Date   

Re: Dead 7603

Jim Ford
 

I figured as much. 
Thanks, Craig.


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...> Date: 7/21/18 11:43 PM (GMT-08:00) To: TekScopes@groups.io Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Dead 7603
BTW, I did try a 7A22, a 7A26, and a 7B85 in the plug-in slots last night.  Readout was a bit
grainy, and it
was impossible to get a stable trigger on the calibration squarewave except at the highest
amplitude, a
few volts.
Since the 7B80/85 use +5V it is not surprising that they don't work properly if your 5V is screwy.

Craig


Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

Albert Otten
 

It is possible when you use the rigid extender. The signal coax cables in the extender can be disconnected and in their place external coax cables to another scope's input can be connected, all BNC and to be terminated into 50R. Even better would be the special signals pickoff calibration fixture between the -02 and the extender.

Albert

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 04:20 PM, Harvey White wrote:


On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 10:04:16 +0100, you wrote:

Thanks Adrian. What I was wondering was whether it could be externally
connected in some way to another scope in order to calibrate that second
scope. I suppose not based on the responses so far.
No, the idea is to plug it in, in place of either a vertical or
horizontal plugin, and it provides standardized signals to the
mainframe itself, allowing you to adjust two scopes to the same gain.
It also has risetime, linearity, and bandwidth signals.

That one has the highest bandwidth, and is suitable for the 7104 scope
(1 Ghz analog bandwidth).


Harvey


On July 22, 2018 9:54:03 AM "Adrian" <Adrian@...> wrote:

It will work with any 7000 series mainframe. This gives an outline and
there's a link to the manual:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/067-0587-02

Adrian


On 7/22/2018 9:06 AM, David Berlind wrote:
067-0587-02

On July 22, 2018 8:47:06 AM "Craig Sawyers"
<c.sawyers@...> wrote:

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603
also be used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig













Re: Tektronix DM5010 NiCa 2.4V battery replacement

Harvey White
 

On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 08:40:54 +0100, you wrote:

My (limited) understanding is that NiMH cells really don't like more than C/20 -
and in many cases the definition of C is, um, very optimistic. I'd restrict
trickle charging to C/40 or C/50 - but that is finger in the wind.
As I remember it, NiCd cells can be left on trickle charge
indefinitely, NiMh cells do require a lower trickle charge current.
NiMh charging is intended to be C/4, C/2, or C (depending on the
cell), but that is for a limited time with end of charge detection
(either delta V, or temperature rise) with failsafe timers, etc. Look
up the TI BQ series for examples of chargers.

So for NiMh the trickle charge is a very low rate. The actual rating
in MAH is dependent on age, manufacturer, etc. Chinese MAH, like the
motors rated in Chinese horses on their lathes and mills, tend to be a
bit smaller than we think.

I did find some Raytheon 2400 MAH NiMh cells that measured just about
2400 MAH.

Harvey





On 22/07/18 00:52, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I have a couple control panels from a machine tool where the design was for the Varta 3.6V 70mAh batteries that were common on computer motherboards. When they became NLA, the company started using NiMh batteries without a redesign. They leak in under a year, and badly damage the interface board. I just received some rechargable Li-ion batteries to try, when I repair the boards.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382458764704

12-pcs-LIR2032-Li-ion-Button-Coin-3-6V-Rechargeable-Cell-Battery-w-Tab-US-Stock/
Michael A. Terrell


-----Original Message-----
From: Harvey White <madyn@...>
Sent: Jul 21, 2018 7:02 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix DM5010 NiCa 2.4V battery replacement

On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 18:36:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00), you wrote:

You can still buy Ni-Cad replacements for cordless phones, but I always extend the leads and mount them away from anything they can damage. You may have to buy a three cell package and remove one cell, but some are easily reworked and cheap. They are sold by many places, and on Ebay.
Agreed. There are two cell packages (somewhere) as well. The main
problem with the NiCds is twofold. One is the amount of time between
use/charge and loss of calibration data. The second one, (of more
interest once you finally have the calibration equipment) is the
damage a leaking NiCd will cause. Hopefully, the Lithium primary
cells don't do that. IIRC, such cells were not included in the
design, although I do remember one in the AWG series.


Harvey



Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

Harvey White
 

On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 10:04:16 +0100, you wrote:

Thanks Adrian. What I was wondering was whether it could be externally
connected in some way to another scope in order to calibrate that second
scope. I suppose not based on the responses so far.
No, the idea is to plug it in, in place of either a vertical or
horizontal plugin, and it provides standardized signals to the
mainframe itself, allowing you to adjust two scopes to the same gain.
It also has risetime, linearity, and bandwidth signals.

That one has the highest bandwidth, and is suitable for the 7104 scope
(1 Ghz analog bandwidth).


Harvey


On July 22, 2018 9:54:03 AM "Adrian" <Adrian@...> wrote:

It will work with any 7000 series mainframe. This gives an outline and
there's a link to the manual:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/067-0587-02

Adrian


On 7/22/2018 9:06 AM, David Berlind wrote:
067-0587-02

On July 22, 2018 8:47:06 AM "Craig Sawyers"
<c.sawyers@...> wrote:

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603
also be used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig













Re: Dead 7603

Brendan
 

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 06:07 AM, Dave Hills wrote:


Since this is a linear supply, not a switcher, I would not be concerned about
a 105C part, an 85C part should be just fine. I would first try to find a
replacement with "snap-in" type leads that will fit within the existing lead
spacing. Parts from Nichicon, United Chemicon, or Vishay Sprague are a good
place to look for a replacement. Note the tolerance of the original is
-10%/+100%. You could use a modern 20% part of up to 33,000uF if it provides
a better fit. I don't think the original Sprague 68D's were exceptionally
long life parts, maybe 2000-5000hrs, so I would not worry to much about that.
Here are some "modern" Sprague parts to give you an idea as to what might fit.
https://www.vishay.com/capacitors/aluminum/

Dave

Yep, a 3300 uF cap jumpered across C821 smoothed out the voltage fairly
nicely. The 18,000 uF C821 is toast! I have a feeling removing it is
going to be a two-person job.

Next order of business: there are dozens of 18,000 uF caps with voltage
ratings between 16 V and 100 V listed at Digi-Key and Mouser. Should I
just go with Nichicon or United Chemicon and look for the longest life
one at 105 degrees C without breaking the bank? After all, I did see
one for >$100! Most seem to be $4-6 apiece. Size does not seem to be a
problem, as any modern cap is much smaller than the monster that is in
there; it's about the size of 2 D-cell batteries end to end.

I know for my next 7000 series recap I will use these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Capacitor-Adapter-Tek-Tektronix-7000-Series-Recap-6-square-1-triangle-adapter/272799971348?hash=item3f84253814%3Ag%3ARGwAAOSwwvZZVDa0%3Asc%3AUSPSFirstClass%2185178%21US%21-1&_sacat=0&_nkw=tektronix+7000+series+capacitro&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313


Re: The "other" Tektronix Mail List?

Dave Daniel
 

There are at least six groups that have to do with Tektronix test equipment:

tekscopes.groups.io

tekscopes2.groups.io

tek500.groups.io (related to Tektronix TM-500/5000 equipment)

tektronix_techs.yahoo.com

tekscoparc.yahoo.com (originally intended as a place to archive Tektronix material)

tektronix_logic_analyzers.yahoo.com

DaveD

On 7/22/2018 2:45 AM, Richard Knoppow wrote:
FWIW, there is a Tektronix list at Yahoo
called TekTronix_TECHs  This seems to be mostly about Tektronix instruments other than scopes but may be of interest. The only other list I found when searching for them some time ago was a small private list of collectors.

On 7/21/2018 11:23 PM, Raymond Cote wrote:
I wasn’t aware of another list!
You mean there other scopes besides the three number ones?


Re: Dead 7603

Dave Hills
 

Since this is a linear supply, not a switcher, I would not be concerned about a 105C part, an 85C part should be just fine. I would first try to find a replacement with "snap-in" type leads that will fit within the existing lead spacing. Parts from Nichicon, United Chemicon, or Vishay Sprague are a good place to look for a replacement. Note the tolerance of the original is -10%/+100%. You could use a modern 20% part of up to 33,000uF if it provides a better fit. I don't think the original Sprague 68D's were exceptionally long life parts, maybe 2000-5000hrs, so I would not worry to much about that. Here are some "modern" Sprague parts to give you an idea as to what might fit. https://www.vishay.com/capacitors/aluminum/

Dave


Yep, a 3300 uF cap jumpered across C821 smoothed out the voltage fairly
nicely. The 18,000 uF C821 is toast! I have a feeling removing it is
going to be a two-person job.

Next order of business: there are dozens of 18,000 uF caps with voltage
ratings between 16 V and 100 V listed at Digi-Key and Mouser. Should I
just go with Nichicon or United Chemicon and look for the longest life
one at 105 degrees C without breaking the bank? After all, I did see
one for >$100! Most seem to be $4-6 apiece. Size does not seem to be a
problem, as any modern cap is much smaller than the monster that is in
there; it's about the size of 2 D-cell batteries end to end.


Re: The "other" Tektronix Mail List?

Dale H. Cook
 

At 09:12 PM 7/21/2018, Roy Morgan wrote:

Is there a mail list oriented to the older "Classic"


Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

Adrian
 

Don't think it's a problem, it's an upgrade to the -01 version and the opening paragraph of the manual says the -02 is "...suitable for all 7000 series...." I'm guessing the -01 is called out in the 7603 procedure because the -02 didn't exist at the time!

Adrian

On 7/22/2018 10:07 AM, Albert Otten wrote:
Why do you think "for the 7603"? Version -01 is called for in the 7603 calibration procedure. Version -02 is intended for the fastest scopes in the 7000 series including 7104. I don't know whether the faster rise time check function could cause some spurious ringing in the 7603.


Re: Dead 7603

 

Jim,

In audio applications, when a huge filter cap is required, and not practical (usually due to cost), I use 2 smaller caps wired in parallel.
In your case, I would use 2 x 10,000uF 105°C caps, properly rated for the actual voltage measured across the + and - terminals.

Regards

Menahem Yachad


Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

Albert Otten
 

Why do you think "for the 7603"? Version -01 is called for in the 7603 calibration procedure. Version -02 is intended for the fastest scopes in the 7000 series including 7104. I don't know whether the faster rise time check function could cause some spurious ringing in the 7603.

Albert

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 10:07 AM, David Berlind wrote:


067-0587-02

On July 22, 2018 8:47:06 AM "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...>
wrote:

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603 also be
used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig


Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

David Berlind
 

Thanks Adrian. What I was wondering was whether it could be externally connected in some way to another scope in order to calibrate that second scope. I suppose not based on the responses so far.

On July 22, 2018 9:54:03 AM "Adrian" <Adrian@...> wrote:

It will work with any 7000 series mainframe. This gives an outline and
there's a link to the manual:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/067-0587-02

Adrian


On 7/22/2018 9:06 AM, David Berlind wrote:
067-0587-02

On July 22, 2018 8:47:06 AM "Craig Sawyers"
<c.sawyers@...> wrote:

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603
also be used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig









Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

Adrian
 

It will work with any 7000 series mainframe. This gives an outline and there's a link to the manual:

http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/067-0587-02

Adrian

On 7/22/2018 9:06 AM, David Berlind wrote:
067-0587-02

On July 22, 2018 8:47:06 AM "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...> wrote:

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603 also be used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig







Re: Tektronix DM5010 NiCa 2.4V battery replacement

Michael A. Terrell
 

From what I've read, you should never trickle charge Ni-Mh batteries. I just replaced the Ni-Mh batteries in two of a set of three cordless phones. The phones have a controlled charging system, and these battery packs were about 12 years old. They were used when I got them, and I've used them for more than 10 years, plus they were in storage for almost a year between users.

The machine tools is never shut down between uses. It is a commercial pipe bender, used by a local canopy manufacturer. The charge current was below C-1/40, yet the boards all failed in under a year.

Michael A. Terrell

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Gardner <tggzzz@...>
Sent: Jul 22, 2018 3:40 AM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix DM5010 NiCa 2.4V battery replacement

My (limited) understanding is that NiMH cells really don't like more than C/20 -
and in many cases the definition of C is, um, very optimistic. I'd restrict
trickle charging to C/40 or C/50 - but that is finger in the wind.


Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

David Berlind
 

067-0587-02

On July 22, 2018 8:47:06 AM "Craig Sawyers" <c.sawyers@...> wrote:

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603 also be used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig




Re: 7603 Calibration Plug In Question

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603 also be used in some way for
calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?
Which calibration plugin?

Craig


7603 Calibration Plug In Question

David Berlind
 

Tek scope noob question: Can the calibration plugin for the 7603 also be used in some way for calibrating other scopes too? Or just the 7603?


Re: Tektronix DM5010 NiCa 2.4V battery replacement

Tom Gardner
 

My (limited) understanding is that NiMH cells really don't like more than C/20 - and in many cases the definition of C is, um, very optimistic. I'd restrict trickle charging to C/40 or C/50 - but that is finger in the wind.

On 22/07/18 00:52, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I have a couple control panels from a machine tool where the design was for the Varta 3.6V 70mAh batteries that were common on computer motherboards. When they became NLA, the company started using NiMh batteries without a redesign. They leak in under a year, and badly damage the interface board. I just received some rechargable Li-ion batteries to try, when I repair the boards.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382458764704

12-pcs-LIR2032-Li-ion-Button-Coin-3-6V-Rechargeable-Cell-Battery-w-Tab-US-Stock/
Michael A. Terrell


-----Original Message-----
From: Harvey White <madyn@...>
Sent: Jul 21, 2018 7:02 PM
To: TekScopes@groups.io
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Tektronix DM5010 NiCa 2.4V battery replacement

On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 18:36:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00), you wrote:

You can still buy Ni-Cad replacements for cordless phones, but I always extend the leads and mount them away from anything they can damage. You may have to buy a three cell package and remove one cell, but some are easily reworked and cheap. They are sold by many places, and on Ebay.
Agreed. There are two cell packages (somewhere) as well. The main
problem with the NiCds is twofold. One is the amount of time between
use/charge and loss of calibration data. The second one, (of more
interest once you finally have the calibration equipment) is the
damage a leaking NiCd will cause. Hopefully, the Lithium primary
cells don't do that. IIRC, such cells were not included in the
design, although I do remember one in the AWG series.


Harvey


466-464 stray wire

Jim Olson <v_12eng@...>
 

This inquiry is for the more knowledgeable folks on these scopes..
I have noted that there is a small red wire strung through the main harness from the switch pre amp to the trigger - Z axis board connected from a pad by the J338 coax connector and then on bottom of board to the S338B trigger view switch.
On the 466 w/o the DM44 and the 464 with DM44 it is connected to a pad just in front of Q682 this done on both the 670-3324-00 and 670-3324-01 boards with the 155-0032 chips and the 155-0217 chip on 464 w/DM44 this is listed as a replacement chip for the 0032. (any one know what the diff is for the two chips?) On the 465 with DM44 and board 670-2234-04 with the 155-0032 chip it is connected at a pad by resistor on lower edge of board in a resistor network unmarked about 1.5" in front of J688.
I am guessing that this wire is for the trigger view? I cannot find it on the schematics anywhere.

Jim O


Re: The "other" Tektronix Mail List?

Richard Knoppow
 

FWIW, there is a Tektronix list at Yahoo
called TekTronix_TECHs This seems to be mostly about Tektronix instruments other than scopes but may be of interest. The only other list I found when searching for them some time ago was a small private list of collectors.

On 7/21/2018 11:23 PM, Raymond Cote wrote:
I wasn’t aware of another list!
You mean there other scopes besides the three number ones?
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL