Date   
2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video

guy232
 

Hello fellas! I have been reading/researching a ton over the past couple months while trying to get my new to me 2213A in proper working order.

I bought one from the auction site and powered it on for less than a minute, seemed alright. Powered it down because I seen that its highly recommended to replace the power supply area electrolytics & safety caps before doing the initial LVPS tests.


I have been documenting this on eevblog forum and have had some great help there from David Hess, thought I may post here too just to document my issue for others and maybe get some insight to give poor Mr. Hess a break from me, hah!


In hopes of making this more concise and readable, I will section things up as such:


- briefly explaining the anomaly & including a video link


- listing the components I replaced


- listing the 2 instances of my novice induced damage/mistakes I encountered. (I dont believe these are related to the anomaly though)

----------------


Anomaly:

After replacing parts I powered up with scope settings set to "Baseline Trace", traces displays and everything looks good. After 2-3 minutes the trace starts shrinking, blinking and slowly fades out. The power led/trigger led also fade in and out during this time. After 10 or so seconds the power led finally goes dark and the machine displays nothing. Toggling power on/off doesnt help. After unplugging and waiting an hour or so and then trying to power on the unit works but will repeat the same process again in 2-3min.


Video of the anomaly, feel free to skip to 2:19 which is when it starts to occur:

 https://youtu.be/rC6rcQxdX1w


Under the suggestion of Mr. Hess; I checked temperatures of a few components in the power supply area right after the anomaly occured. All areas seem normal (24-27C). The "highest" temp was 29-30C on T944. Mr. Hess advised that these temperatures seemed alright and if a transformer was the cause I would expect to see very high readings.


After much more reading around I haven't found any good leads in the right direction yet. Will keep this updated!


-----------------------



Parts replaced:


C900: KEMET R46 Series FILM 0.15UF 10% 560VDC RAD

C902, C903, C904: KEMET Y2 Rating Film 2200pf 1kvdc


C906: United Chemicon KXJ series 100µF 450V


C925: Chemicon KY 100µF 25V 


C940: Chemicon KYB 1200µF 63V 


C942, C943: Nichicon UCS 10uf 160v


C944: Kemet R82 Series 1µF Film Capacitor 40V 63V Polyester, Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET), Metallized


C954: Chemicon kxj 39µF 160V 


C960-C970:  Chemicon KYB 1000UF 20% 25V 


R892, 894, 888, 889, 890, 891: Vishay HVR37 510K 1/2W 1%


Schaffner AC inlet/IEC: Qualtek 858-03/007


------------------------------------


Accidents/Errors/Damage:

C944, Positive lead;  Lifted pad on bottom of board. The top side of the board still has pad intact. Used multimeter on bottom side of the board and the C944 positive lead shares continuity with other components connected to the ground, I believe this means that the lifted bottom pad isn't a big deal that requires repair.


C956: I made a mistake due to the capacitor list I was using being incorrect. Initially installed a Nichicon UPW 47µF 63V cap. I caught this mistake and replaced it with the stock 270uf +100-10% 40V cap which still tested good for ESR & Capacitance. Ordered & waiting on new cap (nichicon upw 330uf 50v). Not sure if powering on with this cap caused any damage but after removing the 47uf cap it still tested good, replacing the stock 270uf cap did not solve the scope anomaly.


----------------------------

Thanks for any insight, I will still be researching meanwhile and will update if I find anything out.


Cheers,

Gary R.

Treasure Coast, Florida

Re: 2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video

Jim Ford
 

Nope, no break for Dave Hess; He's on TekScopes, too!Jim Ford Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: guy232 <@guy232> Date: 3/22/19 11:55 AM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: [TekScopes] 2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video Hello fellas! I have been reading/researching a ton over the past couple months while trying to get my new to me 2213A in proper working order. I bought one from the auction site and powered it on for less than a minute, seemed alright. Powered it down because I seen that its highly recommended to replace the power supply area electrolytics & safety caps before doing the initial LVPS tests.I have been documenting this on eevblog forum and have had some great help there from David Hess, thought I may post here too just to document my issue for others and maybe get some insight to give poor Mr. Hess a break from me, hah!In hopes of making this more concise and readable, I will section things up as such:- briefly explaining the anomaly & including a video link- listing the components I replaced- listing the 2 instances of my novice induced damage/mistakes I encountered. (I dont believe these are related to the anomaly though)----------------Anomaly: After replacing parts I powered up with scope settings set to "Baseline Trace", traces displays and everything looks good. After 2-3 minutes the trace starts shrinking, blinking and slowly fades out. The power led/trigger led also fade in and out during this time. After 10 or so seconds the power led finally goes dark and the machine displays nothing. Toggling power on/off doesnt help. After unplugging and waiting an hour or so and then trying to power on the unit works but will repeat the same process again in 2-3min.Video of the anomaly, feel free to skip to 2:19 which is when it starts to occur: https://youtu.be/rC6rcQxdX1wUnder the suggestion of Mr. Hess; I checked temperatures of a few components in the power supply area right after the anomaly occured. All areas seem normal (24-27C). The "highest" temp was 29-30C on T944. Mr. Hess advised that these temperatures seemed alright and if a transformer was the cause I would expect to see very high readings.After much more reading around I haven't found any good leads in the right direction yet. Will keep this updated!-----------------------Parts replaced:C900: KEMET R46 Series FILM 0.15UF 10% 560VDC RADC902, C903, C904: KEMET Y2 Rating Film 2200pf 1kvdcC906: United Chemicon KXJ series 100µF 450VC925: Chemicon KY 100µF 25V C940: Chemicon KYB 1200µF 63V C942, C943: Nichicon UCS 10uf 160vC944: Kemet R82 Series 1µF Film Capacitor 40V 63V Polyester, Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET), MetallizedC954: Chemicon kxj 39µF 160V C960-C970:  Chemicon KYB 1000UF 20% 25V R892, 894, 888, 889, 890, 891: Vishay HVR37 510K 1/2W 1%Schaffner AC inlet/IEC: Qualtek 858-03/007------------------------------------Accidents/Errors/Damage:C944, Positive lead;  Lifted pad on bottom of board. The top side of the board still has pad intact. Used multimeter on bottom side of the board and the C944 positive lead shares continuity with other components connected to the ground, I believe this means that the lifted bottom pad isn't a big deal that requires repair.C956: I made a mistake due to the capacitor list I was using being incorrect. Initially installed a Nichicon UPW 47µF 63V cap. I caught this mistake and replaced it with the stock 270uf +100-10% 40V cap which still tested good for ESR & Capacitance. Ordered & waiting on new cap (nichicon upw 330uf 50v). Not sure if powering on with this cap caused any damage but after removing the 47uf cap it still tested good, replacing the stock 270uf cap did not solve the scope anomaly.----------------------------Thanks for any insight, I will still be researching meanwhile and will update if I find anything out.Cheers,Gary R.Treasure Coast, Florida

Re: 2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video

chipbee40
 

Looking at your Youtube, something is obviously failing with heat so freeze spray would be helpful (upturned canned air is fine). My initial thought was U760 as the timebase is collapsing but I've not seen one fail such that the power led would flicker. Unplug the timebase, see if it still fails. (You are looking for the power LED to flicker, nice symptom, unusual!). Surprised the scope isn't tripping completely. I'd suggest monitoring the power rails to see if its just one rail failing or all rails. Complicated with switching supplies because all will drop on overload as the switcher detects a fault but not impossible to ascertain which rail is overloading. I would start by disconnecting the feed to the multiplier (so nothing on screen) and just observing the power led (or monitor the supplies) for any failings. You can also remove power to the attenuator board, an unlikely culprit but I have had the opamps go short. You could just pull all the power supply links and monitor the rails but without a load the fault might not show. What is the Y amp doing when it fails? Amplitude still good? Your replacement parts look ok. Hopefully you have checked the obvious, I've received these with loose screws jammed in unlikely places, solder bridges due to careless repairs. JC

Re: 2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video

Brendan
 

My first scope was a 2213A. I got it from the auction site. Stated all was working 100%. After powering on for several minutes it would lose its trace and go crazy. The previous owner had removed the board and there are little tabs that hold the board in place. One side of the board was not fit into the tab and the board was bent. after removing the board and making sure the board was in its proper place it has worked fine since and that was 7 years ago.

Brendan

Re: 2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video

tom jobe
 

I hope the 2213A owner follows JC's test plan, or some variation of it.
The 2213A needs a good logical plan to find this most unusual failure.
It's great to hear that David Hess has been helping him on this project over on the EEV Blog!
There are plenty of 22xx parts available once this mystery is solved.
tom jobe...

On 3/22/2019 4:45 PM, chipbee40 via Groups.Io wrote:
Looking at your Youtube, something is obviously failing with heat so freeze spray would be helpful (upturned canned air is fine). My initial thought was U760 as the timebase is collapsing but I've not seen one fail such that the power led would flicker. Unplug the timebase, see if it still fails. (You are looking for the power LED to flicker, nice symptom, unusual!). Surprised the scope isn't tripping completely. I'd suggest monitoring the power rails to see if its just one rail failing or all rails. Complicated with switching supplies because all will drop on overload as the switcher detects a fault but not impossible to ascertain which rail is overloading. I would start by disconnecting the feed to the multiplier (so nothing on screen) and just observing the power led (or monitor the supplies) for any failings. You can also remove power to the attenuator board, an unlikely culprit but I have had the opamps go short. You could just pull all the power supply links and monitor the rails but without a load the fault might not show. What is the Y amp doing when it fails? Amplitude still good? Your replacement parts look ok. Hopefully you have checked the obvious, I've received these with loose screws jammed in unlikely places, solder bridges due to careless repairs. JC

Re: 91% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol to clean potentiometers?

 

This topic has a dangerous habit of feeding on itself with information that has only tangential relevance to the subject of TekScopes.

I understand that we have more than a few members with chemistry backgrounds who can expound on this topic ad-infinitum, In addition there are many members with their own stories or experiences.

At this point there is very little of value that can be added to the pros and cons of using Isopropyl Alcohol on TekScopes. But each time someone tries it seems to annoy the vast majority of our members who, I can only conclude, seem to prefer their scopes dirty.

In deference to the majority I am requesting that this topic be put to bed for once and for all.

Thank you,
Dennis Tillman W7PF



--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator

Re: 2213A Novice, unsolved anomaly encountered, documented & video

Brian Cockburn
 

Hi Gary,
It might be helpful to drive an input from the 'probe adjust' output to be able to observe the state of the vertical when the horizontal collapses. Just a solid wire from probe adjust to the centre of the BNC will suffice. This would also expose the state of the trigger circuits as the collapse happens.
Cheers, Brian.

Re: Switch won't latch - 7CT1N

EJP
 

Rolynn

I'm sure you mean well, but there are no switches on any 7CT1N that are immediately behind the front panel. The shaft in question is six inches long, as I already stated. It is already obvious that the cleaning material should be introduced directly into the switch, not via gravity feed from the front panel, which is entirely infeasible. I have already done everything mentioned here with no improvement whatsoever. Evidently the issue is mechanical damage to the small rod's track.

EJP

Re: Switch won't latch - 7CT1N

ROLYNN PRECHTL K7DFW
 

I'm sure you mean well, but there are no switches on any 7CT1N that are immediately behind the front panel.
====================================================


Yes, I was thinking of the 576 when saying that.

Rolynn

2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

peterp@...
 

Hello all, I just got a 2230 scope from the (in)famous website to help me with some vacuum
tube ham radio equipment and it came with a fault. Here are some pictures and a short movie
that show the fault:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8cs0zp8pn14tlnf/AAAoo0du0uYqrawSGU265LGBa?dl=0

Both channels display correctly when the signal is in the lower half-plane of the display. As
the displayed signals are moved to the upper half plane their part that falls in the first quadrant
(upper right hand fourth of the display) distorts practically identically when each channel's signal is
in the same position vertically.

I searched the group and found a thread about an issue that may be related to mine. Unfortunately,
the details are greek to me :-) Here's the old posts:

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topic/7647928#70205

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/message/71388?p=,,,20,0,0,0::relevance,,2230+Displayed+signal,20,2,0,7648113

Also, if anyone has any leads to repair services in New Jersey please let me know. I also have a 2215A with ch2 inoperative and
a 475 that's screwed up so there's plenty of business for such a service.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Peter

11801 extender card

Reginald Beardsley
 

I want to investigate the possibility of replacing the 1.4 ps jitter clock with a modern device with sub ps jitter. As there is no component level documentation that I know of, doing this will require probing the running system.

Hence my search for an extender card. Does anyone know of a Tek part number or a source for a card? I'd design one, but I don't know how to use any of the PCB design tools and already have my hands full trying to master FPGA DSP design using Vivado and Quartus.

Thanks,
Reg

Re: 2247A PSU Troubleshooting

Nicholas Keller
 

I removed 8 diodes marked ZS last night and will order replacements today.
Will report back with results. Thanks again for all the help so far

Nick

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 9:37 AM <tekscopegroup@...> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 03:57 PM, tom jobe wrote:
There are about 17 one amp ultra fast diodes that are used to rectify
the low voltages on the secondary side of the transformer. About a dozen
of them are in a row next to the transformer in the middle of the A18
board and they are known to fail especially if they are marked "ZS" or
one other marking which I can't remember.
If they are marked ZM or ZS they are well known to get leaky. Replace
these diodes with MUR160 600V 1Amp from Mouser/DK.



Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

chipbee40
 

Sorry to give you bad news but the tube is damaged. Not much you can do except buy a donor scope for a tube (Your 2215A uses the same tube) JC

Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

Jörg Kirchhof
 

Hello Peter,

it looks like a magentization of the right upper corner of the magnetic
shield. You should de-gauss it.

Best regards

Joerg



peterp@... schrieb:
Hello all, I just got a 2230 scope from the (in)famous website to help me with some vacuum
tube ham radio equipment and it came with a fault. Here are some pictures and a short movie
that show the fault:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8cs0zp8pn14tlnf/AAAoo0du0uYqrawSGU265LGBa?dl=0

Both channels display correctly when the signal is in the lower half-plane of the display. As
the displayed signals are moved to the upper half plane their part that falls in the first quadrant
(upper right hand fourth of the display) distorts practically identically when each channel's signal is
in the same position vertically.

I searched the group and found a thread about an issue that may be related to mine. Unfortunately,
the details are greek to me :-) Here's the old posts:

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topic/7647928#70205

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/message/71388?p=,,,20,0,0,0::relevance,,2230+Displayed+signal,20,2,0,7648113

Also, if anyone has any leads to repair services in New Jersey please let me know. I also have a 2215A with ch2 inoperative and
a 475 that's screwed up so there's plenty of business for such a service.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Peter



---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Tek 547, 545a, and R561B for sale near me

David Berlind
 

Hey all.. spotted these 3 beauts for sale near me. Don't know the seller. But it's very close to me. Asking price for all 3 is $125. There's an extra 3A74 plug in that goes with the bunch. I have facilitated purchases and shipping for people in this group before (as some will attest to). However, I've yet to ship a Cadillac.

Re: Tek 547, 545a, and R561B for sale near me

Daniel Koller
 

Where are you? (zip code?)
  Dan

On Saturday, March 23, 2019 1:59 PM, David Berlind <david@...> wrote:


Hey all.. spotted these 3 beauts for sale near me. Don't know the seller. But it's very close to me. Asking price for all 3 is $125. There's an extra 3A74 plug in that goes with the bunch. I have facilitated purchases and shipping for people in this group before (as some will attest to). However, I've yet to ship a Cadillac.

Re: Tek 547, 545a, and R561B for sale near me

David Berlind
 

01950

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 2:03 PM Daniel Koller via Groups.Io <kaboomdk=
yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Where are you? (zip code?)
Dan


On Saturday, March 23, 2019 1:59 PM, David Berlind <david@...>
wrote:


Hey all.. spotted these 3 beauts for sale near me. Don't know the seller.
But it's very close to me. Asking price for all 3 is $125. There's an extra
3A74 plug in that goes with the bunch. I have facilitated purchases and
shipping for people in this group before (as some will attest to). However,
I've yet to ship a Cadillac.







Re: 2230 display distortion in the first quadrant

 

You have a damaged CRT.  Most likely from being dropped.

Regards

On 3/22/2019 10:46 AM, peterp@... wrote:
Hello all, I just got a 2230 scope from the (in)famous website to help me with some vacuum
tube ham radio equipment and it came with a fault. Here are some pictures and a short movie
that show the fault:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8cs0zp8pn14tlnf/AAAoo0du0uYqrawSGU265LGBa?dl=0

Both channels display correctly when the signal is in the lower half-plane of the display. As
the displayed signals are moved to the upper half plane their part that falls in the first quadrant
(upper right hand fourth of the display) distorts practically identically when each channel's signal is
in the same position vertically.

I searched the group and found a thread about an issue that may be related to mine. Unfortunately,
the details are greek to me :-) Here's the old posts:

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/topic/7647928#70205

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/message/71388?p=,,,20,0,0,0::relevance,,2230+Displayed+signal,20,2,0,7648113

Also, if anyone has any leads to repair services in New Jersey please let me know. I also have a 2215A with ch2 inoperative and
a 475 that's screwed up so there's plenty of business for such a service.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Peter


Re: 2247A PSU Troubleshooting

nielsentelecom@sbcglobal.net
 

Nick,

I replaced more than that on my 2246A supply. For the pain to remove the power supply, I thought it would be worth it. I may had others that were leaky, I don't recall.

I still have the old ones stashed away somewhere, I looked to see what I replaced, but I didn't find them. I thought it may be helpful to you.

NielsenTelecom

Re: 11801 extender card

nonIonizing EMF
 

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 06:58 AM, Reginald Beardsley wrote:


Does anyone know of a Tek part number or a source for a card?
I recently wrote a Wikipedia wiki regarding the Tektronix extenders as part of a JAMMA Connector wiki that was submitted and recommended to be merged with the JAMMA wiki. I updated the JAMMA wiki with all the references of that style edge connector I could find pretty much in the Other Origins section.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Amusement_Machine_and_Marketing_Association#Other_Origins:

If I missed anything... please reply and I'll update accordingly. I added some other edge connector type cables to while at it that I've seen related to Tektronix equipment also. I'm thinking I can write a separate wiki to one of these days or at least create a re-direct to.

Thanks