Date   

Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

R. Stasel
 

And it won't damage the plastic? I worry about using solvents, heptane being a pretty decent one... :/ would certainly help if we knew what plastic the parts were. :(

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2016, at 12:18, David DiGiacomo telists@...<mailto:telists@...> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:



On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Keith Smith <kahsmith@...<mailto:kahsmith@...>> wrote:
I've had great success with lemon oil (furniture polish), butter, peanut
butter; almost anything with fatty oils in it. Let it sit for a while and
wipe off.
But then you have to clean the oil off your plastic :(

Not to be judgmental, but WD-40, lemon cleaner, oil, alcohol are all
the wrong answer.

Bestine Thinner (aka heptane) is the right chemical for the job. It
works well and doesn't leave a residue. Everything else mentioned is
far inferior.


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

bonddaleena@...
 

Thank you David!!!

ron

-----Original Message-----
From: David DiGiacomo telists@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
Cc: TekScopes <TekScopes@...>
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2016 3:54 pm
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover






On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:38 PM, <bonddaleena@...> wrote:
David, I certainly believe in your wisdom concerning these things.
Where would a person get this chemical? Does it have a trade name?
The trade name is Bestine Thinner.

You can buy it from art supply stores (e.g. Aaron Bros or Flax), or by mail.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0027AEEFI

You can also look for "undo Label Remover", which is the same thing,
but more expensive.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

David DiGiacomo
 

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:38 PM, <bonddaleena@...> wrote:
David, I certainly believe in your wisdom concerning these things.
Where would a person get this chemical? Does it have a trade name?
The trade name is Bestine Thinner.

You can buy it from art supply stores (e.g. Aaron Bros or Flax), or by mail.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0027AEEFI

You can also look for "undo Label Remover", which is the same thing,
but more expensive.


Re: For Sale Items OK ?

Jerry Massengale <jmassen418@...>
 

occasional sales are okay


On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:48 PM, Richard Solomon dickw1ksz@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



Is it OK to list an item (7904A) for
sale ?

Tnx, Dick, W1KSZ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

bonddaleena@...
 

David, I certainly believe in your wisdom concerning these things.
Where would a person get this chemical? Does it have a trade name?

tnx
ron
N4UE

-----Original Message-----
From: David DiGiacomo telists@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...>
Cc: TekScopes <TekScopes@...>
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2016 3:18 pm
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover






On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Keith Smith <kahsmith@...> wrote:
I've had great success with lemon oil (furniture polish), butter, peanut
butter; almost anything with fatty oils in it. Let it sit for a while and
wipe off.
But then you have to clean the oil off your plastic :(

Not to be judgmental, but WD-40, lemon cleaner, oil, alcohol are all
the wrong answer.

Bestine Thinner (aka heptane) is the right chemical for the job. It
works well and doesn't leave a residue. Everything else mentioned is
far inferior.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

David DiGiacomo
 

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Keith Smith <kahsmith@...> wrote:
I've had great success with lemon oil (furniture polish), butter, peanut
butter; almost anything with fatty oils in it. Let it sit for a while and
wipe off.
But then you have to clean the oil off your plastic :(

Not to be judgmental, but WD-40, lemon cleaner, oil, alcohol are all
the wrong answer.

Bestine Thinner (aka heptane) is the right chemical for the job. It
works well and doesn't leave a residue. Everything else mentioned is
far inferior.


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

Keith Smith
 

I've had great success with lemon oil (furniture polish), butter, peanut
butter; almost anything with fatty oils in it. Let it sit for a while and
wipe off.
Test on an edge first.
k

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 6:51 AM, George Onufer amatec@... [TekScopes] <
TekScopes@...> wrote:



Exactly.I tried everything out there before I found that any penetrating
oil such as WD-40 or even better, PB Blaster, works to dissolve the glue
and turn it into a gel that can be wiped away. There is, believe it or
not, a brand called "Knock 'er Loose". Just don't let your wife see it. I
have never found them to damage any type of plastic. Get them anywhere,
even Walwart. There is an oily residue left, but you can easily clean that
off with a solution of a dish soap like Dawn. Mineral spirits (not the
paint thinner stuff) are the go-to solution for industrial cleaning. This
is what I use on cabinets, covers and front panels.

George

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


For Sale Items OK ?

Richard Solomon <dickw1ksz@...>
 

Is it OK to list an item (7904A) for
sale ?

Tnx, Dick, W1KSZ


Re: Newbie to the group...

 

On Fri, 13 May 2016 12:30:43 +0200, you wrote:

Hello,

With experience and schematics a lot of the repair work can be done without
having to apply power.

Would people here say that using 1:10 probes and subtracting one channel
from another (differential probing, no ground reference on the probing
scope) is an acceptable alternative to using an isolation transformer?

Paul
The common mode voltages are high enough that I doubt this would work
except in the inverter part of the circuit; Sensitivity would be
limited to 50 V/div


Re: AM503 Amplifier Bad

dnmeeks
 

Jerry -

I would certainly go around U370 and measure the dc voltages and compare to
service manual. It looks like the give voltages for most of the pins.

What about pins 1 and 13, the inputs to U370? If those are bad I'd go back
to the previous stage U350.

And the dc voltage from that JFET stage, coming from R236 and Q230B, should
be zero volts.

Dan


Re: Removing sticker residue from 2465 screen cover

George Onufer
 

Exactly.I tried everything out there before I found that any penetrating oil such as WD-40 or even better, PB Blaster, works to dissolve the glue and turn it into a gel that can be wiped away.  There is, believe it or not, a brand called "Knock 'er Loose".  Just don't let your wife see it.  I have never found them to damage any type of plastic.  Get them anywhere, even Walwart.  There is an oily residue left, but you can easily clean that off with a solution of a dish soap like Dawn.  Mineral spirits (not the paint thinner stuff) are the go-to solution for industrial cleaning.  This is what I use on cabinets, covers and front panels.

George


Re: Tek 2465 PSU test

Jerry Massengale <jmassen418@...>
 

Ryan,

Make sure you have the correct 110/220 connection. I am not sure what you
mean by unloaded. At the very least connect a 2 ohm or smaller resistance
from +5VD to ground. There is a schematic of my ml24xx load in the
archives. I recommend you build something like that for yourself if you
intend to maintain your 2465.

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Ryan Stasel rstasel@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:



All,

First, thanks for all the suggestions for removing the sticker. I’ll try
what I can and respond back soon.

First though, I thought since I just finished up the PSU (recapping, and
replacing a few resistors), I wanted to test it. I put the PSU back
together, screwed it into the case, reinstalled the fan but left all the
connections unplugged. Hit the power button, and it didn’t blow up. But, it
did make a bit of a hissing sound occasionally, and the fan did not spin.

Looking at the manual (which my grandfather, Russ, may have written at
least part of), it seems I have to have the unit hooked up to test, or go
out and buy/build myself some test loads. Is that the case? Anyone have
tips on this? Or should I just hook things up and give it a go? Should the
fan power up even when other things are disconnected, or is the whole board
just not powering on because there’s no load?

Thanks much!

-Ryan Stasel




Re: How much ESR is too much?

Stuart Brorson <sdb@...>
 

Define big.

On my boards, Cap sizes start from 0603 and go up from there.
Sometimes 0402 when hit with a space crunch. It's
true, I don't do cell phones, so no 0201 or 01005 parts.

I haven't looked at the innards of modern Tek stuff, but a lot of the
older Tek stuff of interest to this group uses large parts -- even
through-hole parts -- which can be derated using a 2x or 3x rule.

Perhaps not the big, honking electrolytic caps on the power supplies?
What derating does Tek use for the electrolytics?

Stuart

On Fri, 13 May 2016, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@... [TekScopes] wrote:

You must make big things only.

ST

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Stuart Brorson sdb@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
I checked a 10u 25V 1206 X7R cap, where the datasheet says -20% at
rated voltage, and it only measured 2.5uF at 25V.
That's an interesting measurement result, and is a cautionary tale
about using a cap at or close to its rated voltage.

When designing, I typically use a 3x derating for caps (or at least 2x
if 3x is not possible). That is, if my cap needs to stand off 5V,
then I select a cap with 16V rating. If my cap needs to stand off
15V, then I select 50V, etc. I would never use a cap rated at 16V to
stand off 15V.

I believe this derating figure originally came from a NASA
requirements document, but I don't have the document number in front
of me now.

I suppose one could use different deratings for different cap
technologies (i.e. ceramic vs. Tantalum vs. polystyrene), but using a
blanket 3x for all caps keeps my life simple.

Stuart



On Fri, 13 May 2016, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@... [TekScopes] wrote:

The HP bridge can do DC bias, at least up to 35V.
I checked a 10u 25V 1206 X7R cap, where the datasheet says -20% at
rated voltage, and it only measured 2.5uF at 25V. I'm not absolutely
positive I have the correct type for the datasheet but will check
again in the future when I order new ones.

The 50% voltage derating mentioned before certainly seems called for
to get any reasonable capacitance out of those high capacity ones.
Goes to show if you push a technology too far it the drawbacks aren't
always worth it. I mean what good is a cap that's -80% at nominal
voltage? I sure wouldn't be brave enough to sell that.

ST

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:19 AM, David @DWH
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
X7R just specifies the operating temperature range and tolerance.
Different ceramics may be used. Usually physically smaller ceramic
capacitors have a worse voltage coefficient of capacitance.

It would be nice to have a capacitance meter which measures
capacitance at different DC bias voltages.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:25:15 +0200, you wrote:

This specification seems to vary wildly for X7R.
I have seen some sources suggest as much as -80% while other sources
(AVX, Vishay) seem to suggest 10-20% at most.

Why?

ST

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Posted by: David <@DWH>
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Yahoo Groups Links



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Posted by: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links




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Posted by: Stuart Brorson <sdb@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links



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Posted by: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links




Re: TDS display movement...............

 

Hello All,

Thank you for the reply. I am not near my lab now and will check the power supplies when I return.


I will keep you informed as to how it is going.


Cheers,


David


Re: Reliable source for 2.5mm probe hooks?

Dale H. Cook
 

At 07:11 PM 5/12/2016, Bill Sudbrink wrote:

Does anyone know where you can buy a couple and know you'll get the right ones?
In my region there is a vendor who sells, among other things, used instrumentation. He is at almost every hamfest in the region, and he always has a box of used probe hooks. I take the probe with me when I go to the hamfest to make sure that I get a hook that fits the probe.

Dale H. Cook, GR / HP Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html


Re: How much ESR is too much?

stefan_trethan
 

You must make big things only.

ST

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Stuart Brorson sdb@...
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
I checked a 10u 25V 1206 X7R cap, where the datasheet says -20% at
rated voltage, and it only measured 2.5uF at 25V.
That's an interesting measurement result, and is a cautionary tale
about using a cap at or close to its rated voltage.

When designing, I typically use a 3x derating for caps (or at least 2x
if 3x is not possible). That is, if my cap needs to stand off 5V,
then I select a cap with 16V rating. If my cap needs to stand off
15V, then I select 50V, etc. I would never use a cap rated at 16V to
stand off 15V.

I believe this derating figure originally came from a NASA
requirements document, but I don't have the document number in front
of me now.

I suppose one could use different deratings for different cap
technologies (i.e. ceramic vs. Tantalum vs. polystyrene), but using a
blanket 3x for all caps keeps my life simple.

Stuart



On Fri, 13 May 2016, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@... [TekScopes] wrote:

The HP bridge can do DC bias, at least up to 35V.
I checked a 10u 25V 1206 X7R cap, where the datasheet says -20% at
rated voltage, and it only measured 2.5uF at 25V. I'm not absolutely
positive I have the correct type for the datasheet but will check
again in the future when I order new ones.

The 50% voltage derating mentioned before certainly seems called for
to get any reasonable capacitance out of those high capacity ones.
Goes to show if you push a technology too far it the drawbacks aren't
always worth it. I mean what good is a cap that's -80% at nominal
voltage? I sure wouldn't be brave enough to sell that.

ST

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:19 AM, David @DWH
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
X7R just specifies the operating temperature range and tolerance.
Different ceramics may be used. Usually physically smaller ceramic
capacitors have a worse voltage coefficient of capacitance.

It would be nice to have a capacitance meter which measures
capacitance at different DC bias voltages.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:25:15 +0200, you wrote:

This specification seems to vary wildly for X7R.
I have seen some sources suggest as much as -80% while other sources
(AVX, Vishay) seem to suggest 10-20% at most.

Why?

ST

------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



------------------------------------
Posted by: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links




------------------------------------
Posted by: Stuart Brorson <sdb@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Re: How much ESR is too much?

Stuart Brorson <sdb@...>
 

I checked a 10u 25V 1206 X7R cap, where the datasheet says -20% at
rated voltage, and it only measured 2.5uF at 25V.
That's an interesting measurement result, and is a cautionary tale
about using a cap at or close to its rated voltage.

When designing, I typically use a 3x derating for caps (or at least 2x
if 3x is not possible). That is, if my cap needs to stand off 5V,
then I select a cap with 16V rating. If my cap needs to stand off
15V, then I select 50V, etc. I would never use a cap rated at 16V to
stand off 15V.

I believe this derating figure originally came from a NASA
requirements document, but I don't have the document number in front
of me now.

I suppose one could use different deratings for different cap
technologies (i.e. ceramic vs. Tantalum vs. polystyrene), but using a
blanket 3x for all caps keeps my life simple.

Stuart



On Fri, 13 May 2016, Stefan Trethan stefan_trethan@... [TekScopes] wrote:

The HP bridge can do DC bias, at least up to 35V.
I checked a 10u 25V 1206 X7R cap, where the datasheet says -20% at
rated voltage, and it only measured 2.5uF at 25V. I'm not absolutely
positive I have the correct type for the datasheet but will check
again in the future when I order new ones.

The 50% voltage derating mentioned before certainly seems called for
to get any reasonable capacitance out of those high capacity ones.
Goes to show if you push a technology too far it the drawbacks aren't
always worth it. I mean what good is a cap that's -80% at nominal
voltage? I sure wouldn't be brave enough to sell that.

ST

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:19 AM, David @DWH
[TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:
X7R just specifies the operating temperature range and tolerance.
Different ceramics may be used. Usually physically smaller ceramic
capacitors have a worse voltage coefficient of capacitance.

It would be nice to have a capacitance meter which measures
capacitance at different DC bias voltages.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 23:25:15 +0200, you wrote:

This specification seems to vary wildly for X7R.
I have seen some sources suggest as much as -80% while other sources
(AVX, Vishay) seem to suggest 10-20% at most.

Why?

ST

------------------------------------
Posted by: David <@DWH>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



------------------------------------
Posted by: Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links




Re: Newbie to the group...

Tom Gardner
 

On 13/05/16 11:30, paul huguenin @shakalnokturn [TekScopes] wrote:

Hello,

With experience and schematics a lot of the repair work can be done without
having to apply power.

Would people here say that using 1:10 probes and subtracting one channel
from another (differential probing, no ground reference on the probing
scope) is an acceptable alternative to using an isolation transformer?
http://in.tek.com/dl/3AW_19134_2_MR_Letter.pdf
http://www.tek.com/dl/51W_10640_1.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ
http://info.tek.com/www-xyzs-of-oscilloscopes-primer.html (don't give any personal info)


Re: Newbie to the group...

 

Hello,

With experience and schematics a lot of the repair work can be done without
having to apply power.

Would people here say that using 1:10 probes and subtracting one channel
from another (differential probing, no ground reference on the probing
scope) is an acceptable alternative to using an isolation transformer?

Paul


Re: Tek 2465 PSU test

R. Stasel
 

Just figured out that the fan motor is completely seized. Yay, another thing to fix! :p

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2016, at 00:35, Ryan Stasel rstasel@... [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...> wrote:

Thanks!

Going by that I bit the bullet and hooked everything up. And it powered up! Except the fan. No spin.

I assume it should run all the time, or is there a temp sensor?

Lastly, I got the sticker off probably 98% with just pealing slowly. The rest I'll try some of the suggestions. :)

Ryan Stasel
IT Operations Manager, SOJC
University of Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

On May 12, 2016, at 23:42, machine guy @Mac<mailto:@Mac> [TekScopes] <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>> wrote:



You must have a load for the PSU to operate. Its a Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS) and that technology demands a load within a certain range, a wide range, but not zero. The manual escribes the minimum load required for operation. Otherwise, the hissing you hear was the switching transistors running nearly wild.
I just hooked mine up and gave it a go. But I was meticulous in the recapping job.

From: "Ryan Stasel rstasel@...<mailto:rstasel@...> [TekScopes]" <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>>
To: "TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>" <TekScopes@...<mailto:TekScopes@...>>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 1:21 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Tek 2465 PSU test

All,

First, thanks for all the suggestions for removing the sticker. I’ll try what I can and respond back soon.

First though, I thought since I just finished up the PSU (recapping, and replacing a few resistors), I wanted to test it. I put the PSU back together, screwed it into the case, reinstalled the fan but left all the connections unplugged. Hit the power button, and it didn’t blow up. But, it did make a bit of a hissing sound occasionally, and the fan did not spin.

Looking at the manual (which my grandfather, Russ, may have written at least part of), it seems I have to have the unit hooked up to test, or go out and buy/build myself some test loads. Is that the case? Anyone have tips on this? Or should I just hook things up and give it a go? Should the fan power up even when other things are disconnected, or is the whole board just not powering on because there’s no load?

Thanks much!

-Ryan Stasel

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