Date   

Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies

Harvey White
 

On Fri, 4 May 2018 02:33:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00), you wrote:

According to Lt. Sulu on Star Trek, the Russians invented everything!
Ensign Chekov.

Harvey

Michael A. Terrell

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Seiter <d.seiter@att.net>

I was trying to figure it out, and the only thing that seemed to make any sense was advertising- They wanted to ensure that any English-speaking person who happened to see such a fine scope would know that the great soviet was responsible for it (and it was all their own design, of course!)
-DaveĀ 


Re: Using network analyzers below their stated bandwidth?

Dave Wise
 

The LF plugin is the 8556A. With an 8552A IF plugin, you can get down to 50Hz RBW. The superior 8552B can do 10Hz. The 1kHz you're thinking of is the minimum center frequency on the 8553 RF plugin.

The reason the 8556A only tunes up to 300kHz is that it's a fixed upconversion (allowing trims on the mixer to null out oscillator play-through), using the IF plugin's tuning range which can't exceed its input passband.

Dave Wise
________________________________________
From: TekScopes@groups.io <TekScopes@groups.io> on behalf of Ed Breya via Groups.Io <edbreya=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:10 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Using network analyzers below their stated bandwidth?

Forgot to mention one thing - an old (1970s) example of doing something like this is in one of the HP141 modular RF/microwave spectrum analyzer systems. There's a plug-in (I forget which model - maybe 8553 or close) that goes from very low to 300 kHz or so. It upconverts the baseband to (as I recall) 50 MHz, which is one of the IFs of the system. The rest brings it back down to its 3 MHz IF for detection, logging, and display. The result is limited by noise and the stability of the LOs and the RBW of the crystal filters - about 1 kHz I think, which isn't all that great for audio.

This sort of thing is a way to get baseband up into the range of RF equipment. But again, why bother if you can figure it out directly?

And one last thing. If this application is for an audio network analyzer only, and not generally a spectrum analyzer, then no SDRs or SAs or RF stuff is needed at all - just generate test frequencies and measure the results, say with a low frequency generator and an AC voltmeter or detector. Maybe a PC sound card and software is enough. If you want something already built and ready to go, maybe an HP3561A or something similar and much newer and better would do.

Ed


Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies

ykochcal
 

Thanks for posting the pictures

I needed that.

Worked on and taken a lot of stuff apart, but I have never seen Russian
electronics.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
cmjones01
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2018 7:09 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 08:54 am, ykochcal wrote:
Now your just teasing us, what's under that cover of that plugin?????
Ask and ye shall receive. I've just broken the 1989-vintage factory seals on
the timebase plugin, because it's not working properly, and taken some
internal photos. They're on TekWiki here:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/%D0%AF4%D0%A1-91

Chris


Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Back in the late 60's I worked at HP incoming inspection. They used an exotic, tiny, tunnel diode in
a
pulse generator. I don't remember the current rating. They were lead-less and expensive. About
$110.00 each. They were tested individually and photographed on a curve tracer.and the photo stayed
in a file for the device There was a spring loaded adapter that just sandwiched the diode between 2
contacts. Occasionally one would get dropped and then a search of the floor space ensued until it
was
found.
Leonard
That is interesting to know! I have a 1108A tunnel diode mount with the 1105A pulse generator that
goes with it. Works perfectly!

Craig


Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

Sergey Kubushyn
 

On Fri, 4 May 2018, cmjones01 wrote:

You can find 1I308K (or GI308K that is non-military version) on Ebay. They
are still available NOS from former USSR.

I know tunnel diodes crop up here from time to time in fast pulse
generators and timebase triggers. I'm trying to get my Soviet Ya4S-89
pulse generator working properly, and by experimentation and deciphering
the manual in Russian, it's become clear that it's designed to drive
external pulse-shaping cables which contain a tunnel diode. The output
waveform I see looks exactly right, so now I need the tunnel diodes to go
with it.

The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high
current gives a usefully large pulse amplitude with good risetime into a
50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can find online
have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest
current I've seen so far has been 20mA.

Does anyone here think there's any chance of finding a 50mA tunnel diode
these days? Or should I bite the bullet, tweak some resistor values in
the pulse generator, and go for a 20mA type, putting up with reduced
output amplitude?

Thank you
Chris
---
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Re: Heat Sink Compound

Michael A. Terrell
 

You're forgetting that it was a solid fuel engine, and that the engine housing didn't heat evenly. It was hottest at the output, and coldest at the top of the engines. The differential would have cracked welds and the problems would have gotten worse each time a booster engine was reused. Below the rated temperature, the seals couldn't be certified to contain the exhaust gasses. There was a book covering the technical details of the designs, and their reasons. I read it years ago, I think it was called 'A Major Malfunction'.


Michael A. Terrell

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Urban <JURB6006@gmail.com>

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 03:03 pm, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

My understanding is that there were two reasons. First of all, they had to
build the engines in sections, and secondly they had different thermal
expansion rates.
I hope not to sound too stupid here but...

Why would they use materials of different thermal expansion coefficients? Even if more heat is generated in one section than the other, I find it hard to believe that was the right choice, and I assume money was practically no object.

That is was built in sections, with limited information here I assumed it had something to do with transportation. While state law could be suspended and highways closed for such a special transport, there is still a limit as to just how large of an object can be physically transported.

I think it is a damn shame they retired those without a viable replacement. They seem to be losing the last of their brain cells. Not that the shuttle did this, but now from what I understand we buy rockets from Russia to do maintenance of our satellites ???

Is that smart from a national security standpoint ? I have my doubts to say the least, even though the pundits are overblowing the differences between the two superpowers, it is not hard to become enemies in this world of pipeline wars etc.

I am not sentimental but I see it as a bad time when they retired those craft, and I think they should have kept a few of those SR-71/YF17s around. These were some significant accomplishments in their time.


Re: Using network analyzers below their stated bandwidth?

stefan_trethan
 

I've found the analog discovery most useful for low frequency work.
Not because it is especially great hardware, but it comes with
ready-made software and is relatively affordable.
Often the software that comes with this type of toy is poor and buggy,
but the network analyzer portion is well made in my opinion. It still
picks the spot frequency out of a very noisy switchmode supply with
great dynamic range so you can do control loop analysis. I wouldn't
want to use the scope part of the software for anything, it's crap.

<https://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/>;

If you want a step up from a sound card with more frequency range and
at least rudimentary input attenuators this is a good choice.

ST

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 4:21 PM, ebrucehunter via Groups.Io
<Brucekareen=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you are looking for an audio frequency network analyser, look at Bob Larkin's article: DSP-Based Vector Network Analyser for 10 Hz to 40 kHz in the May/June issue of QEX Magazine. You would have to assemble your own; however, boards and the software have been made available.

Bruce, KG6OJI



Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

kc0wox Leeper
 

Back in the late 60's I worked at HP incoming inspection. They used an exotic, tiny, tunnel diode in a pulse generator. I don't remember the current rating. They were lead-less and expensive. About $110.00 each. They were tested individually and photographed on a curve tracer.and the photo stayed in a file for the device There was a spring loaded adapter that just sandwiched the diode between 2 contacts. Occasionally one would get dropped and then a search of the floor space ensued until it was found.
Leonard


Re: Using network analyzers below their stated bandwidth?

 

If you are looking for an audio frequency network analyser, look at Bob Larkin's article: DSP-Based Vector Network Analyser for 10 Hz to 40 kHz in the May/June issue of QEX Magazine. You would have to assemble your own; however, boards and the software have been made available.

Bruce, KG6OJI


Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies

cmjones01
 

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 08:54 am, ykochcal wrote:
Now your just teasing us, what's under that cover of that plugin?????
Ask and ye shall receive. I've just broken the 1989-vintage factory seals on the timebase plugin, because it's not working properly, and taken some internal photos. They're on TekWiki here:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/%D0%AF4%D0%A1-91

Chris


Re: How old?

Mlynch001
 

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 05:13 am, Brian Cockburn wrote:


Thanks Jay,

Sadly no 'Ship Date' for my 2245A.

Brian.
I recently worked on a T922 and it actually had a date hand written inside the case in "Oct 20 1978", not sure if this was standard practice or not. My TDS460 had several date stamps on various components, including the CRT and mains transformer.


Re: Heat Sink Compound

 

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 03:03 pm, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


My understanding is that there were two reasons. First of all, they had to
build the engines in sections, and secondly they had different thermal
expansion rates.
I hope not to sound too stupid here but...

Why would they use materials of different thermal expansion coefficients ? Even if more heat is generated in one section than the other, I find it hard to believe that was the right choice, and I assume money was practically no object.

That is was built ion sections, with limited information here I assumed it had something to do with transportation. While state law could be suspended and highways closed for such a special transport, there is still a limit as to just how large of an object can be physically transported.

I think it is a damn shame they retired those without a viable replacement. They seem to be losing the last of their brain cells. Not that the shuttle did this, but now from what I understand we buy rockets from Russia to do maintenance of our satellites ???

Is that smart from a national security standpoint ? I have my doubts to say the least, even though the pundits are overblowing the differences between the two superpowers, it is not hard to become enemies in this world of pipeline wars etc.

I am not sentimental but I see it as a bad time when they retired those craft, and I think they should have kept a few of those SR-71/YF17s around. These were some significant accomplishments in their time.


Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

cmjones01
 

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 05:23 am, Craig Sawyers wrote:
Now to figure out how to mount those leadless packages safely. I'm assuming
that soldering isn't a
good idea, though perhaps I'd get away with it with fine wires and deft
technique. Not sure I want
to
try though!
The way that Tek did that was via sprung pressure contacts to both faces of
the pill. Such as in the
type 284 and S52. These were integral to a transmission line structure.
That's good to know. At the moment I'm visualising a bit of gold-finished PCB with a hole drilled the right size for the pill, edge-mounted SMA connectors for the input and output, and a spring contact fashioned from the insides of an abandoned relay or similar. Could be quite neat, and maybe the tunnel diode could be fitted either way up for the two different polarities.

Chris


Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Ah! Thank you for that. Not sure how I didn't spot it. Duly ordered - I figured it was worth the
cost to
turn a technical curiosity into a genuinely useful tool.

Now to figure out how to mount those leadless packages safely. I'm assuming that soldering isn't a
good idea, though perhaps I'd get away with it with fine wires and deft technique. Not sure I want
to
try though!
The way that Tek did that was via sprung pressure contacts to both faces of the pill. Such as in the
type 284 and S52. These were integral to a transmission line structure.

Craig


Re: How old?

Brian Cockburn
 

Thanks Jay,

Sadly no 'Ship Date' for my 2245A.

Brian.


Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

cmjones01
 

Ah! Thank you for that. Not sure how I didn't spot it. Duly ordered - I figured it was worth the cost to turn a technical curiosity into a genuinely useful tool.

Now to figure out how to mount those leadless packages safely. I'm assuming that soldering isn't a good idea, though perhaps I'd get away with it with fine wires and deft technique. Not sure I want to try though!

Chris

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 04:12 am, Craig Sawyers wrote:

1I308K is on eBay for $34 for 2 off item number 331453647843

The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high
current gives a usefully
large
pulse amplitude with good risetime into a 50R load. The trouble is, most of
the tunnel diodes I can
find
online have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The
highest current I've seen so
far has been 20mA.


Re: New acquisition: Soviet 7000-series copies

Chuck Harris
 

It truly is because English is the universal language.

Sure, in the USA, we generally speak only English, but
everywhere in the world, except for Quebec, Canada,
English is taught to all the school children as a second
language.

Back during the cold war, a USSR Mig was flown to NATO
soil by a Russian defector. The US experts were all
over it, and tore it to bits in order to study the state
of USSR technology. Everyone was feeling all warm and
fuzzy until one of the engineers noticed that inside of
every assembly all of the writing was in English. They
figured that they had been had.

It appeared to be a very elaborate deception too, as all
of the technology was from the US 1940's and 50's. One
Russian defector was about to get his butt kicked back to
the Soviet Union...

Well, everyone was blushing about their stupidity, when
someone put the question to the intelligence agencies, and
the answer was that the Russians did that on everything
they made that they might want to export... which given the
state of their economy was pretty much everything.. The
idea being that since all of the Soviet kids were already
taught English, they would need to make only one model for
domestic and export, rather than two.

It is a story that sounds like an urban legend, except that
it was told to me by my father, who was working in electronic
countermeasures for the Navy at the Pentagon, at the time,
and was directly involved.... if you are doing
countermeasures, it helps to know what your enemy is using
against you.

Including Tektronix scope clones...

-Chuck Harris

Jeff Urban wrote:

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 08:20 pm, Dave Seiter wrote:


Why does it say "Made in USSR" in english?
You get the observant award of the day. I didn't even think of that and if I had I might have dismiss it as English being a "universal" language, which is actually a farce. English speaking is not in the majority even though it is spoken by people of many tongues as a second language. My UScentroism leanings is the reason, and I freely admit that.

But that of course does not answer your quite astute question. Why indeed ? Unless they intended it to be found by US ians knowing we are the most unilingual people on Earth. (if even that lol)

Thanks for refreshing my brain here.


Re: 50mA tunnel diodes

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

1I308K is on eBay for $34 for 2 off item number 331453647843

Craig

The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high current gives a usefully
large
pulse amplitude with good risetime into a 50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can
find
online have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest current I've seen so
far has been 20mA.

Does anyone here think there's any chance of finding a 50mA tunnel diode these days? Or should I
bite the bullet, tweak some resistor values in the pulse generator, and go for a 20mA type, putting
up
with reduced output amplitude?

Thank you
Chris


Re: OT : How About A Group For "Other" ?

EJP
 

Are you sure that's a relevant difference? I don't see why. If you're not a member of the group, why should membership of groups.io give you any special privileges? and why should you care?

EJP


50mA tunnel diodes

cmjones01
 

I know tunnel diodes crop up here from time to time in fast pulse generators and timebase triggers. I'm trying to get my Soviet Ya4S-89 pulse generator working properly, and by experimentation and deciphering the manual in Russian, it's become clear that it's designed to drive external pulse-shaping cables which contain a tunnel diode. The output waveform I see looks exactly right, so now I need the tunnel diodes to go with it.

The manual specifies type 1I308K, which is a 50mA type. I guess this high current gives a usefully large pulse amplitude with good risetime into a 50R load. The trouble is, most of the tunnel diodes I can find online have currents in the range 1mA-5mA, which clearly won't do. The highest current I've seen so far has been 20mA.

Does anyone here think there's any chance of finding a 50mA tunnel diode these days? Or should I bite the bullet, tweak some resistor values in the pulse generator, and go for a 20mA type, putting up with reduced output amplitude?

Thank you
Chris

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