Date   

Re: Tektronix Heerenveen 1965

Mendel Pearl <mypearl@...>
 

If Anyone wants it I can arrange for shipping if the seller don't want to.
I'm in the same country!

- Mendel

-----Original Message-----
From: TekScopes@... [mailto:TekScopes@...] On Behalf
Of Albert
Sent: dinsdag 14 juni 2011 22:19
To: TekScopes@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Tektronix Heerenveen 1965

Just a curiosity for collectors of old post-cards:
http://verkopen.marktplaats.nl/photopopup/456565388/1
Will be removed when sold, so if the link doesn't work then you know why.
(No affiliation...)
Albert



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern his...

tubesnthings@...
 

In a message dated 6/14/2011 1:20:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, larrys@... writes:
Mine's a 1968 L-103.
:-)
-ls-

 
Nice!
I'm second owner of a 1960 A-100 with 1973 Leslie 122RV and such...
 
Be warned - nothing is like a Hammond with Leslie - positively addictive (and I'm a guitar picker!).
Have done side-by-side comparison with 1959 B3 and digital XK3 through the same Leslie - forget about it - there aint nothing like the real thing; tonewheels with tubes and Leslie create a unique musical voice which can be imitated but never equaled.
 
Your Wurlizers, Conns and Thomas/Heathkit boatanchors are NOT tonewheel designs, but use tube based RC oscillators and "DC triggering". Ironically, though it represented the next stage in the evolution of electronic keyboards, that technology is now completely obsolete. These organs were prone to going out of tune (a tonewheel organ NEVER does). Sadly, many formerly expensive instruments have been reduced to salvage value, while the tonewheel organ remains timeless and highly desirable by those in the know.
 
At the time, the new direction in design ultimately doomed the Hammond Tonewheel tradition and production ended in 1973, some 50 years after its introduction.
 
Bernd Schroder
 
PS: the Hammond reverb was developed from a Western Electric delay line design and is still in use in its 3rd generation in guitar amplifiers everywhere - still from a company that traces back to the Hammond Organ Co - cumulatively over a century of history, and counting...


Tektronix Heerenveen 1965

Albert <aodiversen@...>
 

Just a curiosity for collectors of old post-cards:
http://verkopen.marktplaats.nl/photopopup/456565388/1
Will be removed when sold, so if the link doesn't work then you know why. (No affiliation...)
Albert


Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history

teamlarryohio
 

tubesnthings@... wrote:

You could have done everyone a favor by identifying an RT-3 as a
Hammond Organ!!
I happen to know, but why ion the world should ANY Tekkie be
conversant in Hammond model numbers.
Mine's a 1968 L-103.
:-)
-ls-


Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history

Ed Breya
 

See? That's why people ask questions about anything here - Tekscopes people know something about everything. Ed

--- In TekScopes@..., tubesnthings@... wrote:


You could have done everyone a favor by identifying an RT-3 as a Hammond
Organ!!
I happen to know, but why ion the world should ANY Tekkie be conversant in
Hammond model numbers.
Of all the OT (off-topic) sub jects I've seen here...

All the answers you seek are readily available on-line in appropriate
places.
These are truly ingenious devices whose rich history parallels the
development of civilization, as we know it.

Since Tekkies tend to like these kinds of subjects, let me briefly
introduce the remarkable contraptions Hammond Organs are:

Hammond Tonewheel Organs trace their origin to the late 19th century, to
the invention of the synchronous AC motor in Hamburg, Germany. Laurens
Hammond independently "invented" such a motor himself, some 40 years later in the
20's. He became EXTREMELY successful marketing electric clocks based on
his motor and became instrumental in the standardization and tight
regulation of the 60 Hz line frequency we still use.
As the depression ravaged the world, Hammond needed new markets and his
motor was destined for even greater things...

Prior to the advent of electronic amplification, there existed a single
copy of an ELECTRONIC instrument, which filled several railcars and consisted
of a number of large AC power generators, one per fundamental frequency.
The signal output of the "Telharmonium" was sufficient without any
amplification.

Churches had no alternatives to super-expensive pipe organs and during the
20s-30's depression that was hard to afford. Hammond combined his
synchronous motor with the Telharmonium and the Vacuum Tube. Later, Don Leslie
developed a rotating speaker intended to mimic pipe organ acoustics. Much later,
when Jimmy Smith got a hold of a Hammond B3 and a Leslie 21H we were
introduced to pure tonal magic, which had laid hidden within these instruments
for decades, unbeknownst to and not appreciated by the genius from which
gave it had come.

At the heart of the Hammond Tonewheel Organ is an electromechanical
"Tonewheel" generator, which is powered by a motor-driven lineshaft. The shaft is
coupled by way of spring dampened gears (read; mechanical smoothing
filters) which drive "Tonewheels" with various edge profiles. Mounted radially to
each of the 90-some tonewheels is a magnetic pickup (permanent magnet rod
with coil wound around it) which senses the edge of the spinning tonewheel.
Frequency is a product of rpm and edge profile of the wheel, followed by an
LC filter. Each of the 132 keys simultaneously closes 9 contacts when
depressed, allowing 9 tonewheels to be combined in millions of combinations and
proportions. It is the first practical application of additive synthesis!

Enough - hope I haven't bored anyone.

Bernd Schroder


PS: to your questions:
To move a tonewheel organ you must bolt down the tone generator chassis.
The "chimes" you observed in the tonecabinet are oil-filled - DO NOT TILT
THE CABINET of you will spill it.
You're looking at the first practical Reverb unit - yes, that too, is a
Hammond innovation.


Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history

d.seiter@...
 

I have a Wurlitzer I got for free in storage. Tried to sell it a few times, but all I got were offers of more free organs. 

 

Dave


From: "Leon Robinson"
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:15:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TekScopes] Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history

 

 


Re: Newbie shopping questions

David DiGiacomo
 

This made me chuckle. During my short engineering career at Tek
(7000-series, late 70s), the only ICs for which we used sockets were
the Tek-made ones; all the purchased ICs were "permanently" soldered
into the boards. Really happy to hear that our Tek-made ICs were more
reliable than we thought. We also had a great components engineering
group that kept the outside manufacturers in line.
This wasn't very consistent, for example the 7D01 is full of socketed
DIPs, and they sometimes fall out of the sockets. Many products have
socketed transistors, also prone to getting knocked loose. I'm pretty
sure I have some 7000 readout boards with soldered Tek ICs.


Re: Newbie shopping questions

Michael Mraz <mike.n6mz@...>
 

I don't see the point of worrying about the Tek ICs since they rarely
fail, and there are plenty of parts units around.
This made me chuckle. During my short engineering career at Tek (7000-series, late 70s), the only ICs for which we used sockets were the Tek-made ones; all the purchased ICs were "permanently" soldered into the boards. Really happy to hear that our Tek-made ICs were more reliable than we thought. We also had a great components engineering group that kept the outside manufacturers in line.


Re: Storing Scopes

stefan_trethan
 

Well at least it's 20 miles. Think about the noise those jet engines make. ;-)

They probably come close to my TDS544A, can't hear myself think when it's on.

ST



On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...> wrote:

YYup, it is for real.  Clarkson is paid £1m per year from the BBC, and an undisclosed amount from a share in the Top Gear worldwide franchise.  He lives near Banbury, Oxfordshire about 20 miles from where we live.

 

CCraig


Re: Newbie shopping questions & 7904/04A differences

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

The final result was that the 7904A had a terrific IC that replaced the
hybrids
of the straight 7904.
The 7904A uses the Hypcon ceramic hybrids that are also used in the 7104,
7A29, 7A29P, 7912HB and 067-0587-02

I have never formally measured the bandwidth of my 7904A, but I suspect that
it is well in excess of 600MHz if you use a 7A29 vertical amp.

Craig


Re: Storing Scopes

Craig Sawyers <c.sawyers@...>
 

 

Was that for real?!  I want a house with grounds large enough for a jet!  Or better yet, a DC3 or similar- I could put the scope collection on board!

Dave

YYup, it is for real.  Clarkson is paid £1m per year from the BBC, and an undisclosed amount from a share in the Top Gear worldwide franchise.  He lives near Banbury, Oxfordshire about 20 miles from where we live.

 

CCraig


Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history

Leon Robinson
 

Not boring, quite interesting, my wife still has a Thomas bought in 1974 with a
spring type reverb.

Leon Robinson K5JLR

Political Correctness is a Political Disease.


--- On Tue, 6/14/11, tubesnthings@... wrote:

From: tubesnthings@...
Subject: [TekScopes] Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history
To: TekScopes@...
Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 12:49 PM

 

 
You could have done everyone a favor by identifying an RT-3 as a Hammond Organ!!
I happen to know, but why ion the world should ANY Tekkie be conversant in Hammond model numbers.
Of all the OT (off-topic) sub jects I've seen here...
 
All the answers you seek are readily available on-line in appropriate places.
These are truly ingenious devices whose rich history parallels the development of civilization, as we know it.
 
Since Tekkies tend to like these kinds of subjects, let me briefly introduce the remarkable contraptions Hammond Organs are:
 
Hammond Tonewheel Organs trace their origin to the late 19th century, to the invention of the synchronous AC motor in Hamburg, Germany. Laurens Hammond independently "invented" such a motor himself, some 40 years later in the 20's. He became EXTREMELY successful marketing electric clocks based on his motor and became instrumental in the standardization and tight regulation of the 60 Hz line frequency we still use.
As the depression ravaged the world, Hammond needed new markets and his motor was destined for even greater things...
 
Prior to the advent of electronic amplification, there existed a single copy of an ELECTRONIC instrument, which filled several railcars and consisted of a number of large AC power generators, one per fundamental frequency. The signal output of the "Telharmonium" was sufficient without any amplification.
 
Churches had no alternatives to super-expensive pipe organs and during the 20s-30's depression that was hard to afford. Hammond combined his synchronous motor with the Telharmonium and the Vacuum Tube. Later, Don Leslie developed a rotating speaker intended to mimic pipe organ acoustics. Much later, when Jimmy Smith got a hold of a Hammond B3 and a Leslie 21H we were introduced to pure tonal magic, which had laid hidden within these instruments for decades, unbeknownst to and not appreciated by the genius from which gave it had come.
 
At the heart of the Hammond Tonewheel Organ is an electromechanical "Tonewheel" generator, which is powered by a motor-driven lineshaft. The shaft is coupled by way of spring dampened gears (read; mechanical smoothing filters) which drive "Tonewheels" with various edge profiles. Mounted radially to each of the 90-some tonewheels is a magnetic pickup (permanent magnet rod with coil wound around it) which senses the edge of the spinning tonewheel. Frequency is a product of rpm and edge profile of the wheel, followed by an LC filter. Each of the 132 keys simultaneously closes 9 contacts when depressed, allowing 9 tonewheels to be combined in millions of combinations and proportions. It is the first practical application of additive synthesis!
 
Enough - hope I haven't bored anyone.
 
Bernd Schroder
 
PS: to your questions:
To move a tonewheel organ you must bolt down the tone generator chassis.
The "chimes" you observed in the tonecabinet are oil-filled - DO NOT TILT THE CABINET of you will spill it.
You're looking at the first practical Reverb unit - yes, that too, is a Hammond innovation.


Re: Moving an RT-3 / Chimes

Chris Moore <chris2phermoore@...>
 

UmmmmmWhat? Are you kiddin me right now? An organ? For real?


From: Terry Perdue
To: TekScopes@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:38 PM
Subject: [TekScopes] Moving an RT-3 / Chimes

 
I just purchased an RT-3, and need to know whether it can be turned on
its side to get it into its new home. Anyone with experience doing this?
Could anything be damaged by doing so, or could oil run out? If it can't
be turned on its side to maneuver it through the front door and down the
hall into the music room, I'll have to cut a temporary opening in the wall.

A related question: There is an amplifier chassis of some sort on a
shelf (working from memory here) above the main amplifier inside the
organ. I'm told it has to be given additional support somehow during the
move. Does anyone know what this amp is for, and/or how to support it
during transit?

Lastly, besides the leslie, the organ comes with an HR-40 tone cabinet
and a separate chime assembly that I can't find any information on. It
looks like a xylophone inside, except that it uses rods instead of flat
bars. There are about 3-1/2 octaves of them, with pickups to send the
sound to the tone cabinet. I don't know if this is a Hammond product or
not. Does anyone know what I'm getting here?! Love the B3 sound, but
don't know a lot about them yet!

Thanks in advance.



Re: RT-3 / Chimes --> wayyy OT: Hammond Organs and modern history

tubesnthings@...
 

 
You could have done everyone a favor by identifying an RT-3 as a Hammond Organ!!
I happen to know, but why ion the world should ANY Tekkie be conversant in Hammond model numbers.
Of all the OT (off-topic) sub jects I've seen here...
 
All the answers you seek are readily available on-line in appropriate places.
These are truly ingenious devices whose rich history parallels the development of civilization, as we know it.
 
Since Tekkies tend to like these kinds of subjects, let me briefly introduce the remarkable contraptions Hammond Organs are:
 
Hammond Tonewheel Organs trace their origin to the late 19th century, to the invention of the synchronous AC motor in Hamburg, Germany. Laurens Hammond independently "invented" such a motor himself, some 40 years later in the 20's. He became EXTREMELY successful marketing electric clocks based on his motor and became instrumental in the standardization and tight regulation of the 60 Hz line frequency we still use.
As the depression ravaged the world, Hammond needed new markets and his motor was destined for even greater things...
 
Prior to the advent of electronic amplification, there existed a single copy of an ELECTRONIC instrument, which filled several railcars and consisted of a number of large AC power generators, one per fundamental frequency. The signal output of the "Telharmonium" was sufficient without any amplification.
 
Churches had no alternatives to super-expensive pipe organs and during the 20s-30's depression that was hard to afford. Hammond combined his synchronous motor with the Telharmonium and the Vacuum Tube. Later, Don Leslie developed a rotating speaker intended to mimic pipe organ acoustics. Much later, when Jimmy Smith got a hold of a Hammond B3 and a Leslie 21H we were introduced to pure tonal magic, which had laid hidden within these instruments for decades, unbeknownst to and not appreciated by the genius from which gave it had come.
 
At the heart of the Hammond Tonewheel Organ is an electromechanical "Tonewheel" generator, which is powered by a motor-driven lineshaft. The shaft is coupled by way of spring dampened gears (read; mechanical smoothing filters) which drive "Tonewheels" with various edge profiles. Mounted radially to each of the 90-some tonewheels is a magnetic pickup (permanent magnet rod with coil wound around it) which senses the edge of the spinning tonewheel. Frequency is a product of rpm and edge profile of the wheel, followed by an LC filter. Each of the 132 keys simultaneously closes 9 contacts when depressed, allowing 9 tonewheels to be combined in millions of combinations and proportions. It is the first practical application of additive synthesis!
 
Enough - hope I haven't bored anyone.
 
Bernd Schroder
 
PS: to your questions:
To move a tonewheel organ you must bolt down the tone generator chassis.
The "chimes" you observed in the tonecabinet are oil-filled - DO NOT TILT THE CABINET of you will spill it.
You're looking at the first practical Reverb unit - yes, that too, is a Hammond innovation.


Moving an RT-3 / Chimes

Terry Perdue <k8tp@...>
 

I just purchased an RT-3, and need to know whether it can be turned on its side to get it into its new home. Anyone with experience doing this? Could anything be damaged by doing so, or could oil run out? If it can't be turned on its side to maneuver it through the front door and down the hall into the music room, I'll have to cut a temporary opening in the wall.

A related question: There is an amplifier chassis of some sort on a shelf (working from memory here) above the main amplifier inside the organ. I'm told it has to be given additional support somehow during the move. Does anyone know what this amp is for, and/or how to support it during transit?

Lastly, besides the leslie, the organ comes with an HR-40 tone cabinet and a separate chime assembly that I can't find any information on. It looks like a xylophone inside, except that it uses rods instead of flat bars. There are about 3-1/2 octaves of them, with pickups to send the sound to the tone cabinet. I don't know if this is a Hammond product or not. Does anyone know what I'm getting here?! Love the B3 sound, but don't know a lot about them yet!

Thanks in advance.


Re: Newbie shopping questions & 7904/04A differences

Gary Mizener
 

Responding to Dennis' points,

Yes, now that I think about it, I remember there were substantial differences between the 7704 and 7704A including an increase in bandwidth. I've never actually had my hands on a straight 7704. Everybody I knew dealt only in the 7704A, and it is supposed to be a MAJOR improvement over the earlier. None of my friends would even consider a 7704, compared to the 7704A.

HOWEVER, not the same exact circumstances with the 7904 and 7904A. I had a friend who was an engineer for TEK at that time. He recounted the events leading to the demise of the 7904 line and the replacement with the 7904A. The '04 used hand-built hybrid amplifiers to get the bandwidth. (They are the "cans" on the mainframe edge connector board.) Tek spec'd it at 500MHz, but usually the 3 dB point was closer to 600MHz.

A different engineer, who my friend knew, was the only person at Tek who knew how to build those hybrids. He had never committed the procedure to writing, just doing it from memory each time. After working there for something like 20 years, and making a pittance of a salary, he asked for a very modest salary increase. Tek, in their infinite bean-counter wisdom, said "H--l no". So he quit and got a job with (I think) HP and tripled his salary. With no one to build the one single circuit that allowed the 7904 to work, Tek had to shut down the production line, lost several million dollars in orders, then had to design the new replacement. But they did save a $5000 a year salary increase.

The final result was that the 7904A had a terrific IC that replaced the hybrids of the straight 7904. They were more solidly a 600 MHz machine, even though they still marketed them as a 500 MHz unit. There are other changes that make the 04A a nicer machine, but, to me, they are more cosmetic than functional.

The 7904 has a FAR-FAR SUPERIOR built-in calibrator than the 7904A does. Never figured that out. An excellent multi-position volt and current probe calibrator that disappeared when the 7904A came out.

All this considered, Either machine is superb. The 7904A is simply MORE superb. Both my machines read out to 950 MHz with no problems.

Gary Mizener


Re: Newbie shopping questions

David DiGiacomo
 

I'm surprised nobody's put together a comparative list of specs and years.  The first place I looked when I got into the group was in Database.  Back in April I had done a search in completed auctions set to 200 items per page and saved the 5 pages.  A week or so ago I went through and put them into a spreadsheet and discovered that this only covered a 2 week period.  The volume is incredible, almost as bad as laptops.  So I've gleaned a little bit besides prices from the saved pages like what speed a particular model was and how many channels and made a note if it was digital or storage.  I've got 82 models listed, and I wasn't keeping the A models seperate.  Of course I don't have years for any of them, or vertical sensitivity, or weight, or power consumption.
I have just about all Tek scopes listed here:

http://www.slack.com/temodel.html

Not weight and year, but maybe it will help.

Does anyone have any personal experience with rejuvenating crts?  I've saved a web page about it, but there are probably more.
It's just a temporary fix, not really good for a scope you use every day.


Re: Newbie shopping questions

Ed Breya
 

I would also recommend the 2200 series - if your scope needs are simple, get a simple, reasonably modern analog scope. The 2200 series was the highest volume runner of all Tek scopes, so there are lots of them out there, therefore more available for less money.

For DIY maintenance, they are fairly simple and open structures, and many of the major components are interchangeable between models. If you are contemplating having repairs done by someone else, it's probably more cost effective to just buy a whole "new" scope if any large problem shows up.

For absolute longevity, the 400 series may outlast all others when properly maintained. They were built like tanks, but are more complex internally, and any you find will be about twenty years older, so likely need that re-capping that's often discussed here, and maybe other repairs, before being good for another thirty or forty years.

If you forsee the need for expandability, then the 7000 series is best, with lots available, and a variety of functions. Acquiring and fixing various mainframes and plug-ins can become a hobby of its own, so much so that you can wallow in it, which isn't appropriate if your actual need is for a simple scope.

For all of these lines there is full documentation available, and lots of knowledge within groups like this one.

Ed

--- In TekScopes@..., David DiGiacomo <daviddigiacomo@...> wrote:

The 400 series is getting really old. With your budget I'd be looking
at a 2235/2236/2335/2336.

I don't see the point of worrying about the Tek ICs since they rarely
fail, and there are plenty of parts units around. Every scope has a
Tek transformer and Tek CRT, after all. Personally, I've had the most
trouble finding mechanical parts.

If you're really worried about it, buy 2 identical scopes.


Re: Analog Design Guru Jim Williams

magnustoelle
 

Oh, no. I totally agree, that is very sad and a true loss.

I have never had the opportunity to meet him, but I have always admired his engineering spirit and the great underlying sense of humour in his publications. It gave me great reading pleasure whenever I came across his app notes - you really cannot ask for more when it comes to technical literature...

May Mr. Jim Williams rest in peace.

Magnus


Re: Analog Design Guru Jim Williams

mda231
 

Very, very sad news, indeed.

May I second Tom's suggestion that we should read the two books Jim Williams edited:

"Analog Circuit Design: Art, Science and Personalities", 1991, Butterworth-Heinemann (Elsevier).

and

"The Art and Science of Analog Circuit Design", 1998, Butterworth-Heinemann (Elsevier).

- The article of which Tom writes is "Should Ohm's Law Be Repealed?". It is chapter 13 in the former volume, pp.99-104.

I will add that we should read some of his application notes too.

One of my current projects is a sine wave oscillator based on one of Jim Williams' designs. Yesterday, I had just started to source the components, and today I heard of his passing.

I never knew Jim Williams, but his skill with electronics inspired me.

MDA.

--- In TekScopes@..., "tom jobe" <tomjobe@...> wrote:

The passing of Jim Williams is very sad to hear!
Do yourselves a favor and read two of the books he was involved in about
analog circuit design. They sell them on Amazon.com, just type in "Jim
Williams" in the search box.
I can't find my copies of those books at the moment, but in one of them he
talks about his neighbor the Doctor who had a Tektronix scope, and who
taught Jim some great lessons as a young boy.
Who replaces a guy like that?
No one!
tom jobe...





----- Original Message -----
From: "johnb1737" <jbarnes@...>
To: <TekScopes@...>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:00 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Analog Design Guru Jim Williams


Hi group,

It with much sadness that I am reporting the passing of Jim Williams, analog
design guru, at 10.15 pacific time Sunday night.

Jim shared our passion for classic Tektronix scopes. Many scope photographs
from the classic 54x scopes can be found in his writings.

I had the pleasure meeting Jim at the eFlea in Cupertino. He was a truly
oustanding person and great engineer. He will be missed.

Regards,

John Barnes