Date   

Re: Tek plugin: PTB-100 Rb Freq. Standard, Precision Time Base, Ball Efratom

Ed Breya
 

I've junked out three of those over the years. Of course I saved the Rb units and other goodies. I recall that each of the plug-ins was slightly different - one included a synthesizer block making 96 MHz, referenced to the Rb 5 MHz, and the others just had the 5 MHz amplifier, but were also different from each other. I never found any info on the plug-ins, or the Rb unit, but it is similar to the M-100, which has documentation floating around.

I didn't want to fool around with TM500 dependence for these, and didn't need the other apparent and unknown functions of the rather complicated PS and support boards inside. If you want to use it in a TM500 as-is, it should fire up just fine. If you yank the Rb, you can run it from +28VDC (I think 24-32 is the range) all by itself.

Ed


Re: Tek High Amplitude Pulse Generator TM500 manual needed

 

Hi Ed,

I was wondering about the hardline diameter too. The 067-1094-99 Pulse Generator (the most recent one I own, which may or may not be similar to the PG 109) has 0.25" hard line which I haven't seen before. You explained why it was needed. This puts out 25V into 50 ohms which is 1/2 Amp. That's a lot of voltage and current which is guaranteed to blow out the front end of any Tek 50 ohm plugin so be careful to use at least a 10:1 attenuator that can handle at least 12.5 Watts.

Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ed Breya via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 3:38 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek High Amplitude Pulse Generator TM500 manual needed

David, the diameter of the hardline does make a big difference. I have used 141 for most pulsers I have experimented with. I once tried the next smaller size (078? - I forget what number it's called, even though I use it all the time), figuring I could make it more compact. What a disappointment. The edges and flats all suffered greatly. It has a lot to do with the line loss, which gets worse with smaller line diameter. When the transistor goes into avalanche, its resistance is comparable to the 50 ohm line resistance, so you've got something around 70-100V on around 100 ohms, resulting in upwards of an amp to deliver from the line. Too small a line just can't handle it, so everything is smaller and slower. Of course, an even bigger line will do better yet. Tek used to offer a very large 1/2-5/8" or so by maybe 70 nSec as I recall, for pulse generator and signal delay work, way back when. I had one many years ago, but it's long gone. It was the size of a suitcase.

Ed





--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: 7603 working .... then blank

tinkera123
 

Hi Roger,

Let me see if I can lay this info out in a meaningful fashion. And please, let me know if my logic is astray ....:)

U973D .... npn
Pin no:, Transistor pin, Voltage (all measurements in-circuit)
9, b, -0.02
10, e, -0.71
11, c, -0.55
Conclusion ..... no shorts, turned off.

Diode Tester measurements, mV, with a 1.0mA test current
Forward bias b to e and b to c 789mV
Reverse bias e to b 21257mV and c to b 1906mV
Conclusion ..... Good

U973E .... npn
Pin no:, Transistor pin, Voltage (all measurements in-circuit)
12, b, -5.03
13, e, -0.71
14, c, -0.84
Conclusion ..... no shorts, turned off.

Diode Tester measurements, mV, with a 1.0mA test current
Forward bias b to e and b to c 794mV
Reverse bias e to b 2160mV and c to b 2233mV
Conclusion ..... Good

Cheers,
Ian


Re: To Recap -or- Not to Recap

tinkera123
 

Another issue in favour of not 'bulk recapping' is that this equipment has a lot of protective circuitry not found in old radios .....

Cheers,
Ian


Re: Tek High Amplitude Pulse Generator TM500 manual needed

Ed Breya
 

David, the diameter of the hardline does make a big difference. I have used 141 for most pulsers I have experimented with. I once tried the next smaller size (078? - I forget what number it's called, even though I use it all the time), figuring I could make it more compact. What a disappointment. The edges and flats all suffered greatly. It has a lot to do with the line loss, which gets worse with smaller line diameter. When the transistor goes into avalanche, its resistance is comparable to the 50 ohm line resistance, so you've got something around 70-100V on around 100 ohms, resulting in upwards of an amp to deliver from the line. Too small a line just can't handle it, so everything is smaller and slower. Of course, an even bigger line will do better yet. Tek used to offer a very large 1/2-5/8" or so by maybe 70 nSec as I recall, for pulse generator and signal delay work, way back when. I had one many years ago, but it's long gone. It was the size of a suitcase.

Ed


Re: Tek High Amplitude Pulse Generator TM500 manual needed

 

Thanks David,
I got the SMA connector right in the first sentence but forgot to fix the next to the last sentence.
Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of David DiGiacomo
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 1:47 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tek High Amplitude Pulse Generator TM500 manual needed

* Next it appears as the 067-1094-99 Pulse Generator which does away
with the expensive step attenuator in favor of a fixed 25V 50Ω output
SMA connector and a PreTrigger BNC. Thee PC Board in this is yet
another completely different board. It is pretty ugly because it has no silk screen.
This plugin weighs a lot because it has a fixed length of 0.25" hard
line in it which is the first time I have seen this size hardline
anywhere. I have no idea why they switched to this hard line from the
smaller and lighter hard line. It can't be to speed up the pulse edges
since they still use a BNC connector for output. This plugin has three
tiny pin jacks at the bottom.
Minor correction, the 067-1094-99 has SMA output:

http://www.davmar.org/images/TE/Tek067-1094-99.jpg




--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: Pictures

Sebastian Garcia
 

Hi Dennis,

I think the reason is the author of the message replied on an old thread,
from the web forum I/F.

The problem is, when doing that, the previous thread history is not
included in the message. This generates confusion, in general.

Could this default behavior be changed, please?

Thanks,
Sebastian.


Dennis Tillman W7PF wrote:

Hi Clyde,

As a courtesy to others who may want to contribute to this topic but who
may not have seen the previous posts could you include a summary of the
previous posts so we know what this cryptic message you wrote refers to.

Don't assume the other 8,500 TekScopes members know what you are referring
to.
For instance "link is bad" could have been:
* A bug report to the owner of the site
* A warning that we shouldn't go there
* A comment on the Jimmy Dean sausage you had for breakfast
* Something in some pictures you were looking at

Thanks, Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
@smitn
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 1:58 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Pictures

link is bad



--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator




Re: Pictures

 

Hi Clyde,

As a courtesy to others who may want to contribute to this topic but who may not have seen the previous posts could you include a summary of the previous posts so we know what this cryptic message you wrote refers to.

Don't assume the other 8,500 TekScopes members know what you are referring to.
For instance "link is bad" could have been:
* A bug report to the owner of the site
* A warning that we shouldn't go there
* A comment on the Jimmy Dean sausage you had for breakfast
* Something in some pictures you were looking at

Thanks, Dennis Tillman W7PF

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of @smitn
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 1:58 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Pictures

link is bad



--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: OT Manual Needed: Spectracom 8131 Frequency Standard Oscillator

 

Hi Egge Siert,
I found it on my own computer buried in a little used directory I forgot all about.
Thank you, Dennis.

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Egge Siert
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 11:28 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] OT Manual Needed: Spectracom 8131 Frequency Standard Oscillator

Hi Dennis,

When you have a time machine. ManualsPlus had it. Their Inventory List is still very usefull in the Google searches.

Greetings,

Egge Siert





--
Dennis Tillman W7PF
TekScopes Moderator


Re: Calibration Fixture Catalog after 1980

daniel wainwright
 

Dave,

Have you tried:-

http://proxy.w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_Page

?


Kind regards,

Daniel.

On 23 Feb 2018 11:13 a.m., Artekmedia <manuals@...> wrote:

David
Hmmmm . .... Takes less than a second here using either Firefox or
Chrome. Not sure what the "fast page" /"slow page" thing is about cant
tell the difference here. Chrome has been doing wonky things since an
update a few weeks ago but not affecting w140 as near as I can tell ?
-DC
manuals@...


On 2/23/2018 5:48 AM, David C. Partridge wrote:
Firefox

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Artekmedia
Sent: 23 February 2018 03:26
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Calibration Fixture Catalog after 1980

wHAT BROWSER ARE YOU USING?

On 2/22/2018 9:27 PM, David C. Partridge wrote:
Hmmm "w140.com is taking too long to respond" seems to occur every time I
try to connect to TekWiki these days ...
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert
Hay
Sent: 23 February 2018 01:41
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Calibration Fixture Catalog after 1980

Dennis,

There are two related documents here:
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/067-1201-99

Bob.




--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com


Re: Tek High Amplitude Pulse Generator TM500 manual needed

David DiGiacomo
 

* Next it appears as the 067-1094-99 Pulse Generator which does away
with the expensive step attenuator in favor of a fixed 25V 50Ω output SMA
connector and a PreTrigger BNC. Thee PC Board in this is yet another
completely different board. It is pretty ugly because it has no silk screen.
This plugin weighs a lot because it has a fixed length of 0.25" hard line in
it which is the first time I have seen this size hardline anywhere. I have
no idea why they switched to this hard line from the smaller and lighter
hard line. It can't be to speed up the pulse edges since they still use a
BNC connector for output. This plugin has three tiny pin jacks at the
bottom.
Minor correction, the 067-1094-99 has SMA output:

http://www.davmar.org/images/TE/Tek067-1094-99.jpg


Nice source for Tek Manuals

brasscat
 

I have found Archive,org has a huge selection of documents, One major category is Manuals. In that is a sub category TEKTRONIX section which has 1138 manuals / documents / catalogs. Some of those I have viewed are very good scans. A lot of 7000 series and 500 series items.

Look in Here ---> https://archive.org/details/manuals_tektronix

Enjoy
Stan


Re: Nominal 547 Trigger Jitter

Albert Otten
 

(continued) With a 30 MHz sine wave from a SG503 there was some jitter (a few ns) depending on the TRIGGER LEVEL setting, but still jitter-free triggering was possible.


Re: Nominal 547 Trigger Jitter

Albert Otten
 

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 09:31 am, Albert Otten wrote:


On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:09 pm, <thespin@...> wrote:


Hey everyone,

I've been trying to characterize the trigger jitter on my 547 and I'm not
entirely sure what to expect. I've fed a 30 MHz square wave into the
ext-trigger input of the A (B) sweep and into my 2 GHz digital scope. I then
trigger on the +Gate A (B) output and histogram the delay from trigger to
the
first rising edge of the square wave.

https://imgur.com/a/nRs2k

For reference, the histogram has 0.5 ns per horizontal division. Therefore
they both seem to have a standard deviation of about 2-4 nanoseconds.

What I see is that on one timebase, the delay distribution has a long early
tail, and the other doesn't. Why might this be? I also have no idea what to
compare this specification to. Is this jitter within specification? What
sets
this jitter? I couldn't find a timebase jitter spec in the manual. I'd
really
appreciate someone taking a similar measurement on their 547 for comparison
if
this specification isn't listed anywhere.

Best,
Evan
In my opinion that histogram standard deviation is much smaller, I guess about
1 ns.
I have no idea about a nominal value but in view of the fastest sweep speeds
(10 ns/div with X10 Mag on) and the vertical rise time I think that amount of
jitter is very well acceptable.

Albert
Hi Evan,

I did a simpler and perhaps more relevant test. Fast pulse output from PG506 to 1A1/547, terminated of course in 50R. Rep rate at maximum, 1 MHz. Time base A at 0.1 us/div and 10X magnifier. Leading edge positioned mid screen, amplitude 5 div. Rise time as expected 6 ns. No jitter at all visible in leading edge! Rock stable.

Albert

Albert.


Re: new member intro for Trey Greer

Phillip Potter
 

Welcome, Trey... looks like you have your hands full!

Glad you came out of the shadows, though.  I recently did the same and asked for help with my 7603 and plugins.  This is a great forum.  Nice to have you on board.

All the Best,

Phil

On 2/21/2018 8:10 AM, Trey Greer wrote:
Hello All,

I've been lurking in the group, on and off, for years. That's been fun,
thanks!

I have a collection of old 500 series scopes and plugins that I collected
about 15 years ago at hamfests. It's time to get 'em working. My current
project is a 541 which is just about good to go.

Here I'm cutting new fan mount rubbers from an old flip-flop:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HngnIwGhDTnOLpHi1.

Here's a snapshot of the output of a pulser plugin at 0.02 microsecs per
division: https://photos.app.goo.gl/01FkqX7GQpJ3Mzlf2

I've been going at this 541 for a while... I broke a wafer in the sweep
speed switch while replacing the big black beauty holdoff cap. I managed
to fix the switch, but that involved removing the front panel so I could
remove the CRT envelope to get at the switch.

But the worst... I washed the scope with water and dishwashing soap, but
then neglected to dry it out sufficiently before powering it back on.
Things were fine for a day or so, but eventually the CRT filament winding
in the main transformer shorted. Took me a while to debug that, but we're
back up now with a nicely bodged-in filament transfomer:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tGVcQmKLecTpCIad2

The next problem is vertical wanderings from the plugin, due to leaky caps
I imagine. I already replaced the black beauties. So now I need to rewind
the high voltage winding in my EICO 950B capacitor tester so I can properly
test the caps.

My previous project was rebuilding the fan in my 2465. Here I am turning a
new oilite bushing for the fan: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XAGWBFBKMjMb1iBo2
.

-- Trey



Re: new member intro for Trey Greer

Siggi
 

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 at 01:10 Trey Greer <greer@...> wrote:

My previous project was rebuilding the fan in my 2465. Here I am turning a
new oilite bushing for the fan:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XAGWBFBKMjMb1iBo2

Hey Trey,

nice - did you go through the whole rigamarole Matthew D'Asaro documented
here <http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=235478>, or did
you find a shortcut somewhere?

Siggi


Re: To Recap -or- Not to Recap

 

< https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/hp_agilent_equipment/info>

Though they may also move here ...

David

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@groups.io [mailto:TekScopes@groups.io] On Behalf Of brasscat
Sent: 23 February 2018 17:35
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] To Recap -or- Not to Recap

Is there a comparable forum like this for HP equipment??


Re: To Recap -or- Not to Recap

brasscat
 

Thanks for the several responses, I appreciate it.

Harvey, thanks. The scopes I have 7603s, a 7834 (needing work), 7844 (still sitting, waiting), 7904 and 7904A (really like these work horses! Running but little funnies in them), and a 7104 running. Lots of plugins sorted to running and not. Also have tm500 series frames and plugins. Got HP and GR stuff also.

Hello Richard, I would also replace any damaged or deformed capacitors. The Samsung LCD monitors and am using are older, and have had to replace electrolytic caps in them. They deform, I can see it. there are not that old either. Its also a good point, how hard is it to get to the parts. My car's engine due for a new timing belt, and it is customary to replace the water pump, because both are down deep, hard to get to.
This forum is not car repair, but the "hard to get to" concept is the same.

These items are mine, I own them and they are used by me. So, I am not repairing for some one else. I can understand that it is a tradeoff in time and expense.

Hello Dale. Agreed, I brought up the 30's vintage radios as an example of something that needs major restoration. The other night after working on the 7834, I just marveled at how well these scopes are made, just beautiful. Not just the 7834, but the whole 7000 series. No wonder quit a few of my Tek gear had NASA or JPL, or other well known name Property Tags on them. The 7104 is amazing. My workhorse has been the 7904, and recently the 7904A. I like the 7603 because of the larger screen size. Considering the original expense, we are fortunate to have and use these. I do realize they used excellent grade parts. I too have some older GR stuff that is just incredibly made, and still work.

I don't think it makes any sense at all to replace do a total recap with new parts of lesser grade. No way.

Hello Chuck, your thoughts are similar to mine on repair of this vintage Tek. What took me by surprise is that some here are recapping these scopes, this vintage. For each of use that maintain our own vintage equipment, it is a personal choice. Nonetheless, these were excellent quality parts. Clean the switches and pots. Oil the fans?? Well, yes oil them (more on this). Replace damaged and or bad parts. I believe I will continue this way on this grade of equipment.

Hello Richard, You were the first to reply, and also understanding the difference in quality for different manufacturers. I have some Drake gear also, 4 series stuff and TR7. I agree they will benefit more, although I did initially get my R4B up with one tube and one capacitor, but do plan a restoration.

So, thanks for the response. I believe this topic will benefit others also, not many of us would send these out for "repair" by someone else, just the expense alone. Actually I find it fun to work on these instruments.

Is there a comparable forum like this for HP equipment??

Sincerely, Stan


Re: Nominal 547 Trigger Jitter

Albert Otten
 

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:09 pm, <thespin@...> wrote:


Hey everyone,

I've been trying to characterize the trigger jitter on my 547 and I'm not
entirely sure what to expect. I've fed a 30 MHz square wave into the
ext-trigger input of the A (B) sweep and into my 2 GHz digital scope. I then
trigger on the +Gate A (B) output and histogram the delay from trigger to the
first rising edge of the square wave.

https://imgur.com/a/nRs2k

For reference, the histogram has 0.5 ns per horizontal division. Therefore
they both seem to have a standard deviation of about 2-4 nanoseconds.

What I see is that on one timebase, the delay distribution has a long early
tail, and the other doesn't. Why might this be? I also have no idea what to
compare this specification to. Is this jitter within specification? What sets
this jitter? I couldn't find a timebase jitter spec in the manual. I'd really
appreciate someone taking a similar measurement on their 547 for comparison if
this specification isn't listed anywhere.

Best,
Evan
In my opinion that histogram standard deviation is much smaller, I guess about 1 ns.
I have no idea about a nominal value but in view of the fastest sweep speeds (10 ns/div with X10 Mag on) and the vertical rise time I think that amount of jitter is very well acceptable.

Albert


Re: Fan mounts from an old flip-flop

stefan_trethan
 

Well, in return I walked around for a year on the packing material
from a power analyzer.
I don't know where they got that stuff, but it was the perfect
material to cut insoles from, for shoes I really liked but which had
no padding at all.

Probably got more use out of the packing than the analyzer, but hey,
there are people who buy $500 shoes so I guess It's OK since I got the
power analyzer thrown in for free and all.

That was a strange package overall, from over the pond.
It had this sheet of foam, good for a few pairs still, and the rest of
it was stuffed with what felt like TYVEK.
I've got some weird stuff over the years as packing material for ebay
purchases...

ST

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Trey Greer <greer@...> wrote:
After a bit of head-scratching, I came up with a decent source of rubber for repairing those old deteriorated fan mounts in 60 year old scopes.

One of my wife's old flip-flops did the trick nicely, with a near perfect match on rubber hardness. Made my day, so I thought I would share.

https://groups.io/g/TekScopes/album?id=28602

-- Trey