Business
DISCLAIMER:
This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me and permanently delete the original and all copies and printouts of this e-mail and any attachments.

On Feb 3, 2019, at 21:13, Mark Goldberg <marklgoldberg@...> wrote:

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:56 PM Dan Fish <defish1@...> wrote:

I used to calibrate the 500MHz scopes but got rid of the AT PC and GPIB
card. Still have the TM500 series plugins in the equipment list. Recently
bought a TDS 584 (1GHz)

Does anyone know if the calibration procedure and equipment list for the
1GHz scopes is the same as the one I am familiar with for the 500 MHz
scopes? I need to make a decision to gear up again for calibration or
just put it up for sale.

Have you checked with any calibration labs? I have a modern MDO3024 scope
and the calibration is apparently fully automated. Cost is only $134 for an
accredited local third party lab to do it and provide me a cal sticker. My
HP 8642A signal generator costs more than twice as much to calibrate. I
believe much more labor is required. Maybe this scope is new enough to be
easy and not too expensive to calibrate.

Regards,

Mark


Stephen Hanselman
 

I don't have a definitive answer for you, both the 063-2774-01 and 063-3289-01 discs have an "IDX" file for the TDS 580C and TDS580 C&D respectively. They also have a specific file for the 784. The software is fairly parochial about talking to the proper model so I just don't know, but maybe.....

If you know anything about the innards of the software that would be a big help.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Goldberg
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 9:13 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TDS 500 600 700 series calibration

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:56 PM Dan Fish <defish1@...> wrote:

I used to calibrate the 500MHz scopes but got rid of the AT PC and
GPIB card. Still have the TM500 series plugins in the equipment list.
Recently bought a TDS 584 (1GHz)

Does anyone know if the calibration procedure and equipment list for
the 1GHz scopes is the same as the one I am familiar with for the 500 MHz
scopes? I need to make a decision to gear up again for calibration or
just put it up for sale.

Have you checked with any calibration labs? I have a modern MDO3024 scope and the calibration is apparently fully automated. Cost is only $134 for an accredited local third party lab to do it and provide me a cal sticker. My HP 8642A signal generator costs more than twice as much to calibrate. I believe much more labor is required. Maybe this scope is new enough to be easy and not too expensive to calibrate.

Regards,

Mark

Stephen Hanselman
 

I keep wondering about the actual use of the NVRAM on the control PCA in these scopes. I have been extracting the NVRAMS and reading them so I have a fair selection on the dumps. I have run the units without the NVRAM (except the ones that have the Timekeeper/NVRAM and they seem to function fine. However I have moved an initialized(cold start) Acquisition pca between units and the "initialized" status follows the Acq pca. I wonder if the cal data is really stored in the NVRAM. From looking at the dumps it looks to be used mostly for storing screen grabs.

Having said that I could be way off base

Regards,

Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
3107 North Deer Run Road #24
Carson City, Nevada, 89701
(775) 882-5117 office
(775) 720-6020 mobile
s.hanselman@...
www.datagatesystems.com
a Service Disabled, Veteran Owned Small Business
DISCLAIMER:
This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me and permanently delete the original and all copies and printouts of this e-mail and any attachments.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dan Fish
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2019 8:56 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: [TekScopes] TDS 500 600 700 series calibration

I used to calibrate the 500MHz scopes but got rid of the AT PC and GPIB card. Still have the TM500 series plugins in the equipment list. Recently bought a TDS 584 (1GHz) with a bad display, crinkled gel between color shutter and front glass. Fixed that by removing gel. Found I could pull a length of wire (jacketed) between the layers to separate for cleaning. After display fixed found that a previous owner had thrown #3 dip switch to skip processor tests at turn on. This masks the calibration failure due to Dallas NVROM battery run down. So I have a nice pristine 1GHz DSO brick. I do have ability to copy the NVROM and put in a fresh one.

Does anyone know if the calibration procedure and equipment list for the 1GHz scopes is the same as the one I am familiar with for the 500 MHz scopes? I need to make a decision to gear up again for calibration or just put it up for sale.

Thanks, Dan

 

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 07:25 PM, Stephen Hanselman wrote:


I wonder if the cal data is really stored in the NVRAM. From looking at the
dumps it looks to be used mostly for storing screen grabs.
As far as I know they are in flash ROM on the Acq board and other than screen grabs
(or Waveforms) the NVRAM also contains stored settings.

/Håkan

Dan Fish
 

Hakan,

Consistent with the self-test complaining about cal if you mix boards between units. I do know the NVRAM holds purchased options. When I used to calibrate 520s and 540s I would pull the NVRAM, copy it into a fresh Dallas part, reinstall it, and then run the cal. Now I wonder if I was wasting my time. But I do recall a NVRAM location you can edit and turn on the FFT.

Do you know what part fails when you get the CalFails?

Thanks,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of zenith5106
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 2:35 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TDS 500 600 700 series calibration

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 07:25 PM, Stephen Hanselman wrote:


I wonder if the cal data is really stored in the NVRAM. From looking
at the dumps it looks to be used mostly for storing screen grabs.
As far as I know they are in flash ROM on the Acq board and other than screen grabs (or Waveforms) the NVRAM also contains stored settings.

/Håkan

Roy Thistle
 

Hi Dan:
I have a TDS540, that has not been powered up in a couple of years (maybe more!).
When I look from the side, in the right light, I can see some crazing or some wrinkling on at least the top half of the screen (looks like the surface of the plastic, in front of the crt screen, has been damaged by cleaning with a solvent; but, its not the plastic... it's below the plastic.).
Given what I am seeing, I am assuming it is the gel that has degraded?
Regards
Roy

Dan Fish
 

Roy,

Yes, I agree, this is common. You'll see it in pictures on ebay. Some have been happy with removing the gel, some not. I think it helps with light transmission and parallax. But you can remove it as long as your tube still has some life in it. But that is a problem with these scopes with the color shutters, they turn up the tube intensity to get through the shutters and the tube life is shortened.

If you try this, get the tube out. All along the front edge of the black sealant you can peel it back to see the edge of the glass and the start of the layers of the shutters behind. Don't go further than you need to. Just expose the gap between glass and shutters, avoiding the small gauge wires running around the shutters.

Once you see the gap you will see that the edge is sealed with RTV, yellowish white. That's the hard part because you have to pry with tools/blade to pick it out to expose the gel. Once most of the RTV is gone you can get the gel to separate and get the glass off. I did it with a couple feet of 18AWG insulated wire. Start at a corner in a sawing motion until you pull through. The glass should come off easily, don't force it, I broke the first one I tried.

It's a bit of a nasty clean-up to get the gel gone. I didn't try a strong solvent like acetone, although tempted. A good 99% alcohol and plastic scraper gets it. Then put the glass back on using the same gap. There will be enough nubs of RTV to set the gap. I sealed it up with a bead of black RTV.

Good luck!
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> On Behalf Of Roy Thistle
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 5:16 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] TDS 500 600 700 series calibration

Hi Dan:
I have a TDS540, that has not been powered up in a couple of years (maybe more!).
When I look from the side, in the right light, I can see some crazing or some wrinkling on at least the top half of the screen (looks like the surface of the plastic, in front of the crt screen, has been damaged by cleaning with a solvent; but, its not the plastic... it's below the plastic.).
Given what I am seeing, I am assuming it is the gel that has degraded?
Regards
Roy

Harvey White
 

On Mon, 04 Feb 2019 17:15:34 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Dan:
I have a TDS540, that has not been powered up in a couple of years (maybe more!).
When I look from the side, in the right light, I can see some crazing or some wrinkling on at least the top half of the screen (looks like the surface of the plastic, in front of the crt screen, has been damaged by cleaning with a solvent; but, its not the plastic... it's below the plastic.).
Given what I am seeing, I am assuming it is the gel that has degraded?
The 540 is a monochrome output, and has no "gel".

The 544 has the LCD shutter, and therefore, the gel.

Harvey


Regards
Roy


 

It's a bit of a nasty clean-up to get the gel gone. I didn't try a strong solvent like acetone, although tempted. A good 99% alcohol and plastic scraper gets it. Then put the glass back on using the same gap. There will be enough nubs of RTV to set the gap. I sealed it up with a bead of black RTV.
I've found that Goo Gone (and how appropriate that name is!) works great on dissolving that gel. Just scrape off the majority with a soft plastic scraper first.

Jay