If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...


Pete Lancashire
 

I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal


stefan_trethan
 

I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal



Siggi
 

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 at 12:45 Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal
My TDS784D is only turned on when I need the bandwidth or one of its
features, I'll usually reach for the 2467 or the HP54622D - in that order
of preference.

If Rigol is under consideration, you may want to also look at the Siglents.
For $1k you can get the 4 channel SDS1104X-E <
http://www.saelig.com/siglent-sdsx-series/sds1104x-e.htm> model with the 16
channel logic probe & analyzer. Alternatively you could go for the 200MHz
model inside $1k. I believe Siglent throws in all manner of serial
decoders, which is a nice bonus.
Disclaimer: I've never used a Siglent scope, and I've not read the one
thorough looking review I found <
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/>.


EricJ
 

I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive.  I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences,  like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display,  it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204. 
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18 12:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal



stefan_trethan
 

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.

ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive. I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences, like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display, it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18 12:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal







Harvey White
 

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter. You get
to figure out how much the return will be. There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage. If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy. I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive. I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences, like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display, it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18 12:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal








EricJ
 

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size.  Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction,  and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices. 
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 4:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter.  You get
to figure out how much the return will be.  There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage.  If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy.  I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive.  I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences,  like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display,  it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18  12:37 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal








Dave Casey
 

There are people marketing solutions for the dim CRTs on the old TDS
scopes. As far as I know, all use the rear panel VGA output to drive a
modern display mounted where the CRT used to be. A little Googling will
probably turn up a few how-tos.

Dave Casey

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:02 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io <
wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size. Those are
nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black
reproduction, and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing
(about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like).
I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent
buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <
madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 4:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To:
TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a
100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter. You get
to figure out how much the return will be. There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage. If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy. I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A'
is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work,
the 'D' is very snappy and responsive. I find little fault with it except
the lack of a few newer conveniences, like there's no "roll" mode; one
must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to
get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended"
memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I
used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown
accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore.
Personally I love the display, it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent
1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <
stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18 12:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To:
TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a
100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com>
wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion
errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal














Bruce Lane
 

On 29-Jun-18 18:24, Dave Casey wrote:

There are people marketing solutions for the dim CRTs on the old TDS
scopes. As far as I know, all use the rear panel VGA output to drive a
modern display mounted where the CRT used to be. A little Googling will
probably turn up a few how-tos.

Dave Casey
Case in point:

http://www.simmconnlabs.com/1401/2606.html

I used one of these kits to bring my TDS784D back to life (dying CRT,
what else is new?) The result was nothing short of amazing.

Happy tweaking.


--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)


Pete Lancashire
 

So $230 bucks worst case on top of the cost of a TDS784D vs a Siglent.

I know there's not a lot of comparison other than you stick a probe in
there and you get a wiggly line interrupted by a massive amount of digital
electronics.

Thanks everybody I'll see what I can find in a TDS784D with a weak/fuzzy
display.

But I also seriously consider the new siglent family. More than a $1,000
list but I will call them and see what they've got in refurbs

I have no problem buying a refurb instrument.

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 6:35 PM Bruce Lane <kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com> wrote:

On 29-Jun-18 18:24, Dave Casey wrote:

There are people marketing solutions for the dim CRTs on the old TDS
scopes. As far as I know, all use the rear panel VGA output to drive a
modern display mounted where the CRT used to be. A little Googling will
probably turn up a few how-tos.

Dave Casey
Case in point:

http://www.simmconnlabs.com/1401/2606.html

I used one of these kits to bring my TDS784D back to life (dying
CRT,
what else is new?) The result was nothing short of amazing.

Happy tweaking.


--
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)




Harvey White
 

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:02:26 -0500, you wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size.  Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction,  and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices. 
Several things about the TDS540, from what I've understood. One is
that the BIOS is not smart enough to write in color, secondly is that
IIRC the graphics chip is wired so that all outputs are going to be in
monochrome regardless of what the BIOS says (someone said to
substitute a TDS544 motherboard for the 540 I have). There *is* an
LCD display out there, and it can be substituted, but the apparent
result in a TDS-540 is not the colors I'd want. Apparently the
display is only partially color.

Personally, I do have an extra monochrome CRT display for the 540,
which works, I think. The 540 I have works well enough, but probably
needs options unlocked. I have to build the IEEE488 adaptor for that
to work.

Now an OLED screen, well, the output to the CRT display is still
monochrome, and I've never heard that the graphics chip has ever been
commanded to do color in the 540, with the graphics option being
removed by tracks on the board.

Harvey


--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 4:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter.  You get
to figure out how much the return will be.  There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage.  If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy.  I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive.  I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences,  like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display,  it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18  12:37 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal












EricJ
 

I do understand that,  my reply was more directed at fellows with the color CRT versions,  but for the 540 and it's ilk, mayhaps you could at least select the color of your monochrome. 
Regarding LCD vs OLED, personally I would far prefer the OLED. LCD is lacking in several areas,  but mainly the black doesn't go black enough because the LCD can't block the backlight completely.  The result is a washed-out looking display to my eye. 
To the guy looking for a used TDS7xx - the linked sales page doesn't seem to list the price for the color version of the display that would be needed for TDS7xx scopes. I'm guessing it would be considerably higher - they make a point of noting that the listed version - T0e - is a "low-cost" model.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 9:14 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:02:26 -0500, you wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size.  Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction,  and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices. 
Several things about the TDS540, from what I've understood.  One is
that the BIOS is not smart enough to write in color, secondly is that
IIRC the graphics chip is wired so that all outputs are going to be in
monochrome regardless of what the BIOS says (someone said to
substitute a TDS544 motherboard for the 540 I have).  There *is* an
LCD display out there, and it can be substituted, but the apparent
result in a TDS-540 is not the colors I'd want.  Apparently the
display is only partially color. 

Personally, I do have an extra monochrome CRT display for the 540,
which works, I think.  The 540 I have works well enough, but probably
needs options unlocked.  I have to build the IEEE488 adaptor for that
to work.

Now an OLED screen, well, the output to the CRT display is still
monochrome, and I've never heard that the graphics chip has ever been
commanded to do color in the 540, with the graphics option being
removed by tracks on the board.

Harvey


--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18  4:46 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter.  You get
to figure out how much the return will be.  There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage.  If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy.  I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive.  I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences,  like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display,  it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18  12:37 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal












stefan_trethan
 

Yea I noticed that too. If you have to ask, it's too much.
I'm not even prepared to put $230 into the TDS544A at this point, but
thanks for the suggestion.

ST

On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 4:52 AM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I do understand that, my reply was more directed at fellows with the color CRT versions, but for the 540 and it's ilk, mayhaps you could at least select the color of your monochrome.
Regarding LCD vs OLED, personally I would far prefer the OLED. LCD is lacking in several areas, but mainly the black doesn't go black enough because the LCD can't block the backlight completely. The result is a washed-out looking display to my eye.
To the guy looking for a used TDS7xx - the linked sales page doesn't seem to list the price for the color version of the display that would be needed for TDS7xx scopes. I'm guessing it would be considerably higher - they make a point of noting that the listed version - T0e - is a "low-cost" model.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 9:14 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 20:02:26 -0500, you wrote:

I wonder if an OLED screen is available in the proper size. Those are nearly as good as a color CRT in color "pop" and good dark black reproduction, and much better than the shuttered CRTs in off-axis viewing (about the only drawback with the shuttered CRT system that I don't like). I heartily agree on the Siglent vs. LeCroy pricing. A Siglent is a decent buy for a pretty fair scope at Siglent prices.
Several things about the TDS540, from what I've understood. One is
that the BIOS is not smart enough to write in color, secondly is that
IIRC the graphics chip is wired so that all outputs are going to be in
monochrome regardless of what the BIOS says (someone said to
substitute a TDS544 motherboard for the 540 I have). There *is* an
LCD display out there, and it can be substituted, but the apparent
result in a TDS-540 is not the colors I'd want. Apparently the
display is only partially color.

Personally, I do have an extra monochrome CRT display for the 540,
which works, I think. The 540 I have works well enough, but probably
needs options unlocked. I have to build the IEEE488 adaptor for that
to work.

Now an OLED screen, well, the output to the CRT display is still
monochrome, and I've never heard that the graphics chip has ever been
commanded to do color in the 540, with the graphics option being
removed by tracks on the board.

Harvey


--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Harvey White <madyn@dragonworks.info> Date: 6/29/18 4:46 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 21:11:30 +0200, you wrote:

Siglent makes the very low end Lecroy scopes.

At Lecroy prices, they suck.
At Siglent prices it's a whole different story.

The shuttered CRT on my 544A is probably a bit dim. I can hardly see
the one colour, blue I think.
There are some articles about refurbishing the LCD shutter. You get
to figure out how much the return will be. There are LCD displays
that I think the 544A would manage. If I had the option (I have a
540), I'd get the 544A CPU board and drive an external LCD, or perhaps
put in an LCD, but that would be iffy. I do like the idea of color,
though.

Harvey


ST

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 8:57 PM, EricJ via Groups.Io
<wyzkydd2358=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have a couple TDS754s. An 'A' and a 'D' - while I agree that the 'A' is a little slow to respond at times when doing more processor heavy work, the 'D' is very snappy and responsive. I find little fault with it except the lack of a few newer conveniences, like there's no "roll" mode; one must basically wait for the scope to complete a full triggering sequence to get any data on a long timebase setting. And of course the "extended" memory option (8M) is more like the basic one that's offered these days. I used to find the menu structure somewhat less than intuitive but I've grown accustomed to it nowadays and don't have trouble finding anything anymore. Personally I love the display, it's much more vivid than an LCD to my eyes.
Looking at modern offerings that are affordable, I might pick a Siglent 1204.
--Eric
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: stefan_trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at> Date: 6/29/18 12:37 PM (GMT-06:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] If you had $1, 000 to buy a 100 MHz scope...
I have a TDS544 at home, which is somewhat similar to the newer
TDS784D, and I really dislike the display, menu structure, and general
lack of responsiveness.
To me this is the point where Tek went wrong, and I have not liked any
Tek scope from this point on.
Often I prefer to fire up the 7d20 digitizer in a 7k mainframe, when I
know it's only slow signals and I don't need 4 channels.

The later TDS3000 series was extremely popular, but I just straight
out hate the darn things.
From that vintage on I really much prefer Lecroy, even a LC series,
with LCD screen if you can get it instead od the CRT, yes, I would
much prefer that over the Tek ones.
I used to have a Lecroy DDA125 as my main work scope until a year or
two ago, and it is _A LOT_ of scope which you may now get in the $1000
range (The DDA is the same as a LC684 only with special HDD options
added). Not as repairable as old Tek (but so is new Tek).

Now I have a HRO64Zi at work which I got a really good deal on when
they discontinued the series, but still well outside your $1k budget.
That is a fine scope, but _even less_ responsive than the TDS544 or
DDA125. It needs to think and calibrate itself _all the f-ing time_.
But you can so so much with it, it somewhat compensates for the lack
of responsiveness. And the 12 Bit, I wouldn't want to miss that.
It is not the best scope for random debug or fault finding, but for
analysis when you need to get numbers out, document or compare stuff,
it's great.

Anyway, that's well out of price range, all I'm saying is I do miss
using the old DDA125 some days.
So for me the decision for a used scope in the 1k range would be easy,
the DDA125 or something very similar any day.

But is it really better than a modern low end scope, like a Rigol?
Hard to tell. There is something those old "lab grade" scopes have
that you just don't get in a low end scope.
We have a Keysight 3000x at work that I use some times, and it always
infuriates me when you are limited by stupid things such as not enough
reference channels, or not enough math, or...
Also, on that Keysight you can't switch off analog persistence (just
like a Tek TDS3000) and I dislike that.

Of course a new scope will have convenient modern features you just
won't find on one made around the year 2000.
And it will be lightweight, easy to carry around, likely work reliably
without needing repair.

It is the same as with a car, do you prefer a used quality car, or a
cheap and cheerful new car?
I don't mind old, but I do like quality.

What I can say is that the new very lowest end Tek/Keysight/Lecroy are
_not_ worth the money in my mind.
You still pay extra for the brand, but you get nothing above and
beyond say a Rigol, less actually.
They try to capture that market by either re-labeling imported crappy
scopes, or building their own crappy scopes to the cheapest price, but
they can never beat a lesser brand with their high overheads.


So the choice for me would be between a Rigol 1000Z, or something, and
a DDS125, or something like it.

If you can still do that thing where you buy the low end Rigol and
they let you upgrade it to a higher end model, I'd be hard pressed to
make a choice.
Luckily, I don't have to.


ST


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 6:45 PM, Pete Lancashire <xyzzypdx@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to break the habit of buying old scopes. I'm looking for
suggestions 100 megahertz or better, 4 channels, supports a mode where
multiple pulses are shown over and over again and shows Distortion errors.
I would say that's the one unique thing.

So what would members of this is esteamed group suggest.

And older tek scope that is higher, TDS784D for example or a new Tek /
keysight / Regal

















Tam Hanna
 

If you don't mind outsourcing the repair, let me recommend Jay Walling:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BkpHaVJgsZr/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1jpdh3tjkxm3v

His display works perfectly in my TDS754D...and was cheap. The unit from Sir Xu is better, but costs much more...
--
With best regards
Tam HANNA (emailing on a keyboard-less handset, sorry for spelling mistakes and brevity)


Mark Goldberg
 

What about the somewhat newer TSD2000 and TDS3000 series? We had a lot of
them at my previous job. They are not quite as fancy, but much smaller,
lighter and responsive. They can have at least RS232 and some have ethernet
interfaces to capture waveforms, etc. They have a "normal" LCD screen.

Being small and light they seemed to be stolen more often than they broke!
They sometimes were called Fisher Price scopes due to the pastel colors on
the buttons but they worked well for me as everyday scopes.

Some of them seem to be in the $1000 ish range used.

Regards,

Mark