Date   
Re: 11801 NVRAM

Reginald Beardsley
 

You won't be working by yourself if you send me any information you get. I'll certainly do the same.

This has become a grudge match with Tek management.

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 3/24/19, Jack2015 <tolkien@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 11801 NVRAM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2019, 9:24 AM

It looks like I have to study the
SM and figure out how to do the recalibration by myself,
wondering did any one got same problem and has
recalibrated a CSA803x or 11801X before?

Thanks for your information!

Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Reginald Beardsley
 

Albert Otten wrote:

Another possibility to have the instrument atleast doing something is to bypass the Self test and
Extended Diagnostic tests by setting jumpers J712 and J713 on the I/O board to the 0 position. These jumpers are difficult to reach with the board in situ, I found it easier to remove the board and then change the jumper settings.

The only jumper labeled was J710, so I assumed the number went up went up from there. J712 and J713 were set to the right, so I moved them to the left, replaced the board and powered it up.

There was no change in behavior.

In reading the service manual for the 11801 it seemed to indicate that a sampling head needed to be installed. I tried it with one of my SD-22s installed, but that had no discernible effect.

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

Roger Evans
 

Peter,

According to the manuals on Tekwki both 2215A and 2230 use the same CRT part number 154-0861-00. It is common to a few other scopes in the 22xx range but beware that 2215 and 2215A are not quite the same. You should read the manual for precautions on removing and handling the high voltage connector to the PDA electrode. Removing the CRT takes about 20 minutes the first time you do it and 10 minutes the second time! It is basically: remove the high voltage connector, two pin connector to the trace rotation coil and the four wires to the deflection plates (don't bend the pins). Remove the CRT bezel on the front of the scope and the little rubber pads in the corners. Push the CRT out towards the front using both hands with your thumbs on the flared cone. Repeat - read the manual for the official version and the safety notes!

Regards,

Roger

Re: 2247A PSU Troubleshooting

tekscopegroup@...
 

I mentioned this before, but just for the benefit of anyone not seeing it, the MUR160 600V 1Amp fast diode works perfectly as a replacement of all these ZS diodes, and they are just $0.38 a piece at Mouser, present stock >100K.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/ON-Semiconductor/MUR160RLG?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbRapU8LlZD9Yt6EMzPspSTOq4%2FRfw2Ns%3D

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Jack2015
 

How about take out the DS1213 and replace it with a pin compatible 256K SRAM(HM52256,CXK58257,D43256)?
It should work if timebase board supply 5V to the SRAM.if it doesn't work then disconnect the VCC pin of SRAM
from IC socket and supply 3v(two 1.5V batteries) to vcc pin of SRAM then try it again(of course the GND of battery must
connected to GND of timebase board).it will make the SRAM work like a battery backed up NVRAM.

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

peterp@...
 

great info, thanks...I’ll open both up and check against the part number, and then proceed.

If anyone knows, how long does it take for the HV to bleed down to zero after turn-off ?

Peter

Original 2236 Service manual May 1989 Revision

 

I have an excess Original May 1989 Revision of the 2236 Service Manual.

I can ship it to anyone in the US for $30.

If interested please contact me OFF LIST at dennis at ridesoft dot com



Dennis Tillman W7PF

Original January 1985 R7103 Service Manual

 

I have an original JAN 1985 Revision of the R7103 Service manual.

I can ship it to anyone in the US for $30. That includes the shipping.

If interested contact me OFF LIST at dennis at ridesoft dot com.



Dennis Tillman W7PF

Complete P6450 Data Acquisition Probe NEW Unopened package

 

I have a brand new unopened complete P6450 Data Acquisition Probe including
all the multi-colored wires and mini-test clips.

I can ship it anywhere in the US for $30. That includes shipping.

If interested contact me OFF LIST at dennis at ridesoft dot com.



Dennis Tillman W7PF

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Jack2015
 

Forget my idea,the 3V to VCC of SRAM might be too low.too dangerous!
but you can replace the DS1213 with a pin compatible 32k8 SRAM and try it.
if it works you will get battery error but you can exit diagnostic and start to use
the scope.

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Reginald Beardsley
 

I have replacements made by ST in transit. As for exiting the Extended Diagnostics, my last post reported that I am not able to do that.

I have tried deleting the failing tests, but cannot.

I have tried exiting diagnostics, but cannot.

I have tried entering debug mode, but cannot.

I have turned off "stop on error" but it has no effect.

I tried changing the jumpers on J712 and J713, but that had no effect.

I have tried installing both of the SD-22 heads, but that had no effect. I have no idea if the SD-22s are any good or not. The channel select LEDs flash on power up, but that is all.

When I compare this instrument to my 485 and 465 it is sad to see how far Tek fell in a very short time.

Reg

Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Albert Otten
 

Hi Reg,

You moved the correct jumpers (Fig. 1-1 in the Diagnostics manual). I suppose (just suppose) now that the Exxxx error is too severe. When the battery in the Dallas battery is low, the NVRAM memory chip should still work but lose its content after power off. The corresponding error is T1331. Probably the chip inside the Dallas unit does not function properly anymore, i.e. does not guide the mainframe 5V to the memory chip when mainframe power is present.

The scope should power up normally even without any plugins. Of course many function simply are not available then, but you can see things like instrument options and identification.

Albert

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 04:48 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:


Albert Otten wrote:

Another possibility to have the instrument atleast doing something is to
bypass the Self test and
Extended Diagnostic tests by setting jumpers J712 and J713 on the I/O board to
the 0 position. These jumpers are difficult to reach with the board in situ, I
found it easier to remove the board and then change the jumper settings.

The only jumper labeled was J710, so I assumed the number went up went up from
there. J712 and J713 were set to the right, so I moved them to the left,
replaced the board and powered it up.

There was no change in behavior.

In reading the service manual for the 11801 it seemed to indicate that a
sampling head needed to be installed. I tried it with one of my SD-22s
installed, but that had no discernible effect.

Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Albert Otten
 

Hi Reg,
One more remark. With Extended Diagnostics disabled you can (probably) still control the 11801 via GPIB. See for instance my CSA803 repair, message 148037.
Albert

Re: 2247A PSU Troubleshooting

chipbee40
 

All this talk of diodes may be relevant when you get the PSU to start but its dead right? The way I work on these is remove the PSU from the case, remove the IEC power inlet from the case and reconnect to the power supply so you have a safe(ish) power connection. Put the power supply on a suitable sized cardboard box with a slot cut in it to pass the output pins through and give you a stable PSU to work with. Disconnect and insulate the multiplier feed from T2204, that saves you any worry about the EHT and also removes the multiplier as a fault. Remove the fan from the case (you can get at the bolts without removing the tube). Plug the fan into the PSU as a load.
Now as I posted previously check C2210 (4.7uF 100v) either by measuring or substitution. Check Q2209 and Q2210 (TIP32C) out of circuit using your multimeter. This the usual cause of a non starting supply.
Regarding the secondary diodes, if you really think they are suspect just lift one end, its rare that they will cause the supply to trip, maybe excess ripple on a rail.
If the supply still fails to start check Q2214 (Mosfet) might be shorted.
Just be careful! Think twice before touching anything with the power on.
My 10 cents...........JC

Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Reginald Beardsley
 

Albert,

Where do I find a diagnostics manual for the 11801? Finding *any* manuals at all has been like looking for a unicorn. Days of searching turned up 11801A/B/C documents. But no 11801 documents.

I still get an E5622 error after my misadventure with U511.

In my view we really need to get this sorted out before a lot of very fine instruments become junk. Component level documentation for an 11801 would probably have sot $150-200K NRE at the time it was introduced.. Not providing that on a $25K (1989) instrument is obscene.

Thanks for your help.
Reg


--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 3/24/19, Albert Otten <aodiversen@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 11801 diagnostic help
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2019, 1:47 PM

Hi Reg,

You moved the correct jumpers (Fig. 1-1 in the
Diagnostics manual). I suppose (just suppose) now that the
Exxxx error is too severe. When the battery in the Dallas
battery is low, the NVRAM memory chip should still work but
lose its content after power off. The corresponding error is
T1331. Probably the chip inside the Dallas unit does not
function properly anymore, i.e. does not guide the mainframe
5V to the memory chip when mainframe power is present.

The scope should power up
normally even without any plugins. Of course many function
simply are not available then, but you can see things like
instrument options and identification.

Albert


On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 04:48 PM, Reginald
Beardsley wrote:

>
> Albert Otten wrote:
>

> Another possibility to have the
instrument atleast doing something is to
> bypass the Self test and
> Extended Diagnostic tests by setting
jumpers J712 and J713 on the I/O board to
> the 0 position. These jumpers are
difficult to reach with the board in situ, I
> found it easier to remove the board and
then change the jumper settings.
>
> The only jumper labeled was J710, so I
assumed the number went up went up from
>
there.  J712 and J713 were set to the right, so I moved
them to the left,
> replaced the board
and powered it up.
>
> There was no change in behavior.
>
> In reading the
service manual for the 11801 it seemed to indicate that a
> sampling head needed to be installed.  I
tried it with one of my SD-22s
>
installed, but that had no discernible effect.
>

Re: 577 Curve tracer ringing CRT and noisy step generator

chipbee40
 

They should be symmetrical, however checking a 577 that just came in I found U220 pin 9 is actually pin 13, guess you can't trust the gates in the manual :)
probably some updates somewhere but I don't have them.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 08:57 AM, <wilson2115@...> wrote:


https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/photo/86536/11?p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

Probing pins 2 and 6 of U220 reveals square waves that are not symmetrical,
should I be concerned and is there a adjustment

Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Albert Otten
 

Hi Reg,

I thought this manual had been mentioned before. I meant the last manual listed at
tekwiki, http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/11801 . Also here:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=download&file=Tektronix/Tektronix_11801_Factory_Diagnosis_Manual_Operator_Manual.zip

Albert

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 08:13 PM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:


Albert,

Where do I find a diagnostics manual for the 11801?

Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Reginald Beardsley
 

Thanks. It got overlooked among the ridiculous number of 11801C manuals I found listed as 11801 manuals.

Breaks over, back to work :-)



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 3/24/19, Albert Otten <aodiversen@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 11801 diagnostic help
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2019, 4:00 PM

Hi Reg,

I thought this manual had been mentioned
before. I meant the last manual listed at
tekwiki, http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/11801 .
Also here:
http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=download&file=Tektronix/Tektronix_11801_Factory_Diagnosis_Manual_Operator_Manual.zip

Albert

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 08:13 PM, Reginald
Beardsley wrote:

>
> Albert,
>
> Where do I find a diagnostics manual for
the 11801?
>

Re: 11801 NVRAM

bobh@joba.com
 

Re: ROM images, did you check here:

http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals

Search ko4bb for 11801.

Bob.

On 3/24/2019 7:26 AM, Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io wrote:
I was able to select a DS1230Y NVRAM package on the TNM5000 and read U500. However, it only contained 32 bytes of data. Everything else was alternating 32 bytes of 00 and FF.

I should note that when I selected the NVRAM part, the TNM put up a warning to select the device before inserting the device in the ZIF which is the opposite of what I did.

Does anyone have images of U500 and U511 from a CSA803 or 11801 which has the factory cal data? We'd also need the 200 MHz OXCO measured using a GPSDO referenced counter and the version of the timebase board ROMS. Mine are version 10.1 dated 1991.

Does anyone of the list know who designed the board? It's dated 1988. It they are still alive we might get some help from them.

Is there any information on the recalibration process?

This needs to be documented before all of them fail. Twenty odd years ago there was a detailed description of how to recover a Sun workstation from a failed NVRAM. So if you bought a used system, one of the first things you did was record the serial number, etc for future reference.

Reg


Re: 11801 diagnostic help

Reginald Beardsley
 

I'm reading the diagnostics manual section for the A5 timebase board. The 8 LEDs, ST0-7 come on at power on and stay on while it runs through the self tests I have J710- J713 set to 0. There is never any change in the brightness of the LEDs and all the diagnostics run until it stops with an E5622 error.

I'm somewhat at a loss with regard to the divergence between the manual and the actual behavior.

There is evidence that the underside of the case got damp in the form of brownish discoloration of the external surfaces of the end frames and white powder at several points where the bottom cover touched the frames. However, there is no indication that the boards got wet. The discoloration is consistent with what I'd expect if it sat on a concrete slab for a long period of time in a non-climate controlled room. The unit came from Arizona.

I have removed and reseated all the board connectors on the A5 board except for the coaxial lines. If the other end of the A5 cables was within reach I reseated the other end also. I've also reseated the 4 ROMS in unmarked sockets next to U501 and U511. The ROMs are marked U300, U310, U400 & U410 V10.1 1991.

Instrument serial number is B030215.