Date   

Re: Tek 465 - No B Trace visibility

 

I'll see if I can dig up
some more of my own pictures when I get home tonight to show the other end
> that's on the side of the front end drum of the A time base.
Thanks a lot, Ian. That 'll probably wake me up from my dream. Else I'll (have to) wait until next time...

Raymond


Re: Tek 465 - No B Trace visibility

Ian van der Neut
 

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 11:25 AM, hewpatek@gmail.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



There's only one way to get the glue in: from the tail end. There are
detailed pictures of its internals here:
https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?t=138253This is very strange. I
don't recognise the details as shown in that repair. I'm pretty sure I
couldn't get the axle + cylinder out like that, holding the
axle-cylinder-reardrum assembly in my hand like a shashlik stick. Either I
was being stupid or my memory plays games with me - possibly both - or
different constructions were used by Tek at different times. I can't
imagine that last thing though. I don't remember if I did my repair on a
465, 465B or 475, though I do think it was a late IBM 465.
It's about 2 years ago (or more?) when I did mine. I used to remember all
these tings pretty well but I guess it's about time to realise that's no
longer the case. I didn't take any pictures at the time..

I couldn't get the axle out either. I think it was possible for him,
because the key that retains it actually broke. I'll see if I can dig up
some more of my own pictures when I get home tonight to show the other end
that's on the side of the front end drum of the A time base.


I must admit I was surprised when Ian told me how he reached the problem
area.

Anyway, things being like in the pictures, there should be no risk for
Neil of damaging things further.

Yup.
Ian.


Re: OT: XML programming?

Dave Voorhis
 

On 14 Apr 2016, at 09:00, Richard Pope mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Dave,
I bought two books from Amazon for a couple of cents each and 3.95
in shipping on each one. This is the first one: XML for Dummies and XML
Pocket Reference (Pocket Reference (O'Reilly)). What do you think?
They’ll be fine. O’Reilly books tend to be good. The "* for Dummies” are variable; some are good and some are bad.

For most purposes, you won’t need XML editing software. Notepad, or whatever you prefer for editing text files, will be fine.


Re: OT: XML programming?

Tom Gardner
 

On 14/04/16 10:23, Richard Pope mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

So notepad would work. Is there an XML mode in VS 201x? I
appreciate the review.
I don't use Windows, so I can't comment about VS, but I would be gobsmacked if it didn't have an XML mode.

Notepad would work, and will be sufficient to view anything and edit simple documents. I suggest you quickly use it to examine an example of what's interesting to you. That will give you an idea of what you are "up against".

Two other XML concepts should help you: namespaces and schema.

Namespaces prevent naming collisions/ambuigity: <fire> can be used in the context of <person> or <weapon>, but the two shouldn't be intermixed.

Schema are themselves XML documents which define the set of possibilities of what can be in any XML document conforming to that schema. These allow tools, especially editors, to ensure that XML documents are well-formed and contain the necessary elements. That is where dedicated XML editors have advantages over plaintext editors: they can have autocompletion and validity checks. Whether it is worth it depends on the complexity of your task.

Naturally, there is an XML Schema that defines what can be in XML schemas, and any XML Schema will refer to that via namespaces.


Re: Tek 465 - No B Trace visibility

 

There's only one way to get the glue in: from the tail end. There are
> detailed pictures of its internals here:
> https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?t=138253This is very strange. I don't recognise the details as shown in that repair. I'm pretty sure I couldn't get the axle + cylinder out like that, holding the axle-cylinder-reardrum assembly in my hand like a shashlik stick. Either I was being stupid or my memory plays games with me - possibly both - or different constructions were used by Tek at different times. I can't imagine that last thing though. I don't remember if I did my repair on a 465, 465B or 475, though I do think it was a late IBM 465.
It's about 2 years ago (or more?) when I did mine. I used to remember all these tings pretty well but I guess it's about time to realise that's no longer the case. I didn't take any pictures at the time..

I must admit I was surprised when Ian told me how he reached the problem area.

Anyway, things being like in the pictures, there should be no risk for Neil of damaging things further.

Raymond


Re: OT: XML programming?

Richard R. Pope
 

Tom,
So notepad would work. Is there an XML mode in VS 201x? I
appreciate the review.
Thanks,
rich!

On 4/14/2016 4:14 AM, Tom Gardner tggzzz@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

On 14/04/16 01:36, mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

I decided to put this to the most knowledgeable group on the web.
Has anyone
done any XML programming? If so could you please recommend a good
book to help
me learn XML?
XML is a very simple idea which can be baroquely complex and is used in
arbitrarily complex ways.

XML is no more than a way of denoting the significance (I hesitate to say
"meaning") of a piece of text, so that whatever is reading the text
can figure
out what to do with it. The XML tags are no more than glorified
delimiters, to
the extent that some have claimed that XML is the triumphant
reinvention of a
subset of LISP.

Hence (sorry this forum will strip out "superfluous" spaces):
<climate>
<temp>23.6</temp>
<humidity>65</humidity>
<assessment>comfortable</assessment>
</climate>

The canonical example of an XML "program" might be:
<line>10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"</line>
<line>GOTO 10</line>
<line>RUN</line>

I suspect that your key issue will be understanding how XML is used
and abused
in AquaSuite.

Since XML is only text, you can use any text based editor - i.e. not
something
like MSWord. Many free "programming" editors have XML modes where the
syntax is
highlighted in colour. Where XML documents become baroquely complex,
there are
dedicated XML editors, e.g. from Altova. I hope you never need those!


------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: OT: XML programming?

Tom Gardner
 

On 14/04/16 01:36, mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

I decided to put this to the most knowledgeable group on the web. Has anyone done any XML programming? If so could you please recommend a good book to help me learn XML?
XML is a very simple idea which can be baroquely complex and is used in arbitrarily complex ways.

XML is no more than a way of denoting the significance (I hesitate to say "meaning") of a piece of text, so that whatever is reading the text can figure out what to do with it. The XML tags are no more than glorified delimiters, to the extent that some have claimed that XML is the triumphant reinvention of a subset of LISP.

Hence (sorry this forum will strip out "superfluous" spaces):
<climate>
<temp>23.6</temp>
<humidity>65</humidity>
<assessment>comfortable</assessment>
</climate>

The canonical example of an XML "program" might be:
<line>10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD"</line>
<line>GOTO 10</line>
<line>RUN</line>

I suspect that your key issue will be understanding how XML is used and abused in AquaSuite.

Since XML is only text, you can use any text based editor - i.e. not something like MSWord. Many free "programming" editors have XML modes where the syntax is highlighted in colour. Where XML documents become baroquely complex, there are dedicated XML editors, e.g. from Altova. I hope you never need those!


Re: TekScopes Moderator

Tom Gardner
 

On 14/04/16 09:56, Malcolm Hunter malcolm.r.hunter@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

On 14 April 2016 at 09:49, Tom Gardner tggzzz@gmail.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It is, however, prudent to consider how information can be duplicated
and/or
extracted in case the corporation "gets knocked down by a bus".
​That's why it's safer to go with the big names like Yahoo and Google. True
that none of them are guaranteed,​ but at least you know they have the
infrastructure.
Yes indeed. But even that's not a sufficient guarantee. Even big corporations turn services on and at will.

The infamous example there is MicroSoft's "PlaysForSure (TM)"[sic] service. Since they have turned off their servers you cannot move anything you bought to another device: when your machine dies or is replaced, your data is gone forever.


Re: TekScopes Moderator

Malcolm Hunter
 

On 14 April 2016 at 09:49, Tom Gardner tggzzz@gmail.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It is, however, prudent to consider how information can be duplicated
and/or
extracted in case the corporation "gets knocked down by a bus".
​That's why it's safer to go with the big names like Yahoo and Google. True
that none of them are guaranteed,​ but at least you know they have the
infrastructure.

Malcolm


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: TekScopes Moderator

Tom Gardner
 

On 14/04/16 09:39, Malcolm Hunter malcolm.r.hunter@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

What's to stop them disappearing overnight? What if they have a technical
problem, do they have resilience?
That's a valid question for any cloud service. My attitude is that cloud services are the triumphant reinvention of timesharing bureaux.

Those of us with long memories will recall the collective whoops of joy when PCs arrived. One of the main corporate reasons was that users realised that they could be in control of their own data. No longer would they be beholden to white-coated priesthood in other companies or divisions.

None of that means cloud services should be avoided, and for our purposes I think they are preferable.

It is, however, prudent to consider how information can be duplicated and/or extracted in case the corporation "gets knocked down by a bus".


Re: TekScopes Moderator

Malcolm Hunter
 

On 14 April 2016 at 09:34, 'David C. Partridge'
david.partridge@perdrix.co.uk [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

If it helps any decision process, groups.io offers an automatic transfer
service: <https://groups.io/static/yahootransfer>

Now that I've played with it for a bit, I think their online search tool
is way better than the Neo abomination.
What's to stop them disappearing overnight? What if they have a technical
problem, do they have resilience?

Malcolm


Re: TekScopes Moderator

 

If it helps any decision process, groups.io offers an automatic transfer service: <https://groups.io/static/yahootransfer>

Now that I've played with it for a bit, I think their online search tool is way better than the Neo abomination.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 13 April 2016 20:45
To: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [TekScopes] TekScopes Moderator


Hi Stefan,
I agree with you that Michael is the final authority on what should be done with the group since he started it and has been the moderator for almost its entire history. But Michael is moving on to other things. He has a full time job and a life of his own and he was finding it hard to make the necessary time to continue moderating the group.

About 2 years ago he asked if I would be willing to take over as moderator with his guidance and with him monitoring the group in the background in case I screwed up. When he asked me to do it my first thought was "Why Me?" I don't know anything about being a moderator. But after a while I realized why he selected me" It was important to havesomeone with a history on the forum (I've been a member for ~15 years), it was important to have someone who had a love for Tek (I've had that since before they made me a job offer in 1967 (which I never accepted)), and it was helpful to have a moderator who was involved in helping others wherever I could and in pushing the wonderful Tek instruments we have in new ways and using them creatively.

I was terrified at first. But by now I'm pretty confident about being the co-moderator with Michael. I rarely hear from Michael unless I come across a problem I haven't seen before.

I share everyone's concern about the Yahoo sale rumors. I will contact Michael to hear what he has to say.

In the mean time I value your contributions as a long time fellow member of the forum who can be counted on as a voice of reason that is respected by the other members.

Dennis


-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 8:09 AM
To: TekScopes <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Yahoo is up for sale, get ready for a disaster...

Yes, but considering that Michael has faithfully administered this group for, I don't know how long, and accumulated over 8000 members I feel he has a right to the name, to be his and his alone, and to do with as he pleases.

When it comes to mailgroups, I am all for benevolent dictatorship.
It's a lot of work, with no thanks, and there are some things, like closing the door for the last time, or cutting the ribbon on the new premises, that nobody else should interfere with.

Probably I am just old fashioned, or crazy, or most likely both. I know you have only good intentions and I didn't mean to offend you.

Anyway, looks like someone has already reserved lecroy_owners_group, I wouldn't be surprised if Sam was thinking ahead as well.

ST

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Tom Gardner tggzzz@gmail.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
In what way?

It is intended for this group to use, should the collective decision
be that it is the best alternative. Surely that's better than a squatter getting hold of it.



On 12/04/16 14:47, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@gmx.at [TekScopes] wrote:

I think that was a ungentlemanly thing to do.

ST

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Tom Gardner tggzzz@gmail.com
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
On 12/04/16 13:51, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@gmx.at [TekScopes] wrote:

I think you might want to reserve "TekScopes", just in case...
Too late (for https://groups.google.com/d/forum/tekscopes), I'm
pleased to
say :)

(No, I'm not going to do an "evil world-domination" cackle. Nor do
I want to administer the thing in long term)

------------------------------------
Posted by: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@gmx.at>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





------------------------------------
Posted by: "Dennis Tillman" <dennis@ridesoft.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


PG-502 blowing fuses - PS repair

Christoph
 

On a PG-502 I had here laying around and had partially repaired such that at least the pulse train and the levels were workiing - only pulse width was still defunct - suddenly
it blew the 1A fuses F600 and F670.



I measured all transistors, found a few burnt ones, replaces the "normal" ones with
BC546/BC556 and the metal case with BC 161. Still it looks like the Thyristor 2N4441
plays its role as a crowbar and closes on power up.


I will do another round and check *all* transistors, diodes, zeners etc.


I also tested the thyristor outside the board in a little testcircuit. It fired on demand
and opened as well.


This power supply seems to be a bit tricky because all voltages seems to depend on other voltages somehow.


Any expert on this modules out ther?


--
Christoph


Re: OT: XML programming?

Richard R. Pope
 

Dave,
I bought two books from Amazon for a couple of cents each and 3.95 in shipping on each one. This is the first one: XML for Dummies and XML Pocket Reference (Pocket Reference (O'Reilly)). What do you think? I also downloaded a couple of PDFs from MS.
Thanks,
rich!

On 4/14/2016 2:46 AM, Dave Voorhis voorhis@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:
On 14/04/2016 08:13, Richard Pope mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

Dave,
I'll do some searches on XML. I do prefer paper over a screen. It
is much easier for me to read and follow. I have a background in VB and
C. I understand machine language on a very limited basis.
Then you'll find XML straightforward. In and of itself, it's
conceptually simpler than programming.

It's sometimes used to represent program source code, so then its
application may be complicated, but the XML format itself is relatively
simple.

I have never
done any HTML.
Would you also get a book on HTML?
No, I wouldn't bother. If you already knew HTML, it would only be a
small step to XML.

Once you learn XML, it will only be a small step to learning HTML.

Do you have any preferences when it comes to books on XML?
No, they're all pretty much the same. I wouldn't invest much money in
one, either. Try the library.

Once you've learned XML and how AquaSuite uses it, you probably won't
refer to the XML book again.


Re: OT: XML programming?

Dave Voorhis
 

On 14/04/2016 08:13, Richard Pope mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

Dave,
I'll do some searches on XML. I do prefer paper over a screen. It
is much easier for me to read and follow. I have a background in VB and
C. I understand machine language on a very limited basis.
Then you'll find XML straightforward. In and of itself, it's conceptually simpler than programming.

It's sometimes used to represent program source code, so then its application may be complicated, but the XML format itself is relatively simple.

I have never
done any HTML.
Would you also get a book on HTML?
No, I wouldn't bother. If you already knew HTML, it would only be a small step to XML.

Once you learn XML, it will only be a small step to learning HTML.

Do you have any preferences when it comes to books on XML?
No, they're all pretty much the same. I wouldn't invest much money in one, either. Try the library.

Once you've learned XML and how AquaSuite uses it, you probably won't refer to the XML book again.


Re: Tek 465 - No B Trace visibility

Ian van der Neut
 

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:32 PM, hewpatek@gmail.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I think I'm fine living without the B trace
The (Al) central axle normally rotates a cylinder with longitudinal outer
ridges (i.e. running in parallel to the axle). Around this cylinder, the
switch drum sits. The ridges grip the switch drum, allowing the axle to
rotate the drum.
The construction allows longitudinal movement of the cylinder inside the
switch drum. This movement is spring-loaded. This is (partially) what
happens when you pull the gray time base knob.

The rather vulnerable construction sometimes starts allowing the plastic
drum to slip on the thin axle, resulting in the non-detent feeling that you
describe.
This can be fixed as follows:
After removing the axle-cylinder-drum assembly and holding it drum-down,
it is possible to apply some cyano-acrylate glue, letting it run down along
the axle, toward the axle-cylinder interface. Causing a short and slight
forced slippage allows more glue into the axle-cylinder interface. Any more
than a very slight amount of glue will allow it to spread sideways onto the
cylinder-drum interface.

This is the way I did my repair. I think that Ian applied the glue from
the opposite side, not sure. I saw my way as the easiest at the time.
There's only one way to get the glue in: from the tail end. There are
detailed pictures of its internals here:
https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?t=138253



Neil,
The worst that can happen if the glue runs too wide radially from the axle
(unless you make a real mess) is that you won't be able to pull out the
center gray knob to adjust the B time base. So, in your case it may be
worth giving it a shot.

I agree.
Ian.
--
One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null
word.
-- Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's "Time
Enough for Love"


Re: OT: XML programming?

Richard R. Pope
 

Dave,
I'll do some searches on XML. I do prefer paper over a screen. It is much easier for me to read and follow. I have a background in VB and C. I understand machine language on a very limited basis. I have never done any HTML.
Would you also get a book on HTML? If so do you have any preferences? Do you have any preferences when it comes to books on XML? As I am learning XML, I can also study the code behind the gauges that come with AquaSuite. The included gauges are rectangular and support up to 180 degree gauges. I appreciate what you have told me here. It has been a big help.
Thanks,
rich!
P.S. I will take a look at the tutorial.
rich!

On 4/14/2016 1:50 AM, Dave Voorhis voorhis@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:
On 14/04/2016 01:59, Richard Pope mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

As you can tell I don't really know anything about XML. I want to
learn how to use it and I need a good book for that. I am using a
program called AquaSuite from a company called AquaComputer. They used
XML to program the gauges and other devices that are shown on the
different pages.
XML is a text-based file format. It takes an hour or two to learn
superficially, and maybe a day to learn well. A good on-line tutorial
from W3Schools, that assumes some (but minimal) technical knowledge, is
http://www.w3schools.com/xml/default.asp

If you prefer paper, search Amazon for "XML". I recognise many of the
titles that pop up, but I wouldn't say any are better than any others.
I'd be more inclined to rely on on-line sources.

Understanding XML is easier if you've first done some Web development
using HTML and some programming in any conventional programming language.

The XML file format is often used for software configuration files and
special-purpose programming languages. That's where it becomes more
complicated, but not because XML itself is complicated, but because the
things it is used for are complicated. For those things, you'll need to
read their own documentation once you've worked through the W3Schools
tutorial I linked above.


Re: OT: XML programming?

Dave Voorhis
 

On 14/04/2016 01:59, Richard Pope mechanic_2@charter.net [TekScopes] wrote:

As you can tell I don't really know anything about XML. I want to
learn how to use it and I need a good book for that. I am using a
program called AquaSuite from a company called AquaComputer. They used
XML to program the gauges and other devices that are shown on the
different pages.
XML is a text-based file format. It takes an hour or two to learn superficially, and maybe a day to learn well. A good on-line tutorial from W3Schools, that assumes some (but minimal) technical knowledge, is http://www.w3schools.com/xml/default.asp

If you prefer paper, search Amazon for "XML". I recognise many of the titles that pop up, but I wouldn't say any are better than any others. I'd be more inclined to rely on on-line sources.

Understanding XML is easier if you've first done some Web development using HTML and some programming in any conventional programming language.

The XML file format is often used for software configuration files and special-purpose programming languages. That's where it becomes more complicated, but not because XML itself is complicated, but because the things it is used for are complicated. For those things, you'll need to read their own documentation once you've worked through the W3Schools tutorial I linked above.


New Member saying hi to the group

Joseph Polen <joepolen@...>
 

Hi I am a 69 year old retired electronics,physics.engineering,astronomy community college instructor who majored in electronic engineering and then physics in the late 1960's at Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo Ca. I "grew up" with Tektronix and HP equipment in college during an era when we studied both vacuum tubes and solid state circuits and devices. I grew to admire the lab equipment I used in college greatly and now I really enjoy owning and maintaining some of these amazing instruments. I have been known to just stare at the marvelous mechanical beauty of these instruments, learn much about the clever circuit design, dream of working for such a fine company, expectantly waiting for a Tektronix engineer to visit the campus to show us the latest product, what great days these were. I now have two buildings and six work stations devoted to my "hobby" of collecting Tektronix and HP equipment. A short list of Tektronix equipment I own follows
  1740 and 1741 Vector scopes   545A with a 1a1  plug in   Type 230 Digital Unit (I am looking for a type 568 with a serial number greater than 4000 to get it operational)   two 561 storage scopes with 2B67 's   5440 scope with 5B42's   465B scope with 3L5's   310A scope   535 with 1A2   545A   502A dual   two 516   5103N with 5B10 time base, 5A20N and 5A18N Diff amps   three 312   two 576 curve tracers    577 curve tracer   475 scope    RM33A with CA plug in  Type P plug in   RM 564 with 3A72 and 2B67 plug ins   7104 with 7A19 and  7A29, 7B10  7B15   Type 140 NTSC generator   Type 76 line voltage control   two type 130 LC meters  ( recapped and calibrated)   s30 delta standard for the type 130 delta standard   Type 184 timebase generator   Type 191     three type 321A scopes ( one never had the pins in the CRT socket soldered!)   six TDS 420A digital scopes    222a scope   two 422 scopes   314 scope    561S scope  (any one want to comment on the S meaning?)    

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: TekScopes Moderator

stefan_trethan
 

Thanks for your time, I know what is involved behind the scenes since
I've done the same for a group owner who needed some family time.

I'm happy for you (or somebody else) to run/own a new group if Michael
has other priorities.
This is why I am reluctant about the many well-meaning offers for
private hosting, life just happens sometimes.

I think it will be good to pull a copy on groups.io, no matter what
happens with yahoo. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if someone
(like Google) does buy some chunks of yahoo including the groups and
keeps them going after all, but let's not rely only on that.

ST

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 9:44 PM, 'Dennis Tillman' dennis@ridesoft.com
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Stefan,
I agree with you that Michael is the final authority on what should be done with the group since he started it and has been the moderator for almost its entire history. But Michael is moving on to other things. He has a full time job and a life of his own and he was finding it hard to make the necessary time to continue moderating the group.

About 2 years ago he asked if I would be willing to take over as moderator with his guidance and with him monitoring the group in the background in case I screwed up. When he asked me to do it my first thought was "Why Me?" I don't know anything about being a moderator. But after a while I realized why he selected me" It was important to havesomeone with a history on the forum (I've been a member for ~15 years), it was important to have someone who had a love for Tek (I've had that since before they made me a job offer in 1967 (which I never accepted)), and it was helpful to have a moderator who was involved in helping others wherever I could and in pushing the wonderful Tek instruments we have in new ways and using them creatively.

I was terrified at first. But by now I'm pretty confident about being the co-moderator with Michael. I rarely hear from Michael unless I come across a problem I haven't seen before.

I share everyone's concern about the Yahoo sale rumors. I will contact Michael to hear what he has to say.

In the mean time I value your contributions as a long time fellow member of the forum who can be counted on as a voice of reason that is respected by the other members.

Dennis

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