Date   
Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Tam Hanna
 

Hello,
That is a very difficult decision - especially given that I plan to offer a few products in this range in the not-so-far future (replacement displays and shit).

IMHO, the problem we see here is a very interesting one: the amount of Danaher curve tracers, for example, is finite. If I now offer an upgrade for a specific model, it's owners will jump at the opportunity. Sadly, this is not all good: every upgrade sold reduces my market, if you get my drift. And the reduction stays there - at least at Tamoggemon, whenever we sell on a piece of gear, the new owner gets a copy of the device book and any support infrastructure.

So, from my view - I am not an economist - we are seing a cannibalization similar to Aids. If everyone has Aids, the virus has a harder time to find new victims.

Also, about the manual sellers: what you guys IMHO see is two additional things: a) people being -prohibit my ancient talmudic - schundbosse and sharing the PdFs and b) more and more repair logs etc leaking out. I admit I am also to blame - my HP 53301A video showed but a small snippet of the schematics, but might still demotivate one or two buyers. And then, sometimes, one gets gouged 160e for the last copy of a service manual...and then, one decides "Yann minzem boss" and scans it in, feeding BAMA and distroying that part of the market.

Tam
--
With best regards
Tam Hanna
---

NEW: Enjoy electronics? Like seeing oscilloscopes get repaired? Please
subscribe to my new YouTube channel -> http://www.youtube.com/user/MrTamhan

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Bert Haskins
 

On 5/13/2017 11:30 AM, Artek Manuals manuals@... [TekScopes] wrote:
Dennis

I couldn't agree more and even at $100K you quickly come to the
conclusion that this is not a good business deal in this day and age. IF
they had made an effort to sell off the collection the day Dean went
into the assisted living facility and then put the money in some low
risk annuity they would be living out at the beach today. But that bus
left the terminal 6-10 years ago

I had a large collection (about 6000 volumes) of mostly HP service
manuals when I left MN to retire in FL in 2014. The math said it would
take 10 years just to recover the moving cost, in the end I almost
couldn't give them away and I was one week from taking them to recycle
dumpster when a local rode in and picked them up. I was approached by
Manuals Plus to take their collection a year later at a "very reasonable
price". In the end I estimated that it would take 4 to 6 semi-truck
loads just to bring it to Florida...when I did the return on investment
calculation it made no sense at all , and besides it would have put a
serious crimp in my ability to go fishing :-). ..... At 70 you really
have to have your priorities straight

73
Dave
NR1DX (ex N7EX by the way)
manuals@...

On 5/13/2017 10:42 AM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes]
wrote:
TO ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA:

What is your ultimate goal? I believe the answer to that question is you
want a source of replacement parts at a reasonable price. The picture is
very different when you take into account what steps are necessary before
you can sell a single part. Here are some of the critical questions
you need
to consider and put a price to as I did.

I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between
$100,000
and $500,000 and they were all turned down. Let's assume $1,000,000
will get
a better response.

There are about 6,000 active user accounts in TekScopes. We have about
4,000
ACTIVE members. Of that 4,000 assume that about half are maintaining Tek
equipment for which Deane has parts. There is no point to the other 2,000
for making a contribution if they are using more modern Tek equipment for
which Deane never had any parts.

So now if 2,000 people each contributed $500 we would reach $1,000,000
which
MIGHT get her interest. Before you can make a legitimate offer you need to
know that you are buying something that is actually worth $1,000,000.
Who is
going to do a "Due Diligence" survey of the inventory in Deane's
estate that
you are going to buy with your $1,000,000. This has to be done before you
make the offer. This is necessary to determine if your donors will ever be
able to recoup their investment. That is a huge job. Assume you do
discover
that Deane's estate is worth the 1 million and that she accepts your
offer.

Then what? This is where the rubber meets the road... Here are just a
few of
the things you have to deal with next.

1) Where are you going to put all of the boxes?
2) What will the storage costs be per month? I would guess $10,000 per
month
for 6,000 square feet of storage. That is >$100,000 per year. Remember you
are going to have to be able to get to each box if you want to be able to
sell the parts in them so you can't just cram boxes together. You need
aisles which are wasted space.
3) How will you catalog the contents of 10,000 boxes? Someone will have to
create a database application to do this so you will be able to locate
parts
people want to buy.
4) What is a fair price for each item? This is probably the hardest
question
to answer. Suppose you put a reasonable price on a part What is reasonable
to one person won't be reasonable to someone else. So how do you price the
parts? How do you deal with irate buyers expecting bargain prices for
obsolete parts?
5) Who will provide all the labor to move, organize, catalog and price all
the parts? The Forum members aren't going to do it. There are only a
few in
the Beaverton area. So all of this will require you hire a temporary
staff.
By my seat-of-the-pants estimate this will be something between a 1
Man-Year
effort and a 5 Man-year effort. That costs $30,000 to $150,000.
6) Assuming you come up with some magic way to do all that, what comes
next?
I expect all the contributors will want something for their $500
contribution. So you will need someone to fulfil orders. That is
probably a
full time job so you have a $30,000 salary to pay.
7) One more thing: How do you handle obsolescence? The parts Deane has are
for 1970s and 1980s instruments. Most of our members are now buying newer
equipment and there are no replaceable parts in these instruments. All of
Deane's inventory is decaying into obsolescence every minute.
8) At some point the "bloom will be off the rose" and the orders for parts
won't provide enough revenue to justify a person to fill the orders.
Sometime after that the "business" or whatever you call this thing better
have been saving up for the day when they will have to pay dump fees
to get
rid of all this electronic equipment.

MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THIS IS IMPRACTICAL. I HOPE YOU SEE THIS EMAIL AS A
CRITICAL EVALUATION OF THE TOTAL COST OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. IN
CASE IT
WASN'T CLEAR BY NOW I HAVE NO INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS MYSELF.

I AM SURE THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I
RAISE AND THE COSTS I ESTIMATED FOR SOLVING THEM. DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY
WHAT I SAID. I HAVE BEEN WRONG MOST OF MY LIFE AND I HAVE PLENTY OF LIFE
EXPERIENCES TO SUPPORT THAT OPINION. IF SOME BRAVE SOUL WHO IS MORE
OPTIMISTIC THAN ME WANTS TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ENTERPRISE
I WISH
THEM LUCK. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE $500 LYING AROUND TO CONTRIBUTE
TO THE
CAUSE.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 11:32 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on
UK eBay

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an
offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.
------------------------------------
Posted by: AncelB <mosaicmerc@...>
------------------------------------
That seems an excellent idea. If everyone on the Tekscopes list paid $10
that would raise $80k, which would go a long way to extracting the
stuff and
for storage.

On another and related topic, someone I know in the UK acquired a
hoard (and
is progressively putting it on eBay) that includes a complete set of many
many thousands of Tektronix fiches in a special set of filing
cabinets, and
is wondering what the hell to do with them or how much they are worth.

Craig

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

"and besides it would have put a
serious crimp in my ability to go fishing :-). ..... At 70 you really
have to have your priorities straight"

Dave, keep your priorities straight.
I'm 83 and can no longer take my salmon boat out alone.
I certainly wish that I had used it more when I was able to.
As to the market, I have put some scopes up on CL at very low prices and got zero response.

- Bert

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

 

Hi Dave,
Hi Dave,

I didn't mention the double wide RV garage filled with Tek manuals on
Deane's property for this very reason. Thanks for reminding me. I should
have included it in my previous post as another large expense to dispose of
that large suppository [sic] of worthless manuals.

One more thing that I am totally appalled by: A number of vultures offered
to pay for the privilege to come in and cherry pick through Deane's basement
of parts before Deane was even buried. Deane's daughter was still in shock
and she had to deal with these guys peering into the windows of the house.
Who knows whether they would have broken in to the house if there hadn't
been someone there.

Disgusting.

73
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 8:31 AM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Dennis

I couldn't agree more and even at $100K you quickly come to the conclusion
that this is not a good business deal in this day and age. IF they had made
an effort to sell off the collection the day Dean went into the assisted
living facility and then put the money in some low risk annuity they would
be living out at the beach today. But that bus left the terminal 6-10 years
ago

I had a large collection (about 6000 volumes) of mostly HP service manuals
when I left MN to retire in FL in 2014. The math said it would take 10 years
just to recover the moving cost, in the end I almost couldn't give them away
and I was one week from taking them to recycle dumpster when a local rode
in and picked them up. I was approached by Manuals Plus to take their
collection a year later at a "very reasonable price". In the end I estimated
that it would take 4 to 6 semi-truck loads just to bring it to
Florida...when I did the return on investment calculation it made no sense
at all , and besides it would have put a serious crimp in my ability to go
fishing :-). ..... At 70 you really have to have your priorities straight

73
Dave
NR1DX (ex N7EX by the way)
manuals@...

On 5/13/2017 10:42 AM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes]
wrote:

TO ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA:

What is your ultimate goal? I believe the answer to that question is
you want a source of replacement parts at a reasonable price. The
picture is very different when you take into account what steps are
necessary before you can sell a single part. Here are some of the
critical questions you need to consider and put a price to as I did.

I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between
$100,000
and $500,000 and they were all turned down. Let's assume $1,000,000
will get a better response.

There are about 6,000 active user accounts in TekScopes. We have about
4,000
ACTIVE members. Of that 4,000 assume that about half are maintaining
Tek equipment for which Deane has parts. There is no point to the
other 2,000 for making a contribution if they are using more modern
Tek equipment for which Deane never had any parts.

So now if 2,000 people each contributed $500 we would reach $1,000,000
which MIGHT get her interest. Before you can make a legitimate offer
you need to know that you are buying something that is actually worth
$1,000,000.
Who is
going to do a "Due Diligence" survey of the inventory in Deane's
estate that you are going to buy with your $1,000,000. This has to be
done before you make the offer. This is necessary to determine if your
donors will ever be able to recoup their investment. That is a huge
job. Assume you do discover that Deane's estate is worth the 1 million
and that she accepts your offer.

Then what? This is where the rubber meets the road... Here are just a
few of the things you have to deal with next.

1) Where are you going to put all of the boxes?
2) What will the storage costs be per month? I would guess $10,000 per
month for 6,000 square feet of storage. That is >$100,000 per year.
Remember you are going to have to be able to get to each box if you
want to be able to sell the parts in them so you can't just cram boxes
together. You need aisles which are wasted space.
3) How will you catalog the contents of 10,000 boxes? Someone will
have to create a database application to do this so you will be able
to locate parts people want to buy.
4) What is a fair price for each item? This is probably the hardest
question to answer. Suppose you put a reasonable price on a part What
is reasonable to one person won't be reasonable to someone else. So
how do you price the parts? How do you deal with irate buyers
expecting bargain prices for obsolete parts?
5) Who will provide all the labor to move, organize, catalog and price
all the parts? The Forum members aren't going to do it. There are only
a few in the Beaverton area. So all of this will require you hire a
temporary staff.
By my seat-of-the-pants estimate this will be something between a 1
Man-Year effort and a 5 Man-year effort. That costs $30,000 to
$150,000.
6) Assuming you come up with some magic way to do all that, what comes
next?
I expect all the contributors will want something for their $500
contribution. So you will need someone to fulfil orders. That is
probably a full time job so you have a $30,000 salary to pay.
7) One more thing: How do you handle obsolescence? The parts Deane has
are for 1970s and 1980s instruments. Most of our members are now
buying newer equipment and there are no replaceable parts in these
instruments. All of Deane's inventory is decaying into obsolescence every
minute.
8) At some point the "bloom will be off the rose" and the orders for
parts won't provide enough revenue to justify a person to fill the orders.
Sometime after that the "business" or whatever you call this thing
better have been saving up for the day when they will have to pay dump
fees to get rid of all this electronic equipment.

MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THIS IS IMPRACTICAL. I HOPE YOU SEE THIS EMAIL
AS A CRITICAL EVALUATION OF THE TOTAL COST OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING.
IN CASE IT WASN'T CLEAR BY NOW I HAVE NO INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS
MYSELF.

I AM SURE THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE
QUESTIONS I RAISE AND THE COSTS I ESTIMATED FOR SOLVING THEM. DON'T BE
DISCOURAGED BY WHAT I SAID. I HAVE BEEN WRONG MOST OF MY LIFE AND I
HAVE PLENTY OF LIFE EXPERIENCES TO SUPPORT THAT OPINION. IF SOME BRAVE
SOUL WHO IS MORE OPTIMISTIC THAN ME WANTS TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR
THIS ENTERPRISE I WISH THEM LUCK. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE $500
LYING AROUND TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE CAUSE.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 11:32 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on
UK eBay

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an
offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.
------------------------------------
Posted by: AncelB <mosaicmerc@...>
------------------------------------
That seems an excellent idea. If everyone on the Tekscopes list paid
$10 that would raise $80k, which would go a long way to extracting the
stuff and for storage.

On another and related topic, someone I know in the UK acquired a
hoard (and is progressively putting it on eBay) that includes a
complete set of many many thousands of Tektronix fiches in a special
set of filing cabinets, and is wondering what the hell to do with them
or how much they are worth.

Craig

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Dave Daniel
 

Is there any sense as to why she hasn't sold? That would be a key factor
in understanding what to do with the parts.

DaveD

On 5/13/2017 8:42 AM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes]
wrote:

TO ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA:

What is your ultimate goal? I believe the answer to that question is you
want a source of replacement parts at a reasonable price. The picture is
very different when you take into account what steps are necessary before
you can sell a single part. Here are some of the critical questions
you need
to consider and put a price to as I did.

I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between
$100,000
and $500,000 and they were all turned down. Let's assume $1,000,000
will get
a better response.

There are about 6,000 active user accounts in TekScopes. We have about
4,000
ACTIVE members. Of that 4,000 assume that about half are maintaining Tek
equipment for which Deane has parts. There is no point to the other 2,000
for making a contribution if they are using more modern Tek equipment for
which Deane never had any parts.

So now if 2,000 people each contributed $500 we would reach $1,000,000
which
MIGHT get her interest. Before you can make a legitimate offer you need to
know that you are buying something that is actually worth $1,000,000.
Who is
going to do a "Due Diligence" survey of the inventory in Deane's
estate that
you are going to buy with your $1,000,000. This has to be done before you
make the offer. This is necessary to determine if your donors will ever be
able to recoup their investment. That is a huge job. Assume you do
discover
that Deane's estate is worth the 1 million and that she accepts your
offer.

Then what? This is where the rubber meets the road... Here are just a
few of
the things you have to deal with next.

1) Where are you going to put all of the boxes?
2) What will the storage costs be per month? I would guess $10,000 per
month
for 6,000 square feet of storage. That is >$100,000 per year. Remember you
are going to have to be able to get to each box if you want to be able to
sell the parts in them so you can't just cram boxes together. You need
aisles which are wasted space.
3) How will you catalog the contents of 10,000 boxes? Someone will have to
create a database application to do this so you will be able to locate
parts
people want to buy.
4) What is a fair price for each item? This is probably the hardest
question
to answer. Suppose you put a reasonable price on a part What is reasonable
to one person won't be reasonable to someone else. So how do you price the
parts? How do you deal with irate buyers expecting bargain prices for
obsolete parts?
5) Who will provide all the labor to move, organize, catalog and price all
the parts? The Forum members aren't going to do it. There are only a
few in
the Beaverton area. So all of this will require you hire a temporary
staff.
By my seat-of-the-pants estimate this will be something between a 1
Man-Year
effort and a 5 Man-year effort. That costs $30,000 to $150,000.
6) Assuming you come up with some magic way to do all that, what comes
next?
I expect all the contributors will want something for their $500
contribution. So you will need someone to fulfil orders. That is
probably a
full time job so you have a $30,000 salary to pay.
7) One more thing: How do you handle obsolescence? The parts Deane has are
for 1970s and 1980s instruments. Most of our members are now buying newer
equipment and there are no replaceable parts in these instruments. All of
Deane's inventory is decaying into obsolescence every minute.
8) At some point the "bloom will be off the rose" and the orders for parts
won't provide enough revenue to justify a person to fill the orders.
Sometime after that the "business" or whatever you call this thing better
have been saving up for the day when they will have to pay dump fees
to get
rid of all this electronic equipment.

MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THIS IS IMPRACTICAL. I HOPE YOU SEE THIS EMAIL AS A
CRITICAL EVALUATION OF THE TOTAL COST OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. IN
CASE IT
WASN'T CLEAR BY NOW I HAVE NO INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS MYSELF.

I AM SURE THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I
RAISE AND THE COSTS I ESTIMATED FOR SOLVING THEM. DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY
WHAT I SAID. I HAVE BEEN WRONG MOST OF MY LIFE AND I HAVE PLENTY OF LIFE
EXPERIENCES TO SUPPORT THAT OPINION. IF SOME BRAVE SOUL WHO IS MORE
OPTIMISTIC THAN ME WANTS TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ENTERPRISE
I WISH
THEM LUCK. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE $500 LYING AROUND TO CONTRIBUTE
TO THE
CAUSE.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 11:32 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on
UK eBay

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an
offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.
------------------------------------
Posted by: AncelB <mosaicmerc@...>
------------------------------------
That seems an excellent idea. If everyone on the Tekscopes list paid $10
that would raise $80k, which would go a long way to extracting the
stuff and
for storage.

On another and related topic, someone I know in the UK acquired a
hoard (and
is progressively putting it on eBay) that includes a complete set of many
many thousands of Tektronix fiches in a special set of filing
cabinets, and
is wondering what the hell to do with them or how much they are worth.

Craig

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

mosaicmerc
 

Actually, I was thinking of the cost as buying the stuff as scrap electronics. Which 80% probably is.
If the owner thinks otherwise she'd have considered it more of a decaying asset and sold it already.

This could simply be a case of waiting out the owner until they realise it's not a goldmine but a growing headache of boat anchors.

I'd suggest Tekscopes make the contact and allow time to do its work. One day the owner will realise the reality.

There is also the option of visiting the stash and offering on a portion of it. Don't worry about sophisticated cataloging....just 10 boxes of TM5xx plugins, 5 boxes of 7000 plugins...or whatever looks useful.

Offer a spot price and take one vanload. No need to buy the lake if you can take & monetize a few buckets at a time.

In my case I'd commit/risk $120 upfront in exchange for a S 52 pulse head out of the stash. Also I'm interested in a decent 3Ghz freq. counter, although HP seems to be the heavyweight in that space.

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

John Griessen
 

On 05/13/2017 09:42 AM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes] wrote:
I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between $100,000
and $500,000 and they were all turned down.
Ah, well the heirs can dream on...

"you really
have to have your priorities straight"

Yep. At age 60 same thing. Next.

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between $100,000 and $500,000 and
they were all turned down. Let's assume $1,000,000 will get a better response.
Wow. Just wow.

I'd almost PAY someone to clear the stuff out. If no-one will pay for it (and no one will at those
prices, or even a tenth that absolute maximum) then it is de facto worthless.

I'm still reeling at those numbers. What on earth are Deane's offspring thinking about?

Craig

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

ArtekManuals
 

Dennis

I couldn't agree more and even at $100K you quickly come to the
conclusion that this is not a good business deal in this day and age. IF
they had made an effort to sell off the collection the day Dean went
into the assisted living facility and then put the money in some low
risk annuity they would be living out at the beach today. But that bus
left the terminal 6-10 years ago

I had a large collection (about 6000 volumes) of mostly HP service
manuals when I left MN to retire in FL in 2014. The math said it would
take 10 years just to recover the moving cost, in the end I almost
couldn't give them away and I was one week from taking them to recycle
dumpster when a local rode in and picked them up. I was approached by
Manuals Plus to take their collection a year later at a "very reasonable
price". In the end I estimated that it would take 4 to 6 semi-truck
loads just to bring it to Florida...when I did the return on investment
calculation it made no sense at all , and besides it would have put a
serious crimp in my ability to go fishing :-). ..... At 70 you really
have to have your priorities straight

73
Dave
NR1DX (ex N7EX by the way)
manuals@...

On 5/13/2017 10:42 AM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes]
wrote:

TO ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA:

What is your ultimate goal? I believe the answer to that question is you
want a source of replacement parts at a reasonable price. The picture is
very different when you take into account what steps are necessary before
you can sell a single part. Here are some of the critical questions
you need
to consider and put a price to as I did.

I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between
$100,000
and $500,000 and they were all turned down. Let's assume $1,000,000
will get
a better response.

There are about 6,000 active user accounts in TekScopes. We have about
4,000
ACTIVE members. Of that 4,000 assume that about half are maintaining Tek
equipment for which Deane has parts. There is no point to the other 2,000
for making a contribution if they are using more modern Tek equipment for
which Deane never had any parts.

So now if 2,000 people each contributed $500 we would reach $1,000,000
which
MIGHT get her interest. Before you can make a legitimate offer you need to
know that you are buying something that is actually worth $1,000,000.
Who is
going to do a "Due Diligence" survey of the inventory in Deane's
estate that
you are going to buy with your $1,000,000. This has to be done before you
make the offer. This is necessary to determine if your donors will ever be
able to recoup their investment. That is a huge job. Assume you do
discover
that Deane's estate is worth the 1 million and that she accepts your
offer.

Then what? This is where the rubber meets the road... Here are just a
few of
the things you have to deal with next.

1) Where are you going to put all of the boxes?
2) What will the storage costs be per month? I would guess $10,000 per
month
for 6,000 square feet of storage. That is >$100,000 per year. Remember you
are going to have to be able to get to each box if you want to be able to
sell the parts in them so you can't just cram boxes together. You need
aisles which are wasted space.
3) How will you catalog the contents of 10,000 boxes? Someone will have to
create a database application to do this so you will be able to locate
parts
people want to buy.
4) What is a fair price for each item? This is probably the hardest
question
to answer. Suppose you put a reasonable price on a part What is reasonable
to one person won't be reasonable to someone else. So how do you price the
parts? How do you deal with irate buyers expecting bargain prices for
obsolete parts?
5) Who will provide all the labor to move, organize, catalog and price all
the parts? The Forum members aren't going to do it. There are only a
few in
the Beaverton area. So all of this will require you hire a temporary
staff.
By my seat-of-the-pants estimate this will be something between a 1
Man-Year
effort and a 5 Man-year effort. That costs $30,000 to $150,000.
6) Assuming you come up with some magic way to do all that, what comes
next?
I expect all the contributors will want something for their $500
contribution. So you will need someone to fulfil orders. That is
probably a
full time job so you have a $30,000 salary to pay.
7) One more thing: How do you handle obsolescence? The parts Deane has are
for 1970s and 1980s instruments. Most of our members are now buying newer
equipment and there are no replaceable parts in these instruments. All of
Deane's inventory is decaying into obsolescence every minute.
8) At some point the "bloom will be off the rose" and the orders for parts
won't provide enough revenue to justify a person to fill the orders.
Sometime after that the "business" or whatever you call this thing better
have been saving up for the day when they will have to pay dump fees
to get
rid of all this electronic equipment.

MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THIS IS IMPRACTICAL. I HOPE YOU SEE THIS EMAIL AS A
CRITICAL EVALUATION OF THE TOTAL COST OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. IN
CASE IT
WASN'T CLEAR BY NOW I HAVE NO INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS MYSELF.

I AM SURE THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I
RAISE AND THE COSTS I ESTIMATED FOR SOLVING THEM. DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY
WHAT I SAID. I HAVE BEEN WRONG MOST OF MY LIFE AND I HAVE PLENTY OF LIFE
EXPERIENCES TO SUPPORT THAT OPINION. IF SOME BRAVE SOUL WHO IS MORE
OPTIMISTIC THAN ME WANTS TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ENTERPRISE
I WISH
THEM LUCK. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE $500 LYING AROUND TO CONTRIBUTE
TO THE
CAUSE.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 11:32 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on
UK eBay

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an
offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.
------------------------------------
Posted by: AncelB <mosaicmerc@...>
------------------------------------
That seems an excellent idea. If everyone on the Tekscopes list paid $10
that would raise $80k, which would go a long way to extracting the
stuff and
for storage.

On another and related topic, someone I know in the UK acquired a
hoard (and
is progressively putting it on eBay) that includes a complete set of many
many thousands of Tektronix fiches in a special set of filing
cabinets, and
is wondering what the hell to do with them or how much they are worth.

Craig

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

 

TO ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD IDEA:

What is your ultimate goal? I believe the answer to that question is you
want a source of replacement parts at a reasonable price. The picture is
very different when you take into account what steps are necessary before
you can sell a single part. Here are some of the critical questions you need
to consider and put a price to as I did.

I heard a RUMOR that there were several offers of somewhere between $100,000
and $500,000 and they were all turned down. Let's assume $1,000,000 will get
a better response.

There are about 6,000 active user accounts in TekScopes. We have about 4,000
ACTIVE members. Of that 4,000 assume that about half are maintaining Tek
equipment for which Deane has parts. There is no point to the other 2,000
for making a contribution if they are using more modern Tek equipment for
which Deane never had any parts.

So now if 2,000 people each contributed $500 we would reach $1,000,000 which
MIGHT get her interest. Before you can make a legitimate offer you need to
know that you are buying something that is actually worth $1,000,000. Who is
going to do a "Due Diligence" survey of the inventory in Deane's estate that
you are going to buy with your $1,000,000. This has to be done before you
make the offer. This is necessary to determine if your donors will ever be
able to recoup their investment. That is a huge job. Assume you do discover
that Deane's estate is worth the 1 million and that she accepts your offer.

Then what? This is where the rubber meets the road... Here are just a few of
the things you have to deal with next.

1) Where are you going to put all of the boxes?
2) What will the storage costs be per month? I would guess $10,000 per month
for 6,000 square feet of storage. That is >$100,000 per year. Remember you
are going to have to be able to get to each box if you want to be able to
sell the parts in them so you can't just cram boxes together. You need
aisles which are wasted space.
3) How will you catalog the contents of 10,000 boxes? Someone will have to
create a database application to do this so you will be able to locate parts
people want to buy.
4) What is a fair price for each item? This is probably the hardest question
to answer. Suppose you put a reasonable price on a part What is reasonable
to one person won't be reasonable to someone else. So how do you price the
parts? How do you deal with irate buyers expecting bargain prices for
obsolete parts?
5) Who will provide all the labor to move, organize, catalog and price all
the parts? The Forum members aren't going to do it. There are only a few in
the Beaverton area. So all of this will require you hire a temporary staff.
By my seat-of-the-pants estimate this will be something between a 1 Man-Year
effort and a 5 Man-year effort. That costs $30,000 to $150,000.
6) Assuming you come up with some magic way to do all that, what comes next?
I expect all the contributors will want something for their $500
contribution. So you will need someone to fulfil orders. That is probably a
full time job so you have a $30,000 salary to pay.
7) One more thing: How do you handle obsolescence? The parts Deane has are
for 1970s and 1980s instruments. Most of our members are now buying newer
equipment and there are no replaceable parts in these instruments. All of
Deane's inventory is decaying into obsolescence every minute.
8) At some point the "bloom will be off the rose" and the orders for parts
won't provide enough revenue to justify a person to fill the orders.
Sometime after that the "business" or whatever you call this thing better
have been saving up for the day when they will have to pay dump fees to get
rid of all this electronic equipment.

MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THIS IS IMPRACTICAL. I HOPE YOU SEE THIS EMAIL AS A
CRITICAL EVALUATION OF THE TOTAL COST OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. IN CASE IT
WASN'T CLEAR BY NOW I HAVE NO INTEREST IN PURSUING THIS MYSELF.

I AM SURE THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I
RAISE AND THE COSTS I ESTIMATED FOR SOLVING THEM. DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY
WHAT I SAID. I HAVE BEEN WRONG MOST OF MY LIFE AND I HAVE PLENTY OF LIFE
EXPERIENCES TO SUPPORT THAT OPINION. IF SOME BRAVE SOUL WHO IS MORE
OPTIMISTIC THAN ME WANTS TO ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ENTERPRISE I WISH
THEM LUCK. UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE $500 LYING AROUND TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE
CAUSE.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...]
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 11:32 PM
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: RE: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.
------------------------------------
Posted by: AncelB <mosaicmerc@...>
------------------------------------
That seems an excellent idea. If everyone on the Tekscopes list paid $10
that would raise $80k, which would go a long way to extracting the stuff and
for storage.

On another and related topic, someone I know in the UK acquired a hoard (and
is progressively putting it on eBay) that includes a complete set of many
many thousands of Tektronix fiches in a special set of filing cabinets, and
is wondering what the hell to do with them or how much they are worth.

Craig




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

John Ferguson
 

I suppose this is a bit OT, but I run a 1993 Sun SPARCstation 10 because I have an old application that won't run on anything newer and I cannot afford its current incarnation. I'd had other Sun equipment since new, but after ten years in storage I had bad cap disease and couldn't revive all of them, so bought the 10. This was in 2013. I also had a SPARCprinter 1 which still worked - the one where the image is rasterized on the computer and then sent parallel to the printer.
.
I wanted to use it as a print-server for the rest of the machines on the house network but found that the old NewsPrint (Sun's PostScript interface) wouldn't handle newer PostScript.

In 2013 I was able to find a guy online (in Belgium) who faced with same problem had installed GNU C in the Sun and then compiled Ghostprint. He showed me how. I did it, and it works. Works with MacOS, Linux, XP, but not 10, at least so far. So I went looking on the web to see if I could find anyone who had made 10 work with this setup. MS has improved (??) PPD files and lacking a binary PPD for the SPARCprinter, I guess I'm screwed.

I couldn't find anyone one who'd done it. The guys who were doing this sort of stuff in 2013 have moved on, retired, died?

At the same time, I do a lot of Arduino projects, and have no trouble getting first class help when I need it. This is almost all software stuff, though. with Arduino you string modules onto the base controller and other than soldering header-pins in holes there's little to no electronic component work.

3d printing, CNC, Model Aircraft R/C seem to have active interest on the web. I have two 2445B and a bunch of the usual 500 series plugins including a very nice 501 scope. I've been able to get good advice on them here.

I suspect we're looking at an age cohort problem. I'm 74 and have been doing stuff like this since i discovered one didn't plug his dad's old crystal set into the wall at age 8. I've got a feeling that the youngsters are more software and plug and play than we are.

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

John Griessen
 

On 05/13/2017 03:20 AM, Artek Manuals manuals@... [TekScopes] wrote:
Stefan is absolutely right. and that peak occurred as near as I can tell
about 3-4 years ago.

If the manual business is any indicator we have already lost two of the
biggest hard copy dealers ( Manuals Plus and Your Manual Source) and
Etestmanuals ( Tucker) announced (on this forum) he is pulling the
plug as well. All basically because they couldn't generate enough
revenue to cover their overhead . Our own revenue stream stopped growing
after 15 years of year over year growth about 2 years ago and I suspect
if it wasn't for the loss of the guys above the decline would even be
faster.
Dave
My batch production of extender cable kits showed a quick saturation
in 2012 and 2013 selling 160 starting from the preorders, then 60 or so in 2014
and since is at a trickle that makes it hard to do the next parts buy
because the amounts are too low, which is just another way of saying
the costs of doing business are not being repaid with enough sales.

It's a niche market based on the availability of schematics -- a semi-open hardware
style that is not done with any products today. Then there is the
trend to build boards in ways that are difficult for hobbyists to repair,
which wiped out a huge category of auto repair teen-aged hobbyists
only slightly offset by the tuners, car nuts that install custom engine computers
for racing, street racing. The other niche market change about our age group vs the next generations
is we were the last of the "free range kids", and since then there are
fewer hobbyists of all kinds I think.

The hobbyists now are the arduino and maker and steam punk enthusiasts.
Steam punk thinking would gut old scopes for their cool looking enclosures and such
and turn their parts into art assemblages. That is a tested and real thing -- I sold some
old electronics boards as art to buyers in Hong Kong and the US.

I am making kit electronics for biologists that result in some building blocks that
will sell OK to hobbyists: https://github.com/kanzure/culture_shock
that hardware can also be called programmable high voltage playground
and marketed to engineers and hobbyists and I will soon, along with
maybe some test equipment if it makes sense. Like a small sized curve tracer
with decent banana jacks probably arranged like Tek's, but displaying to a
super light weight dedicated e-paper display in black and white, and outputting
to USB serial port as compressed .png files that you name the base name of and the machine adds number suffixes.

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

If the manual business is any indicator we have already lost two of the biggest hard copy dealers
(
Manuals Plus and Your Manual Source) and Etestmanuals ( Tucker) announced (on this forum) he is
pulling the plug as well. All basically because they couldn't generate enough revenue to cover
their
overhead . Our own revenue stream stopped growing after 15 years of year over year growth about 2
years ago and I suspect if it wasn't for the loss of the guys above the decline would even be
faster.
Dave
manuals@...
What shockingly depressing news, Dave.

I often used a company at Arundel on the UK South Coast. They sold surplus test gear, and had a huge
manuals inventory that I used to buy from. They shut up shop around ten years ago (declining
business) and sold their massive stock of manuals to (wait for it) Manuals Plus. There must have
been a container load heading across the pond.

Craig

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

ArtekManuals
 

Stefan is absolutely right. and that peak occurred as near as I can tell about 3-4 years ago.

If the manual business is any indicator we have already lost two of the biggest hard copy dealers ( Manuals Plus and Your Manual Source) and Etestmanuals ( Tucker) announced (on this forum) he is pulling the plug as well. All basically because they couldn't generate enough revenue to cover their overhead . Our own revenue stream stopped growing after 15 years of year over year growth about 2 years ago and I suspect if it wasn't for the loss of the guys above the decline would even be faster.
Dave
manuals@...

On 5/13/2017 2:06 AM, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@... [TekScopes] wrote:
There is always a peak in popularity of antique items as a certain
generation gets older, and able to easily afford the items they
desired in their youth or young adulthood. They want to compensate for
what they couldn't have then, or re-live the good old times or
whatever.

I just don't see any market at all for this Tek stuff in another 30
years, but then I have been wrong before so don't listen to me.
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

ArtekManuals
 

And the cost of moving it is not trivial either


On 5/13/2017 12:22 AM, AncelB mosaicmerc@... [TekScopes] wrote:

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.

--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.
------------------------------------
Posted by: AncelB <mosaicmerc@...>
------------------------------------
That seems an excellent idea. If everyone on the Tekscopes list paid $10 that would raise $80k, which
would go a long way to extracting the stuff and for storage.

On another and related topic, someone I know in the UK acquired a hoard (and is progressively putting
it on eBay) that includes a complete set of many many thousands of Tektronix fiches in a special set
of filing cabinets, and is wondering what the hell to do with them or how much they are worth.

Craig

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

stefan_trethan
 

And that is why approaching this as a business is bound to fail.

I've said it before, the junk we hoard is a liability, not an asset.
Nobody is interested in this old crap and prepared to pay a fair price for it.

If you are considering to take on any of this, no matter if it is a
single scope from a dumpster or Deane's entire hoard, you better do it
on a "this is my hobby and it is going to cost money not earn it"
basis or you are in for a disappointment.

Don't forget most of us are old farts. None of the young people I work
with has any interest in owning an analog scope, they'd much rather
buy a new Rigol they can afford and be done with it. Old farts may
have more money, but it's not exactly smart to build a business that
relies on them. This isn't classic cars or motorcycles where you will
always have a steady stream of new seniors to replace those that
inexplicably just stop ordering your stuff.

There is always a peak in popularity of antique items as a certain
generation gets older, and able to easily afford the items they
desired in their youth or young adulthood. They want to compensate for
what they couldn't have then, or re-live the good old times or
whatever.

I just don't see any market at all for this Tek stuff in another 30
years, but then I have been wrong before so don't listen to me.


ST

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Dave Seiter d.seiter@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
But it would all be over priced- they've had some interesting items like 519s for years; but at $245 a pop, I don't think they've ever sold one.
-Dave

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

Dave Seiter
 

But it would all be over priced- they've had some interesting items like 519s for years; but at $245 a pop, I don't think they've ever sold one.
-Dave

From: "wb0emu@... [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...>
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2017 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: [TekScopes] Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

  There is one guy with the resources and the space to take on inventories like this - Bob Grinnell - dba Surplus Sales of Nebraska.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

nj902
 

There is one guy with the resources and the space to take on inventories like this - Bob Grinnell - dba Surplus Sales of Nebraska.

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

mosaicmerc
 

Maybe Dennis could run a bit of Tekscopes crowdfunding and make an offer?
I guess he'd have to have somewhere to keep it all though.

Re: Deane Kidd, was RE: Re: 575 curve tracer on UK eBay

John Griessen
 

On 05/12/2017 06:47 PM, 'Dennis Tillman' @Dennis_Tillman_W7PF [TekScopes] wrote:
Acquiring it is out of the question. Seeveral people have already tried
AFAIK. He left it to his granddaughter who has no interest in it and just
wants it gone but she won't lift a finger to move it out.
You've contradicted yourself...

Maybe the unsuccessful would be buyers did not use the right asking style?

Sounds like offering super rapid removal of a zone at a time, with the incentive that
"you get to use that space" as soon as it is moved could work.
No asking her for any of her time, no sorting, no looking in boxes,
just clear an area at a time in under 2 hours each trip. And make the point
that the savings compared to calling companies like "Got Junk?" could be in the hundreds of $$ per trip.

Not that I'm going to but... Oregon is the perfect state for it to stay in
because they have no inventory tax. The IRS still does of course, but at your declared book value, no tax assessor style valuations. Oregon has no state ad valorem tax on business product for sale inventory -- that could make a big difference in whether taking the parts would be a viable business or drive one bankrupt.

Officially owning it could get you in trouble with the EPA... hazardous materials, (or substances as the say in the EU)...