Date   
Re: 11801 extender card

Reginald Beardsley
 

These are not card edge connectors. They are 3 row pin connectors of around 90-120 pins and are used in the main card cage of the 11801 behind the CRT.


--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 3/23/19, nonIonizing EMF <nonionizingemf@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 11801 extender card
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2019, 2:40 PM

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 06:58 AM,
Reginald Beardsley wrote:

>
> Does anyone know of a
Tek part number or a source for a card?
>

I
recently wrote a Wikipedia wiki regarding the Tektronix
extenders as part of a JAMMA Connector wiki that was
submitted and recommended to be merged with the JAMMA
wiki.  I updated the JAMMA wiki with all the references of
that style edge connector I could find pretty much in the
Other Origins section.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Amusement_Machine_and_Marketing_Association#Other_Origins:

If I missed anything... please
reply and I'll update accordingly.  I added some other
edge connector type cables to while at it that I've seen
related to Tektronix equipment also.  I'm thinking I
can write a separate wiki to one of these days or at least
create a re-direct to.

Thanks

Re: 2247A PSU Troubleshooting

Nicholas Keller
 

Well I’m not sure which ones would be appropriate. There are a bunch, for
sure. Blue, silver, bigger, etc. I don’t presume to know why those
different ones were selected for each location.

I haven’t ordered yet, had a busy day, but planned to order extra anyway.
Will have them here if we can determine which ones should go. All the ones
on that list discussed earlier, I guess.

Nick




On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 3:32 PM @Nielsentelecom <
@Nielsentelecom> wrote:

Nick,

I replaced more than that on my 2246A supply. For the pain to remove the
power supply, I thought it would be worth it. I may had others that were
leaky, I don't recall.

I still have the old ones stashed away somewhere, I looked to see what I
replaced, but I didn't find them. I thought it may be helpful to you.

NielsenTelecom



Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

peterp@...
 

thanks all, that’s what I thought too...crt damage...although the ship box doesn’t show damage, maybe it was dropped horizontally...

I tested it out, even the DT and DV cursor measurements are only 2-3% off...

Peter

Archiving ROM images

Reginald Beardsley
 

I hope no one objects to the cross posting, but I have instruments from all three OEMs.

I'm getting ready to try to bring up my Tek 11801 when the replacement NVRAM shows up.

In the process I'd like to archive all the ROM images. EPROM seems pretty straight forward. I'm not sure about NVRAM devices with factory cal data. Ultimately I plan to do this for all my T&M gear for which images are not already available. Subject to not wanting to disassemble stuff just to copy ROMS.

Can anyone point to existing descriptions of the details? If not, is anyone with experience doing this willing to write something that will guide a novice through the process?

Are any of the OEMs opposed to people trying to maintain old gear posting ROM images online?

Reg

Re: 2247A PSU Troubleshooting

tom jobe
 

Hi Nick,
Look in your 224x service manual in the electrical parts listings.
Go to the parts for the A18 board and scroll down to the start of the CR listings for the A18 board.
Starting with about CR2202 you will see the listings of the 400 volt one amp diodes that you found as being marked 'ZS'.
The Tektronix part number is 152-400-00 for these problematic ZS diodes.
There is a good chance that all of the 152-400-00 diodes you have are in fact marked 'ZS' and possibly leaky.
tom jobe...
PS Be very careful with the polarity of the new diodes when you install them, and be sure they are ultra fast diodes too.
The main transformer runs at 20k to 25k hertz.
tom jobe...

On 3/23/2019 7:35 AM, Nicholas Keller wrote:
I removed 8 diodes marked ZS last night and will order replacements today.
Will report back with results. Thanks again for all the help so far

Nick





On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 9:37 AM <tekscopegroup@...> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 03:57 PM, tom jobe wrote:
There are about 17 one amp ultra fast diodes that are used to rectify
the low voltages on the secondary side of the transformer. About a dozen
of them are in a row next to the transformer in the middle of the A18
board and they are known to fail especially if they are marked "ZS" or
one other marking which I can't remember.
If they are marked ZM or ZS they are well known to get leaky. Replace
these diodes with MUR160 600V 1Amp from Mouser/DK.



11801 NVRAM

Reginald Beardsley
 

I just got bit by "none of the above". Rather than Dallas, Maxim or ST NVRAM parts, U500 and U511 on the timebase board are NEC D43256C SRAM in a battery powered socket inserted into the PCB socket.

Not having seen this before, I pulled the SRAM from the battery backup on U511, so whatever data might still have been there is now gone.

Is there any documentation of what is stored in U500 and U511? My understanding is that factory "enhanced accuracy" data are stored in one or both.

It's very frustrating not having component level service data as it's all TTL parts and *should* be easy to maintain indefinitely. Though now that I've seen the board, I doubt that the 1.4 ps jitter can be reduced with reasonable effort. It's likely a consequence of the variation in propagation time through a long chain of gates.

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

 

Pull the tube and examine it for broken glass bits in the neck. If you do see any broken glass, the tube is toast.

Regards

On 3/23/2019 6:34 PM, peterp@... wrote:
thanks all, that’s what I thought too...crt damage...although the ship box doesn’t show damage, maybe it was dropped horizontally...

I tested it out, even the DT and DV cursor measurements are only 2-3% off...

Peter


Re: 11801 extender card

 

Hi Reginald,

All I know about 11K extenders is this:

1) They are extremely rare. I have only ever seen two of them.
2) The 11K series uses more of the backplane connectors than the 7K series uses so a 7K extender won't work.

As if that wasn't problem enough there are no schematics for the 11K series. By the time the 11K came out Tek stopped providing schematics, parts lists, etc.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: Reginald Beardsley via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2019 6:59 AM

I want to investigate the possibility of replacing the 1.4 ps jitter clock
with a modern device with sub ps jitter. As there is no component level
documentation that I know of, doing this will require probing the running
system.

Hence my search for an extender card. Does anyone know of a Tek part number
or a source for a card? I'd design one, but I don't know how to use any of
the PCB design tools and already have my hands full trying to master FPGA DSP
design using Vivado and Quartus.

Thanks,
Reg
--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

Re: 11801 extender card

Reginald Beardsley
 

As it turns out, the timebase board is underneath, has a 200 MHz ovenized oscillator and a very long TTL divider chain. So no extender card needed. Probing it is simple, but replacing it is just not worth the trouble, The source of the jitter is the divider chain. Reverse engineering the control logic is not worth it. I can do better using a GPSDO to characterize the jitter and reprocessing the output.

The people who designed it have a right to be very proud of their work. Their management should be lined up and shot for not providing documentation.

Reg

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 3/23/19, Dennis Tillman W7PF <@Dennis_Tillman_W7PF> wrote:

Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 11801 extender card
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2019, 7:48 PM

Hi Reginald,

All I know about 11K extenders is this:

1) They are extremely rare. I
have only ever seen two of them.
2) The 11K
series uses more of the backplane connectors than the 7K
series uses so a 7K extender won't work.

As if that wasn't problem
enough there are no schematics for the 11K series. By the
time the 11K came out Tek stopped providing schematics,
parts lists, etc.

Dennis
Tillman W7PF

Tek transformer 120-0866-02

Jerry
 

I found the subject transformer in a pile of Tek scope parts. It looks new. I am wondering what it belongs in?

Last year I bought out over a hundred pounds of transistors, capacitors and resistors for Tek equipment. I have all kinds of Sprague silver tantalums, multi-colored tantalum drops, many specialized transistors, bag after bag, literally thousands of tantalum caps. I have many electrolytics, most of them axial leads though a fair amount are radial. I just don't know what to do with them all. I sold a couple of the more specialized caps on ebay (axial lead sprague Orange caps) but the time it takes to run to the post office to drop them off isn't worth it. If you are looking for something special, send me a PM and I'll see if I can help you out.

Thanks

Jerry

Re: Tek transformer 120-0866-02

Dave Brown
 

That is what the RPR is for. You lookup 120-0866-00 and it says it was used in the 408, 412, and 414, all portable patient monitors.

Dave

Re: Tek transformer 120-0866-02

Craig Cramb
 

If you are looking for something special, send me a PM and I'll see if I can help you out.

Not sure how to PM you.

Craig

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

Roger Evans
 

If you have broken glass you wouldn't expect to see any beam at all.

It is quite easy to pull the CRT out, see the manual. Try swapping the tube with your 2213A but not swapping the shield, then swap the shield but not the CRT. Should be fairly conclusive as to whether it is a damaged CRT or a magnetised shield.

Roger

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

Adrian
 

Perhaps Tom means bits of internal support structure rather than the vacuum envelope?

On 3/24/2019 8:37 AM, Roger Evans via Groups.Io wrote:
If you have broken glass you wouldn't expect to see any beam at all.

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Jack2015
 

I did same mistake last week on my CSA803 when replacing NVRAM on the timebase board(selftest error code E5322),
the factory calibration data is gone,now when I measure a 100khz signal it shows me 106Khz,when measure a 1Mhz signal it shows 106Mhz...
I want to know how to fix this problem too.

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Dewey Wyatt
 

The way it was explained to me on my 2430a, if you loose the data then you must do a recalibration. I was lucky even though it didn’t pass the self cal due to a low battery the info was still there and I was able to use my tl8662 plus to read and save the data then copy it to the new sram modules. So far so good with it I used a different sram that has a snap cap battery which is replaceable. The data and pinout was the same but it is a surface mounted sram so I had to get boards made and solder the chip to a carrier board then add pins from a header.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jack2015
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 8:32 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] 11801 NVRAM

I did same mistake last week on my CSA803 when replacing NVRAM on the timebase board(selftest error code E5322),
the factory calibration data is gone,now when I measure a 100khz signal it shows me 106Khz,when measure a 1Mhz signal it shows 106Mhz...
I want to know how to fix this problem too.






---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

peterp@...
 

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 01:37 AM, Roger Evans wrote:

It is quite easy to pull the CRT out, see the manual. Try swapping the tube
with your 2213A but not swapping the shield, then swap the shield but not the
CRT. Should be fairly conclusive as to whether it is a damaged CRT or a
magnetised shield.
I have a 2215A with one channel busted. I'm tempted to try this. Is the CRT on the
2215A identical to the one in the 2230 ? no extra connections on the 2230 that are not
on the 2215A or vice versa ?

Thanks Roger.
Peter

Re: 577 Curve tracer ringing CRT and noisy step generator

DW
 

I replaced U380 U360 U350 U305 on the the step generator board, no improvement. I noticed some of the longer 14pin IC's on the step generator move stiff and course out of their sockets, I might have a IC socket issue.

Curious, maybe I should look at display blanking?

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Jack2015
 

It looks like I have to study the SM and figure out how to do the recalibration by myself,
wondering did any one got same problem and has recalibrated a CSA803x or 11801X before?

Thanks for your information!

Re: 11801 NVRAM

Reginald Beardsley
 

I was able to select a DS1230Y NVRAM package on the TNM5000 and read U500. However, it only contained 32 bytes of data. Everything else was alternating 32 bytes of 00 and FF.

I should note that when I selected the NVRAM part, the TNM put up a warning to select the device before inserting the device in the ZIF which is the opposite of what I did.

Does anyone have images of U500 and U511 from a CSA803 or 11801 which has the factory cal data? We'd also need the 200 MHz OXCO measured using a GPSDO referenced counter and the version of the timebase board ROMS. Mine are version 10.1 dated 1991.

Does anyone of the list know who designed the board? It's dated 1988. It they are still alive we might get some help from them.

Is there any information on the recalibration process?

This needs to be documented before all of them fail. Twenty odd years ago there was a detailed description of how to recover a Sun workstation from a failed NVRAM. So if you bought a used system, one of the first things you did was record the serial number, etc for future reference.

Reg