Topics

260-2500-00 Encoder

Sergey Kubushyn
 

There was some announcement a year or so ago that somebody has several of
those in stock. Don't know who it was and if there are still some available
bue I need one for my recently acquired CG5011 that arrived with a broken
inner shaft, Variable control.

If somebody has this one I will be happy to pay a reasonable price and
shipping from anywhere on on Earth. A front panel with that encoder intact
from an otherwise damaged CG5010/5011 would also do as well as non-working
CG5010/5011 at a reasonable price.

---
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* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Jacques DULONGPONT
 

Hello

This solution may be of help to your problem.

Jacques

Le sam. 19 oct. 2019 à 06:43, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

There was some announcement a year or so ago that somebody has several of
those in stock. Don't know who it was and if there are still some available
bue I need one for my recently acquired CG5011 that arrived with a broken
inner shaft, Variable control.

If somebody has this one I will be happy to pay a reasonable price and
shipping from anywhere on on Earth. A front panel with that encoder intact
from an otherwise damaged CG5010/5011 would also do as well as non-working
CG5010/5011 at a reasonable price.

---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************



Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Mon, 21 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

What is "this" solution?

Hello

This solution may be of help to your problem.

Jacques

Le sam. 19 oct. 2019 à 06:43, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

There was some announcement a year or so ago that somebody has several of
those in stock. Don't know who it was and if there are still some available
bue I need one for my recently acquired CG5011 that arrived with a broken
inner shaft, Variable control.

If somebody has this one I will be happy to pay a reasonable price and
shipping from anywhere on on Earth. A front panel with that encoder intact
from an otherwise damaged CG5010/5011 would also do as well as non-working
CG5010/5011 at a reasonable price.
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Jacques DULONGPONT
 

I had attached in my message a memo describing a solution to replace the
Tek encoder with another source of encoder. Could you read it?

Jacques

Le lun. 21 oct. 2019 à 16:28, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Mon, 21 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

What is "this" solution?

Hello

This solution may be of help to your problem.

Jacques

Le sam. 19 oct. 2019 à 06:43, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

There was some announcement a year or so ago that somebody has several
of
those in stock. Don't know who it was and if there are still some
available
bue I need one for my recently acquired CG5011 that arrived with a
broken
inner shaft, Variable control.

If somebody has this one I will be happy to pay a reasonable price and
shipping from anywhere on on Earth. A front panel with that encoder
intact
from an otherwise damaged CG5010/5011 would also do as well as
non-working
CG5010/5011 at a reasonable price.
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************



Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Mon, 21 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

Nope, no attachments found. They do not make it into group email. Would you
please re-send it to my email directly (it is my actual email in my
messages) so it would go through?

I had attached in my message a memo describing a solution to replace the
Tek encoder with another source of encoder. Could you read it?

Jacques

Le lun. 21 oct. 2019 à 16:28, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Mon, 21 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

What is "this" solution?

Hello

This solution may be of help to your problem.

Jacques

Le sam. 19 oct. 2019 à 06:43, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

There was some announcement a year or so ago that somebody has several
of
those in stock. Don't know who it was and if there are still some
available
bue I need one for my recently acquired CG5011 that arrived with a
broken
inner shaft, Variable control.

If somebody has this one I will be happy to pay a reasonable price and
shipping from anywhere on on Earth. A front panel with that encoder
intact
from an otherwise damaged CG5010/5011 would also do as well as
non-working
CG5010/5011 at a reasonable price.
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Clark Foley
 

I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the part number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as what was finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual Encoder for Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction (that one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they have 28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is broken off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not in their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very helpful as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a couple no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet 700 are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703 Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there). Having those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...


I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the part number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as what was finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual Encoder for Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction (that one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they have 28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is broken off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not in their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very helpful as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a couple no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet 700 are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703 Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there). Having those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...


I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as what was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual Encoder for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

These might be a suitable candidates:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292950522330
https://www.ebay.com/itm/161110042181

The first one definitely comes from China -- it has "Extended Handling Time"
or however they called it -- but it is cheaper than other one and comes with
a set of knobs. It has push-button switch that is useless for CG5011 but it
won't hurt. And it looks like a right length so no need for sawing off
shafts. I placed an order for a set of two, we'll see what I get.

The other one is nicer and it is Clarostat but it has long shafts that would
almost certainly require sawing. Sent a $20 offer for one, we'll see what it
gets...

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction (that one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they have
28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but
exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just
recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is broken
off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something
custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not in
their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from
Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very helpful
as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a couple no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet 700
are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703 Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there). Having
those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...

I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as what
was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual Encoder
for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Jacques DULONGPONT
 

Beware Sergey, the encoder must deliver a gray code and with stable state
with each detent. The samples I had tested were delivering pulses during
the change of state which is not working on a CG5011. The CTS encoder I
have used is ok.

Jacques

Le mer. 23 oct. 2019 à 07:17, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

These might be a suitable candidates:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292950522330
https://www.ebay.com/itm/161110042181

The first one definitely comes from China -- it has "Extended Handling
Time"
or however they called it -- but it is cheaper than other one and comes
with
a set of knobs. It has push-button switch that is useless for CG5011 but it
won't hurt. And it looks like a right length so no need for sawing off
shafts. I placed an order for a set of two, we'll see what I get.

The other one is nicer and it is Clarostat but it has long shafts that
would
almost certainly require sawing. Sent a $20 offer for one, we'll see what
it
gets...

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same
company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction (that
one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they
have
28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one
seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but
exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just
recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is broken
off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something
custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come
out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not in
their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from
Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very
helpful
as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a couple
no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet
700
are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703
Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there). Having
those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using
those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...


I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the
part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as what
was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual Encoder
for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************



Clark Foley
 

I can send a mechanical sample to you if you want to try to replace the shaft in your original encoder. The mechanical parts are fine but the electrical endcoding does not match the detents. You can salvage all of the package parts including the solder tails which are reversible for rear mounting. The shafts are grey and the case is black!

Clark

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

It would've been very nice. I will send my address in a personal email.

I can send a mechanical sample to you if you want to try to replace the
shaft in your original encoder. The mechanical parts are fine but the
electrical endcoding does not match the detents. You can salvage all of
the package parts including the solder tails which are reversible for rear
mounting. The shafts are grey and the case is black!

Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

Eh, all quadrature encoders are Gray code output devices :) As of delivering
pulses -- they don't. It only happens if you use an encoder with too many
PPR so steady intervals are very small and it is almost impossible to hold
it within such interval. Then, yet another problem with such devices is that
they are too fast for that processor inside CG5011 that almost certainly
doesn't have hardware encoder interface so it uses polling mechanism to
check A/B phases state. But that is not all yet, it is even worse -- that
Oak Gribsby encoder is a mechanical device so its signal must be debounced
that makes everything even slower, probably by order of magnitude.

Previous model, CG5001 (?) used OPTICAL encoder that didn't have much bounce
so it's been much faster and CPU was able to process its signals because
there was no debouncing delays. However it used a grain-of-wheat bulb as its
light source that didn't last forever and required periodic replacement but
I can swear it was not the main reason why Tektronix switched to that 70098
Oak Gribsby one. The primary reason was that junky mechanical 70098 was much
cheaper than optical one and they couldn't resist saving a dime...

Beware Sergey, the encoder must deliver a gray code and with stable state
with each detent. The samples I had tested were delivering pulses during
the change of state which is not working on a CG5011. The CTS encoder I
have used is ok.

Jacques

Le mer. 23 oct. 2019 à 07:17, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

These might be a suitable candidates:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292950522330
https://www.ebay.com/itm/161110042181

The first one definitely comes from China -- it has "Extended Handling
Time"
or however they called it -- but it is cheaper than other one and comes
with
a set of knobs. It has push-button switch that is useless for CG5011 but it
won't hurt. And it looks like a right length so no need for sawing off
shafts. I placed an order for a set of two, we'll see what I get.

The other one is nicer and it is Clarostat but it has long shafts that
would
almost certainly require sawing. Sent a $20 offer for one, we'll see what
it
gets...

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same
company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction (that
one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they
have
28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one
seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but
exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just
recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is broken
off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something
custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come
out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not in
their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from
Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very
helpful
as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a couple
no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet
700
are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703
Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there). Having
those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using
those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...


I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the
part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as what
was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual Encoder
for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************




---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

OK, follow up to myself :)

There are 2 types of detented quadrature rotary encoders. Those with number
of detents equal to number of PPR (Pulses Per Revolution) won't work -- they
always stop with both phases either low or down. These are those Jacques
have been warning about. They e.g. have 24 detents and 24 PPR.

The proper ones for this application should have 4 detents per PPR i.e. 24
detents for 6 PPR encoder. They stop at all phase combinations thus
providing 2-bit Gray code.

Here are a couple of encoders from DigiKey that can be used for building a
proper 24-detent encoder for CG5011:

ESD0D-S00-GC0006L (DigiKey p/n ESD0D-S00-GC0006L-ND)
ECW0J-B24-CC0006L (DigiKey p/n ECW0J-B24-CC0006L-ND)

The first one is _SHAFTLESS_ and can be used to make a lower encoder, the
second one has shaft and can be used for making upper part of dual encoder.
They would require some mechanical work to make a concentric dual-shaft
encoder that was used in CG5011 so it is not a quick replacement but it is a
good starting point and those are in stock. They are 6PPR 24detents encoders
i.e. the right one for CG5011.

As a side note regular (not instrument-control, panel mount) optical
encoders don't have detents so they stop wherever they are left and the
entire "Detents per PPR" thing simply doesn't apply -- they will all work.
It might be not an easy task to find very low PPR ones (something like 12PPR
at most, better 4 or 6 otherwise they would be _EXTREMELY_ sensitive) but
that is a different matter... Any encoder from any instrument should
probably work OK but it might need some electrical interfacing (look e.g. at
CG5001 schematic that had _OPTICAL_ encoder at the same place.)


On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

Eh, all quadrature encoders are Gray code output devices :) As of delivering
pulses -- they don't. It only happens if you use an encoder with too many
PPR so steady intervals are very small and it is almost impossible to hold
it within such interval. Then, yet another problem with such devices is that
they are too fast for that processor inside CG5011 that almost certainly
doesn't have hardware encoder interface so it uses polling mechanism to
check A/B phases state. But that is not all yet, it is even worse -- that
Oak Gribsby encoder is a mechanical device so its signal must be debounced
that makes everything even slower, probably by order of magnitude.

Previous model, CG5001 (?) used OPTICAL encoder that didn't have much bounce
so it's been much faster and CPU was able to process its signals because
there was no debouncing delays. However it used a grain-of-wheat bulb as its
light source that didn't last forever and required periodic replacement but
I can swear it was not the main reason why Tektronix switched to that 70098
Oak Gribsby one. The primary reason was that junky mechanical 70098 was much
cheaper than optical one and they couldn't resist saving a dime...

Beware Sergey, the encoder must deliver a gray code and with stable state
with each detent. The samples I had tested were delivering pulses during
the change of state which is not working on a CG5011. The CTS encoder I
have used is ok.

Jacques

Le mer. 23 oct. 2019 à 07:17, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

These might be a suitable candidates:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292950522330
https://www.ebay.com/itm/161110042181

The first one definitely comes from China -- it has "Extended Handling
Time"
or however they called it -- but it is cheaper than other one and comes
with
a set of knobs. It has push-button switch that is useless for CG5011 but
it
won't hurt. And it looks like a right length so no need for sawing off
shafts. I placed an order for a set of two, we'll see what I get.

The other one is nicer and it is Clarostat but it has long shafts that
would
almost certainly require sawing. Sent a $20 offer for one, we'll see what
it
gets...

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same
company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction (that
one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they
have
28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one
seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but
exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just
recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is
broken
off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something
custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come
out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not in
their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from
Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very
helpful
as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a couple
no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet
700
are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703
Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there). Having
those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using
those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...

I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have the
part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as
what
was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual
Encoder
for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Jacques DULONGPONT
 

Sergey,

thanks for the clarification.

Jacques

Le ven. 25 oct. 2019 à 08:26, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

OK, follow up to myself :)

There are 2 types of detented quadrature rotary encoders. Those with number
of detents equal to number of PPR (Pulses Per Revolution) won't work --
they
always stop with both phases either low or down. These are those Jacques
have been warning about. They e.g. have 24 detents and 24 PPR.

The proper ones for this application should have 4 detents per PPR i.e. 24
detents for 6 PPR encoder. They stop at all phase combinations thus
providing 2-bit Gray code.

Here are a couple of encoders from DigiKey that can be used for building a
proper 24-detent encoder for CG5011:

ESD0D-S00-GC0006L (DigiKey p/n ESD0D-S00-GC0006L-ND)
ECW0J-B24-CC0006L (DigiKey p/n ECW0J-B24-CC0006L-ND)

The first one is _SHAFTLESS_ and can be used to make a lower encoder, the
second one has shaft and can be used for making upper part of dual encoder.
They would require some mechanical work to make a concentric dual-shaft
encoder that was used in CG5011 so it is not a quick replacement but it is
a
good starting point and those are in stock. They are 6PPR 24detents
encoders
i.e. the right one for CG5011.

As a side note regular (not instrument-control, panel mount) optical
encoders don't have detents so they stop wherever they are left and the
entire "Detents per PPR" thing simply doesn't apply -- they will all work.
It might be not an easy task to find very low PPR ones (something like
12PPR
at most, better 4 or 6 otherwise they would be _EXTREMELY_ sensitive) but
that is a different matter... Any encoder from any instrument should
probably work OK but it might need some electrical interfacing (look e.g.
at
CG5001 schematic that had _OPTICAL_ encoder at the same place.)


On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

Eh, all quadrature encoders are Gray code output devices :) As of
delivering
pulses -- they don't. It only happens if you use an encoder with too many
PPR so steady intervals are very small and it is almost impossible to
hold
it within such interval. Then, yet another problem with such devices is
that
they are too fast for that processor inside CG5011 that almost certainly
doesn't have hardware encoder interface so it uses polling mechanism to
check A/B phases state. But that is not all yet, it is even worse -- that
Oak Gribsby encoder is a mechanical device so its signal must be
debounced
that makes everything even slower, probably by order of magnitude.

Previous model, CG5001 (?) used OPTICAL encoder that didn't have much
bounce
so it's been much faster and CPU was able to process its signals because
there was no debouncing delays. However it used a grain-of-wheat bulb as
its
light source that didn't last forever and required periodic replacement
but
I can swear it was not the main reason why Tektronix switched to that
70098
Oak Gribsby one. The primary reason was that junky mechanical 70098 was
much
cheaper than optical one and they couldn't resist saving a dime...

Beware Sergey, the encoder must deliver a gray code and with stable
state
with each detent. The samples I had tested were delivering pulses
during
the change of state which is not working on a CG5011. The CTS encoder I
have used is ok.

Jacques

Le mer. 23 oct. 2019 à 07:17, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

These might be a suitable candidates:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292950522330
https://www.ebay.com/itm/161110042181

The first one definitely comes from China -- it has "Extended Handling
Time"
or however they called it -- but it is cheaper than other one and
comes
with
a set of knobs. It has push-button switch that is useless for CG5011
but
it
won't hurt. And it looks like a right length so no need for sawing off
shafts. I placed an order for a set of two, we'll see what I get.

The other one is nicer and it is Clarostat but it has long shafts that
would
almost certainly require sawing. Sent a $20 offer for one, we'll see
what
it
gets...

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same
company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction
(that
one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and
they
have
28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle
one
seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK
but
exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just
recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is
broken
off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder
is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something
custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might
come
out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is
definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not
in
their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from
Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very
helpful
as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a
couple
no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the
datasheet
700
are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703
Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there).
Having
those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using
those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...


I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have
the
part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as
what
was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual
Encoder
for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in
the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************



Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

One more followup to myself :) Got that encoder from Clark Foley today,
checked it and it should work in CG5011. It has 16 detents on outer shaft
instead of 28 in original one and 32 on inner shaft but that should not
matter much. It generates the right codes and it is exactly same
mechanically. The only thing required is to remove PCB pins and re-solder
them on the other side as they are pointing down instead of up. Didn't try
it in my CG5011 yet, going to do it tonight and will post results here.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

OK, follow up to myself :)

There are 2 types of detented quadrature rotary encoders. Those with number
of detents equal to number of PPR (Pulses Per Revolution) won't work -- they
always stop with both phases either low or down. These are those Jacques
have been warning about. They e.g. have 24 detents and 24 PPR.

The proper ones for this application should have 4 detents per PPR i.e. 24
detents for 6 PPR encoder. They stop at all phase combinations thus
providing 2-bit Gray code.

Here are a couple of encoders from DigiKey that can be used for building a
proper 24-detent encoder for CG5011:

ESD0D-S00-GC0006L (DigiKey p/n ESD0D-S00-GC0006L-ND)
ECW0J-B24-CC0006L (DigiKey p/n ECW0J-B24-CC0006L-ND)

The first one is _SHAFTLESS_ and can be used to make a lower encoder, the
second one has shaft and can be used for making upper part of dual encoder.
They would require some mechanical work to make a concentric dual-shaft
encoder that was used in CG5011 so it is not a quick replacement but it is a
good starting point and those are in stock. They are 6PPR 24detents encoders
i.e. the right one for CG5011.

As a side note regular (not instrument-control, panel mount) optical
encoders don't have detents so they stop wherever they are left and the
entire "Detents per PPR" thing simply doesn't apply -- they will all work.
It might be not an easy task to find very low PPR ones (something like 12PPR
at most, better 4 or 6 otherwise they would be _EXTREMELY_ sensitive) but
that is a different matter... Any encoder from any instrument should
probably work OK but it might need some electrical interfacing (look e.g. at
CG5001 schematic that had _OPTICAL_ encoder at the same place.)


On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, Jacques DULONGPONT wrote:

Eh, all quadrature encoders are Gray code output devices :) As of
delivering
pulses -- they don't. It only happens if you use an encoder with too many
PPR so steady intervals are very small and it is almost impossible to hold
it within such interval. Then, yet another problem with such devices is
that
they are too fast for that processor inside CG5011 that almost certainly
doesn't have hardware encoder interface so it uses polling mechanism to
check A/B phases state. But that is not all yet, it is even worse -- that
Oak Gribsby encoder is a mechanical device so its signal must be debounced
that makes everything even slower, probably by order of magnitude.

Previous model, CG5001 (?) used OPTICAL encoder that didn't have much
bounce
so it's been much faster and CPU was able to process its signals because
there was no debouncing delays. However it used a grain-of-wheat bulb as
its
light source that didn't last forever and required periodic replacement
but
I can swear it was not the main reason why Tektronix switched to that
70098
Oak Gribsby one. The primary reason was that junky mechanical 70098 was
much
cheaper than optical one and they couldn't resist saving a dime...

Beware Sergey, the encoder must deliver a gray code and with stable
state
with each detent. The samples I had tested were delivering pulses during
the change of state which is not working on a CG5011. The CTS encoder I
have used is ok.

Jacques

Le mer. 23 oct. 2019 à 07:17, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> a écrit :

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

These might be a suitable candidates:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292950522330
https://www.ebay.com/itm/161110042181

The first one definitely comes from China -- it has "Extended Handling
Time"
or however they called it -- but it is cheaper than other one and comes
with
a set of knobs. It has push-button switch that is useless for CG5011
but
it
won't hurt. And it looks like a right length so no need for sawing off
shafts. I placed an order for a set of two, we'll see what I get.

The other one is nicer and it is Clarostat but it has long shafts that
would
almost certainly require sawing. Sent a $20 offer for one, we'll see
what
it
gets...

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

BTW, the full Oak Grigsby part number is 70098-0020.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

Those look similar but it is not what's in CG5011. It is the same
company,
OAKGRIGSBY, but they have leads coming in the opposite direction
(that
one
in CG5011 has leads towards the shafts, not away from them) and they
have
28
(zic!) detents. Paper label on tha back reads:

OAKGRIGSBY
70098
9624

The last line is almost certainly manufacturing date. The middle one
seems
to be their model/part number. What I have in my CG5011 is BLACK but
exposed
shaft ends look gray. The outer encoder has 28 detents, I've just
recounted
them several times. Don't know about internal shaft, that one is
broken
off.

Oak Grigsby was acquired by Electroswitch in 2003 and that encoder
is
definitely part of their 700 series:

http://www.electro-nc.com/oak/pdf3638.pdf

However those are all SINGLE shaft ones so this should be something
custom.

I've just sent them an RFQ with short explanation so they might come
out
with something (don't hold you breath yet, guys). But it is
definitely
custom because their Cross Reference to OakGrigsby tells it is not
in
their
database. BTW, they are in Raleigh, NC so if there is somebody from
Raleigh
here he could've paid them a visit and ask politely for help...

Provided they were of no help those 705-16-16 would've been very
helpful
as
a source for mechanical parts and it would've be nice to get a
couple
no
matter what. They are of unknown variety (according to the datasheet
700
are
Quadrature, 701 Quadrature with Push-button, 702 Absolute, 703
Resistive,
and 704 Resistive with Push-button -- there are no 705s there).
Having
those
705-16-16 ones I would be probably able to make a working one using
those
and parts from my broken encoder in CG5011...

I have a few encoder samples from that era but they do not have
the
part
number. I cannot be certain that my old samples are the same as
what
was
finally used in the CG5011.

I posted some photographs to the group's photo album as "Dual
Encoder
for
Panel Knobs" for your reference.
Let me know whether or not this description matches the part in
the
CG5011.

My encoder sample:
mounting bushing: 3/8 inch diameter (two flat sides)
outer shaft: 1/4 inch diameter, 5/8 inch long
inner shaft: 1/8 inch diameter, 1/2 inch long
encoding for both: 16 cycles with 16 detents
solder tail contacts on 0.1 inch centers

All the best,
Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************



---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Clark Foley
 

Sergey,
Take care to verify that the detents and codes are compatible. The unit that I sent has one detent for each 1/4 phase of the quadrature. Some designs that integrated encoders relied on the full quadrature cycle and some smarter designs used 1/4 cycles. I recommend that you wire some jumpers across to the CS5011 before reversing tail pins and such.

Anyway, I hope that you can make something of it.

Clark

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Mon, 28 Oct 2019, Clark Foley wrote:

OK, I was too quick to draw :(

Just disassembled my CG5011. Electrically and mechanically those are
compatible, no worries here. However it is _NOT_ a replacement for CG5011
encoder :( The problem is the shaft is too short. Original encoder has 3/4"
long outer shaft measured from the end of threaded mount. Yours is 1/2" that
makes it too short...

Pins are also a bit short to just reverse them (and switch between blades)
to be used as-is but that is not a problem whatsoever and they almost fit.

Just re-checked electrical fit -- original encoder has same 4 detents per
pulse, both outer and inner shafts (top and bottom plates) and pinout is
same too so it it would've been almost exact fit if it had 1/4" longer
shafts...

Sergey,
Take care to verify that the detents and codes are compatible. The unit
that I sent has one detent for each 1/4 phase of the quadrature. Some
designs that integrated encoders relied on the full quadrature cycle and
some smarter designs used 1/4 cycles. I recommend that you wire some
jumpers across to the CS5011 before reversing tail pins and such.

Anyway, I hope that you can make something of it.

Clark
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************

Clark Foley
 

Pity

Clark Foley
 

If the inner shaft is long enough, try to scavenge it from the unit that I sent. After you tear into it, you can decide if it is possible to replace the broken one. Have fun!