Topics

Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

EricJ
 

Yes Stefan, I have mine, still use it. I'm using a Metcal PS2E-01 power unit with mine. The power units can be had on eBay pretty cheap these days, and since this older unit produces the same 13MHz frequency as the newer ones a good Metcal iron will plug right in and work with the same power supply also. Happy to answer any questions that I can.
Regarding the air line length, I use mine straight from a homemade "silent" compressor with a 5 gallon tank next to my bench at the end of an air line that may be 6 feet long, so no issues of that sort for me. I also use the tip cleaners frequently and thus have not really had to battle many clogging issues.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> Date: 7/27/18 10:41 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I wasn't familiar with the Metcal MX-DS1 and it does look rather good, thanks!

Do either one of you, or maybe both, currently have that system?
If so, please tell me which model, especially also of the control station.

I have to read up on it and if any questions remain I hope I can put
them to you.
Information from actual users is often much more valueable than from
sales staff ;-).

See, a rant sometimes isn't entirely futile.

ST

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 1:50 AM, tom jobe <tomjobe@...> wrote:
I have had that same Metcal MX desoldering system for years, and I found
that being connected with a fairly long air hose (25 feet?) limited the air
pressure available to the desoldering gun used to make its vacuum. An old
Freon tank of a few gallon capacity was turned into an air pressure
reservoir and installed between the Metcal desoldering gun and the air
pressure line. That improved things a lot as there was now full air pressure
available at the instant you pulled the trigger.
Keeping the nozzles clear of solder is the main problem, but frequent use of
the available Metcal tip cleaning rods can partially keep you on top of that
problem.
The Metcal cleaning rod set is just a customized version of the same tip
cleaners a welder uses to keep his gas welding tips clean, but the Metcal
set of cleaning tips are longer and sized to the standard Metcal tip
diameters.
The only other real issue is keeping the 'business end' of the desoldering
tips 'wetted' with fresh solder, and I never have solved that problem.
tom jobe...



On 7/27/2018 3:27 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:

Yes, the good venturi models have much better suction (high volume) and
it's instant. I've got a Metcal MX-DS1, it's awesome. Totally agree on the
rest of your points also. Clogged nozzles will make any desoldering gun work
like crap.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White
<madyn@...> Date: 7/27/18  2:19 PM  (GMT-06:00) To:
TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best
review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:47:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the
spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have lifted a
couple of pads along the way.  I really, really need to get something like
the Hakko.  I watched a video this morning where it was used to desolder a
component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered with
through-holes to the larger board.  After the Hakko was finished (in less
than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out.
Impressive.
Selecting the tip temperature is important (where this adjustment is
available).

Heating the joint all the way through is also critical.  Don't be
afraid to add solder so that no air gets sucked in.

The ones with the built in pumps are most convenient, but I wonder if
the ones that run off compressed air (bernouli principle) don't have a
sharper vacuum pulse.

The right tip diameter is also important.

Cleaning out the tips and filters is pretty critical, no suction, no
desoldering.

Harvey


Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the
tips any
more, no more Radio Shack.  I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering
bulb,
(have one).  Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads,
through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards).
Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit
boards.
    Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station.  Use at least a Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station, there
are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at work.
I
   just used it to repair my wifes monitor that died with no power, and
opened
it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on
the
power supply, and fixed it.  After getting the caps at Fry's it only
took
    me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering gun,
NO
PULLED PADS.  One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the best.
I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any more
and
Hakko had the tips for the thing.  Now you could get some cheap Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all.    Buy
at
least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main desoldering
companies are more expensive.  You could check out the tear apart videos
of
the  www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.

       On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
       <mike.terrell@...> wrote:


    I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a
fountain
    of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at the
local
    parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go
through
    our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron
which
    was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made
by
    Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a
buck an
    hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
    Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for good
    solder, because there was very little waste.

We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a
production
line in one of the Orlando plants.

Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted
with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they used. I
had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller
solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the
early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives
were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.

Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a
different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP of
RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)

Michael A. Terrell


-----Original Message-----

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines.  I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop.  I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating.  I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to.  Which was a lot.  I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C.  That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry.  It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal
connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris













Pete Lancashire
 

Eric I'm curious on your air compressor since the metcal seed 90 PSI
can you contact me off group and tell me how you build it thanks

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 9:28 PM EricJ via Groups.Io <wyzkydd2358=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes Stefan, I have mine, still use it. I'm using a Metcal PS2E-01 power
unit with mine. The power units can be had on eBay pretty cheap these days,
and since this older unit produces the same 13MHz frequency as the newer
ones a good Metcal iron will plug right in and work with the same power
supply also. Happy to answer any questions that I can.
Regarding the air line length, I use mine straight from a homemade
"silent" compressor with a 5 gallon tank next to my bench at the end of an
air line that may be 6 feet long, so no issues of that sort for me. I also
use the tip cleaners frequently and thus have not really had to battle many
clogging issues.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <
stefan_trethan@...> Date: 7/27/18 10:41 PM (GMT-06:00) To:
TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best
review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I wasn't familiar with the Metcal MX-DS1 and it does look rather good,
thanks!

Do either one of you, or maybe both, currently have that system?
If so, please tell me which model, especially also of the control station.

I have to read up on it and if any questions remain I hope I can put
them to you.
Information from actual users is often much more valueable than from
sales staff ;-).

See, a rant sometimes isn't entirely futile.

ST

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 1:50 AM, tom jobe <tomjobe@...> wrote:
I have had that same Metcal MX desoldering system for years, and I found
that being connected with a fairly long air hose (25 feet?) limited the
air
pressure available to the desoldering gun used to make its vacuum. An old
Freon tank of a few gallon capacity was turned into an air pressure
reservoir and installed between the Metcal desoldering gun and the air
pressure line. That improved things a lot as there was now full air
pressure
available at the instant you pulled the trigger.
Keeping the nozzles clear of solder is the main problem, but frequent
use of
the available Metcal tip cleaning rods can partially keep you on top of
that
problem.
The Metcal cleaning rod set is just a customized version of the same tip
cleaners a welder uses to keep his gas welding tips clean, but the Metcal
set of cleaning tips are longer and sized to the standard Metcal tip
diameters.
The only other real issue is keeping the 'business end' of the
desoldering
tips 'wetted' with fresh solder, and I never have solved that problem.
tom jobe...



On 7/27/2018 3:27 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io wrote:

Yes, the good venturi models have much better suction (high volume) and
it's instant. I've got a Metcal MX-DS1, it's awesome. Totally agree on
the
rest of your points also. Clogged nozzles will make any desoldering gun
work
like crap.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White
<madyn@...> Date: 7/27/18 2:19 PM (GMT-06:00) To:
TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best
review ever, Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:47:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

I've used my Radio Shack solder sucker (not the bulb but the
spring-loaded cylinder version) with pretty good success but I have
lifted a
couple of pads along the way. I really, really need to get something
like
the Hakko. I watched a video this morning where it was used to
desolder a
component board from another board that had around eight pins soldered
with
through-holes to the larger board. After the Hakko was finished (in
less
than a minute total time), the secondary board practically fell out.
Impressive.
Selecting the tip temperature is important (where this adjustment is
available).

Heating the joint all the way through is also critical. Don't be
afraid to add solder so that no air gets sucked in.

The ones with the built in pumps are most convenient, but I wonder if
the ones that run off compressed air (bernouli principle) don't have a
sharper vacuum pulse.

The right tip diameter is also important.

Cleaning out the tips and filters is pretty critical, no suction, no
desoldering.

Harvey


Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ray Burke" <burke.ray@...>
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2018 9:10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

The Radio Shack Desoldering bulb is useless because you cant get the
tips any
more, no more Radio Shack. I have used the Radio Shack Desoldering
bulb,
(have one). Solder Wick, Solder Suckers and other tools, while they
are
cheap, they do cause damage to the circuit boards with pulled pads,
through
holes, and other problems, ( I have used them and damaged my boards).
Don't
use any of the cheap alternatives, if you want to save the circuit
boards.
Use at least a good Desoldering gun or station. Use at least a
Hakko
FR-301 which I just bought, or a better Hakko Desoldering station,
there
are
others that are more expensive like Pace, Metcal, which I used at
work.
I
just used it to repair my wifes monitor that died with no power, and
opened
it up and found about three bulging capacitors, replaced all eight on
the
power supply, and fixed it. After getting the caps at Fry's it only
took
me about 20 minutes to change all eight, love my new Desoldering
gun,
NO
PULLED PADS. One other thing is manufacture support, Hakko is the
best.
I
got a desoldering station from my work, which they didn't want any
more
and
Hakko had the tips for the thing. Now you could get some cheap
Chinese
knockoff but support may not be their in a few years, or at all.
Buy
at
least a Hakko and you won't be disappointed. The other main
desoldering
companies are more expensive. You could check out the tear apart
videos
of
the www.EEVBlog with Dave Jones.

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:36 PM, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@...> wrote:


I started working in a TV shop at 13, in 1965. One older tech was a
fountain
of practical knowledge. I wasn't old enough to open an account at
the
local
parts house, so he would buy things for me so Ii didn't have to go
through
our boss and pay his markup. He bought me my first desoldering iron
which
was a professional version of that Radio Shack version. It was made
by
Endevco, and it was almost $40 which was a lot for a kid making a
buck an
hour after school. He was also the one who got me started on Ersin
Multicore solder. I've never regretted paying a little extra for
good
solder, because there was very little waste.

We handed the resale of a wave solder machine for Lockheed Martin
around
1990, along with other process equipment after they shut down a
production
line in one of the Orlando plants.

Microdyne was still using the same grade of paste solder they tarted
with,
even though the SMD parts were a lot smaller than the first they
used. I
had
to fight with Manufacturing engineering to buy a type with smaller
solder
balls and a RMA flux. The fine pitch ICs (IE: MC68340) came out of the
early
ovens with unmelted solder balls under the ICs, and the 0402 passives
were
tombstoning. They had spent a wad on that Heller oven, but the quality
hadn't changed. Once we had better solder, we could refine the reflow
profiles. That eliminated over 95% of the reflow problems within a few
months, as they continued to refine the profiles.

Did you build much equipment for your Amateur radio hobby? I went a
different
route, into broadcasting. Not many hams ever got to pump out 5MW EIRP
of
RF
from a 1700 foot tower. :)

Michael A. Terrell


-----Original Message-----

From: Chuck Harris <cfharris@...>
Sent: Jul 26, 2018 11:59 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: Wow Radio Shack desoldering Iron Best review ever, Re:
[TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire

I have minimal experience with industrial soldering machines. I
was a kid back in 1970, and a ham, and getting a job working for
DEI was like being let loose in a candy shop. I did a ton of
odd jobs after the child labor bureau made me stop doing all of
their silver and gold plating. I was a sponge, and soaked up every
process or technique I was exposed to. Which was a lot. I did
etching, plating, drilling, KPR, soldering, helped set up the
one-off machines that made standoffs and rivets... moved safes,
carried trash, pushed a broom... but I digress.

Nobody that I am aware of was using reflow ovens back in 1970.
Everything I saw was either through-hole, or was simple stuff
that was hand soldered on one of the teflon based pcb materials.

But I can only talk to what DEI, Nems-Clarke, and Vitro were did,
and also what a PCB manufacture/build/assemble house I worked at
later was doing.

I just did a search, and the only 80/20 alloy I could find was a
Pb80/Sn20, which has a solidus temperature of 183C and a liquidus
temperature of 280C. That is as compared to 63/37 which is 183C.

Pb80/Sn20 would be wonderful for operations where you needed to
sculpt the solder, like a car fender, or the terminals on very high
voltage circuitry. It would also be useful for soldering terminals
that might be later soldered with 63/37, such as the internal
connections
on a modular mixer.

-Chuck Harris


















stefan_trethan
 

FWIW I have also built a "silent" compressor.
Well, I had to, after switching that monster from the DIY store on the
first time I knew I wouldn't put up with that racket.

I took a refrigeration compressor, a slightly larger one from a
commercial unit, and cut it open to clean it (it was rusted solid),
and replaced the oil with regular motor oil. You really need to
replace that oil since refrigeration oil is hygroscopic and everything
will rust like crazy if you run it in air.
I simply cut open the case with an angle grinder, and later sealed it
back up with a rubber strip and a metal band.
Mine is from 1970 or thereabouts, made in Scotland of all places. The
old cast iron ones are better than the aluminium ones, in my mind
anyway.
It fills up the tank of the noisy compressor, but has it's own
pressure switch, I just didn't have a suitable pressure vessel at the
time.

Refrigeration compressors typically don't have piston rings, so they
introduce more oil into the the air than other piston compressors. But
it tends to settle out in the tank and not cause any issue.

Some commercial silent compressors look suspiciously like
refrigeration compressors anyway, with an added sight glass for the
oil level.
I guess a scroll compressor from a modern AC unit would be neat too,
but those are usually higher powered and not really silent.

ST

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@...> wrote:
Eric I'm curious on your air compressor since the metcal seed 90 PSI
can you contact me off group and tell me how you build it thanks

Pete Lancashire
 

California air tools Amazon Prime hundred sixty bucks. Very quiet oil free
excetera excetera.

Gives you the pressure most desoldering tools need such as my metcal which
needs 90 PSI.

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 10:56 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

FWIW I have also built a "silent" compressor.
Well, I had to, after switching that monster from the DIY store on the
first time I knew I wouldn't put up with that racket.

I took a refrigeration compressor, a slightly larger one from a
commercial unit, and cut it open to clean it (it was rusted solid),
and replaced the oil with regular motor oil. You really need to
replace that oil since refrigeration oil is hygroscopic and everything
will rust like crazy if you run it in air.
I simply cut open the case with an angle grinder, and later sealed it
back up with a rubber strip and a metal band.
Mine is from 1970 or thereabouts, made in Scotland of all places. The
old cast iron ones are better than the aluminium ones, in my mind
anyway.
It fills up the tank of the noisy compressor, but has it's own
pressure switch, I just didn't have a suitable pressure vessel at the
time.

Refrigeration compressors typically don't have piston rings, so they
introduce more oil into the the air than other piston compressors. But
it tends to settle out in the tank and not cause any issue.

Some commercial silent compressors look suspiciously like
refrigeration compressors anyway, with an added sight glass for the
oil level.
I guess a scroll compressor from a modern AC unit would be neat too,
but those are usually higher powered and not really silent.

ST








On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@...>
wrote:
Eric I'm curious on your air compressor since the metcal seed 90 PSI
can you contact me off group and tell me how you build it thanks


Pete Lancashire
 

https://youtu.be/1zkkLSiBv4E

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 8:21 AM Pete Lancashire <pete@...>
wrote:

California air tools Amazon Prime hundred sixty bucks. Very quiet oil free
excetera excetera.

Gives you the pressure most desoldering tools need such as my metcal which
needs 90 PSI.




On Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 10:56 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

FWIW I have also built a "silent" compressor.
Well, I had to, after switching that monster from the DIY store on the
first time I knew I wouldn't put up with that racket.

I took a refrigeration compressor, a slightly larger one from a
commercial unit, and cut it open to clean it (it was rusted solid),
and replaced the oil with regular motor oil. You really need to
replace that oil since refrigeration oil is hygroscopic and everything
will rust like crazy if you run it in air.
I simply cut open the case with an angle grinder, and later sealed it
back up with a rubber strip and a metal band.
Mine is from 1970 or thereabouts, made in Scotland of all places. The
old cast iron ones are better than the aluminium ones, in my mind
anyway.
It fills up the tank of the noisy compressor, but has it's own
pressure switch, I just didn't have a suitable pressure vessel at the
time.

Refrigeration compressors typically don't have piston rings, so they
introduce more oil into the the air than other piston compressors. But
it tends to settle out in the tank and not cause any issue.

Some commercial silent compressors look suspiciously like
refrigeration compressors anyway, with an added sight glass for the
oil level.
I guess a scroll compressor from a modern AC unit would be neat too,
but those are usually higher powered and not really silent.

ST








On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 5:39 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@...>
wrote:
Eric I'm curious on your air compressor since the metcal seed 90 PSI
can you contact me off group and tell me how you build it thanks


stefan_trethan
 

Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at 95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST

Bruce Lane
 

Mine works exactly the same way, but it doesn't seem overly loud to me.
Granted, I never measured it with a sound level meter (as, apparently,
you have), but I never felt the need to.

You might have it operating at too high a pressure. It should be right
around 100PSI, even. I would also check to make sure all the filters,
are clean, all the seals are present and working (there's a fat 'o-ring'
style seal around the desolder tip and a perimeter gasket lining the top
half of the collection chamber), and the venturi itself isn't cracked or
loose.

I hope that helps.

On 06-Sep-18 05:21, stefan_trethan wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at 95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST



--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

EricJ
 

Same here. What pressure are you working at? I thought the recommended pressure was 80 psi. Of note also is the fact that safety standards regarding hearing are time weighted. 95 dbA is safe for short periods, something like 1.5 hours a day, which is likely all you're going to be exposed to using a desoldering iron since they're only used in short bursts. At that time exposure there is supposed to be zero chance of long term hearing loss. Personally I haven't found mine objectionable at all, but then I'm not working in a library. I just checked mine with a db measuring app on my phone (probably not very accurate) and at 3 feet it runs right around 80 dbA at 80 psi.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Bruce Lane <@kc7gr> Date: 9/6/18 8:44 AM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
Mine works exactly the same way, but it doesn't seem overly loud to me.
Granted, I never measured it with a sound level meter (as, apparently,
you have), but I never felt the need to.

You might have it operating at too high a pressure. It should be right
around 100PSI, even. I would also check to make sure all the filters,
are clean, all the seals are present and working (there's a fat 'o-ring'
style seal around the desolder tip and a perimeter gasket lining the top
half of the collection chamber), and the venturi itself isn't cracked or
loose.

I hope that helps.

On 06-Sep-18 05:21, stefan_trethan wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at 95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST



--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)

stefan_trethan
 

I have it on 80psi as per the manual.
Can you please look into the slot at the back (palm side) and see if
there is any sound dampening material inside?
I can take off the side of the handle with two screws and it is
completely empty, the air from the venturi just comes out into this
space from a hole in the casting. All the seals are just fine
(everything is new), and it makes no difference if the suction side is
blocked or not, all the noise comes from the wild stream of air
exiting into the handle.

You definitely couldn't have a conversation within a few feet of this
thing, and even across the room it would be incredibly annoying.
It sounds like a loud compressed air blow-out gun (not surprising
since there is absolutely no silencer on the output).
My modified chinese desoldering station, wich also has a venturi
vacuum generator, makes just 60dB(A).

60dB(A) is quite acceptable in a shared lab/office space, but the
95dB(A) Metcal is absolutely unacceptable, even for the operator, let
alone everyone else.

I have made photos of my demo unit with the handle disassembled:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/v3TY1V5umNdp4UMB6
Here you can see the slot at the back of the handle where the air comes out:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KNSNjr6yX5fVe5mt5

Please let me know if this is normal, or if my unit is defective or
missing parts.
I will take it up with the vendor, but in my experience they often
know little about the tools they sell and have not used them.
Unless there are parts missing and this can be remedied it will go
back, no way I can use this.

ST

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 3:44 PM Bruce Lane <@kc7gr> wrote:

Mine works exactly the same way, but it doesn't seem overly loud to me.
Granted, I never measured it with a sound level meter (as, apparently,
you have), but I never felt the need to.

You might have it operating at too high a pressure. It should be right
around 100PSI, even. I would also check to make sure all the filters,
are clean, all the seals are present and working (there's a fat 'o-ring'
style seal around the desolder tip and a perimeter gasket lining the top
half of the collection chamber), and the venturi itself isn't cracked or
loose.

I hope that helps.

On 06-Sep-18 05:21, stefan_trethan wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at 95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST



--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)


EricJ
 

I'm not quite sure how a venturi desoldering iron could work very well without making more than 60dbA. I almost have that much background noise in my house with fans and refrigerator running. Even a very very quiet library is 40+ish dbA. How does your Chinese unit WORK compared to the Metcal? I guess to me, the sound level just isn't objectionable, but then I spent more time in heavy industrial manufacturing environment than in quiet offices - for decades. Not sure how the conversation is applicable - if you're working you shouldn't be doing much talking. Is this not a working space? And desoldering is normally a couple quick bursts and you're done. Total cumulative time the air is flowing is seconds per joint. If you don't like it, guess it's just not for you.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> Date: 9/6/18 9:54 AM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: Desoldering Iron, was Re: [TekScopes] 466-464 stray wire
I have it on 80psi as per the manual.
Can you please look into the slot at the back (palm side) and see if
there is any sound dampening material inside?
I can take off the side of the handle with two screws and it is
completely empty, the air from the venturi just comes out into this
space from a hole in the casting. All the seals are just fine
(everything is new), and it makes no difference if the suction side is
blocked or not, all the noise comes from the wild stream of air
exiting into the handle.

You definitely couldn't have a conversation within a few feet of this
thing, and even across the room it would be incredibly annoying.
It sounds like a loud compressed air blow-out gun (not surprising
since there is absolutely no silencer on the output).
My modified chinese desoldering station, wich also has a venturi
vacuum generator, makes just 60dB(A).

60dB(A) is quite acceptable in a shared lab/office space, but the
95dB(A) Metcal is absolutely unacceptable, even for the operator, let
alone everyone else.

I have made photos of my demo unit with the handle disassembled:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/v3TY1V5umNdp4UMB6
Here you can see the slot at the back of the handle where the air comes out:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KNSNjr6yX5fVe5mt5

Please let me know if this is normal, or if my unit is defective or
missing parts.
I will take it up with the vendor, but in my experience they often
know little about the tools they sell and have not used them.
Unless there are parts missing and this can be remedied it will go
back, no way I can use this.

ST

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 3:44 PM Bruce Lane <@kc7gr> wrote:

         Mine works exactly the same way, but it doesn't seem overly loud to me.
Granted, I never measured it with a sound level meter (as, apparently,
you have), but I never felt the need to.

         You might have it operating at too high a pressure. It should be right
around 100PSI, even. I would also check to make sure all the filters,
are clean, all the seals are present and working (there's a fat 'o-ring'
style seal around the desolder tip and a perimeter gasket lining the top
half of the collection chamber), and the venturi itself isn't cracked or
loose.

         I hope that helps.

On 06-Sep-18 05:21, stefan_trethan wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at 95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST



--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)


David Kuhn
 

Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great though.

I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928 setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST



stefan_trethan
 

I'm trying to ascertain if my unit is faulty, not trying to change my
working habits.
It's a shared space for ~5 guys working on various things, from
development stuff to office tasks, including phone calls.
Despite the fairly large room it's very disturbing, even on the other
end (~20m away).
Even if I was just working by myself at home this level of noise would
be a no-go, it's like a vacuum cleaner.

I can't see how this is OK even in a production environment, unless it
was very loud with hearing protection worn anyway.

As for making a venturi work quietly, you just put a silencer on the
output, it is quite simple.
Sure you need to use one that doesn't put up much flow resistance, but
that's all.
The chinese station sucks about -0.8 bar, the Metcal about -0.6 bar,
so less blocked-off vacuum, I will do exact measuremetns and flow
tests tomorrow.
I'll also play around with some sound dampening material, but as it
is, it's going back for sure.

ST

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 5:46 PM EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I'm not quite sure how a venturi desoldering iron could work very well without making more than 60dbA. I almost have that much background noise in my house with fans and refrigerator running. Even a very very quiet library is 40+ish dbA. How does your Chinese unit WORK compared to the Metcal? I guess to me, the sound level just isn't objectionable, but then I spent more time in heavy industrial manufacturing environment than in quiet offices - for decades. Not sure how the conversation is applicable - if you're working you shouldn't be doing much talking. Is this not a working space? And desoldering is normally a couple quick bursts and you're done. Total cumulative time the air is flowing is seconds per joint. If you don't like it, guess it's just not for you.
--Eric

stefan_trethan
 

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:

Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great though.

I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928 setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST




David Kuhn
 

" Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones. "

Okay; thanks. I should take it apart and make sure it is wired okay. I
think it is. It does work, but once it's been running for a few minutes,
it kills the power.

The shop is wired with separate 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire. 20
years ago, I went a little cheap, and rather than GFCI breakers, I ran the
20 amp lines out of the breaker box and then through a 20 AMP GFCI outlet
and then to the shop. Nothing else is tripping it except that hot air
station. Either it is drawing too much current, or those outlets are
failing. Upstairs, in the last year, I've had to replace three of them
that would not trip at all anymore. I think they only have a limited
lifetime.

I'll also have to take the hot air station apart and check that its mains
is wired correctly, but that wouldn't explain why it's fine for a few
minutes and the the GFCI outlet trips. i would lean more towards the
outlet itself.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:23 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for
years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped
working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:

Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great
though.

I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use
the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928
setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST






Renée
 

I have had the GFCI outlets fail in my kitchen where they trip rather than operate the toaster!
Renée

On 2018-09-06 10:19 AM, David Kuhn wrote:
" Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones. "

Okay; thanks. I should take it apart and make sure it is wired okay. I
think it is. It does work, but once it's been running for a few minutes,
it kills the power.

The shop is wired with separate 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire. 20
years ago, I went a little cheap, and rather than GFCI breakers, I ran the
20 amp lines out of the breaker box and then through a 20 AMP GFCI outlet
and then to the shop. Nothing else is tripping it except that hot air
station. Either it is drawing too much current, or those outlets are
failing. Upstairs, in the last year, I've had to replace three of them
that would not trip at all anymore. I think they only have a limited
lifetime.

I'll also have to take the hot air station apart and check that its mains
is wired correctly, but that wouldn't explain why it's fine for a few
minutes and the the GFCI outlet trips. i would lean more towards the
outlet itself.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:23 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for
years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped
working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:
Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great
though.
I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use
the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928
setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST




stefan_trethan
 

It could be that the heater wire is deforming as it heats up and
touching the metal housing somewhere, that could trip the GFI and
might not even show up on an insulation test.
We don't have GFI outlets here, just central GFIs in the distribution
panels. Used to be just a single three phase one for the whole house
(30mA) but now several are required.
They rarely fail but last year I had a bad one right out of the box.
It was only tripping intermittently (most dangerous), but luckily the
work experience lad who was wiring the distribution panel caught it.
Probably a mechanical issue since I could hear something rattling
around inside, and after some shaking it did not exhibit the fault any
more, but of course I changed it anyway.
I guess I should buy a different brand where I was shown on a factory
tour that they assemble the core mechanism in a cleanroom, but I'm
cheap too.....

ST

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 7:20 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:

" Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones. "

Okay; thanks. I should take it apart and make sure it is wired okay. I
think it is. It does work, but once it's been running for a few minutes,
it kills the power.

The shop is wired with separate 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire. 20
years ago, I went a little cheap, and rather than GFCI breakers, I ran the
20 amp lines out of the breaker box and then through a 20 AMP GFCI outlet
and then to the shop. Nothing else is tripping it except that hot air
station. Either it is drawing too much current, or those outlets are
failing. Upstairs, in the last year, I've had to replace three of them
that would not trip at all anymore. I think they only have a limited
lifetime.

I'll also have to take the hot air station apart and check that its mains
is wired correctly, but that wouldn't explain why it's fine for a few
minutes and the the GFCI outlet trips. i would lean more towards the
outlet itself.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:23 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for
years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped
working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:

Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great
though.

I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use
the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928
setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST







ArtekManuals
 

Dave

 I have had GFCI outlets fail before so also a possibility.

You likely have other GFCI outlets in house ( kitchen or bathroom , even outside on back porch) take the station out and temporarily plug it into a different GFCI circuit. If it trips that then you know there is a problem with the hot air station

Dave

On 9/6/2018 1:19 PM, David Kuhn wrote:
" Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones. "

Okay; thanks. I should take it apart and make sure it is wired okay. I
think it is. It does work, but once it's been running for a few minutes,
it kills the power.

The shop is wired with separate 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire. 20
years ago, I went a little cheap, and rather than GFCI breakers, I ran the
20 amp lines out of the breaker box and then through a 20 AMP GFCI outlet
and then to the shop. Nothing else is tripping it except that hot air
station. Either it is drawing too much current, or those outlets are
failing. Upstairs, in the last year, I've had to replace three of them
that would not trip at all anymore. I think they only have a limited
lifetime.

I'll also have to take the hot air station apart and check that its mains
is wired correctly, but that wouldn't explain why it's fine for a few
minutes and the the GFCI outlet trips. i would lean more towards the
outlet itself.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:23 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for
years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped
working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:
Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great
though.
I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use
the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928
setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST




--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

David Kuhn
 

" different GFCI circuit. If it trips that then you know there is a
problem with the hot air station "

Yes, it trips twp different GFCI outlet after its run for a few minutes.

I guess I just need to find a non-GFCI outlet and run a 100' cord in to the
shop - lol.

Anyone ever measure how many amps these Chinese Hot Air guns draw when
running? I would assume it's not close to 20 amps?

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 2:16 PM Artekmedia <manuals@...> wrote:

Dave

I have had GFCI outlets fail before so also a possibility.

You likely have other GFCI outlets in house ( kitchen or bathroom , even
outside on back porch) take the station out and temporarily plug it into
a different GFCI circuit. If it trips that then you know there is a
problem with the hot air station

Dave


On 9/6/2018 1:19 PM, David Kuhn wrote:
" Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones. "

Okay; thanks. I should take it apart and make sure it is wired okay. I
think it is. It does work, but once it's been running for a few minutes,
it kills the power.

The shop is wired with separate 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire. 20
years ago, I went a little cheap, and rather than GFCI breakers, I ran
the
20 amp lines out of the breaker box and then through a 20 AMP GFCI outlet
and then to the shop. Nothing else is tripping it except that hot air
station. Either it is drawing too much current, or those outlets are
failing. Upstairs, in the last year, I've had to replace three of them
that would not trip at all anymore. I think they only have a limited
lifetime.

I'll also have to take the hot air station apart and check that its mains
is wired correctly, but that wouldn't explain why it's fine for a few
minutes and the the GFCI outlet trips. i would lean more towards the
outlet itself.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:23 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for
years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped
working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:
Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great
though.
I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick. The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really
necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I use
the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928
setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It make
hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the
basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system
that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST





--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com





David Kuhn
 

" but I'm cheap too..... "

LOL, same here. I should take it apart an make sure they don't have the
hot and neutral swapped when they wired it for US use. I would really
doubt that.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 2:02 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

It could be that the heater wire is deforming as it heats up and
touching the metal housing somewhere, that could trip the GFI and
might not even show up on an insulation test.
We don't have GFI outlets here, just central GFIs in the distribution
panels. Used to be just a single three phase one for the whole house
(30mA) but now several are required.
They rarely fail but last year I had a bad one right out of the box.
It was only tripping intermittently (most dangerous), but luckily the
work experience lad who was wiring the distribution panel caught it.
Probably a mechanical issue since I could hear something rattling
around inside, and after some shaking it did not exhibit the fault any
more, but of course I changed it anyway.
I guess I should buy a different brand where I was shown on a factory
tour that they assemble the core mechanism in a cleanroom, but I'm
cheap too.....

ST
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 7:20 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:

" Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones. "

Okay; thanks. I should take it apart and make sure it is wired okay. I
think it is. It does work, but once it's been running for a few minutes,
it kills the power.

The shop is wired with separate 20 amp circuits and 12 gauge wire. 20
years ago, I went a little cheap, and rather than GFCI breakers, I ran
the
20 amp lines out of the breaker box and then through a 20 AMP GFCI outlet
and then to the shop. Nothing else is tripping it except that hot air
station. Either it is drawing too much current, or those outlets are
failing. Upstairs, in the last year, I've had to replace three of them
that would not trip at all anymore. I think they only have a limited
lifetime.

I'll also have to take the hot air station apart and check that its mains
is wired correctly, but that wouldn't explain why it's fine for a few
minutes and the the GFCI outlet trips. i would lean more towards the
outlet itself.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:23 PM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
wrote:

David,

I've had those chinese (AOYUE 8hundredsomething) hot air stations for
years.
Both at home, and every bench at work has one.

I don't use them that often, maybe once a week, but they have given
absolutely no trouble.
Only a couple of the segments on the temperature display have stopped
working.

Yours must be faulty if it trips the RCD, perhaps the heater, I would
try again I've really been very satisfied with the cheap ones.

ST


On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 6:04 PM David Kuhn <Daveyk021@...> wrote:

Wow, that's about a $950 setup as far as I can see. It looks great
though.

I've always used a HAKKO 808 for thru-hole de-soldering and wick.
The
Hakko 808 isn't real cheap either and it's supplied (tips, filters,
replacement elements, etc.) can add up. I use it when really
necessary.
For easy stuff, I use the old fashion hand pump and wick. When I am
working on more delicate boards, that still have thru-hole, then I
use
the
Hakko.

I see Hakko has a cheaper FR300-xxx for about $270.00. It looks like
it
uses the same tips.

I guess I am a Hakko fanboy (lol). I love their irons and use a 928
setup
daily, with a chisel tip and a micro-tip.

For Hot Air, I tried a Chinese 862D+ and it is pure garbage. It
make hot
air but blows the ground faults all the time (My shop is in the
basement,
so all lines are on 20 amps GFCI breakers. i need a hot air system
that
won't break the bank. Hakko hot air is probably too expensive.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@...
wrote:

Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at
95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot
into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST









tom jobe
 

Hi Stefan,
Today when I got home I downloaded a nicely rated Decibel app to my phone, and the 20 year old Metcal MX-DS1 I have makes around 95 dB when you hold the phone close to the MX-SD1 and then drops to around 80 or 85 dB when the MX-DS1 is maybe 40 cm from the phone? These numbers are at 80 psi air pressure.
I have never thought of this desoldering tool as being very noisy, but then I am getting a little older.
I'd guess that your MX-DS1 is about the same as mine.
tom jobe...

On 9/6/2018 5:21 AM, stefan_trethan wrote:
Based on your recommendation I now have a demo unit of the Metcal
MX5210 here, with the MX-DS1 desoldering gun.
But there is a problem with it - it is incredibly loud, measured at 95dB(A).
I have the correct pressure and everything installed per the
instructions, but surely this can't be right.
The venturi exhausts directly into the handle, which is completely
empty, no silcencer of any kind, and the air comes out via a slot into
your palm which seems odd too.

Please let me know if your MX-DS1 is built the same, or if there
should be some kind of silencer in the handle which is missing on
mine. The sound level is completely unacceptable, not just for
co-workers but also for the operator, 95dB is mandatory hearing
protection level loud...

ST