Date   

Re: Tek 2465 PSU test

R. Stasel
 

I believe this was the case with my fan. Some oil and pliers freed it up.

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2016, at 12:13, machine guy machineguy59@yahoo.com<mailto:machineguy59@yahoo.com> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:



The fan motor can become seized by hardened lubricant. Or there may be internal mechanical damage. Hard lubricant will prevent it from turning on its own but you should be able to turn it by hand. Mechanical damage can be about anything. There is a small "set screw" in the rear of the fan motor that is used to adjust end play of the armature. The set screw is usually accessible through a hole in the PCB directly behind and centered on the fan motor. A fine screw driver can reach it and allow you to loosen the screw to see if the motor can turn on its own. I removed the set screw on mine and dropped a couple drops of quality oil down there. A few turns and it was loose. I put the set screw back and adjusted it snug, then backed off a half turn or so. The motor started on its own after that. I let it run a while, adjusted the set screw for minimum noise, and its been fine since. I was cautioned not to put locktite on the set screw as it can migrate to the motor bearings and seize them all over again.

From: "Ryan Stasel rstasel@uoregon.edu<mailto:rstasel@uoregon.edu> [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>>
To: "TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek 2465 PSU test

Just figured out that the fan motor is completely seized. Yay, another thing to fix! :p

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2016, at 00:35, Ryan Stasel rstasel@uoregon.edu<mailto:rstasel@uoregon.edu> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Thanks!

Going by that I bit the bullet and hooked everything up. And it powered up! Except the fan. No spin.

I assume it should run all the time, or is there a temp sensor?

Lastly, I got the sticker off probably 98% with just pealing slowly. The rest I'll try some of the suggestions. :)

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On May 12, 2016, at 23:42, machine guy machineguy59@yahoo.com<mailto:machineguy59@yahoo.com><mailto:machineguy59@yahoo.com> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com><mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:



You must have a load for the PSU to operate. Its a Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS) and that technology demands a load within a certain range, a wide range, but not zero. The manual escribes the minimum load required for operation. Otherwise, the hissing you hear was the switching transistors running nearly wild.
I just hooked mine up and gave it a go. But I was meticulous in the recapping job.

From: "Ryan Stasel rstasel@uoregon.edu<mailto:rstasel@uoregon.edu><mailto:rstasel@uoregon.edu> [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com><mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>>
To: "TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com><mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com<mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com><mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 1:21 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Tek 2465 PSU test

All,

First, thanks for all the suggestions for removing the sticker. Iíll try what I can and respond back soon.

First though, I thought since I just finished up the PSU (recapping, and replacing a few resistors), I wanted to test it. I put the PSU back together, screwed it into the case, reinstalled the fan but left all the connections unplugged. Hit the power button, and it didnít blow up. But, it did make a bit of a hissing sound occasionally, and the fan did not spin.

Looking at the manual (which my grandfather, Russ, may have written at least part of), it seems I have to have the unit hooked up to test, or go out and buy/build myself some test loads. Is that the case? Anyone have tips on this? Or should I just hook things up and give it a go? Should the fan power up even when other things are disconnected, or is the whole board just not powering on because thereís no load?

Thanks much!

-Ryan Stasel

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Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

stefan_trethan
 

:-)

I will send your neighbours a few rolls of that fine yellow tape.

ST

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Peter Gottlieb hpnpilot@gmail.com
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I love electrical tape! I use it on everything and I have every color (even the
specials). I use it to wrap every cable and wire I see, even those of
neighbors, and with its great insulating properties I made my entire roof of it
(and if you cover your car in it, it makes a great theft deterrent!). If it
gets sticky, it just means you need another layer.

Peter


On 5/15/2016 4:12 PM, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@gmx.at [TekScopes] wrote:

You want to know what really gets my goat, electrical tape.
Don't you just love it when someone has tied a coil of cable or scope
probe lead with electrical tape, so you have a disgusting sticky mess
every few inches?

There should be a law against electrical tape. The factories should be
destroyed immediately and only a few boxes of 3M 33 should be kept
under armed guard in a high security vault, for use in exceptional
circumstances, like the outbreak of war.

At work we have an overabundance of this yellow polyester tape for
coil winding, and obviously it gets used where it shouldn't be. The
tape itself doesn't hold up all that well, but even after it has
fallen off the glue remains. Hardened to a dry crust and now
impervious to any solvent known to man it is the most hideous thing
you can imagine. Sometimes I feel like I have spent half my working
life removing yellow stains.

ST


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Ed Breya
 

Yes, I think Tek used 3% Ag solder as the official one for maintenance on the old scopes with ceramic strips - they included some on a tiny spool installed in every scope (look around in there - you may have some already if it hasn't been used up or removed). It does make a difference. Using regular solder deteriorates the metal bond to the strips, but so does overheating the joints or putting on too much mechanical stress. So, the Ag solders are preferred, but not essential - it's not like it has to last another 50 years in pristine condition, unless you want to keep it "original." For just getting it to work and to use it, go with whatever solder is available (except acid-core). Practicality-wise, it doesn't make sense to go through a lot of effort to get the "right" stuff, only to find that there may be more problems than time or patience to deal with them, considering that failure to fix may result in the whole thing ending up in the junk pile anyway.

Ed


Re: Suggestions for a DSO?

stefan_trethan
 

And most importantly I think there is a game called asteroids on it!

I don't know if they never had any soft options or if HP just enabled
them all for the last firmware. Keysight still adds free features to
their meters and scopes with software updates, so it could just be
that.

Your points about the lack of roll mode and slow response are spot on
for the TDS, but this HP has a monochrome display only. I do so like
to look at pretty colour pictures.

The delay timebase is really unusual on a DSO, but you know, I'm so
used to not having it I never used it on the TDS. Newer HP scopes have
segmented memory, they really need it with their small memory because
of the infinivision chipset.

ST

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:35 PM, Sigur√įur √Āsgeirsson siggi@undo.com
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
On a tangent, I just updated the firmware on my new-to-me HP 54622D. The
hard part was to scare up some way to write a floppy - I had to resurrect
an ancient ThinkPad laptop with an external floppy drive to get the job
done. That thing is so old, it was refurbished when I got it some 13 years
ago :). I'll be buying myself a USB floppy drive, if only just to make sure
the next time this happens I can read and write a floppy from one of my
current machines - *sheesh*.

In any case, updating the firmware from 1.50 to 2.31 netted me some
bugfixes, a 5 digit hardware counter, and a bunch of triggering options,
including USB - if I'm reading the release notes right. This scope seems to
predate the notion of software options. In the firmware release notes
there's a decent list of features and triggering options that were added
with subsequent firmware options at no cost to the user.

Also, in playing with this scope for all of 20 minutes, it's eating my
TDS784D's lunch every which way from Wednesday in usability.
It always grabs the full memory depth, and then just blasts all the data
that'll fit at the screen at some 300 waveforms/second without ever slowing
down. It looks like the default is to show all the 2/4MS in 10DIVs, and
only at higher sweep speeds does it water down the data in the displayed
trace. I can turn on cursors, and FFT, and measurements, and counter, and
god knows what else, it just doesn't slow'er down the least bit.
By comparison, math or long record lengths will bring my TDS truck to its
knees, to where you have SECONDS of @!$% control lag to move cursors or to
pan the trace. Looking at any signal whatsoever with the TDS always seems
to turn this protracted negotiation between acquisition mode & length
versus display speed.

The HP has a beautiful roll mode that just works. This is nice to for
looking at slow events, particularly when it's backed by fairly deep memory
that allows you to zoom after the capture. Roll mode vanished at some point
in the TDS (d)evolution, for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with
usability.

At slow sweep speeds, the HP scope also displays the captured data as it
trickles in and overwrites the old data as the sweep wraps around. My
TDS784D gives me nothing to look at until it's damn good and ready with a
full acquisition record to show. This can take a while for slow sweeps and
extended acquisition - mine goes to 8MS as it has a long memory option.

The two features I might miss from the TDS scope are the delay timebase
(the HP only really has a zoom into the 2MS acquisition record, rather than
a hardware delay) and the segmented memory mode - I guess we'll see.

I'm guessing the introduction of MegaZoom is where HPAK started eating
Tek's lunch in scopes for realz?

On Sun, 15 May 2016 at 12:13 Sigur√įur √Āsgeirsson <siggi@undo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2016 at 11:23 Paul Amaranth paul@auroragrp.com [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Siggi, I think you meant HP 54622D.
Too right - I seem to always manage to transpose the first three digits
anytime I try and type them out...


The only problem with the MSOs is that it is difficult to find them
bundled
with the logic pods for a reasonable amount of money. I have seen the pods
go for as much as the scope.
Yeah, waited patiently and eventually got lucky on one with the PODs.
However, if OP is happy with no digital channels, then buying without the
PODs, or else buying a 54622A or its relatives would be workable. "Not very
much money" seems to be on the order of $200 or so, these days: <
www.ebay.com/sch/Electrical-Test-Equipment/92074/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=2&_nkw=%28HP%2C+agilent%29+%2854622A%2C+54622D%29>.
I'll be surprised if these don't end up outlasting a Rigol by decades still
:).

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Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Daniel Koller
 


The A input is a little weird. I am pretty sure it is the specific plugin because it does not happen on other plugins. The square wave looks distorted in some way. Picture:
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn

http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn
Dirty or open VARiable v/cm pot. Try wiggling it. You can try a spray cleaner like "Deoxit Gold" on that. It could also be one of the contacts on the rotary switch, but try the pot.
It looks like a broken signal path, and all you have getting through is capacitive coupling, which effectively functions as a differentiator. You're seeing the derivative of the square wave input signal. should be simple enough to trace.
Dan


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Daniel Koller
 

Hi Alex,
  It looks to me like you have a stable, if skewed sweep, and the vertical works.  I also looks like one half of the differential amplifier driving the horizontal plates of the CRT is out.  That narrows it down to V634, V684 and V398, and hopefully it is NOT connections inside the CRT.  I would do some probing of the DC voltages with a voltmeter.  Set it up as per the blue text in the manual and start tracing left to right across the schematic, comparing voltages.  
C380 at the grid of V384 is the only electrolytic in the circuit, and I would first give that a visual inspection.  I might be tempted to unsolder one end and measure it.  Do you have a capacitance meter?
Good luck, I'm done for the evening.  Dan

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 10:35 PM, "alex_brinister@yahoo.com [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



  Hi Dan,

Okay, here is the picture of the vertical deflection using the B input. The vertical is set to 1 V/cm. The time is set to 0.5 s/cm.
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq


http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq
Preview by Yahoo




The A timebase does not work at all. There is no sweep or anything when using the A timebase. That is the other issue with this scope. It was elected to try to fix the horizontal amplifier issue first.


The A input is a little weird. I am pretty sure it is the specific plugin because it does not happen on other plugins. The square wave looks distorted in some way. Picture:
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn

http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn
Preview by Yahoo





Okay, I will look into researching a good brand of 3% solder. I think I saw some strips of it on eBay but I wasn't sure about them.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister



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Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Alex Brinister
 

Hi Dan,

Okay, here is the picture of the vertical deflection using the B input. The vertical is set to 1 V/cm. The time is set to 0.5 s/cm.
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq


http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/iRwi4Xq
Preview by Yahoo




The A timebase does not work at all. There is no sweep or anything when using the A timebase. That is the other issue with this scope. It was elected to try to fix the horizontal amplifier issue first.


The A input is a little weird. I am pretty sure it is the specific plugin because it does not happen on other plugins. The square wave looks distorted in some way. Picture:
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn

http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/Axg5dZn
Preview by Yahoo





Okay, I will look into researching a good brand of 3% solder. I think I saw some strips of it on eBay but I wasn't sure about them.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister


Re: 585A Not Powering On

Daniel Koller
 

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 6:23 PM, "Daniel Koller kaboomdk@yahoo.com [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

After I tested the supplies and adjusted the -150 V, I tried to change the stability control on both A and B timebases. On A, when the control was turned (no matter which direction), the dot in the middle would flicker very brightly. On B, the dot was brighter to begin with but did not do the same flickering. I'm keeping the sensitivity down to prevent damage.

I just re-read this now. I think you are describing what I mentioned before. The sweeps are working, and the intensities are modulating the beam, but the horizontal signal is just not getting to the CRT. Slow the sweep down to 1cm/sec and it should take about 10 seconds to go through a cycle. 0.1 cm/sec and it should blink once per second. It will depend on whether you select "A runs after B" or "B intensified by A".... Try A sweep at .1 cm/sec and B at 1cm/sec, "A intensified by B"... the trace should be on but dim for ~10 sec and bright for 0.1 sec at a "position" in the sweep determined by the delay time multiplier... admittedly, this will be hard to set up without being able to see the sweeps across the screen, but it will confirm the operation of the triggering and sweep settings by watching the intensity. Better if you can trace the issue with the horizontal amp.

Dan


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Daniel Koller
 

It appears you have a sweep, and the settings all look reasonable at first glance.  Maybe switch to 1V/cm on the vertical scales, 1V on the calibrator, 1mS/cm on the sweeps so we're on the same page.  Note that right down the middle column, all the red knobs are pots, that could get dirty or open up.  you might wiggle then to see if the scope responds by just moving the wiper on these a bit.  They are probably ok, but just assume that they could be dirty and the potentiometers can open up.  
Also, to force a sweep, move the stability knobs from their pre-set positions to fully clockwise.
But I can see that the horizontal sweep is pegged - the dot of the black knob should be roughly in the 12 o'clock position and it's not visible.  Yes, the horizontal has an issue. 
 How about connecting the calibrator to the vertical?  Do you get any vertical deflection?  
 Slow the sweeps down to 1sec/cm.  Do the A and B sweeps behave identically? 
 Dan

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 9:50 PM, "alex_brinister@yahoo.com [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



  Hi Dan,

I checked the CRT leads, they all seem to connected. Here is a picture. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2

http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2 Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2
Preview by Yahoo




Here is a picture of the entire faceplate. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh

http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh
Preview by Yahoo




Based on the stickers on the cart, this scope once belonged to DJ Instruments in North Billerica, MA and AST/Servo Systems, Inc. also in North Billerica. I don't know if this means something in terms of the serial number.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

 

The silver content only matters insofar as it prevents the silver
deposited on the ceramic terminal strip from dissolving. You can get
away with using normal tin and lead solder but if you do extensive
rework, silver bearing solder should be used to prevent this problem.

Common silver solder for electronics is Sn62Pb36Ag2 and is the most
common and least expensive. 4% silver bearing can be found online;
apparently it finds a market with audiophiles. I believe Tektronix
used 3% silver.

Oatey brand Safe Flo silver lead free solder is for plumbing and I
suspect it will be worse for dissolving silver because of its tin to
silver ratio.

On 15 May 2016 18:11:52 -0700, you wrote:

Dan,

I looked up a whitepaper on the solder I have. It specifies 1-5% silver content. Is this okay? I've read that the silver content is the most important part and 1-5% seems fairly close to 3%. But I'm not sure how exact this has to be.

Alex Brinister


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Alex Brinister
 

Hi Dan,

I checked the CRT leads, they all seem to connected. Here is a picture. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2

http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2 Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/a/lJEn2
Preview by Yahoo




Here is a picture of the entire faceplate. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh

http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/SBq4gVh
Preview by Yahoo




Based on the stickers on the cart, this scope once belonged to DJ Instruments in North Billerica, MA and AST/Servo Systems, Inc. also in North Billerica. I don't know if this means something in terms of the serial number.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Alex Brinister
 

Dan,

I looked up a whitepaper on the solder I have. It specifies 1-5% silver content. Is this okay? I've read that the silver content is the most important part and 1-5% seems fairly close to 3%. But I'm not sure how exact this has to be.


Alex Brinister


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Daniel Koller
 

Hi Jerry,
   Interesting point.  The serial number is 29999.  But why do you suspect that?  Were there certain special tubes made for custom units?
  Alex, could the tube have been set up for direct CRT access (see the plexiglass acess port on the side panel)?  Are the four X and Y leads connected?
  Dan

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:00 PM, "Jerry Massengale jmassen418@gmail.com [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



  fancy sn, open crt lead

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, alex_brinister@yahoo.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi all,

I have been at school and have only just now had the opportunity to get
back to the 545.


Dan, I checked all supplies again. These are the measurements I found:


-150 -> -150 V
100 -> 95 V
225 -> 226 V
350 -> 350 V
500 -> 499 V


I put the horizontal display in External Sweep mode. There is a dot on the
screen and it does respond to the 5x magnification. However, the sweep does
not move past the mid point of the screen. Imgur: The most awesome images
on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM
Preview by Yahoo




Tubes: I do have another 545A that is definitely out of service (something
sparked and caught on fire earlier). I can use tubes from there if need be.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Jerry Massengale <jmassen418@...>
 

fancy sn, open crt lead

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 4:18 PM, alex_brinister@yahoo.com [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi all,

I have been at school and have only just now had the opportunity to get
back to the 545.


Dan, I checked all supplies again. These are the measurements I found:


-150 -> -150 V
100 -> 95 V
225 -> 226 V
350 -> 350 V
500 -> 499 V


I put the horizontal display in External Sweep mode. There is a dot on the
screen and it does respond to the 5x magnification. However, the sweep does
not move past the mid point of the screen. Imgur: The most awesome images
on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM
Preview by Yahoo




Tubes: I do have another 545A that is definitely out of service (something
sparked and caught on fire earlier). I can use tubes from there if need be.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

Dave Daniel
 

Colored electrical tape is what rock climbers use to identify their
gear. My "colors" were green over yellow. When I used to lead rock
climbs, at the end of the climb when we were back on the ground, we'd
end up with a mass of carabiners, chocks and cams all mixed up on
multiple slings. The only way one could tell one Black Diamond cam from
another identical one was by the colors of the electrical tape wrappings.

I still use blue, black and red electrical tape for identifying left and
right channels on my audio system speaker wires (blue == left speaker,
red == right speaker) and individual feeds (red == positive, black ==
negative).

For applications involving electricity of any form other than marking
audio cables, I use colored heat-shrink tubing.

DaveD


On 5/15/2016 3:17 PM, Peter Gottlieb hpnpilot@gmail.com [TekScopes] wrote:

I love electrical tape! I use it on everything and I have every color
(even the
specials). I use it to wrap every cable and wire I see, even those of
neighbors, and with its great insulating properties I made my entire
roof of it
(and if you cover your car in it, it makes a great theft deterrent!).
If it
gets sticky, it just means you need another layer.

Peter

On 5/15/2016 4:12 PM, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@gmx.at [TekScopes]
wrote:

You want to know what really gets my goat, electrical tape.
Don't you just love it when someone has tied a coil of cable or scope
probe lead with electrical tape, so you have a disgusting sticky mess
every few inches?

There should be a law against electrical tape. The factories should be
destroyed immediately and only a few boxes of 3M 33 should be kept
under armed guard in a high security vault, for use in exceptional
circumstances, like the outbreak of war.

At work we have an overabundance of this yellow polyester tape for
coil winding, and obviously it gets used where it shouldn't be. The
tape itself doesn't hold up all that well, but even after it has
fallen off the glue remains. Hardened to a dry crust and now
impervious to any solvent known to man it is the most hideous thing
you can imagine. Sometimes I feel like I have spent half my working
life removing yellow stains.

ST

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 8:15 PM, jonbatters32@gmail.com [TekScopes]
I write because the sticky-labels have always driven me
crazy…..and have
been unable to come up with a fix….until NOW ! !

Jon Batters, Grants Pass, Or.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Daniel Koller
 

Hmmm... Similar to the 585 - eminently fixable.  Maybe we should work on this scope first, as it's just  a little bit simpler, and use it to diagnose the other..... or both in parallel and then pick the most likely path to a working scope.
 Also, can you post a picture of the whole faceplate, so we can check your controls?
and I think the silver solder is 3% silver.  I don't know about lead free solder, and I would be wary about trying it unless someone in the group has direct experience with it.  if it melts at a higher temperature than the 3% silver you probably don't want to use it as heat is a contributing factor to pulling the metalization off the ceramic terminals.  You'll need to solder with care.
Dan

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 5:18 PM, "alex_brinister@yahoo.com [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



  Hi all,

I have been at school and have only just now had the opportunity to get back to the 545.


Dan, I checked all supplies again. These are the measurements I found:


-150 -> -150 V
100 -> 95 V
225 -> 226 V
350 -> 350 V
500 -> 499 V


I put the horizontal display in External Sweep mode. There is a dot on the screen and it does respond to the 5x magnification. However, the sweep does not move past the mid point of the screen. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM
Preview by Yahoo




Tubes: I do have another 545A that is definitely out of service (something sparked and caught on fire earlier). I can use tubes from there if need be.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 585A Not Powering On

Daniel Koller
 

Hi Alex,
  Excellent!  You have a trace on the screen and all the power supply voltages are correct.  This is an eminently fixable scope.  I don't think there is any "unobtanium"  in the circuitry between what you know works and what needs to be made to work.   One not so obvious question comes to mind:  Are all the tubes there?  Do you have any missing in the vertical or horizontal drivers?
  Ok, so, does the spot respond to either the vertical or horizontal position controls?  Split the analysis into the vertical and horizontal systems and deal with them separately from this point.
Vertical: if no response from the vertical position, something is clearly wrong in the vertical chain.  It's already an indication that there is something wrong because the position light does not agree with the position.... aha.   In the 585, V1084/1094 and 1083A,B/1093A,B pick off the vertical and amplify it for the trigger circuits, and the indicator lamps are a bit "removed" from the actual signal levels in the path.  So you could find there is a vertical signal and the lamps don't respond if  the trigger pick-off circuits have faults.  
  Check the calibrator output on a voltmeter.  See if it is putting something out. (there's a calibrator test point where you can check the 100V DC fed to the calibrator, but you'll need another scope to fully confirm it's a square wave output).  Then feed that signal to the vertical.  There should be a corresponding deflection.  If no deflection and no change in the neons, you've got a problem in the first half of the vertical amp.  If there's a deflection in the vertical but the neon position indicators don't respond, you've got a problem in the trigger pick-off circuit.  If the neons respond, but still no vertical displacement on the screen, problem is in the second half of the vertical amp.  You'll need some spare 6DJ8's - can pull some from the fried 545.
  Do a visual inspection of the tubes in the light and the dark.  Note which if any have dull getters.  Check for the purple glow of a gassy tube.  Temporarily swap out any obvious bad ones to see if you can find the problem that way, BUT be careful about swapping tubes.  The scope may work just fine with a marginal tube and for that matter may have been calibrated with that tube, so you really only want to swap out truly failed tubes.  Think first, swap later, and mark the ones you pull out to be able to put them back in the same sockets.  
  AH - one thing I should have mentioned, it's not a bad Idea to carefully pull out every tube and gently re-seat them, to break any crud or oxide off the pins, built up over years on non-use.  Gently dust them, but be careful not to wipe off markings, which may be fairy dust at this point.  
  This scope has fuses feeding the delay lines that feed the distributed amplifiers.  Check those.  That may be a likely failure point.  (The 545 does not have these fuses, so you want to be careful not to short anything while live-testing the vertical amplifier or you can do some serious damage.  I don't know about the 545A). 
  Let's see what you can get on the vertical, but the horizontal will be the same procedure.  Check the position control.  Check the leads to the CRT.  If you can get any motion, try feeding an external signal to see if you can get a deflection, e.g. from the calibrator.  If the horizontal amp is shown to be working, the problem is with the sweep or trigger circuits.   Knowing how the sweep works (e.g. trigger, sweep, blank-off, retrace and wait) you might even be able to analyze whether or not the trigger/sweep circuits are partly working by adjusting the settings and watching the brightness of the stationary point on the screen.  Read up on the horizontal systems in the manual.
  But, see what you can do with the vertical.   The 545 is all similar, but somewhat simpler design.  e.g. in the 545a there is only a single 12AU7 tube between the neon position indicators and the vertical signal path.... and there is a fuse.  
Good luck and I'll check in later.
  Dan

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 4:46 PM, "alex_brinister@yahoo.com [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



  Hi Dan,

I checked the voltages of the supplies. Initially they were pretty low.


500 V -> 457 V
350 V -> 325 V
225 V -> 199 V
100 V -> 81 V
-150 V -> -112 V


I adjusted the -150 first and that seemed to even the rest out. Now they measure:


500 -> 505 V
350 -> 353 V
225 -> 226 V
100 -> 101 V
-150 -> -150 V


However, something has changed with the sweep lights and the sweep itself. The only light on now is the left vertical light (pointing up). Also, the sweep is now a dot in the middle of the CRT. Before, if the intensity was turned all the way up, there was a square to the side and some scattering. Here is a picture from before: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/a/HeOFR

http://imgur.com/a/HeOFR

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/a/HeOFR Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/a/HeOFR
Preview by Yahoo




After I tested the supplies and adjusted the -150 V, I tried to change the stability control on both A and B timebases. On A, when the control was turned (no matter which direction), the dot in the middle would flicker very brightly. On B, the dot was brighter to begin with but did not do the same flickering. I'm keeping the sensitivity down to prevent damage.


About silver solder: I have this roll of silver solder but I'm not sure of the percentage of silver in it. It's Oatey brand Safe Flo silver lead free solder.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister

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Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

ken chalfant
 

Oh that’s funny - but twisted.

I do like the way you help out your neighbors - that’s darn nice of you.

I have seen some vehicles on the road which have employed the multilayer tape approach - at least to help hold on side mirrors and body panels.

LOL - Ken


On 15May, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Peter Gottlieb hpnpilot@gmail.com [TekScopes] <TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I love electrical tape! I use it on everything and I have every color (even the
specials). I use it to wrap every cable and wire I see, even those of
neighbors, and with its great insulating properties I made my entire roof of it
(and if you cover your car in it, it makes a great theft deterrent!). If it
gets sticky, it just means you need another layer.

Peter

On 5/15/2016 4:12 PM, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@gmx.at <mailto:stefan_trethan@gmx.at> [TekScopes] wrote:Posted by: Peter Gottlieb <hpnpilot@gmail.com <mailto:hpnpilot@gmail.com>>

Reply via web post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TekScopes/conversations/messages/129175;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZzcwbTh1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIxOTEyNDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNjYzBG1zZ0lkAzEyOTE3NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NjMzNDcwNDY-?act=reply&messageNum=129175> ‚ÄĘ Reply to sender¬† <mailto:hpnpilot@gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BTekScopes%5D%20Removing%20sticker%20residue%20from%202465%20screen%20cover> ‚ÄĘ Reply to group¬† <mailto:TekScopes@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BTekScopes%5D%20Removing%20sticker%20residue%20from%202465%20screen%20cover> ‚ÄĘ Start a New Topic <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TekScopes/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJldTI3ZHAzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIxOTEyNDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNjYzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ2MzM0NzA0Ng--> ‚ÄĘ Messages in this topic <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TekScopes/conversations/topics/129040;_ylc=X3oDMTM4aThrZGdmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIxOTEyNDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgzNjYzBG1zZ0lkAzEyOTE3NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NjMzNDcwNDYEdHBjSWQDMTI5MDQw> (44)
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Re: Suggestions for a DSO?

Siggi
 

On a tangent, I just updated the firmware on my new-to-me HP 54622D. The
hard part was to scare up some way to write a floppy - I had to resurrect
an ancient ThinkPad laptop with an external floppy drive to get the job
done. That thing is so old, it was refurbished when I got it some 13 years
ago :). I'll be buying myself a USB floppy drive, if only just to make sure
the next time this happens I can read and write a floppy from one of my
current machines - *sheesh*.

In any case, updating the firmware from 1.50 to 2.31 netted me some
bugfixes, a 5 digit hardware counter, and a bunch of triggering options,
including USB - if I'm reading the release notes right. This scope seems to
predate the notion of software options. In the firmware release notes
there's a decent list of features and triggering options that were added
with subsequent firmware options at no cost to the user.

Also, in playing with this scope for all of 20 minutes, it's eating my
TDS784D's lunch every which way from Wednesday in usability.
It always grabs the full memory depth, and then just blasts all the data
that'll fit at the screen at some 300 waveforms/second without ever slowing
down. It looks like the default is to show all the 2/4MS in 10DIVs, and
only at higher sweep speeds does it water down the data in the displayed
trace. I can turn on cursors, and FFT, and measurements, and counter, and
god knows what else, it just doesn't slow'er down the least bit.
By comparison, math or long record lengths will bring my TDS truck to its
knees, to where you have SECONDS of @!$% control lag to move cursors or to
pan the trace. Looking at any signal whatsoever with the TDS always seems
to turn this protracted negotiation between acquisition mode & length
versus display speed.

The HP has a beautiful roll mode that just works. This is nice to for
looking at slow events, particularly when it's backed by fairly deep memory
that allows you to zoom after the capture. Roll mode vanished at some point
in the TDS (d)evolution, for reasons that clearly have nothing to do with
usability.

At slow sweep speeds, the HP scope also displays the captured data as it
trickles in and overwrites the old data as the sweep wraps around. My
TDS784D gives me nothing to look at until it's damn good and ready with a
full acquisition record to show. This can take a while for slow sweeps and
extended acquisition - mine goes to 8MS as it has a long memory option.

The two features I might miss from the TDS scope are the delay timebase
(the HP only really has a zoom into the 2MS acquisition record, rather than
a hardware delay) and the segmented memory mode - I guess we'll see.

I'm guessing the introduction of MegaZoom is where HPAK started eating
Tek's lunch in scopes for realz?

On Sun, 15 May 2016 at 12:13 Sigur√įur √Āsgeirsson <siggi@undo.com> wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2016 at 11:23 Paul Amaranth paul@auroragrp.com [TekScopes]
<TekScopes@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Siggi, I think you meant HP 54622D.
Too right - I seem to always manage to transpose the first three digits
anytime I try and type them out...


The only problem with the MSOs is that it is difficult to find them
bundled
with the logic pods for a reasonable amount of money. I have seen the pods
go for as much as the scope.
Yeah, waited patiently and eventually got lucky on one with the PODs.
However, if OP is happy with no digital channels, then buying without the
PODs, or else buying a 54622A or its relatives would be workable. "Not very
much money" seems to be on the order of $200 or so, these days: <
www.ebay.com/sch/Electrical-Test-Equipment/92074/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=2&_nkw=%28HP%2C+agilent%29+%2854622A%2C+54622D%29>.
I'll be surprised if these don't end up outlasting a Rigol by decades still
:).


Re: Timebase and CRT Issues on Tektronix Type 545A

Alex Brinister
 

Hi all,

I have been at school and have only just now had the opportunity to get back to the 545.


Dan, I checked all supplies again. These are the measurements I found:


-150 -> -150 V
100 -> 95 V
225 -> 226 V
350 -> 350 V
500 -> 499 V


I put the horizontal display in External Sweep mode. There is a dot on the screen and it does respond to the 5x magnification. However, the sweep does not move past the mid point of the screen. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.



View on imgur.com http://imgur.com/iJvXHsM
Preview by Yahoo




Tubes: I do have another 545A that is definitely out of service (something sparked and caught on fire earlier). I can use tubes from there if need be.


Thanks,
Alex Brinister

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