Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?


Dan Cordova <danny_cordov@...>
 

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan


Harvey White
 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 13:08:48 -0800, you wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?
Offhand, I'd look for the replacement part and go that way.


The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?
Actually, I've seen them used in two ways, one to limit voltage, the
other to limit voltage in unusual circumstances. The difference is if
the light is supposed to be on normally, or fire (and limit voltage)
if there's an overvoltage circumstance. Such a thing can happen
during warmup or shutdown.

Harvey



TIA
Dan



Jim Ford
 

Dan,
IIRC, Mouser had neon bulbs, but Digi-Key did not.   Bought some a few years back to protect a low-noise amp.  Good luck!
Jim Ford 


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: "Dan Cordova via Groups.Io" <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> Date: 1/23/19 1:08 PM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?
Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan


David Holland
 

They appear to be NE-23's.... Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan



Dan Cordova <danny_cordov@...>
 

Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some. 
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them. 
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of  101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's....  Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P  )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan



Leon Robinson
 

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?

Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some. 
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them. 
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of  101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's....  Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P  )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan



Harvey White
 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage. Ought to
lower it, though. No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey



Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some. 
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them. 
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of  101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's....  Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P  )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan









Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
 

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage. Ought to
lower it, though. No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey



Leon Robinson K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some.
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them.
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of 101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's.... Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan












 

A 575, 576, or 577 curve tracer is ideal for doing this. Be sure to use a 100K or equivalent load resistor so the bulb doesn't draw so much current it will burn up.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Harris
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult to test the strike voltage
in various ambient lighting conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage. Ought to
lower it, though. No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey

Leon Robinson K5JLR

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via
Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some.
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working
order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them.
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a
radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of 101 years, emits beta particles
(when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow
at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with
Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan
On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland
<david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's.... Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9k
JiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQ
JjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I
literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has
power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a
resistor in place?

TIA
Dan


--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator


Dave Wise
 

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube. Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage. I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful. I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage. Ought to
lower it, though. No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey



Leon Robinson K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some.
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them.
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of 101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's.... Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan












Dan Cordova <danny_cordov@...>
 

While I appreciate the help, this talk about strike voltage confuses me.
I'm not sure what the two neon lamps that I broke the leads are B826 and B827, listed as NE-23, are used for strike voltage?
There are several other neon lamps in different circuits on this curve tracer. I thought they were there to show that voltage and current were running through that part of the circuit.
Dan

On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 8:45:48 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube.  Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage.  I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful.  I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage.  Ought to
lower it, though.  No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey



Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

  Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some.
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them.
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of  101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's....  Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P  )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan












Dave Wise
 

Tek 500-series scope applications of neon lamps are typically as voltage limiters, not references or multivibrators. Circuit voltage can rise to the strike voltage before the lamp begins to limit.

I don't know whether the 575 also uses its lamps as limiters, but I expect that it does. Sorry, don't have time to study the schematics. I'm sure many others here know it better than me.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:01 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

While I appreciate the help, this talk about strike voltage confuses me.
I'm not sure what the two neon lamps that I broke the leads are B826 and B827, listed as NE-23, are used for strike voltage?
There are several other neon lamps in different circuits on this curve tracer. I thought they were there to show that voltage and current were running through that part of the circuit.
Dan
On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 8:45:48 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube. Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage. I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful. I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris


Harvey White
 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:01:23 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

While I appreciate the help, this talk about strike voltage confuses me.
I'm not sure what the two neon lamps that I broke the leads are B826 and B827, listed as NE-23, are used for strike voltage?
There are several other neon lamps in different circuits on this curve tracer. I thought they were there to show that voltage and current were running through that part of the circuit.
There's two ways of using a neon lamp. One is a simple indicator to
show that there is voltage or current. Typically, about 1.2 ma or so
goes through the lamp (120 volts/100K or so ohms). The NE2H varieties
take about twice the current and are brighter (H = high brightness).

The other way is to use it much like a zener, that is, to limit the
voltage differential between two points in a circuit. When the lamp
fires (the strike voltage), it starts to conduct, which causes current
to go through it, limiting the voltage to what's called the
"maintaining voltage". The maintaining voltage is lower than the
strike voltage.

Supposedly, the temporary overvoltage condition goes away, voltage
across the lamp goes below the maintaining voltage, and the circuit is
protected.

A zener diode works just about the same way, but is more stable, and
has effectively tighter tolerances.

Harvey



Dan
On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 8:45:48 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube.  Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage.  I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful.  I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage.  Ought to
lower it, though.  No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey



Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

  Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some.
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them.
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of  101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's....  Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P  )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan



















David DiGiacomo
 

If you look at the manual on BAMA, B826 and B827 are limiting the
voltage across the intensity pot. I can't tell if they are on in
normal operation. Usually Tek didn't do that.

In this version of the manual, they are listed as NE-2, so Dan should
feel free to try any old neon bulbs.


Dan Cordova <danny_cordov@...>
 

I can get the NE-23 bulbs, so that's what I will replace them with, especially since that's what's on the schematic.
Thanks for the help.
Dan

On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 11:11:44 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

Tek 500-series scope applications of neon lamps are typically as voltage limiters, not references or multivibrators.  Circuit voltage can rise to the strike voltage before the lamp begins to limit.

I don't know whether the 575 also uses its lamps as limiters, but I expect that it does.  Sorry, don't have time to study the schematics.  I'm sure many others here know it better than me.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:01 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

While I appreciate the help, this talk about strike voltage confuses me.
I'm not sure what the two neon lamps that I broke the leads are B826 and B827, listed as NE-23, are used for strike voltage?
There are several other neon lamps in different circuits on this curve tracer. I thought they were there to show that voltage and current were running through that part of the circuit.
Dan
    On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 8:45:48 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube.  Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage.  I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful.  I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris


n4buq
 

The most fun with a neon is, in the wintertime, to hold one lead of a neon bulb between your thumb and finger, scrub your shoes across the carpet, and then touch the other lead to ground (or to someone else who has a significantly lower ground potential than you do at the moment).

Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harvey White" <madyn@dragonworks.info>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 1:35:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:01:23 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

There's two ways of using a neon lamp. One is a simple indicator to
show that there is voltage or current. Typically, about 1.2 ma or so
goes through the lamp (120 volts/100K or so ohms). The NE2H varieties
take about twice the current and are brighter (H = high brightness).

The other way is to use it much like a zener, that is, to limit the
voltage differential between two points in a circuit. When the lamp
fires (the strike voltage), it starts to conduct, which causes current
to go through it, limiting the voltage to what's called the
"maintaining voltage". The maintaining voltage is lower than the
strike voltage.

Supposedly, the temporary overvoltage condition goes away, voltage
across the lamp goes below the maintaining voltage, and the circuit is
protected.

A zener diode works just about the same way, but is more stable, and
has effectively tighter tolerances.

Harvey


Dave Wise
 

Yep. Put 'em in and enjoy. NE-23 aka 5AB are still abundant and cheap; 5AB-BT is $0.80 each at Mouser, with over 4000 in stock. (Note that these are "circuit lamps", not indicator lamps. Light output is beside the point. Indicators are usually NE-2 aka A1B.)

Remember to use a silver-bearing solder on the ceramic strips; solder that doesn't contain a couple percent will slowly dissolve the contacts.

Regards,
Dave
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:38 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I can get the NE-23 bulbs, so that's what I will replace them with, especially since that's what's on the schematic.
Thanks for the help.
Dan


On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 11:11:44 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

Tek 500-series scope applications of neon lamps are typically as voltage limiters, not references or multivibrators. Circuit voltage can rise to the strike voltage before the lamp begins to limit.

I don't know whether the 575 also uses its lamps as limiters, but I expect that it does. Sorry, don't have time to study the schematics. I'm sure many others here know it better than me.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:01 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

While I appreciate the help, this talk about strike voltage confuses me.
I'm not sure what the two neon lamps that I broke the leads are B826 and B827, listed as NE-23, are used for strike voltage?
There are several other neon lamps in different circuits on this curve tracer. I thought they were there to show that voltage and current were running through that part of the circuit.
Dan
On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 8:45:48 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube. Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage. I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful. I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris


Dan Cordova <danny_cordov@...>
 

Interesting. 
The main symptom of the problem was that the neon lights do not light up, and the CRT doesn't display.
This all occurred because I removed all the tubes to clean up the curve tracer and didn't replace the 12AU7 tube (V804) in the CRT circuit. V804 sits back behind 
So far, I've had to replace all the paper capacitors in the CRT circuit and am awaiting new neon lamps, hoping that that will take care of the problem.
Moral to the story is to read the manual where it tells you not to go muck with the river and remove the tubes to clean up some minor dirt and dust. I also learned that you should make sure you replace all the tubes, instead of wondering how a RCA clear top 12AU7 tube magically turned up on the workbench.
Dan

On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 11:36:04 AM PST, Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 19:01:23 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

While I appreciate the help, this talk about strike voltage confuses me.
I'm not sure what the two neon lamps that I broke the leads are B826 and B827, listed as NE-23, are used for strike voltage?
There are several other neon lamps in different circuits on this curve tracer. I thought they were there to show that voltage and current were running through that part of the circuit.
There's two ways of using a neon lamp.  One is a simple indicator to
show that there is voltage or current.  Typically, about 1.2 ma or so
goes through the lamp (120 volts/100K or so ohms).  The NE2H varieties
take about twice the current and are brighter (H = high brightness).

The other way is to use it much like a zener, that is, to limit the
voltage differential between two points in a circuit.  When the lamp
fires (the strike voltage), it starts to conduct, which causes current
to go through it, limiting the voltage to what's called the
"maintaining voltage".  The maintaining voltage is lower than the
strike voltage.

Supposedly, the temporary overvoltage condition goes away, voltage
across the lamp goes below the maintaining voltage, and the circuit is
protected.

A zener diode works just about the same way, but is more stable, and
has effectively tighter tolerances.

Harvey



Dan
    On Thursday, January 24, 2019, 8:45:48 AM PST, Dave Wise <david_wise@phoenix.com> wrote:

I investigated this when I was exploring repairs for my HP 141T A2V1 ZZ1000 voltage reference glow tube.  Illuminating an NE-2 reduced the strike time much more than the strike voltage.  I tried several lamps and all did the same.

Illuminating the VR tube did neither enough to be useful.  I replaced it with a TL431/zener combo, see https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=68333 .

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Chuck Harris <cfharris@erols.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2019 7:07 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix Neon Light replacement parts?

I shouldn't think it would be all that difficult
to test the strike voltage in various ambient lighting
conditions, both with and without the blue led...

-Chuck Harris

Harvey White wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 01:09:54 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

What about plain NE-2's and 1 or more blue led's shining on it?
Not sure what this would do for accuracy of strike voltage.  Ought to
lower it, though.  No idea if it would stay constant, either.

(have a power strip with the usual flickering neons, UV light or blue
light and they go on....)

Harvey



Leon Robinson    K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.
Politicians and Diapers should be changed
often and for the same reasons.

    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30:01 PM CST, Dan Cordova via Groups.Io <danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

  Hi David,
Thank you for your prompt reply!
I found the lamps on the schematic and ordered some.
Once these are installed, the curve tracer should be back in working order. I found three paper caps that were bad and replaced them.
Speaking of radiation- I have a EG&G KN-2 tube that has Ni-63. It is a radioactive isotope of nickel, half life of  101 years, emits beta particles (when functioning). It was used for triggering a laser.
I'm retired from Sandia National Laboratories after 30+ years, don't glow at night, and haven't suffered any ill effects (yet) from soldering with Sn/Pb solder.
Thanks again for the info.
Dan




    On Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 4:06:54 PM PST, David Holland <david.w.holland@gmail.com> wrote:

They appear to be NE-23's....  Eg: NE2's + Radioactive gas (that's no
longer radioactive by now) :-)

I'd probably just go with bog standard A1A's, as I don't believe
they're particularly critical (though I did not look).

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/A1A?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsEIsGLxVc9kJiHZr4x%252btYO

But if you want a little more radiation in your life, and be more
correct I gather they're called 5AB's now.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/5AB-BT?qs=oFdBtU78F3wIszsEPQJjcA%3D%3D

(No, I don't think there's any radiation danger, though I don't
recommend huffing a 5AB... :-P  )

David

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:08 PM Dan Cordova via Groups.Io
<danny_cordov=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello- while replacing bad capacitors on my Tektronix 575 Curve Tracer, I literally touched a couple of the neon lights and broke the leads.

Is there a replacement part the group can recommend?

The neon lights are useful to show at a glance that the circuit has power, but can the lights be replaced with a wire, or would I need to put a resistor in place?

TIA
Dan



















Cliff Carrie
 

The wires through the glass of a neon lamp are made of Kovar, an iron-nickel-cobalt alloy with a coefficient of thermal expansion similar to that of hard (borosilicate) glass. Kovar is more brittle than copper and may be made more so by the glass processing temperatures. Also, copper connecting wires may be welded to the Kovar leads very close to the glass, all making this a weak area where stress and flexing should be avoided.

You really need to look at the parts list and wiring diagrams for each neon you replace. Tek used them for many purposes besides indicators. You will find neon voltage clamps in scope CRT circuits. They have been used as protection clamps on timebase trigger inputs. Many of these light up only briefly if at all, and will last a long time. Neons left on continuously will age badly. We have all seen power bars with a flickering or dead neon. As they age, the strike voltage and the extinguishing voltage rise very significantly. I have confirmed this with my 7CT1N curve tracer. I have tested photosensitivity; the strike voltage drops by a few volts with bright illumination. Isotope filled neons are supposed to be less photosensitive. There was an NE2-looking voltage regulator in the 3B3 timebase delay circuit (the Philips ZZ1000, about twice as long as an NE-2 and blackened on the inside). Even more exotic was the NE77, a three electrode device that behaves a bit like a thyristor, but I never saw it in Tek gear. I have about 12 pages of 1962 vintage GE catalog information on these and other glow lamps if anyone is interested.

Cliff Carrie
________________________________