Date   
Re: Hello from new member w 2465A issues

Armin Schon
 

Opened the scope in the meantime and those are the ones, exactly. I guess they can be replaced by other types, don't have to be paper caps, or do they?

Re: Hello from new member w 2465A issues

Armin Schon
 

Thanks, will get me some of those then.

Sold! Two AM 503 CP Amps for parts or refurb

Bill (Doc) Courtright
 

AM503's sold. Thanks to those interested.


Hello,
I am trying to clean house a bit here. I have two AM 503 Current probe amps that are complete except for one latch but both have a smoke film mainly on one side due to a smoky fire elsewhere in my former storage area.
One is SN B031467 with a tan board and some leaky caps the other is B064903 newer with a green coat board and is clean on the component side. This one should be salvageable.
I would like $20 plus shipping for the pair. Due to their condition I would rather not put up on the auction site. Can e-mail pix on request.
Thanks,
Bill
KB3DKS

Viable alternative to Yahoo

Torch Fireman
 

On 24/01/2016 3:46 PM, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

I am not surprised the web interface has issues. I sometimes check to
see if email post are congruent with what is shown through the web
interface. I regret not having a viable alternative to Yahoo.
I've seen comments like this a few times in my short tenure here. How serious is the sentiment? What would be the preferred format: e-mail list or website forum?

I have the facilities to effect this, if it is actually a serious desire.

Re: Tek 2215

 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 01:36:53 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

There was another resistor change Tektronix made and I think it was for
reliability. The 2213 and 2215 use two 1/2 watt 1% metal film resistors
in series for the collector loads at the output of the vertical
amplifier. These resistors run hot making them unreliable and were the
first 2213/2215 repair that I made and I know of two other instances
where they had to be replaced. The later models used 3 resistors in
series for each collector load to distribute the heat better.

The collector load resistors are not difficult to replace so I would
change them also.
Are those the 4 resistors mounted to the board plus the two inline with V+
and V- on the left side of the board in this photo? One of my scopes has
one carbon comp and one carbon film for the two inline resistors. I'm
planning to replace the two inline resistors with Vishay CCF6015R0FKE36
and the 18K R877 with a Vishay CCF0718K0GKE36. I hadn't planned to replace
the 4 resistors on the board, but they look like they might be 1W parts.
I've seen photos of these boards where the board is discolored badly from
heat around those 4 resistors.

http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_3/1600/IMG_9288.1600.jpg
Sorry for taking so long to respond. Those are the ones.

The parts list says they are 1/2 watt 1% film 340 ohm resistors (and
metal film based on the part number) and since there was only one
modern choice matching that available, I was not picky. I bought 10
from Mouser, replaced the 4, and left the remaining 6 inside a bag
taped to the inside of the chassis with a note.

The originals in my case were visibly discolored and cracked and once
removed, their coating flaked off. I was able to replace them without
removing the CRT using needle nose pliers. The original parts were
spaced above the printed circuit board so I used the shaft from a
Q-tip as a temporary spacer during installation.

The replacements were physically smaller than the original parts. I
thought Tektronix might have selected the originals for good RF
performance but other than size, they are the same series of film
resistors used throughout the rest of the oscilloscope and a transient
response test showed that the new physically smaller replacements
worked fine.

I did not check it before since I did not have more than one resistor
to select from but the Dale MFF series datasheet says "very good high
frequency characteristics" for whatever that is worth:

http://www.33audio.com/enter/data/DaleFilmpart2.pdf

Re: Viable alternative to Yahoo

 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:05:28 -0500, you wrote:

On 24/01/2016 3:46 PM, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

I am not surprised the web interface has issues. I sometimes check to
see if email post are congruent with what is shown through the web
interface. I regret not having a viable alternative to Yahoo.
I've seen comments like this a few times in my short tenure here. How
serious is the sentiment? What would be the preferred format: e-mail
list or website forum?

I have the facilities to effect this, if it is actually a serious desire.
I doubt anybody is going to pay for it except voluntarily.

It would not be a replacement unless it support both email and web
access. Personally I have no idea how people put up with web access
to technical discussion forums but it is a good feature to have for
less experienced users. At the same time it is a lot less convenient
and useful than a simple email list server.

Re: Tek 2215

Tothwolf
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 01:36:53 -0600 (CST), you wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

There was another resistor change Tektronix made and I think it was for reliability. The 2213 and 2215 use two 1/2 watt 1% metal film resistors in series for the collector loads at the output of the vertical amplifier. These resistors run hot making them unreliable and were the first 2213/2215 repair that I made and I know of two other instances where they had to be replaced. The later models used 3 resistors in series for each collector load to distribute the heat better.

The collector load resistors are not difficult to replace so I would change them also.
Are those the 4 resistors mounted to the board plus the two inline with V+ and V- on the left side of the board in this photo? One of my scopes has one carbon comp and one carbon film for the two inline resistors. I'm planning to replace the two inline resistors with Vishay CCF6015R0FKE36 and the 18K R877 with a Vishay CCF0718K0GKE36. I hadn't planned to replace the 4 resistors on the board, but they look like they might be 1W parts. I've seen photos of these boards where the board is discolored badly from heat around those 4 resistors.

http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_3/1600/IMG_9288.1600.jpg
Sorry for taking so long to respond. Those are the ones.

The parts list says they are 1/2 watt 1% film 340 ohm resistors (and metal film based on the part number) and since there was only one modern choice matching that available, I was not picky. I bought 10 from Mouser, replaced the 4, and left the remaining 6 inside a bag taped to the inside of the chassis with a note.

The originals in my case were visibly discolored and cracked and once removed, their coating flaked off. I was able to replace them without removing the CRT using needle nose pliers. The original parts were spaced above the printed circuit board so I used the shaft from a Q-tip as a temporary spacer during installation.
I didn't notice any cracks in the coating of those resistors in my 2213 scopes. All 3 of my 2213 scopes have those 4 resistors mounted close to the board so I'm wondering now if I should replace them and space them away from the board. B0233xx in the photo above got a lot more use than either B0228xx or B0229xx and the board under those 4 resistors is just starting to discolor.

I initially only had the CRT out of B0233xx so I could replace the damaged front bezel.

I've been using Richco CER-6 ceramic spacers (~$0.073/ea) to space these type of components off the board (pointed end goes towards the board). I also used them on the preregulator boards when I replaced R911, 150K 1W carbon comp. The replacement metal oxide resistor in the photo below is actually a 2W part even though it is physically smaller than the original.

http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_2/1600/IMG_9112.1600.jpg

The replacements were physically smaller than the original parts. I thought Tektronix might have selected the originals for good RF performance but other than size, they are the same series of film resistors used throughout the rest of the oscilloscope and a transient response test showed that the new physically smaller replacements worked fine.

I did not check it before since I did not have more than one resistor to select from but the Dale MFF series datasheet says "very good high frequency characteristics" for whatever that is worth:

http://www.33audio.com/enter/data/DaleFilmpart2.pdf
These are the resistors you used in your scope? I'll add these to my notes to consider later when I finally get back to working on the 2213s.

Re: Viable alternative to Yahoo

Torch Fireman
 

Who said anything about charging or paying? I do not propose any fees (or advertising -- I hate advertising). I already have the bandwidth and storage to support this.

I was thinking of Mailman for an e-mail discussion list, or PHPBB for a web forum. Mailman has a web archive similar to Yahoo, but no means of submitting or replying via the web interface. PHPBB has e-mail notification capability, but posts are only via the web interface. If the ability to post from both e-mail and a web UI is important, I could try setting up a Drupal based site with Mailman integration, but I've not tried that before, so there would be a learning curve at my end.

On 25/01/2016 9:25 PM, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:


I doubt anybody is going to pay for it except voluntarily.

It would not be a replacement unless it support both email and web
access. Personally I have no idea how people put up with web access
to technical discussion forums but it is a good feature to have for
less experienced users. At the same time it is a lot less convenient
and useful than a simple email list server.

Re: Viable alternative to Yahoo

Tothwolf
 

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016, Dwayne Verhey tekscopes@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Who said anything about charging or paying? I do not propose any fees (or advertising -- I hate advertising). I already have the bandwidth and storage to support this.

I was thinking of Mailman for an e-mail discussion list, or PHPBB for a web forum. Mailman has a web archive similar to Yahoo, but no means of submitting or replying via the web interface. PHPBB has e-mail notification capability, but posts are only via the web interface. If the ability to post from both e-mail and a web UI is important, I could try setting up a Drupal based site with Mailman integration, but I've not tried that before, so there would be a learning curve at my end.
This is a perennial topic that comes up at least several times a year. Until Yahoo finally completely falls apart, I don't really see this email list/group going anywhere. I happen to know someone who has both the infrastructure and background to host these sorts of lists (already hosts a number of high traffic email lists and has done so for well over a decade), and if Yahoo does eventually go belly up or decide to discontinue support for these groups, he would be the first person I would contact.

Re: Viable alternative to Yahoo

stefan_trethan
 

This comes up every few months.
Short story is, as much as people dislike and distrust yahoo, in the
end it turns out they distrust you even more (hard truth, I know).

And they definitely do not like change, at all.

Until yahoo croaks for good (which is likely) you are wasting your time.
Time and time again yahoo has introduced ever more stupid changes, and
people said, right, that's it, we gotta be outta here. Nothing ever
happened. I have become convinced we hang on to the bitter end, even
if it comes down to communicating in morse code by clicking on
advertisements.

One suggestion that comes up most times is that the best option would
be to tack ourselves onto an exsisting reliable forum if yahoo goes
away. EEV blog from Dave Jones was named before as an example. As much
as I may dislike the personality the man runs a tidy ship and it would
seem entirely reasonable to me to use an established platform rather
than have someone set up something new.

ST

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 6:09 AM, Dwayne Verhey tekscopes@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
Who said anything about charging or paying? I do not propose any fees
(or advertising -- I hate advertising). I already have the bandwidth and
storage to support this.

I was thinking of Mailman for an e-mail discussion list, or PHPBB for a
web forum. Mailman has a web archive similar to Yahoo, but no means of
submitting or replying via the web interface. PHPBB has e-mail
notification capability, but posts are only via the web interface. If
the ability to post from both e-mail and a web UI is important, I could
try setting up a Drupal based site with Mailman integration, but I've
not tried that before, so there would be a learning curve at my end.


On 25/01/2016 9:25 PM, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:


I doubt anybody is going to pay for it except voluntarily.

It would not be a replacement unless it support both email and web
access. Personally I have no idea how people put up with web access
to technical discussion forums but it is a good feature to have for
less experienced users. At the same time it is a lot less convenient
and useful than a simple email list server.

Re: Tek 2215

Tothwolf
 

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

The replacements were physically smaller than the original parts. I
thought Tektronix might have selected the originals for good RF
performance but other than size, they are the same series of film
resistors used throughout the rest of the oscilloscope and a transient
response test showed that the new physically smaller replacements
worked fine.

I did not check it before since I did not have more than one resistor
to select from but the Dale MFF series datasheet says "very good high
frequency characteristics" for whatever that is worth:

http://www.33audio.com/enter/data/DaleFilmpart2.pdf
I believe I found them. They are actually the same Vishay/Dale CCF series I was going to use for R398 and R399, although it appears I inadvertently ordered 15 ohm instead of 51 ohm for those two (good thing I only purchased 10), so I guess those are going on the next parts order.

R378,R379,R388,R389 340 ohm 1% 1/2W metal film Dale MFF1226G340R0F

Replace with Vishay/Dale CCF60340RFKE36

R398,R399 51 ohm 5% 1/2W carbon comp Allen-Bradley EB5105

Replace with Vishay/Dale CCF6051R1FKE36 (51.1ohm, but close enough ;)

Test-Equipment Manuals Available

Brian <brianclarke01@...>
 

Hello folks,

I have these manuals available, all in VGC:

Hung Chang Multi-function counter, instruction manual, original

Marconi TF 144H series II operating and maintenance handbook, original

Solartron CD 1400 series technical manual, original

TEK Type 3L10 Spectrum analyzer plug-in instruction manual, comb-bound, copy

TEK Type B plug-in instruction manual, comb-bound, copy

TEK Type 1A1 plug-in instruction manual, comb-bound, copy

TEK Type 1A4 plug-in instruction manual, comb-bound, original

TEK Type 82 plug-in instruction manual, comb-bound, copy

TEK Type 130 L-C meter instruction manual, comb-bound, original

TEK Type 132 plug-in Power supply instruction manual, comb-bound, original

TEK Type 585A Oscilloscope, comb-bound, copy

Telequipment D43R oscilloscope mainframe, original

Telequipment Type C2 plug-in amplifier, original

Telequipment Type G plug-in amplifier, original

Please QSO off-line via email to haggle.

73 de Brian, VK2GCE.

Re: Tek 2215

 

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 00:42:40 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

The replacements were physically smaller than the original parts. I
thought Tektronix might have selected the originals for good RF
performance but other than size, they are the same series of film
resistors used throughout the rest of the oscilloscope and a transient
response test showed that the new physically smaller replacements
worked fine.

I did not check it before since I did not have more than one resistor
to select from but the Dale MFF series datasheet says "very good high
frequency characteristics" for whatever that is worth:

http://www.33audio.com/enter/data/DaleFilmpart2.pdf
I believe I found them. They are actually the same Vishay/Dale CCF series
I was going to use for R398 and R399, although it appears I inadvertently
ordered 15 ohm instead of 51 ohm for those two (good thing I only
purchased 10), so I guess those are going on the next parts order.

R378,R379,R388,R389 340 ohm 1% 1/2W metal film Dale MFF1226G340R0F

Replace with Vishay/Dale CCF60340RFKE36

R398,R399 51 ohm 5% 1/2W carbon comp Allen-Bradley EB5105

Replace with Vishay/Dale CCF6051R1FKE36 (51.1ohm, but close enough ;)
There is probably no reason to preemptively replace them if close
inspection shows no damage. On the one I repaired, the resistors were
visibly discolored but the cracks could not be seen with the CRT in
place until they were removed.

The symptom of attenuated and nonlinear vertical deflection pointed
directly at the collector load resistors and ohms measurement from the
bottom of the printed circuit board conclusively showed they were bad.
They were the first thing I checked because it was easy to do and
visual inspection showed that the printed circuit board itself was
discolored from high temperature in the area under and around them.

The value for the 51 ohm series resistors is not critical but I wonder
how hot they run and about higher parasitic inductance of spiral cut
film resistors. Why did Tektronix use carbon composition resistors
there?

Re: Tek 2215

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

The symptom of attenuated and nonlinear vertical deflection pointed directly at the collector load
resistors and ohms measurement from the bottom of the printed circuit board conclusively showed
they were bad.
They were the first thing I checked because it was easy to do and visual inspection showed that
the
printed circuit board itself was discolored from high temperature in the area under and around
them.

The value for the 51 ohm series resistors is not critical but I wonder how hot they run and about
higher
parasitic inductance of spiral cut film resistors. Why did Tektronix use carbon composition
resistors
there?


------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH>
------------------------------------
Tek had a bit of a blind spot when it came to power dissipation in resistors on circuit boards.
They invariably mounted them tight to the board. So even if the part was operating inside its
dissipation limit, that power specification is always quoted by the resistor manufacturer "in free
air". Resistors which are dissipating a decent percentage of their power limit should be mounted on
spacers (which can be just a few mm) to ensure good air flow. If you put them tight to the board,
the contact is a hot spot which (a) discolours, or in some instances burns the board and (b)
compromises the lifetime of the resistor. Seen the same thing is some classic era Fluke gear too.

Re: Tek 2215

Tothwolf
 

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 00:42:40 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

I believe I found them. They are actually the same Vishay/Dale CCF series I was going to use for R398 and R399, although it appears I inadvertently ordered 15 ohm instead of 51 ohm for those two (good thing I only purchased 10), so I guess those are going on the next parts order.

R378,R379,R388,R389 340 ohm 1% 1/2W metal film Dale MFF1226G340R0F

Replace with Vishay/Dale CCF60340RFKE36

R398,R399 51 ohm 5% 1/2W carbon comp Allen-Bradley EB5105

Replace with Vishay/Dale CCF6051R1FKE36 (51.1ohm, but close enough ;)
There is probably no reason to preemptively replace them if close inspection shows no damage. On the one I repaired, the resistors were visibly discolored but the cracks could not be seen with the CRT in place until they were removed.
I was mainly thinking if I space them away from the boards, there will be less heat to discolor the boards in B0228xx and B0229xx, and will also help prevent any further heat damage to B0233xx.

The symptom of attenuated and nonlinear vertical deflection pointed directly at the collector load resistors and ohms measurement from the bottom of the printed circuit board conclusively showed they were bad. They were the first thing I checked because it was easy to do and visual inspection showed that the printed circuit board itself was discolored from high temperature in the area under and around them.
I could certainly measure them with a thermocouple, however since the board in B0233xx is showing signs discoloration/heat damage just around R378,R379,R388,R389, that alone probably means those resistors are running hot enough where they shouldn't be in direct contact with the board.

The value for the 51 ohm series resistors is not critical but I wonder how hot they run and about higher parasitic inductance of spiral cut film resistors. Why did Tektronix use carbon composition resistors there?
Given that one of the scopes had one carbon film and one carbon comp fitted for R398 and R399 from the factory, it may be that the carbon comp resistors were just readily available 1/2W resistors. I came across this with other 1/4W and 1/2W resistors in these scopes where carbon film and carbon comp seemed to be used almost interchangeably. The downside to the carbon comp parts of course, is that many of them have drifted out of spec, which is why I've replaced quite a few with metal oxide or carbon film parts.

Re: Tektronix TDS754D Fail++ Processor error + firmware

 

I have a DS1486 binary with 13 1F 1M 2F and 2C.
If you put the binary into your DS1486 chip you'll also gain option 1M.
You'll need a stand-alone programmer. send me an email and I'll get it to you.
Jay

Re: Tek 2215

Tothwolf
 

On Tue, 26 Jan 2016, 'Craig Sawyers' c.sawyers@... [TekScopes] wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jan 2016, David @DWH [TekScopes] wrote:

The symptom of attenuated and nonlinear vertical deflection pointed directly at the collector load resistors and ohms measurement from the bottom of the printed circuit board conclusively showed they were bad. They were the first thing I checked because it was easy to do and visual inspection showed that the printed circuit board itself was discolored from high temperature in the area under and around them.

The value for the 51 ohm series resistors is not critical but I wonder how hot they run and about higher parasitic inductance of spiral cut film resistors. Why did Tektronix use carbon composition resistors there?
Tek had a bit of a blind spot when it came to power dissipation in resistors on circuit boards. They invariably mounted them tight to the board. So even if the part was operating inside its dissipation limit, that power specification is always quoted by the resistor manufacturer "in free air". Resistors which are dissipating a decent percentage of their power limit should be mounted on spacers (which can be just a few mm) to ensure good air flow. If you put them tight to the board, the contact is a hot spot which (a) discolours, or in some instances burns the board and (b) compromises the lifetime of the resistor. Seen the same thing is some classic era Fluke gear too.
Maybe mounting such resistors directly to the board was part of the new low-cost process Tektronix was using for the 2213/2215 scopes? All of the boards apart from the preregulator add-on board were made from a single panel which was snapped apart after soldering and all of the components had their leads clenched to hold them into the boards during the wave soldering process.

The only real exception I noted was R911 near the center of the preregulator boards. It is hard to see in the photos, but the original R911 had formed leads to keep it spaced away from the board.

http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_2/1600/IMG_8886.1600.jpg
http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_3/1600/IMG_9379.1600.jpg

Do you think the Richco CER-6 spacers will be sufficient for R378,R379,R388,R389? With a single spacer under each lead, a Vishay/Dale CCF60340RFKE36 resistor would probably only be 2-3mm away from the board, although the spacers are designed so they can be stacked.

One other issue I noticed which I forgot to mention in my posts to the list last year was the metal bracket that the focus control is mounted to was showing signs of tin whisker growth in all 3 of my 2213 scopes. While I had it and the potentiometer removed so I could replace the 6 1M ohm resistors, I lightly abraded the surface of the bracket to knock the tin whiskers down, but I know if I leave the plating as-is, they will without a doubt eventually return. I am considering using electrolysis to strip the tin plating and then replate the steel bracket with nickel. You can just barely see eruptions in the tin plating on the right side of the bracket in this photo, but up close, 3-5mm long tin whiskers were pretty easy to see.

http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_3/1600/IMG_9288.1600.jpg

Re: Tek 2215

stefan_trethan
 

You might be able to tin the sheetmetal using 60/40 solder and a big
soldering iron or a hotplate or something.
That would solve the problem for good.

(Although light brushing and painting with some acrylic laquer would
probably suffice to eliminate any issues during your lifetime).

ST


On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Tothwolf tothwolf@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

One other issue I noticed which I forgot to mention in my posts to the
list last year was the metal bracket that the focus control is mounted to
was showing signs of tin whisker growth in all 3 of my 2213 scopes. While
I had it and the potentiometer removed so I could replace the 6 1M ohm
resistors, I lightly abraded the surface of the bracket to knock the tin
whiskers down, but I know if I leave the plating as-is, they will without
a doubt eventually return. I am considering using electrolysis to strip
the tin plating and then replate the steel bracket with nickel. You can
just barely see eruptions in the tin plating on the right side of the
bracket in this photo, but up close, 3-5mm long tin whiskers were pretty
easy to see.

http://strudel.ignorelist.com/~tothwolf/photos/Tektronix_2213/Tektronix_2213_3/1600/IMG_9288.1600.jpg


------------------------------------
Posted by: Tothwolf <tothwolf@...>
------------------------------------

Re: Viable alternative to Yahoo

 

SPOT ON , Stefan!!!

"Short story is, as much as people dislike and distrust yahoo, in the
end it turns out they distrust you even more (hard truth, I know).

And they definitely do not like change, at all.

Until yahoo croaks for good (which is likely) you are wasting your time."

Re: Tek 2215

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Maybe mounting such resistors directly to the board was part of the new low-cost process Tektronix
was using for the 2213/2215 scopes? All of the boards apart from the preregulator add-on board
were
made from a single panel which was snapped apart after soldering and all of the components had
their
leads clenched to hold them into the boards during the wave soldering process.
Nope - the 7000 series is exactly the same. Main culprits are the x amplifier in most, and HT
resistor stack on the 7704A (Tek changed the design of that many times - earlier versions carbonised
the PCB).

Craig